Poll

Lower upkeep on horses?

Yes
89 (57.4%)
No
66 (42.6%)

Total Members Voted: 155

Author Topic: Lower upkeep on horses  (Read 9762 times)

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Offline KaMiKaZe_JoE

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Re: Lower upkeep on horses
« Reply #90 on: August 05, 2011, 06:14:37 pm »
+1
The current setup's goal seems to be an attempt to force cav players to not use coursers or arabian cavalry shits on a regular basis. Instead, those horses, being extremely fast and awesome, are supposed to be taken out of the stables less frequently than are the rouncey's and desert horses and palfreys.

Grind on the shitty horses, get money, then spend it on good horses.

I just find the entire idea of balancing an item through the manipulation of its expense (and thus, really, the amount of time a player may actually use it) to be distasteful. It's rather much of a buzzkill to purchase a really cool item, only to be unable to use until hearty sums of gold have been earned--again.
-------------------------------------------------

I must also point out that cav isn't quite as overpowered as some might say it is. It is true that, on the right map, you may occasionally get hordes of cavalrymen kicking everyone's asses, but the form of "OP" that cav takes is merely different from the form of OP that, say, Goretooth takes when he's on a killing rampage.

The reason for this OPness is the very nature of the cRPG, and of those who play it. The game is unorganized, largely, and most teams consist of gaggle-fucks, which are themselves composed of egocentric player's whose goals range from "get kills" to "fight shit" to "stay alife". Cavalry players prey on the disorganized, the poorly equipped, the stragglers, and on those who have separated from their battle buddies. It follows that the greatest counter to cavalry are organization and awareness.

That point, however, is somewhat moot, for asking pubbers to organize themselves into even a slightly more organized gaggle-fuck formation than they would usually utilize is asking too much. Sometimes we see anti-cav organization--often after one or two rounds of hearty rape, but that is the exception rather than the norm. On a more practical level, cavalry can often be defeated by one or two players who, using the right weapons, take it upon themselves to focus on that particular task. These players will not rack up many kills, for their targets are horses, not the riders, who often carry shields or hold the down-block button constantly. These players will not get to enjoy the lulz of infantry combat, but instead will hang out on the flanks or rear of a gaggle-fuck with a pike, killing kill-hungry cavalry; or they will stand inside the safety of the gaggle-fuck and pump arrows into passing horses, in the process missing out on the chance to shoot some faces.

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Offline kongxinga

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Re: Lower upkeep on horses
« Reply #91 on: August 06, 2011, 04:42:58 pm »
0
Most usable horses, meaning horses usable without having to exploit and ghost on teamspeak while using banner stack, are one hit point wonders. 2 good hits of anything will bring you down, and one hit kills are too common. Compare to plated men who can take several hits from large 2 handed weapons, and you can know what is a real tank. Dont forget the whiffing that plate often causes. The opponent has to get timing and distance perfect, while taking into account ping, while your strength stacked plate 2hand/polearm build can just ignore blocking and swing. To defeat this build you need lots of PS and survivability, so lets add strength, and plate, maybe some iron flesh.

Uh oh, you just became what you were trying to defeat. Now you are a plate man with a large weapon, you might need to block and feint against another plate man, but apart from that, swing away. So much for duelers having skill.

And heavens forbid if another lowly class interrupts your plate "duel" like a lancer punishing your lack of awareness, or an archer shooting you. If that happens head over to ask for a nerf of the class. In no way adapt and bring a shield or pike.

You might want to forgo the cost effective plate for a horse, and enjoy the following benefits.

1. Having your horse one shotted by anything (foot archers, crossbows, throwing), then dying as people shoot you trying to get up.

2. Getting bankrupted fast.

3. Getting dehorsed, and trying to go toe to toe with pure infantry duelist builds. enjoy your whiffs while he laughs in your face and swings without blocking your swing. Oh and you have no armour since the horse cost too much  so you die in one hit. According to the 2 hand lobby you lack skill since the RNG god did not give you full weapon damage and your ping made your timing off so you got a whiff instead of a slightly stunning 4+ damage hit, while the plated dueler has skill because he pressed LMB.

Meanwhile you perform well and get 10 4+ damage hits, but one whiff and you die, while the plate man has 1/2 life left. and he spent less than you in upkeep.

Right now horses are too expensive, while plate is too inexpensive for the massive benefits.

But what did you expect? Given chadz's location this horse hating vision of the game is natural. If chadz was from turkey like Armagan we might get more sensible horses and cav, but now, enjoy your germanic fetish for plate armour and oversized 2 hand weapons.

