RIP Dedicated throwing

[Team_Jacob]

Love the whole "Lame nature of melee 'spam' (proof that you suck, though seeing your score in the servers everytime already proved that long ago)" it's somewhat funny seeing as that is the ENTIRE MECHANIC THAT MAKES THIS GAME UNIQUE FROM BEING A BASIC FPS GAME.  And mounts.  Hence "MOUNT AND BLADE: WARBAND" not my old friend and arrow: throw spam

Cause god forbid a level 15-20 gets a bad score as a thrower. I have no melee wpf and no melee weapon. I have fun with throwing, but getting 1:1 isn't easy. I have gone 3-4:1 on ridiculously lucky streaks where I get a lot of headshots and manage to sneak a few melee hits in with my low PS.

I've done the whole high melee wpf, high PS, high armor crap. You get a ridiculous K/D and it's boring as hell. I've done archery and gotten good K/Ds, but it's not as fun as throwing. I've done arbalest build and gotten really good K/Ds, but it makes me feel dirty. I have done polearm cavalry and done really well. Throwing is the only spec where you can't get a really good K/D.

At this point, I am done arguing with you. I can go to the local elementary school and find someone with more intelligence that can provide some actual support to their arguments. Have fun wallowing in your stupidity. I hope the developers aren't completely oblivious and moronic like you are. Fasader seems to be right about at your level, but Paul seems to be intelligent and hopefully he can help guide the balance team to the correct solution. The developers have shown some good ideas like the slot system, which really helped balance out classes and force people to make choices. They just have to fix some things that suffered collateral damage from that fix.

I'm sorry Jacob, I really dont feel like having to make my build around your playstyle. dont want to invest 4 points into shield, i need them elsewhere!
that kind of logic annoys me! but gorath already pointed that out

I'm sorry Lactose_theintolerant, I really dont feel like having to make my build around your playstyle. dont want to invest 5+ points into power strike and 100+ points into melee wpf, i need them elsewhere!
that kind of logic annoys me! but Jacob already pointed that out

[Gorath]

The developers have shown some good ideas like the slot system, which really helped balance out classes and force people to make choices. They just have to fix some things that suffered collateral damage from that fix. 

Fixed.
Throwing should NOT get special treatment just so dumbasses like you can herp derp with illogical amounts of throwing weapons.  If balance by logic applies to one playstyle, it should apply to them all.  Period.

I'm done with you as well.  You're a plebbing child who's idea of discussion revolves around plugging your ears and screaming "NOU!" in the form of shitting all over a thread.

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

lol, seriously?

trollin gorath most have tired you out 

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

Tbh I'm with Jacob here, people always adapt to play what they think will prevent them from dying. Since throwing disappeared we've had a lot less shields and a lot more 2h running round thinking they have magically improved in skill People were once adapted to have some kind of defence against what was a short ranged, but powerful piercing attack (so a counter to 2h). The longbow and arbalest are the only two weapons that can hold a candle to that role now, so we're seeing just more 2h dropping points in shield to be more effective up close, because there is less need. That is adaption and its key to class building, so if throwing is buffed (and it will be by the sounds of it), those 2h may have to sacrifice some points to shield. If they dont well they will whine as a lot of players do cause a class exists that doesnt allow them 7:1 kd's. Every class has several counters, that applies to everyone and throwing was a valuable counter to 2h, before it got nerfed to the ground...

[Dezilagel]

(click to show/hide)

Tbh I'm with Jacob here, people always adapt to play what they think will prevent them from dying. Since throwing disappeared we've had a lot less shields and a lot more 2h running round thinking they have magically improved in skill People were once adapted to have some kind of defence against what was a short ranged, but powerful piercing attack (so a counter to 2h). The longbow and arbalest are the only two weapons that can hold a candle to that role now, so we're seeing just more 2h dropping points in shield to be more effective up close, because there is less need. That is adaption and its key to class building, so if throwing is buffed (and it will be by the sounds of it), those 2h may have to sacrifice some points to shield. If they dont well they will whine as a lot of players do cause a class exists that doesnt allow them 7:1 kd's. Every class has several counters, that applies to everyone and throwing was a valuable counter to 2h, before it got nerfed to the ground...

Stop talking about "counters" ffs!

I atleast don't want this game to be "rock-paper-scissors" where if you're up against the "wrong" class ur autofuked. That was the case of throwing vs 2h prepatch (fukin' lances!), and I don't want that to return.

Of course, some classes are better against others, but I atleast want everyone to have a chance regardless of class.

That's why I'm in despise of such things as roofcamping archers, turtle shielders, HA etc., because in certain situations, other classes simply stand no chance.

