archery..

[Dravic]

You'll die from arrows in melee fight just as much as you'll die in the open. Greed of players who play this mod had hit the limit. No one gives a fuck about their teammates anymore, everyone wants to KILL!

Archers (both friendly and enemy) will shoot a group of you poor sobs who are fighting in melee, they'll rip you all to shreds and after you are all dead you'll see on scoreboard that only archers got kills.

Let's think about your post Leshma:

Greed of players who play this mod had hit the limit. No one gives a fuck about their teammates anymore, everyone wants to KILL!

I'd say this part "screams" to my mind (as a reader of your post), that you DON'T want people to care only about kills.

And then we have:

they'll rip you all to shreds and after you are all dead you'll see on scoreboard that only archers got kills.

This part "screams" to my mind that you are getting mad cause it's not you who got the kills from the fight.



Being a hypocrite is so sweet.

[Teeth]

It... blocks arrows? which is why you use it? It just slows you down by a small bit, you can drop it before going into melee fights and only use it when you are pushing forward if you really need that movement speed.

No it doesn't. I said when im fighting. When I'm fighting its on my back and it does completely nothing. The amount of time that its safe to get my shield out is very little and when its safe to get my shield out I can also focus on dodging, which works quite well and keeps me moving fast.

1 point.  Easily worth it over 2 hp.   
My point exactly is that it isn't.

In the fray use bodies or other shielders for cover.  Leave the shield on the back most of the time, but when you are alone or charging archers bust it out.
Which is like 30 seconds in the 4 minutes a round usually takes. Might aswell dodge those few times I could get my shield out

Simple.I also get hit the most by other melee when I'm teamed up on.  Funny how that works, this crazy teamwork thing
No idea what this has to do with what I said. My point was, I mostly get shot when I am fighting, couldn't use a shield during fighting anyway. When I'm not fighting I can dodge, which works quite well

But really you can take steps to avoid this. If I'm in a melee fight while archers are shooting at me I try to position myself "behind" the enemy so archers will have a hard time hitting me.  Otherwise work on adjusting your footwork and sticking close to the enemy melee - the archer will be forced to reposition/stop firing lest they risk hitting their teammate in which case you get a free hit. As an archer the easiest time to hit people tangled in melee are when they are backing away or moving forward for a swing.  If you focus on circling or sticking close I don't even bother risking it.
Not sure if my brain has enough space to think about hiding behind people during fighting, but sure this can help, as long as there are no pikes in the enemy squad which force you to stay at range.

Don't... be... off guard?  I don't know why that's part of your argument.
As you seem to think that you can get your shield out whenever youre alone, imagine passing a corner and theres an enemy right after it who immediately attacks you. Shit like that happens and can really fuck you over.

I'd rather be alive and worry about that problem, than being dead to ranged.  Besides there are plenty of 2h weapons that can be used with a shield.. of course that would only be a temporary thing but this also allows you to fully push onto ranged with the shield up and still be ready to kill them without having to sheath the shield.
I am a polearmer and don't start on me with warspears etc.

E:

(click to show/hide)

Fun fact: I'm 2H right now and I don't even use a shield.

Gee, I wonder why, maybe because it blows?

Also, two archers from different directions and youre still toast with a shield

Commented in red. Please note that I am not really whining about archery when they are just doing what they do and occasionally kill me. The only thing that pisses me off is them always being the last guys left and then they just run and crossfire you. That just wants to make me kill puppies. Oh and the amount of ranged whores on the server. Thats why the class needs to be shit, to keep the number of archers to playable levels.

[BlindGuy]

Yeah well... what can we do... the ranged lobby performs the best head / oral pleasure around here so even if they made archery take skill which they did the ranged lobby will gather their finest oral experts in to change the devs mind in the last sec..

The moment when chadz an the devs decide to remove spray n pray archery he felt a disturbance in the force... it was like... a million 12 year old cs kids all cried out at once and were suddenly silenced by being rewarded with deadly braindead body shot dmg.

Tzar your so stupid sometimes it hurts MY brain...

Look: If an archer is spraying, hes not doing dmg. If he is doing dmg, he is not spraying, he is taking time and care. If he is handing out a LOT of dmg fast, it is because he is 10th Dan, Black Belt arrow chucker, with +3's all over shit, and probs lvl 33.

