Author Topic: Why horseman's blocks protect horse ?  (Read 4705 times)

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Offline Torben

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Re: Why horseman's blocks protect horse ?
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2011, 12:10:00 pm »
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:lol:

to his defence,  i had a good day ^^
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Offline Camaris

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Re: Why horseman's blocks protect horse ?
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2011, 12:19:08 pm »
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I dont think its the biggest flaw of cav but its funny that just yesterday we talked on ts about that horse-protection-shield riders do have.

Offline Digglez

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Re: Why horseman's blocks protect horse ?
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2011, 12:26:51 pm »
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learn when to stab the rider or the horse its very easy.  anyone thats played more than a few weeks and figure that out.  horses are not all that difficult to counter

Allowing the riders to switch weapons after they've been dehorsed is pretty fair.  If they didnt, than the horses dead body should be able to charge/knockdown enemies as well, I'd get hella kills doing that plus it would give me time to stand and then change weapons.

Offline Lactose_the_intolerant

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Re: Why horseman's blocks protect horse ?
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2011, 12:56:08 pm »
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Yep, the forcefield sucks! But youll have to adapt to it!

Basically what tears said.
The pike is just to stop the horse, go for the lower parts of the main body.
The major mistake of the pikeman ( or any other inf) is, when cav rears and stops, is to get kill hungry and go for the rider, all attacks on an immobilized cav is an overhead (easy to anticipate). Drop your pike and slash the horse's legs with a sideswing!
Youll have the leasure to rape him on the floor!

This might seems stupid and weird but i actually prefer not to one kill the horse when i pike. Because you have to run to the place where the rider fell ( and thats if there isnt the bug)!
Stop the horse, kill it. And youll have all the time of the animation to get 2 overheads in! ( or more!)

my two cents from the ts channel under ;-)

Offline Bulzur

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Re: Why horseman's blocks protect horse ?
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2011, 01:29:07 pm »
+3
Torb is a damn fine melee user who kicks everyone's ass. Of course he cleans your clock after he is dismounted. Ramses and Cyranule are two other "cav" players that I can think of who are also more dangerous on foot then mounted.
They sure are.^^ Kerrigan isn't half bad too.


EDIT:
How Fallen_Tears_of_Revelations kills cav.
Either one shot both the horse and the cav in one go by thrusting through the horse neck and into the rider's body, OR, if the cav is stopped then quickly drop the pike and do a low left to right swing with the poleaxe sweeping towards the feet of the horse and killing it. Proceed to then do an overhead or right to left swing on the helpless rider sprawling on the ground. Type out "GET FUCKED" in chat.

Valid way. But when you're facing too many cavs, you don't really want to drop your long spear/pike.


After all comments, i  agree to several points. Cav is not that much overpowered. But the fact that there's more and more of them, and that autobalance don't take them in account, thus one team sometimes having 5 times as more as the other, makes it really more difficult.
Playing a cav is really fun. No need to elaborate that.
Playing a pikeman is... well... a bit... tense. Very satisfying when you protect well your archer, kill by yourself one or two cav. But else, it's really you, waiting for cavs mistake. In a defending attitude. Not the kind of agressive gameplay.

To all people saying "be usefull, protect an archer", "stop whining, you're doing it wrong", "stop crying", etc... I was having fun, playing with a fellow pikeman, protecting only one archer with his help.  I don't cry about cavs, i made a polearm just to deal with them. But apart from being the "best" class at the moment, the most dangerous one, imo, it's frustrating to see them benefiting from some strange glitches.
Yes, the "horseman blocked the hit going for his horse" doesn't happen very often. But when it happens, it makes you mad. Especially when "a good cav making a mistake" doesn't happen very often either. So when this good cav finally makes an error, and he manage to block your thrust going for the horse head (let's face it, if you stab it in the legs, the horse has chances to still be able to run away), then you can be very disapointed.

To most, thanks for the usefull feedback. I always bring a poleaxe/long spear on all battle maps nowadays, but it seems like... a lot of polearm character, ex-pikeman/poleaxe user, just put 5 points in riding instead of ironflesh and go cav. Since it's really more fun being on the agressive side. And you don't really upkeep that more, just drop your heavy armor and take a medium one. And you have money anyway.

Cav is really not enough "dedicated" for the many advantages it has. One way the devs thought to counter it was putting 3 agi for the riding skill, instead of 6, and it only made cav benefit more from the riding skill that didn't change. So yes, they all lost 3 IF, and gained faster horse, more maneuver, more acceleration. Damn.



All infantry, unite ! It's very easy as cavalry to play together (just go flanking the same way, after waiting 40sec for the infantry to move), whereas it's difficult for us infantry to protect the all group, that can spread like a snake heading to one direction (special dedicace to shogunate's vid. George the tank engine rules). So the solution ? All buy pikes ? Have twice as many pikemen than ennemy cav ? Or the easiest one so far, go cav, and watch with fun as you trample infantry and hear their plees for a chance against them. :mrgreen:
[14:36] <@chadz> when you login there is a message "your life as horse archer was too depressing for you. you decided to commit suicide. please create a new char"
[19:32] <@chadz> if(dave_ukr_is_in_server) then rain_chance = 98%;

Offline Felix

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Re: Why horseman's blocks protect horse ?
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2011, 01:47:54 pm »
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Hm... make cav more dedicated. I just logged in EU1. The town map had like 6-7 cav on each team. This is not normal...
Cut down their amount.

