throwing is broken

[Rumblood]

Okay, I've got to state that all you people that are complaining that 100 WPF isn't enough, or that they have more WPF in a melee weapon; GTFO with your wine and cheese! You know how much WPF an archer puts into archery? ALL of it! For them to be accurate AT RANGE (I'm not talking about 20 feet in front of you, I'm talking about at the weapons intended range of 100 yards or more) they pour everything into WPF for archery and if they go too high on PD and not WM, their shots will still be somewhat randomized by the reticule even with smaller bows like the Tatar or Horn ( and don't even talk about the Longbow).

When you start coming in here and describing your experience as being shitty with 145+ WPF, then I'll be willing to listen to how inaccurate it is. Until then, I've lost my sympathy for the great majority of the complainers in this thread.

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

i have more wpf in throwing then any wpf in a melee class and im still a bit meh about it's accuracy...

but it's ok, you never had much of my sympathy either, you cant compare archery and throwing...

[Digglez]

Okay, I've got to state that all you people that are complaining that 100 WPF isn't enough, or that they have more WPF in a melee weapon; GTFO with your wine and cheese! You know how much WPF an archer puts into archery? ALL of it! For them to be accurate AT RANGE (I'm not talking about 20 feet in front of you, I'm talking about at the weapons intended range of 100 yards or more) they pour everything into WPF for archery and if they go too high on PD and not WM, their shots will still be somewhat randomized by the reticule even with smaller bows like the Tatar or Horn ( and don't even talk about the Longbow).

When you start coming in here and describing your experience as being shitty with 145+ WPF, then I'll be willing to listen to how inaccurate it is. Until then, I've lost my sympathy for the great majority of the complainers in this thread.

yep and you can hit a target @ 50-100+ yards, we cant even hit a target 5yards away half the time.  we're comparing throwing as a 2ndary weapon like the xbow, which is obviously still overpowered and needs more nerfing.  either require power draw, make all the xbows unsheathable, etc

[Gurnisson]

we're comparing throwing as a 2ndary weapon like the xbow, which is obviously still overpowered and needs more nerfing.  either require power draw, make all the xbows unsheathable, etc

Crossbows are by no means overpowered and throwing is not underpowered. They're both two valid options that does its different jobs quite well. Archery on the other hand, that's another case. That's the only ranged class that can be called overpowered. Mabye not by that much, but it's still a lot better choice than dedicated throwing/xbow.

[Life]

i play as a pure thrower, with my special OP build, i do fine, i often get compliments by other throwers as well as the people i kill, one of which is Chestacles (:

 i sometimes 1 shot people (light armor) and 2 shot archers and medium armor. with heavy armor players like plate or heraldic, they can take 2 or 3 lances in them and sometimes theyll have 3 in them and still be alive, but the 4th one surely takes them out.

The only buff that i see necessary is the accuracy. i have 120 wpf. a small buff to accuracy would be amazing.

[Slamz]

You know how much WPF an archer puts into archery? ALL of it!

And I would seriously consider putting all of my WPF into throwing if I was able to run around with 25 heavy throwing axes the way you can run around with 45 bodkin arrows.

Throwing is a hybrid ability.  That's how it's used in native and that's what makes sense given the severe ammo limits.  Making someone have over 100 wpf in throwing in order to utilize PT 5 in medium armor doesn't give them a lot of strong options.

There are "pure throwers" out there but I never see them topping the charts.  How many times have I seen Chucky get cut down because he's running around trying to find something else to throw...


Archery makes sense as a dedicated build.
"Thrower" really doesn't.  Thrower makes sense as a hybrid build but current formulas discourage all hybrids.

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

throwing lance has 156 accuracy

standing still, throwing at 15 feet at an immobile archer, only one out of 4 lances hit

accuracy is pretty derp...

[Wraist]

throwing lance has 156 accuracy

standing still, throwing at 15 feet at an immobile archer, only one out of 4 lances hit

accuracy is pretty derp...

Throwing lances are terrible compared to every other throwing weapon. The rest are fine imo.

[Rumblood]

You guys want to be hybrids, then you don't need the accuracy or the ammo increase. Archers used to be able to effectively hybrid and got nerfed into the dust until they can't wear armor, they can't use anything other than a 1hander with a small bow if they want to be an archer with ammo, or a 0 slot mostly useless 1 hander if they want to use a big boy bow. (not to mention it is no longer worth it to get any athletics at all. Just convert those skills into attributes and get another PD or WM point)

If you want to be an actual Thrower (which so far I haven't seen a single one say that they are), then put all of your WPF into throwing, and then lobby for increased ammo for it. If there is a thrower out there that has 150 WPF and still can't hit with the mid-range throwing weapons, then I would agree to an accuracy increase. Otherwise, no, I don't want to see throwers as the all effective melee and ranged battlefield Rambo's. We already removed that option for one class and I see no reason to make it viable for a different one.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

a pure thrower is still a good cav counter if equipped with trowing lances, but you have only four lances and i dont know much pure throwers out there on EU (stone cold and a 22nd). this is not enough to stop cav just crashing in a mob with no fear..