I dont like being shot, I really hate it. But it is STILL crossbows that are OP. The only range option that requires no hybridization. OBVIOUSLY with 150 wpf in xbows you shoot faster/ more accurate. But with 0 skill points spent and 0 wpf on Xbows I can still pick one up and kill people reliably, the accuracy is decent and the dmg is unnafected.

Xbows need a controlling skill, accuracy nerf: Medieval crossbows are not modern hunting/sporting goods, they are dodgy, innacurate, and prone to mechanical failure.

[Zerran]

I don't see any gamebreaking issue with ranged damage right now (perhaps slightly too high, but I'm likely biased in the matter so I'll leave that discussion for elsewhere). The issue is that they don't need any support to play well. Due to light armor and medium-high agi they can outrun almost all melee.

Melee could get lighter armor to chase down archers, but then they die almost instantly from the arrows, not to mention they become less effective in melee (you know, their class?).

Melee could also get heavier armor and survive more shots, but then they become so slow that they absolutely CANNOT catch archers.

Assuming you don't use an unsheathable weapon, and have an extra slot, you can spend a few points and get a shield, but that, once again, doesn't work. All having a shield out does is make you slower while blocked, again can't catch the archers, and if you aren't using a 1H and turn a corner with your shield out and meet an enemy melee, you are dead. I carried a shield for a gen to try this, and I did far worse against archers than I do now, simply because they can kite you without any effort if you have to block every time they turn around, as due to their light armor they have very high acceleration.

I've said this a few times, but what we need to do is drastically reduce movement speed if someone has a bow equipped, and also somewhat reduce movement speed of people with an xbow equipped. Lastly, make ranged only deal full damage if their target is a certain distance away from them, if the target is closer, they deal increasingly less damage. Say, 10 meters is the minimum for 100% damage, every meter closer reduces damage by 10-20%. This way, archers need melee support, as they can't run without dropping the bow, and they can't shotgun.

[Leshma]

This part "screams" to my mind that you are getting mad cause it's not you who got the kills from the fight.

Of course I think that people who fight in melee deserve kills more than those who stand at distance and shoot at people who are fighting. You don't?

Same goes for cavalry who bump half of a group just to couch some poor sob from behind (enemy or teammate, you never know who's gonna die in those situations).

Essence of this game is melee fighting, it saddens me that so many of you don't get that.

But I would like removal of kill/death count. That would do wonders for teamplay and would balance players between various game modes a lot better.

[Gravoth_iii]

Of course I think that people who fight in melee deserve kills more than those who stand at distance and shoot at people who are fighting. You don't?

Same goes for cavalry who bump half of a group just to couch some poor sob from behind (enemy or teammate, you never know who's gonna die in those situations).

Essence of this game is melee fighting, it saddens me that so many of you don't get that.

But I would like removal of kill/death count. That would do wonders for teamplay and would balance players between various game modes a lot better.

Dont think removing k/d would change teamwork much, people would still get the rush from killing someone.

[Leshma]

Yeah, it wouldn't change things completely but it would certainly "cure" situations where half of a server see that Chase dude on top with 30/2 and instantly want to do the same as he does by shooting, hitting, couching recklessly.

There was a time when players of this mod didn't act like monkeys, I'm kinda said it's gone.

[Gravoth_iii]

Yeah, it wouldn't change things completely but it would certainly "cure" situations where half of a server see that Chase dude on top with 30/2 and instantly want to do the same as he does by shooting, hitting, couching recklessly.

There was a time when players of this mod didn't act like monkeys, I'm kinda said it's gone.

There was? cool, guess i missed it then... all i remember is robocop archers, and after that just pure robocops still and still same amount of teamwounding.

[Penitent]

Of course I think that people who fight in melee deserve kills more than those who stand at distance and shoot at people who are fighting. You don't?

Same goes for cavalry who bump half of a group just to couch some poor sob from behind (enemy or teammate, you never know who's gonna die in those situations).

Essence of this game is melee fighting, it saddens me that so many of you don't get that.

But I would like removal of kill/death count. That would do wonders for teamplay and would balance players between various game modes a lot better.

Lesh, your post is full of fallacies.  No one class deserves more kills than the other.  The essence of the game is not melee fighting.  The essence of the game is multiplayer medieval combat.  That requires balance, not melee favoritism.  The essence is melee, ranged, and mounted fighting all together, creating different scenarios where tactics and teamplay should be employed.  Melee might be the essence of the game for you, but that doesn't make it the essence of the game for everyone.