Offline KaMiKaZe_JoE

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Re: Why horseman's blocks protect horse ?
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2011, 02:01:15 pm »
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Game Balance Discussion
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Offline Bulzur

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Re: Why horseman's blocks protect horse ?
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2011, 02:01:31 pm »
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Hm... make cav more dedicated. I just logged in EU1. The town map had like 6-7 cav on each team. This is not normal...
Cut down their amount.
No need to be sarcastic.
After some studies, there's way more cav at 01:00 am. Like 12 in one team, 6 in the other. When the team has 40 people, it is a lot of cav.
[14:36] <@chadz> when you login there is a message "your life as horse archer was too depressing for you. you decided to commit suicide. please create a new char"
[19:32] <@chadz> if(dave_ukr_is_in_server) then rain_chance = 98%;

Offline Kato

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Re: Why horseman's blocks protect horse ?
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2011, 02:07:33 pm »
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I don't think there is big problem with cav. The solution is autobalance by class. Is really frustrating playing against whole GK squad sometimes. As pikeman i hate only 1 thing: weapon change when rider is on the floor and also horse archers. :) 

Offline Chagan_Arslan

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Re: Why horseman's blocks protect horse ?
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2011, 02:17:28 pm »
-1
And to all those l2p comments at Bulzur... try fight him before you open ye mouth.

-all horses can jump over your pike, taking you by surprise, and you sometimes not having the time to reach in the air. Pretty usefull to reach that archer behind the pikeman.

Offline Vibe

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Re: Why horseman's blocks protect horse ?
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2011, 02:20:27 pm »
-1
^ good point

Offline Bulzur

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Re: Why horseman's blocks protect horse ?
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2011, 02:22:59 pm »
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Chagan, can you read the 'sometimes' in your quote, or is it just too hard ?

Long spear and pike isn't instahit, like your damn lance. We actually have to prepare it in advance, and hiting flying horses is harder than one may seem. But of course, all us pikeman need cav to teach us how to thrust above us, cause they do it so better than us.

Also, imo, what you require most for a "good" pikeman is awareness. I don't think succeeding in stabing a jumping horse or not makes you good or bad. AND, even when you succeed, it's most of the time a hit in the horse's stomach, wich... DOESN T STOP IT. Wich is suppose to be the purpose of a long spear/pike, right ?

To think we finally have a GK remark, and it has to be so... lame. I'm disapointed.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 02:24:47 pm by Bulzur »
[14:36] <@chadz> when you login there is a message "your life as horse archer was too depressing for you. you decided to commit suicide. please create a new char"
[19:32] <@chadz> if(dave_ukr_is_in_server) then rain_chance = 98%;

Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: Why horseman's blocks protect horse ?
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2011, 03:13:47 pm »
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pole related bugs: such as? playing poles now, would love to know what to abooze other than spinthrust

Walk up to someone using a shield with you using an Awlpike or other similar weapon and a shield, so you are using it in one hand. Facehug the guy so close that parts of your body is inside of his shield and your models are touching and overlapping. Stab and laugh as you ignore his shield. Repeat as needed, or try with certain one handers as well.

EDIT: Yeah, the bug where if a horse is jumping and you stab it in the stomach it sometimes does not stop is crap. :/ Not cool at all.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 03:16:42 pm by Tears_of_Destiny »
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Offline MrShine

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Re: Why horseman's blocks protect horse ?
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2011, 03:45:22 pm »
+1
I don't know, I guess I've never really found cav to be 'OP'.  There are some excellent cav players who are great at being in the perfect position to hit someone and just get out of range for a counterattack, but most of the time they just prey on the unaware and rack up kills that way.

When I roll an archer, killing cav is a breeze.  Just have to keep awareness way up and be as mobile as possible.

When I play 2-H having a great sword w/ 120+ reach I definitely killed more cav than killed me... you have to be aware of positioning and try to get in front of a charging cav to thrust attack instead of letting them attack you from the side w/ a lance and back away out of your range.  Can be a bit tricky against good cav players, but I enjoyed it when a cav would try to run me down because it usually ended up netting me a kill.

1-H shield is probably the trickiest against cav... while I've demounted my fair share of riders with the magic of the right swing against good cav you're pretty helpless, but the (imo) best char class in the game has to have some weaknesses, right?

Haven't played a pole user or thrower, but those seem to be even better against cav.

So I say give cav their bag of tricks; if you have trouble against cav it's probably an issue of your own awareness and positioning as a player and less about cavalry being overpowered.
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Offline Torben

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Re: Why horseman's blocks protect horse ?
« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2011, 04:16:14 pm »
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bulzur,  i only skimmed youre last post but i wanna agree,  cause i do value the things u say a lot.
 i especially concure to the of balance of cav on many maps.  also,  cavs jumping over a defending poleman without him beeing able to react happens to me a lot aswell,  its often  frustrating (but also kinda cool) to be harrased by multiple cav  at once. 
to my defence i gotta say i love being on the inf receiving side of the lance cause its just an interesting twist for me as a cav player from time to time.
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