Fuck you for forgetting about me...  (give me those masterwork throwing lances or I'll never forgive you)

Throwing lances are terrible compared to every other throwing weapon. The rest are fine imo.

You're wrong as fuck, as a HT I chose throwing lances over jarids, accuracy is way better, arch is way more userfriendly, and damage is not bad...
Also: My personal take on balancing throwing as a nearly-pure thrower (yeah, I'm a HT mostly, but yeah).
See, what Rumblood doesn't understand is that throwing IS the hybrid-melee ranged class...
If I go 150throwing wpf 90% of the tricks I use to get targets to not dodge will be invalid, I won't stand a chance in melee, and finally then it won't help much on accuracy.
Unlike most players (or what I assume based on the two pages I've read is most players opinion  ) opinion I say that throwing should keep it's accuracy, it should however be given 1,3 ammo for every weapon, have archs of certain weapons be adjusted so that they are more situational (throwing axes looping over shields and into the shielders, while I believe throwing lances and jarids and spears should have a very straight arch), and finally buff damage 25-30%. I also believe in buffing HTs in some way (we're the only horse-ranged NEVER being bitches about, and I know only me and Lorenzo on EU) damage related... throwing was not meant to be headshot-aiming shit, IMO it was meant to be having a hard time hitting the person you're aiming at from the distance an archer has a somewhat hard time headshotting... and it was meant to have a capable melee sidearm...
(archery should be given the choice of better weapons in exchange for not being able to eternally run IMO)

[Cyclopsided]

RUmblood, that is what the maker of this topic is. ALL WPF in throwing. dedicated thrower.
it is shit tier accuracy. There is nowhere near the benefit to it like there is for archery.
The problem is that it is ALSO now bad damage, so you have low ammo, Low accuracy, meh damage.
Increase the accuracy so we can have a more skill-based throwing and aim for heads.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Throwing isn't terrible. I have 65 HP and 73 BA. Average arrow take away 15-20% of my HP, bolt fired from arbalest from 50-80%, single javelin about 30% and it is usually thrown by hybrid throwers who probably don't have more than 6 PT. So, it's not true that throwing is underpowered compared to other ranged options.

Arrow=NEVER MORE THAN 6PD=15-20%=better accuracy and way more shots
Jav=Mostly between 5 and 7pt=30%=way less ammo, way worse accuracy=Leshma be bullshittin' sayin' throwing isn't up.

[Rumblood]

RUmblood, that is what the maker of this topic is. ALL WPF in throwing. dedicated thrower.
it is shit tier accuracy. There is nowhere near the benefit to it like there is for archery.
The problem is that it is ALSO now bad damage, so you have low ammo, Low accuracy, meh damage.
Increase the accuracy so we can have a more skill-based throwing and aim for heads.

No, the hybrids are glomming on to his statement about accuracy without paying attention to his entire statement. He says he doesn't have enough accuracy to headshot for the damage it does. So accuracy isn't the issue except for the cries from the hybrids who think that 100 WPF should be pinpoint accurate anywhere they throw. If you really think you should have enough accuracy at 100 WPF to headshot everyone in range, you guys are insane. Even archers can't reliably do it with people dodging left and right and cavalry on the move.

Increase ammo, and adjust damage accordingly. But I am never going to support being able to headshot with 3 of 4 axes every time.

[Thomek]

I wouldn't mind an accuracy buff..

[IG_Saint]

If you want to be an actual Thrower (which so far I haven't seen a single one say that they are), then put all of your WPF into throwing, and then lobby for increased ammo for it. If there is a thrower out there that has 150 WPF and still can't hit with the mid-range throwing weapons, then I would agree to an accuracy increase. Otherwise, no, I don't want to see throwers as the all effective melee and ranged battlefield Rambo's. We already removed that option for one class and I see no reason to make it viable for a different one.

I made a STF char, but I've had some hybrid and pure thrower alts before:
   
    Strength: 21
    Agility: 18

    Power Strike: 4
    Athletics: 6
    Power Throw: 7
    Weapon Master: 6

    Throwing: 156

Accuracy is still all over the place, one moment you'll make a perfect throw over 20 meters, the next you'll miss from 2. The worst part is it isn't that much more accurate than say 125 wpf, there's still a massive random element in every throw. Then there's the always fun part of running out of ammo long before you run out of enemies and having to use some random melee weapon of the ground with 1 wpf and 4 ps. Pure throwers really could use a buff.

That said, hybrid throwers really DON'T need a buff. I remember when hybrid throwers were most popular and at their strongest. I really don't want to see that again. The bolded part from rumblood's post sums it up quite nicely.

So unless someone can come up with a way to buff pure throwers without buffing hybrids, I say leave them as they are.