Author Topic: Reasonable Side Sword Nerf  (Read 10344 times)

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Offline Gorath

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Re: Reasonable Side Sword Nerf
« Reply #60 on: March 03, 2011, 05:34:46 am »
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And I should be nice or polite to anyone.... why exactly?

Offline Diomedes

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Re: Reasonable Side Sword Nerf
« Reply #61 on: March 03, 2011, 06:24:57 am »
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I've been using the side sword for a few days now and agree with ManOfWar's original post.  I'm not an above-average player when it comes to killing people but I've ended up 10+/3 on a couple maps recently with just the side sword, light armour, and a shield at a moderate level.  Although my clan and experience with 1handers is certainly a factor here, I normally average only 2:1 with other top tier 1h weapons.  Though I'll surely [ab]use it till it's tweaked, the side sword should be adjusted a little bit before 1handers select it to the point of fixation.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 06:32:27 am by Diomedes »

Offline ManOfWar

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Re: Reasonable Side Sword Nerf
« Reply #62 on: March 03, 2011, 06:50:35 am »
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I miss my damned long espada, :(
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Offline Diomedes

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Re: Reasonable Side Sword Nerf
« Reply #63 on: March 03, 2011, 07:00:20 am »
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^I loved mine back when there were fewer masterwork 1-handers floating about.  Now I use a little warhammer to get by (though I think its starting to cause some ire amongst the siege crowd).



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Offline Spawny

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Re: Reasonable Side Sword Nerf
« Reply #64 on: March 03, 2011, 10:04:10 am »
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I tried my trusty long espada right after the patch, but it felt clumsy and weird. It got stuck in the air/random objects far too often (you know, when I get stuck in a wall and the guy with the flameberge just swings through it) and the thrust seemed to bounce a lot more.

That's when I decided to go with the sidesword, as it's a decent thrusting weapon and it's shorter, so more manageable in tight spaces.

Been using the sidesword since a week after the last major patch release.
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Offline Christo

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Re: Reasonable Side Sword Nerf
« Reply #65 on: March 09, 2011, 03:42:06 pm »
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i play this mod since we where only 50 ppl in 1 server.

the main problem is that every couple of months we place new sword, that made the old one completely useless instead give to any  "final sword"    a peculiar power and weakness.

when i started the top was  the elite scimitar,  than the eslavona, than now the sidesword. 


sidesword need a rebalance, cant be the faster  with same dmg     of the others.     for the price of   5cm of reach

I totally agree with Vicious on this one.
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Offline Elmetiacos

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Re: Reasonable Side Sword Nerf
« Reply #66 on: March 10, 2011, 09:00:07 pm »
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Sideswords also seem to get "phantom reach" more than any other sword... they don't look as if they hit you but they did.
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Offline Native_ATS

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Re: Reasonable Side Sword Nerf
« Reply #67 on: March 15, 2011, 09:54:33 am »
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Well the side sword is a wee bit fast,

Due to this inarguable fact, what shall the speed be decreased too? 99? 100?

I am unsure what a proper speed would be.

Any suggestions?

Edit- I am a one hander and I use the side sword, I do not use a Masterwork mine is Tempered, I made this thread because I have heard complaints and I just want to make sure it does not get nerfed to hell
i like people like this, they feel the item they use is a bit much and not wanting it done worng, offer ways to fix it, i too think it might be too fast, but maybe lower the speed to 98

Offline Spawny

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Re: Reasonable Side Sword Nerf
« Reply #68 on: March 15, 2011, 11:02:43 am »
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I've been swapping around my MW sidesword and a warhammer (3 speed difference) and I don't really notice a difference in swingspeed. Maybe it's more obvious for the one on the receiving end though.

I dueled vargas a few times on the duel server and even with a shield he hits so fast I can barely see his sidesword. But then again, Sunas did the exact same thing with a longsword.

Some people don't seem to have any trouble whatsoever with blocking my sidesword attacks, others I can kill by just changing direction of my slashes and hit them every time. I'm not an agility build though, I have 12 agility.

I can see how the sidesword gets rediculously fast when combined with an agility build, but it will need a lot more hits to kill anyone.
Annoying when coupled with a shield, but for a competent manual blocker not any harder to beat than an agility built longsword user.

All in all, I think -2 speed is justified.

Personally I think the cut damage should get a -1 too.
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Offline bredeus

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Re: Reasonable Side Sword Nerf
« Reply #69 on: March 21, 2011, 10:32:51 am »
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with your "Agi 12 build" and shield you are hell fast with side sword Spawny.

Offline Blondin

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Re: Reasonable Side Sword Nerf
« Reply #70 on: March 21, 2011, 01:15:32 pm »
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The main problem with sidesword is that almost every 1hander use it... It makes a realy good style with the huscarl... "Sarcasm off".