[Tzar]

Lesh, your post is full of fallacies.  No one class deserves more kills than the other.  The essence of the game is not melee fighting.  The essence of the game is multiplayer medieval combat.  That requires balance, not melee favoritism.  The essence is melee, ranged, and mounted fighting all together, creating different scenarios where tactics and teamplay should be employed.  Melee might be the essence of the game for you, but that doesn't make it the essence of the game for everyone.

Make archery have the same killing ability as melee an you have a full server of archers because the risk vs reward senario is stupid compared to melee inf...

Also if you don't know what risk vs reward means

“No pain, no gain.” How many times have you heard that cliché to describe something you really didn’t want to do? Unfortunately, building your character carries a certain amount of risk and with that risk can come some pain, but also some gain.
You must weigh the potential reward against the risk of your build to decide if the “pain is worth the potential gain.” Understanding the relationship between risk and reward is a key piece in building your character.

Now if someone can gain the same amount of kills an die alot less hes more likely to chose that build be it Archer / Cav / Crossbow / 2h / 1h ect ect...

Now some people love their build / class an stick with it no matter what. But there will always be the people who pick the easy way to gain the reward an that´s where cav an archers comes to mind both classes can pick their own fights an run off if the situation doesn't favor them.

Im not saying ranged is the best class there is or the one with the biggest killing potential but the class is able to target their enemy from range which dons't involve much risk unless hes team mates are all dead..

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

I was playing my HA stf alt recently and doing really well!
came back to my inf character, got shot in the arm, lsot half my hp, i was like : wuuuuuut?

[isatis]

time for a short guide in ten step to save your char from arrow.

FIRST: stay calm and don't move, they'll ignore you!

SECOND: insult them in chat so they will be disturb

THIRD: bringin a shield would encourage them to kill you, use reverse psychology and get a shield on your back

FOURTH: Teamkill all archer in your team to make archer in other team dread you

FIFTH: Stay away from shielder at all cost! they are arrow magnet!

SIXTH: If an archer disturb you, walk in straight line to him, he will be confused!

SEVENTH: never, ever, take cover, if you let those archer time, they may plan an ambush!

EIGHTH: Archer are a plague, if you see a mob of them, charge!!

NINTH: use the sun at your advantage! wear your heaviest shiny armor, add a torch so teamarcher won't tk you, and walk directly to enemies archer, they get blind!

TENTH: To avoid archer FF when your fighting, place yourself between the archer and your fighting bro on other team, and spamm ''m'' do that 5 time and you'll never be tw again by that archer!


Tadam!

[Penitent]

Make archery have the same killing ability as melee an you have a full server of archers because the risk vs reward senario is stupid compared to melee inf...

I see what you mean, but I think all classes have, (and should have) the same killing potential.  The advantage for archers is they can kill from a range.  The disadvantage is that they are killed easier.  As a melee 2h player, I LOVE getting close to an archer.    Soft meat.

Of course it is more nuanced than that, but that's the gist.  There is still risk for the reward of ranged.  Same with cav...they can 1 shot pretty easy with a couch...but they can also BE one shot pretty easy with speed bonus.  I think the game is largely balanced right now.

[Tzar]

I think the game is largely balanced right now.

Agree just need cmp to find out how to remove pole stagger an maybe tune down the insta pike thrust an remove heirlooms completely..

But like i pointed out if you read carefully is that most players tend to pick the safe way to get the reward an if that involves a bow n arrow you get too many of em on the server an it just fucks up the overall balance of the other classes...

Try playing on EU-4 the new pecores server.... you have 23vs22 fx  out of the teams there are 10 archers on each which kinda proves my point.. an the server becomes unplayable..

But on EU1 the teams are more mixed an it plays out well so yeah balance is archived ill give you that but it all depends on how many people are playing on the server to fill out their roles...

[Gurnisson]

I've always found you a good and smart player Gravoth but this...

Archery is pretty damn weak as it is, whenever i get hit it barely does any difference to me unless the stun fucks me up.

...makes me think. I get two-hit, three-hit at best by those fully loomed archers that in addition to being extremely powerful easily run away from me too (bagge, Zerobot etc.). I have 21 strength 5 IF and 50 body armour. Explain to me how you receive little damage to ranged again.