Offline Tzar

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Re: Lower upkeep on horses
« Reply #92 on: August 06, 2011, 06:33:49 pm »
-1
Most usable horses, meaning horses usable without having to exploit and ghost on teamspeak while using banner stack, are one hit point wonders. 2 good hits of anything will bring you down, and one hit kills are too common. Compare to plated men who can take several hits from large 2 handed weapons, and you can know what is a real tank. Dont forget the whiffing that plate often causes. The opponent has to get timing and distance perfect, while taking into account ping, while your strength stacked plate 2hand/polearm build can just ignore blocking and swing. To defeat this build you need lots of PS and survivability, so lets add strength, and plate, maybe some iron flesh.

Uh oh, you just became what you were trying to defeat. Now you are a plate man with a large weapon, you might need to block and feint against another plate man, but apart from that, swing away. So much for duelers having skill.

And heavens forbid if another lowly class interrupts your plate "duel" like a lancer punishing your lack of awareness, or an archer shooting you. If that happens head over to ask for a nerf of the class. In no way adapt and bring a shield or pike.

You might want to forgo the cost effective plate for a horse, and enjoy the following benefits.

1. Having your horse one shotted by anything (foot archers, crossbows, throwing), then dying as people shoot you trying to get up.

2. Getting bankrupted fast.

3. Getting dehorsed, and trying to go toe to toe with pure infantry duelist builds. enjoy your whiffs while he laughs in your face and swings without blocking your swing. Oh and you have no armour since the horse cost too much  so you die in one hit. According to the 2 hand lobby you lack skill since the RNG god did not give you full weapon damage and your ping made your timing off so you got a whiff instead of a slightly stunning 4+ damage hit, while the plated dueler has skill because he pressed LMB.

Meanwhile you perform well and get 10 4+ damage hits, but one whiff and you die, while the plate man has 1/2 life left. and he spent less than you in upkeep.

Right now horses are too expensive, while plate is too inexpensive for the massive benefits.

But what did you expect? Given chadz's location this horse hating vision of the game is natural. If chadz was from turkey like Armagan we might get more sensible horses and cav, but now, enjoy your germanic fetish for plate armour and oversized 2 hand weapons.

You gotta work on your lobbyism skills your post is so full of fail arguments and none valid points even claiming your horse get 1 shotted by archers ect ect i dunno where to begin try stepping down from your pony and play infantry and then comeback and post.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 06:35:14 pm by Tzar »
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: Lower upkeep on horses
« Reply #93 on: August 06, 2011, 06:35:46 pm »
0
You gotta work on your lobbyism skills your post is so full of fail arguments and none valid points even claiming your horse get 1 shotted by archers ect ect i dunno where to begin you even claim plate armor is a benefit which is wrong try and step down from your pony and play infantry and then comeback and post.

I can one shot horses if they are one of the unarmoured ones and they are traveling towards me and I shoot them in the head.

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Offline Wookimonsta

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Re: Lower upkeep on horses
« Reply #94 on: August 06, 2011, 06:36:55 pm »
0
You gotta work on your lobbyism skills your post is so full of fail arguments and none valid points even claiming your horse get 1 shotted by archers ect ect i dunno where to begin try stepping down from your pony and play infantry and then comeback and post.

these days most cav spend alot of time as inf
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Offline BlueKnight

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Re: Lower upkeep on horses
« Reply #95 on: August 06, 2011, 07:42:04 pm »
0
these days most cav spend alot of time as inf
Exactly. That's why I am hybrid. Earning money as helpful pikeman and then loosing as tank.

BTW Kafein change your avatar to the last one. :-)
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Offline Leshma

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Re: Lower upkeep on horses
« Reply #96 on: August 06, 2011, 08:06:04 pm »
0
Increase the upkeep on horses, seriously.

I haven't seen this many armored horses since first upkeep patch went online.

Price is high but some obviously can pay it. Make them pay more for that luxury.

Offline Digglez

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Re: Lower upkeep on horses
« Reply #97 on: August 06, 2011, 08:13:32 pm »
0
Increase the upkeep on horses, seriously.

I haven't seen this many armored horses since first upkeep patch went online.

Price is high but some obviously can pay it. Make them pay more for that luxury.

Repair for a Plated Charger is 4,592.  Which is 19 ticks of x5...I think they're expensive enough chief

Offline Glyph

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Re: Lower upkeep on horses
« Reply #98 on: August 07, 2011, 12:48:25 am »
0
Increase the upkeep on horses, seriously.

I haven't seen this many armored horses since first upkeep patch went online.