I know people will always find ways to get advantages, but just look at native which is a fucking mess atm because of the my old friendchery and throwing.

[Kafein]

Stop talking about "counters" ffs!

I atleast don't want this game to be "rock-paper-scissors" where if you're up against the "wrong" class ur autofuked. That was the case of throwing vs 2h prepatch (fukin' lances!), and I don't want that to return.

Of course, some classes are better against others, but I atleast want everyone to have a chance regardless of class.

That's why I'm in despise of such things as roofcamping archers, turtle shielders, HA etc., because in certain situations, other classes simply stand no chance.

I know people will always find ways to get advantages, but just look at native which is a fucking mess atm because of the friendly archery and throwing.

This.

The "counter" mechanism is fucked up. If that was really important, then HA would have a real counter, as they basically are the counter to everything already. Melee and melee cav can just wait until they die, ranged troops have 50% chances against the same number of HAs. So yeah what's the point in creating counters for classes that already have. 2h already have archers, crossbows and don't forget the good dedicated throwers too. HA and roofcamping archers have no counter. Fix what is broken first.

[Team_Jacob]

Everything has a counter and half the time the counter has nothing to do with what role your character is playing. Melee can counter HA extremely effectively, especially on NA servers. All they have to do is force the HA to engage at a range that the melee can strike back. This is easily done by forcing the HA through chokepoints or by going into a building, hiding behind something, etc. Force him to engage you on your terms.

I will say it again. The reason why people bitch and moan about ranged is because they are so stupid or stubborn that they don't want to change the way they play to counter archers. If you want to see how to do it, join the Ninja clan for a while and they can probably help you out. Melee want to get rid of range so they don't have to change their HURRRR DURRRRR CHARGE FORWARD FOREVER mindset instead of actually using tactics to counter range. Ranged is so easily countered by LoS and shields that it's borderline silly.

[22nd_King_Plazek]

Throwing cavalry was once a great counter to range, you know before you had only 3 javelins per stack. Now you can't even kill their horse without running out of ammo.

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

Let me be clear what I mean by counter...

A counter is not necessarily an instant win for the counter, it is merely in the sense that one class has (and should) have an advantage over another purely because both have made sacrifices for such a balance. I imagine this strikes a chord to gamers of older ages as they might remember old rts games such as Age of Empires, just because the unit = good against does not mean an automatic win. Now if we want a game without counters as Kafein and Dezilagel suggest, then you are gonna have to make every player the same stats and equipment, because even a slight change in equipment / stats alters the balance between two individuals. In a mod that is based purely on adaptable builds where you are fully able to customise stats and equipment it is inevitable that counters exist and that is the way it should be.

If you don't like it go play halo 1 but only with assault rifles. and no powerups. or vehicles. and make sure you play a symmetrical map with spawns perfectly placed on either end. Only then will you have game without advantages given to the player. I rest my case

[Dezilagel]

Of course, some classes are better against others, but I atleast want everyone to have a chance regardless of class.

That's why I'm in despise of such things as roofcamping archers, turtle shielders, HA etc., because in certain situations, other classes simply stand no chance.

Quoting myself has become my new hobby on these forums...

[22nd_King_Plazek]

When I am in the "certain situation" that I turn to present my back at the enemy archers and stand still while holding a big sign saying shoot me, I stand no chance.

Buff turning your back into the enemy.

(click to show/hide)

It all depends on the situation, not ALL situations should be survivable for all classes.

[Dezilagel]

When I am in the "certain situation" that I turn to present my back at the enemy archers and stand still while holding a big sign saying shoot me, I stand no chance.

Buff turning your back into the enemy.

(click to show/hide)

It all depends on the situation, not ALL situations should be survivable for all classes.

"facepalm"

In that situation you do have an option, you can drop the sign and start dodging towards them...

[Seawied]

why are we talking about archers? This isn't about archers. This isn't about HA. Its about throwing being nerfed to hell and then some. I probably should just lock the thread at this point.

[Spawny]

why are we talking about archers? This isn't about archers. This isn't about HA. Its about throwing being nerfed to hell and then some. I probably should just lock the thread at this point.

Good idea.

I think you allready got your point across and everyone (but gorath) agreed throwing was nerfed too hard and should be buffed (devs said it will be buffed).

[22nd_King_Plazek]

"facepalm"

In that situation you do have an option, you can drop the sign and start dodging towards them...

Not if you are a 2h user that does not carry a shield.
In this situation you should die.


Simply stating that in ALL situations ALL classes should stand a reasonable chance of victory is plain wrong.