I guess for two reasons :
- it's an op weapon.
- it's the top 1handed weapon

If ppl could have more choice i guess we will see more diversity.
Also if it's nerfed, you will see a lot less ppl using it

Offline Vicious666

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Re: Reasonable Side Sword Nerf
« Reply #71 on: March 21, 2011, 01:24:54 pm »
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I've been swapping around my MW sidesword and a warhammer (3 speed difference) and I don't really notice a difference in swingspeed. Maybe it's more obvious for the one on the receiving end though.

I dueled vargas a few times on the duel server and even with a shield he hits so fast I can barely see his sidesword. But then again, Sunas did the exact same thing with a longsword.

Some people don't seem to have any trouble whatsoever with blocking my sidesword attacks, others I can kill by just changing direction of my slashes and hit them every time. I'm not an agility build though, I have 12 agility.

I can see how the sidesword gets rediculously fast when combined with an agility build, but it will need a lot more hits to kill anyone.
Annoying when coupled with a shield, but for a competent manual blocker not any harder to beat than an agility built longsword user.

All in all, I think -2 speed is justified.

Personally I think the cut damage should get a -1 too.

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Offline Spawny

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Re: Reasonable Side Sword Nerf
« Reply #72 on: March 21, 2011, 04:08:02 pm »
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Please elaborate.
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The problem is even if you are number 1 in NA you are still only number 467 in EU or the worst in AUS(number 17)

Offline kinngrimm

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Re: Reasonable Side Sword Nerf
« Reply #73 on: March 21, 2011, 05:40:22 pm »
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You can't take it literally obviously. Side sword isn't best but above average (nearly best) at everything. In terms of balance, I guess it should be average, or just provide alternatives. As I said, I don't really care if it gets nerfed or not, just that it would be nice to have more top tier swords to choose from in 1h lines (by either nerfing side sword or introduce new swords/buff the current ones).

instead of nerfing, making one bad, shouldn't then be another 1-3 swords get better?

There is nothing wrong beeing jack of all trades, as long it isn't the best in all the things that are compared. It is a contribute to playing style, there are the spammatars which is fine if they want to play like that, there are those with warhammer, which do terrible damage often twice after knockdown, and other specialities. The sitesword has no special ability but its versatility through speed.
About the speed, there are so many 2h/polearm spammers out there, some with weapons havy enough to stun my shield long enough that i rarely can counter attack.
I was asked often and many speced shielders and wondered, why dont tehy attack, they cant, they have to count when there shield isn't stuned, if they wait too long the shield is destroyed and they are dead meat. Only thing to counter 2h Spam in my eyes is to get myself high agi, 27 at least and a sword with high speed too.
So if you reduce it, i perhaps have to go with 6 str and 30 agi, to do anything and i will take the weapons which still works with that requirements, perhaps i'll pecome a spammitar myself then and the next thing you know is that people whant a nerf on it.
The weapon is surly only as good as the build and the player behind it, nerf it and if myself and otheres with sitesword still get their kills there will be voices to nerf it again, it wasnt enough.

@Vicious666
i would choose speed anytime over other abilities, so take away some cut damage, but let me have my speed, otherwise you have to nerf a lot of 2h/polearm weapons speed too. If you want to have different playstyles you need weapons who have stregth in different areas, sitesword special area is the speed.

@Spawny
agreed, but i wouldnt touch the speed, perhaps take away 1-2 points cut damage.

@Blondin again make other one handers better in their special way, you want to increase different playstyles, not decrease them through nerfing one thing.

If i battle havy armored guys i need 7-10+ hits to bring em down, as i go for low armor because of weigth i get 1hited. Taking away too much damage brings me to my shield which cant sustain forever, even with my invested 9 skillpoints for long duels, so i can battle even the best players with shieldbreakers long enough to perhaps at a good day i can provoke them to make mistakes. There are several players out there who havent got an agi based built but can win against me 4 out of 5 times or more, me as i have a agi based build and a good internet connection, doesnt have an excuse there, i just suck, i know  :D

BTW a lot of what i see in this thread is complaining/whining from 2h who seemingly get killed by 1h, that can not be, may not be, will not be, in their minds.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 05:45:40 pm by kinngrimm »
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Offline Kalam

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Re: Reasonable Side Sword Nerf
« Reply #74 on: March 21, 2011, 05:48:55 pm »
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@Vicious666
i would choose speed anytime over other abilities, so take away some cut damage, but let me have my speed, otherwise you have to nerf a lot of 2h/polearm weapons speed too. If you want to have different playstyles you need weapons who have stregth in different areas, sitesword special area is the speed.


Actually, if you're using the huscarl with it, you're not experiencing the full benefits of speed. To do that, you need to use one of the smaller, faster shields or fight shieldless- though the latter makes you very vulnerable to weapon stun, which negates most of the benefits of speed.

All in all, I'd say a reasonable nerf  is to take away damage or speed by 2. No need to do both. This should line it up as an option with the other one-handed high tier weapons without making it a no-brainer.

Now, my crazy self would actually prefer something a little more ridiculous, like taking away 6 or 7 damage and actually buffing speed by 1 or 2.