Price is high but some obviously can pay it. Make them pay more for that luxury.
even if heavy horses are used more this patch, it doesn't mean cav is better now(people use it more because more people sell their looms now) it's just a different gameplay as cav, you try to kill other kinds of people and by that helping your team in a different way
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Offline BlueKnight

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Re: Lower upkeep on horses
« Reply #99 on: August 07, 2011, 12:59:39 am »
0
More people use heavy horses because all those light are dead after 2 shots ( rouncey etc. ) So the only way to get to the enemy is taking heavier horse. I hate when I can't reach my enemy because he is shooting my horse and even if I reach him, usually 7PS, speeding and heavy lance is not enough to kill a common archer.
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Lower upkeep on horses
« Reply #100 on: August 07, 2011, 01:14:20 am »
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Yup...even my champ courser goes down to 2 arrows far to frequently. Not even head shots :( Mind you, the champ part means that even a direct headshot won't kill it, it will lose 99% of it's health though :lol:

Upkeep should certainly be a lowered a lot. I use my courser every time I play my HA build more out of stubbornness than anything. And the fact most of the time I'm playing it there are other GK's and we can manage to get enough of a x5 to sustain it.

But this is baring in mind I'm an HA. The lightest cav build. I pity those poor sods who actually have to wear any kind of armour on a horse and attempt to earn money.

On the heavy horses front, I definitely haven't noticed more of them around. The only time I use my Mamluk is when GK decide to rape a server with all heavy horses. But even then I'll be lucky if I can use it for 3 rounds without an insane repair going through.

Either lower upkeep on horses, or buff the lower tier horses extensively. That's the solution. The lower tier horses just aren't worth the price. Hell a god damn sumpter costs 5000 gold and you can run the same speed as that horse  :lol:
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 01:17:14 am by Overdriven »

Offline kongxinga

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Re: Lower upkeep on horses
« Reply #101 on: August 07, 2011, 01:44:16 am »
0
You gotta work on your lobbyism skills your post is so full of fail arguments and none valid points even claiming your horse get 1 shotted by archers ect ect i dunno where to begin try stepping down from your pony and play infantry and then comeback and post.

I will work on my lobbyism skills, and you can work on reading comprehension.

As several people have chimed in, one hit kills are common, and 2 hit kills are pretty much the norm. for horses. The stars align when my horse survives 3 hits. Maybe you have not played cavalry recently?

The amount of plate one can stack for the cost of a cheap HA build nowadays is obscene. And if plateman stacks that much plate he is pretty much immune to your arrows, completely nullifying that build. You got to get him with speed bonus, because trying to duel him on foot will be whiff heaven. And this is the cheapest horse build. And for laughs do you want to know how many arrow hits it takes to kill a plateman? Arrow hits, not actual shots, since you will miss some. You spent all this money to be ineffective horseman, while he wades around, a medieval bulldozer pressing LMB and telling other people that they dont have the 'skill', whatever that is, but I assume it means the 'skill' to go a strength stack cost effective plate build.

Plate is now very cost effective in comparison to horses after the horse price changes. And the relative cost effectiveness should be bought more in line with earlier patches, and lowering horse upkeep is ther best way to do that.

And I play HA out of stubborness too.

« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 02:02:35 am by kongxinga »

Offline Shinobi

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Re: Lower upkeep on horses
« Reply #102 on: August 08, 2011, 12:11:49 pm »
0
Increase the upkeep on horses, seriously.

I haven't seen this many armored horses since first upkeep patch went online.

Price is high but some obviously can pay it. Make them pay more for that luxury.

/This

They used to be rare now they are plenty and in every match suitable for horses.

Also what I dont like is when even if you hit the horses dead on the riders weapon will connect with you the next split second anyway. on foot at least the guy stagger on hit but sitting on a horse nothing happens unless you get the rider. In short the horse should react too, if that happen then I could support armored horses getting buffed.   

Offline Wookimonsta

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Re: Lower upkeep on horses
« Reply #103 on: August 08, 2011, 02:07:45 pm »
0
/This

They used to be rare now they are plenty and in every match suitable for horses.

Also what I dont like is when even if you hit the horses dead on the riders weapon will connect with you the next split second anyway. on foot at least the guy stagger on hit but sitting on a horse nothing happens unless you get the rider. In short the horse should react too, if that happen then I could support armored horses getting buffed.

actually, most polearms will make a horse stop dead in its tracks and rear up if you hit it from the front.
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Lower upkeep on horses
« Reply #104 on: August 08, 2011, 02:18:22 pm »
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Also what I dont like is when even if you hit the horses dead on the riders weapon will connect with you the next split second anyway. on foot at least the guy stagger on hit but sitting on a horse nothing happens unless you get the rider. In short the horse should react too, if that happen then I could support armored horses getting buffed.

That only happens if you're using a short arse weapon. The stab on most polearms/2h will out range the lance head on every time.The horse rears up, making it almost impossible to get a decent hit in quickly. Add on the fact that a stationary cav is more often than not a dead cav pretty quickly, then I really don't see you're issue.