+30 hp for all horses, -10 speed and maneuverability

[Chaos]

Isn't backstabbing unaware infantrymen the role you're trying to force on cav with these nerfs? Therefore cavalry should be proficient at that role? Or would you rather light cavalry ride in perfectly straight lines at archers so that either their horses die to headshots or their riders do?

[El_Infante]

Any tard can see that cav is op at the moment.

If your horse dies.. So? you can still fight very well on foot since the points going into riding are not a lot, or don't have very steep requirements.

I suggested a long time ago that one should nerf the maneuverability of horses and rather buff the HP. Then players would have to actually *Think* while playing cav, and not just zoom around the map looking for a back to backstab. I'm a strong proponent that players should think tactically where to put themselves in the battle, and knowing their strengths and weaknesses. Cavalry is even more a thinking mans class, as you have both the overview of the battle and the ability to be wherever you want much quicker than other classes. Cavalry also have the ability to use teamwork by charging in groups.

A horse gives great great power, but should punish you very hard when you do a mistake. No other classes can fly around, choose their battles, and 1-shot any player caught unaware. I would rather see them getting a HP buff so they would not be shot to pieces by archers while doing a charge, but if they run into a pikeman, they should have problems..

Some cavalry players think they *Should* have a great advantage over other players just because they are on a horse. It should be a null-sum game of balance, the advantage should be nullified by the risk and vulnerabilities.

+1

But:

I don't think cav is OP. Just cav now don't have any counter. Where are the throwers? Nerfed to hell and no one knows why. Pikes are 2-slots and easy to avoid. The only thing cav must avoid is archer/xbower and it's an easy task. Just run around and in middle battle charge archers from behind. I saw long time ago a suggestion to balance teams: just put equal classes on each team with priority of banner balance. Nowadays, we can see unfair cav clans with 7 or 8 ppl on the servers round after round, day after day.

Another suggestion for balance cav is reducing speed/maneuver in a % of remaining horse HP. Here is my 2cents.

[Ujin]

From what i saw in our multi -clan battle (team 3 vs team 4) and what i've read (and saw in the videos) about the other battle , i won't agree that cav is op. It is, like i've said many times, easily countered by simply equipping infantry with spears and pikes and by making archers keep horses at bay .  Charging a prepared and organized group of enemies even in the back was most of the time suicidal for cavalry.

I believe , however, that Kesh has made it the goal of his life to see cavalry nerfed to the ground and shattered to pieces or die .

[Torp]

From what i saw in our multi -clan battle (team 3 vs team 4) and what i've read (and saw in the videos) about the other battle , i won't agree that cav is op. It is, like i've said many times, easily countered by simply equipping infantry with spears and pikes and by making archers keep horses at bay .  Charging a prepared and organized group of enemies even in the back was most of the time suicidal for cavalry.

I believe , however, that Kesh has made it the goal of his life to see cavalry nerfed to the ground and shattered to pieces or die .

+ 9001

[Gurnisson]

From what i saw in our multi -clan battle (team 3 vs team 4) and what i've read (and saw in the videos) about the other battle , i won't agree that cav is op. It is, like i've said many times, easily countered by simply equipping infantry with spears and pikes and by making archers keep horses at bay .  Charging a prepared and organized group of enemies even in the back was most of the time suicidal for cavalry.

Since when will regular crpg be about charging 'a prepared and organized group of enemies'? Cav is op in unorganized battles, which crpg is 90 % of the time. I hate to put it this way, but I guess cav will need a nerf just because of people's stupidity. As things are now, something has to be done, which is a shame, because that may hamper them in strategus.

[Ujin]

Since when will regular crpg be about charging 'a prepared and organized group of enemies'? Cav is op in unorganized battles, which crpg is 90 % of the time. I hate to put it this way, but I guess cav will need a nerf just because of people's stupidity. As things are now, something has to be done, which is a shame, because that may hamper them in strategus.

Starting this day, i will ask all my clanmates to stop using shields, cover and even zigzagging and instead group up in a tight formation and run straight into archer fire. 2 weeks later, we will all come here and whine that archers are way too op and need to get heavily nerfed,derp. Deal ?

[Gurnisson]

Starting this day, i will ask all my clanmates to stop using shields, cover and even zigzagging and instead group up in a tight formation and run straight into archer fire. 2 weeks later, we will all come here and whine that archers are way too op and need to get heavily nerfed,derp. Deal ?

Always fun getting wise answers. You do see that cav's too good in crpg as it is now, right? And it's not only the way the rape the unaware guys that's get old in the end, it's the massive amount of them. I've regularly seen teams consist of 60 % cav, and that's just plain wrong. I doubt cav will be op in strategus, clan battles or other organized battles, but their own niche of play makes them op in crpg. I believe some small adjustments are needed, but not as hard as suggested by some here.

Also, it's a difference between being stupid enough to be archer's food, and not wanting to play in an organized manner.

[Ujin]

I've been playing on my infantry (1h and 2h) characters most of the time during the last month and i can agree that there's a bit too much cav on the servers atm. If you ask me , all you have to do to fix that is increase the horses' upkeep for public servers .
The bigger issue though is the team balance that constantly insists on putting most cav in one team (same goes for archers). Fix these two problems first, see how it goes, ==maybe== by a tiny bit decrease the stats on the most popular horses, see how it goes. I think it's a better solution than "nerfing cavalry because of people's stupidity" or listening to someone like Kesh . Surgeon knife instead of a lumber axe ?

