Battle Map - Farm By Ruins

[Butan]

I prefer a balanced "quantity/quality" numbers of exploitable places per map, than a balanced flat as my butt map.

[karasu]

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[Bronto]

I think that what is happening in this thread is good. We all needed somewhere to give suggestions, Teeth, you needed to hear what people thought about the maps since you're editing them and this has turned in to the place to do it. Thank you all for posting, you're doing a great job.

[Corsair831]

IMO we should remove teeth's position as mapguy and ban him from crpg permanently

as well as charge him €50 for being naughty and smelling homeless

[PsychoTwins]

Remove this spot, yes or no? One team gets here first, they can parkour up here and have an excellent position overlooking the popular fighting spots. It got used each round by some ranged last time I played the map.

I wanna say I want that spot removed, but its not THAT bad, and I usually can sneak up there without the ranged guy seeing me. Its also really open so the ranged up there usually get shot down right away.

[dynamike]

Teeth, I have tried to explain my opinion before and I am interested if the community feels the same way.

To make it simple:

Overall balance in interesting and diversified maps with advantages for different classes

over

Individual balance inside each and every map, which makes them dull and boring


I appreciate the job you and Fips are doing, but removing every possible aspect of a map that favors one class over another is the wrong way of achieving balance. If anything, the old rotation with more imbalances might have been frustrating for some classes in some maps, but more (and more overall) fun in others.

[Legs]

I'd really love to give feedback on maps, but for some reason whenever I up/downvote it gives the wrong name.

So... everything sux kill urselv seen editorz

[Kajia]

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It's this map. I removed that staircase on the left and the ladder that is in the square ruined area on the right.

ಠ_ಠ

tell me, what sense does a map make without spots that are of strategic importance? why not make all maps flat and remove every scene prop? that would be something for a change. it's so fair, that everyone will be happy. wait, did someone say cav-map?
hey, aren't you playing cav too?

Teeth, I have tried to explain my opinion before and I am interested if the community feels the same way.

To make it simple:

Overall balance in interesting and diversified maps with advantages for different classes

over

Individual balance inside each and every map, which makes them dull and boring


I appreciate the job you and Fips are doing, but removing every possible aspect of a map that favors one class over another is the wrong way of achieving balance. If anything, the old rotation with more imbalances might have been frustrating for some classes in some maps, but more (and more overall) fun in others.

this.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

ಠ_ಠ

tell me, what sense does a map make without spots that are of strategic importance? why not make all maps flat and remove every scene prop? that would be something for a change. it's so fair, that everyone will be happy. wait, did someone say cav-map?
hey, aren't you playing cav too?

this.

Teeth is one of EUs most dedicated longspearmy old friends...

[Teeth]

ಠ_ಠ

tell me, what sense does a map make without spots that are of strategic importance? why not make all maps flat and remove every scene prop? that would be something for a change. it's so fair, that everyone will be happy. wait, did someone say cav-map?
hey, aren't you playing cav too?

this.

This spot is not of strategic importance as one team spawns much closer than the other, which means that the clashing point of both teams is about 30 meters down the road. It gives one team a good vantage point to shoot from though without giving any equivalent to the other team. Usually the round gets decided along that lengthy ruin prop down the road and then if the one team wins they get to clear out this tower. This spot only becomes of strategic importance when the other team won the main fight and they get to clear out this ruin tower if ranged are up there, which proves difficult so rounds get delayed. Two ranged up there makes it difficult for a low volume of any type of classes to clear it out.

An accusations of cav bias is just unnecessary and hostile.

[Butan]

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I dont think Teeth is biased toward his role in cRPG battles when he makes map modification. He really wants to improve this for everyone and we may discuss with him about what we think about what he does : its nice to be able to talk with someone who has a decision power 

I agree with your last post but my take on this "particular" map is that this spot was unbalanced but not powerful enough to dictate the round, except if people heavily exploited it.
For me it was just a possible position where people went or not.

This is the source of the problem I think. When does a tactically "suitable position" becomes too powerful that it needs to be toned down or removed?

(click to show/hide)

My take on this is that, except the most silly unbalanced advantageous positions, everything can become overpowerful when you use teamplay and tactics. There will always be situations where a position will give victory in a apparently undeserved manner to the raging looneys of the losing team.

Teams > Zombies

(you can also refer to the wise say "you refuse to use teamplay and tactics" signature that I failed to find in the forum)

Also, the "fun" factor heavily outweight the "unbalanced" factor in most cases. Positions on the maps are like chains of events that can lead to a different result in each battles. If you decrease the number of position events in maps, you send people to kill each other in a narrower tunnel, where fewer scenarios leads to fewer results and increased boredom.

And boredom in a game is never good 


A more detailed take on "fun" in cRPG :

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I think there is a dangerous trend that is growing in cRPG about the "fun" factor. People want to have fun themselves, but the others are just there to die at their hands, they dont deserve to have their fun too. HA/HX hate is one of the consequence of this trend.

Recently I went with some of my clanmates on EU_1 with heavy horses. And I was asked by Heibai "do you like sacrificing other people's fun?"
Whenever you do something in the game that increases/decreases the chance of victory of your team (involuntarily or not), you get shit comments about how you're killing the game or what not.
Then we remove everything that made the game have those interesting scenarios (interesting spots on the map are a part of that) and they will all cry to have them back.

[dynamike]

Also, the "fun" factor heavily outweight the "unbalanced" factor in most cases. Positions on the maps are like chains of events that can lead to a different result in each battles. If you decrease the number of position events in maps, you send people to kill each other in a narrower tunnel, where fewer scenarios leads to fewer results and increased boredom.

And boredom in a game is never good 

Change your name to Butane and light a match cuz' you are on fire, my friend. I agree completely.

[Ronin]

Although I think I disagree a bit about teeth's approach to maps, I also like the way that someone is putting effort into it and designing maps based on some form of principles. That kind of approach is what makes a game better.

I also fully agree with butan and dynamike, there is no other thing left for me to say about my opinions as they pretty summed it.

[pingpong]

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My problem with this map is the location of tower, the team who starts from the green line spawn is ALWAYS first to climb up the tower & camp it with ranged and win, while the other team coming from red spawn loses most of the time, so i suggest you delete that stupid looking house on a hill with no stairs to it marked with red X and move the tower there and return the stairs marked in blue to both sides of that hill. MAP FIXED.

[Teeth]

Interesting, when I played it last night the other team reached the stairs first everytime, think you gotta be careful with the term always. Maybe they just had a few guys with more athlethics running a better path. Really, you want it up there? So you have to first climb the stairs, then climb a tower whose top is a 30 meters above the playing field. Doing that will remove the tower's central position on the map and most likely remove any player interest towards it. Such a height actually makes it hard for ranged to hit targets on ground level. Alternatively I could just check the spawn distances to the staircase and move spawns accordingly, if there is in fact a notable difference.

Oh and for those claiming that I am biased towards a certain class, I readded ^ that map with a central tower, as I do not mind camping spots as long as they are not one sided and/or cause deadlock situations. The OP's map camping spot was both one sided and created deadlock situations.