[Felix]

I've regularly seen teams consist of 60 % cav

Dont exaggerate. On EU1 each side has approximately 40-50 players. 60% - is more then half i.e. 25-30 cavalry... are you nuts man? I've never seen more then 10 (okay - 15-20 - only when Shogunates or GKs play together) riders on each team. Stop bsing.  I am rider, so i always keep in mind the amount of cav in each team.

BTW i agree with OP. More HP and armor - less maneuverability and (or) speed. But not that much (even 1 point of speed or maneuver matters)

Somehow ppl tend to forget, that there IS a perfect anticav build - HA. I find them extremely deadly and annoying. Good HA will make whole cav mass to run away in fear.

P.S. Atm - about 90 players on EU1. My team has 11 cav (HA+lancers+1h). Enemy team has 8 cav. 

[Dezilagel]

Dont exaggerate. On EU1 each side has approximately 40-50 players. 60% - is more then half i.e. 25-30 cavalry... are you nuts man? I've never seen more then 10 (okay - 15-20 - only when Shogunates or GKs play together) riders on each team. Stop bsing.  I am rider, so i always keep in mind the amount of cav in each team.

BTW i agree with OP. More HP and armor - less maneuverability and (or) speed. But not that much (even 1 point of speed or maneuver matters)

Somehow ppl tend to forget, that there IS a perfect anticav build - HA. I find them extremely deadly and annoying. Good HA will make whole cav mass to run away in fear.

P.S. Atm - about 90 players on EU1. My team has 11 cav (HA+lancers+1h). Enemy team has 8 cav. 

How many times must this be said... HA. is. cav.

[Gurnisson]

I've been playing on my infantry (1h and 2h) characters most of the time during the last month and i can agree that there's a bit too much cav on the servers atm. If you ask me , all you have to do to fix that is increase the horses' upkeep for public servers .
The bigger issue though is the team balance that constantly insists on putting most cav in one team (same goes for archers). Fix these two problems first, see how it goes, ==maybe== by a tiny bit decrease the stats on the most popular horses, see how it goes. I think it's a better solution than "nerfing cavalry because of people's stupidity" or listening to someone like Kesh . Surgeon knife instead of a lumber axe ?

I said they needed adjustments and that some of the suggestions here are way over the top. I know price increase have been talked about, and I, for one, would like that. Most cav have a balanced build involving infantry capabilities too, so them not being able to afford horses for every round would decrease the amount sufficient, I would guess.

Snip

From time to time I like to play on the less populated ones, and there's where the 60 % mark comes into play. That sort of amount is just retarded.

Recent battle:

(click to show/hide)

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My team also had a lot of cav, if you wondered.

[Lech]

Ujin, how do you want to counter cavalry with 1h spear ? It's IMPOSSIBLE with 150 reach ones against good cavalry (it allows you to block couches, nothing else) like Torben, Tommyyy and other good cav players (who just use superior reach and extremely high speed/maneuver to kill each and every player with weapon shorter than awlpike, and couch people dead who have weapon shorter than +-150 reach for 1h spear and +-170 for 2h spear).

We both know you want to keep your shiny toys so you'll defend them no matter the facts.

As a cav, you can ignore 1/3 of the playerbase (infantry) and pick your battles with virtually no downsides (except the cost, but i guess you can manage the upkeep as your beloved heavy lance is cheaper than warspear that is way less powerful), you can backstab unaware people and gang them when it suit you fancy. This thread ask for just a minor change (not even a nerf, change in behavior) that will increase the skill required to play the class. Can't you cope with more skill requirements ?

[Torp]

Ujin, how do you want to counter cavalry with 1h spear ? It's IMPOSSIBLE with 150 reach ones against good cavalry (it allows you to block couches, nothing else) like Torben, Tommyyy and other good cav players (who just use superior reach and extremely high speed/maneuver to kill each and every player with weapon shorter than awlpike, and couch people dead who have weapon shorter than +-150 reach for 1h spear and +-170 for 2h spear).

We both know you want to keep your shiny toys so you'll defend them no matter the facts.

As a cav, you can ignore 1/3 of the playerbase (infantry) and pick your battles with virtually no downsides (except the cost, but i guess you can manage the upkeep as your beloved heavy lance is cheaper than warspear that is way less powerful), you can backstab unaware people and gang them when it suit you fancy. This thread ask for just a minor change (not even a nerf, change in behavior) that will increase the skill required to play the class. Can't you cope with more skill requirements ?

1h+spear can easily counter cav, it's just a matter of choosing the right weapon.. just ask Ramses.

Ragrding the pathetic 'Can't you cope with more skill requirements', how do you think people would react if Ujin said "hey, why don't make 2-handers and polearms not able to move while swinging... it would add more skill requirement since you would have to position yourself! Or cant you cope with more skill requirement?"

[Ujin]

Simple fact - shield gives your spear/lance extra lenght (infantry).  Another fact- pike and long spear are cheaper than a heavy lance.

As for countering and picking fights etc i suggest you watch the livestream videos from the multi-clan tournament where shields+spears/awlpikes were used. Or just read the posts above by me or Gurnisson.

If i use a heavy lance on foot vs cav, i usually kill/dehorse a couple before getting killed. I'd say it's 50/50 vs a good lancer (coursers are easier).

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

I'd like to make the point that eu1 only seems like theres 50% cav when GK are on 

You cannot claim that is the norm, that's like saying there is too many shielders in crpg, just because you once played on a server with Wolves.