Teamplay, how can we resurrect it?

[helvictus]

Crpg IS individualism...

To be honest, first of all, this if we were based around all doing the same thing in formation then why do we all look more or less completely different, granted everyone is generally just going for the better stuff rather than individualism but still...

for a first post on a forum though its not too informative so...

Onto topic... i've seen people in this thread referring to the team play in mount and musket. I'm primarily a MM player and a member of a regiment (the grand and worthy 92nd gordon highlanders!) and the team play you will have seen in videos will all be from private clan matches on passworded servers. 

These servers are VERY strictly controlled and the clan leaders are very good at keeping the men in line but that is only half of how the team play works.

to begin with i'll say that the pub servers on MM are just as chaotic as people say this is now, randomers doing random things with occasionally the odd regiment lining up and firing into the buildings but it doesn't work very well if the others are following the rules. The regiments will only really ever play on public to try and recruit new members from people who like what they see. secret message, join the 92nd!

The main half of why people play so strictly on mount and musket however is the time frame that the game is set in and the expectation of particular behavior that this brings. If you have specifically downloaded a mod that is based around a time in history where people lined up and shot at each other then, to a degree, that's what you expect to see in game or at least what a good portion of the people playing want to see in game.

This game is set in an age of swords and shields, of battle axes and broadswords and the people who download it come to the game with their own set of expectations. They don't always want to be a cog in a machine, no matter how well oiled it may be. They want to be robin hood or some other hero character.

Right now I think i'm a little too busy to try and join any clans here and besides i'm still very newbish and so wouldn't want to try yet but i would love to see some form of team play be brought to the fray in game somehow.

I don't think it can be compared to MM though. The only suggestion i can bring from my experience there is that on the main MM public server there is a public line battle every monday at 7pm GMT, (if you were looking to play i'd suggest you start there) Obviously you cant have admins or mods online 24/7 but there will always be a couple at the public line battle. The notice on entering the server tells you the deal and you can expect to be kicked if you are ramboing.

Perhaps something similar could work here?

I'm very newbish on this mod though so dont flame me too hard

thanks.

[Malevolent_Warlord]

In order to get some teamwork going on a few statements have to exist:

1) Player understands teamwork and its benefits
2) Player is willing to serve others

Teamwork starts when a player serves another player. This maybe onesided, but still its two players working "together" even if the other one is playing solo. Multiply there "servants" and then we have more teamwork. But there will be no teamwork if those two statements dont exist.

What I do is I find the some skilled and non-suicidal players and I help them. They often recognize me when I start following them around for many rounds and help out.

Another solution (maybe) would be to create a server that name is "CRPG 7 - Teamwork only". Have the server password protected and the password placed in the forum in a thread where we state the rules of the server. I guess this would reduce the number of soloplayers... perhaps. We would need a lot of admins to kick out players who go solo all the time.

We need leaders, but we also need people willing to serve others.

[Tzar]

This thread is pointless now with the new random twister hurricane team balancer.. enjoy having to explain your idea 10 times during 1 map...

[Thomek]

Agree the current team balancer makes it pointless. But I have hopes it will get fixed.

Anyway.. You are right in that cRPG IS individualism..

Guess what I'm trying to say is that we need to help players be individualist teamworkers. There should be a potential benefit from carrying a banner. There should be potential benefit to listen to the leader etc.

If we manage to lift cRPG into a teamwork game, it will stay so. If team 1 is well led and well organized, winning all the time, team 2 will start to do the same.

Less campy maps would be a start..

[To Kill A Dead Horse]

Solution: (maybe) If a person gets a kill he gets exp for it,and the teammates up to a certain distance away will get exp also.
 This most likely would work; in my mind archers will group up more, and inf will try to stay together. While cav may not exactly benefit as much from this idea.

Bascily the old exp system (i think)

Also an event server would be nice if you could only pal with ceratin gear that is given.

[Kajia]

teamplay? oh, I wrote some stuff about that somewhere.
sigh ...
link

a small excerpt from linked text (I'm quoting myself)

Right now, cRPG means all players are be equal on the battlefield. Everyone can duel every kind of ROLE on the battlefield always with a small winning chance. I mean for a casual game, this is ... okay. But for a game that ideally supports high level teamplay, like 'Strategus', this is not very helpful. Right now people are encouraged to just choose ANY weapon (preferably matching their skill) and defeat another player on their own, because it might be possible. I think making it more realistic in a radical way, meaning a small hammer can not beat a long axe/twohander/shielder, would be better. Because THAT would encourage more teamplay; and would still not change the levelling logic in general. It actually means being afraid of arch-enemies of your class and being urged to stay in team.

with this text I was suggesting more realism, to make people more dependent on another ... yes, dependent on all these dudes not knowing what the fuck they are hitting. wanna know why? because they'll learn. call me a dreamer, whatever
___

well, realism is only one thing. commanders and such are the others.

- as for the commanders: why not make an ingame QMC option (like QMU) for voting up commanders?
- I'd also vote for a walk-in-same-pace button
- also this could actually work:

I just got the funny idea that players could also get small rewards for every killed enemy (5xp, 2gold, or perhaps 0.01 more on multiplier?) within a certain range (50m radius?) as long as they did NOT kill them, themselves. I bet this would have funny effects on player behaviour, making them support and protect the others, in the hope of helping them to kill an enemy. I don't think enemies would be sorrounded but not attacked, the greed won't go that far, but it could support more little "squads" like a shielder at the front, followed by a two handed fighter and both supported by a pikeman and a crossbowman. If they decide to help and protect each other this squad is a damn nightmare for everyone.

or what about giving this reward to all players who hit an enemy at least once without killing him? would be funny to have players running around hitting everybody but never trying to kill anyone
but maybe giving xp/money is not the best solution at all, wanting to play in team and being motivated through a group experience would be best (an inspiring commander can achieve this, but he can also fail)

my 5 cts

[Chagan_Arslan]

to have a teamplay you only really need couple of open field maps in a row

first open map after a series of village maps wont work, as the mob is still mentally in rambo mode, they need some time to adjust

[Sawbone]

I'll be the whining bitch: I'm taking 40 hours worth of orders a week, don't wanna start following orders in cRPG too ;)

Teamwork happens on a smaller scale every fight, and sometimes I've seen large portion of armies actually follow some very loose ideas (camp hill, goto ruins, etc). But personally, when a dude starts barking orders telling people what to do... well I'll ignore it. That is unless I know the person, in this case, I'm more open for suggestions.

That's the key word: suggestions.

I understand the objective though, and I wouldn't dislike the idea of organized battles now and then (but that sounds like strategus? - just saying, because I haven't tried it).

[KaMiKaZe_JoE]

just get some in-game voice chat capability

barring that, an official TS/Vent server would work nicely.

[Vibe]

Remove ladders, make archers stick to melee and melee protect the archers.

[Angantyr]

In the Vikingr mod we added a battle horn to the chieftain class ( 1 per team ) which can be blow for an added damage and armor bonus ( +1 on each or something like that ) to all friendlies within 30m, and with a timer and a cool down, this helps to get people to at least stay near their leaders and helps coordinate charges and such. We also added an equippable banner item which besides looking good on the battlefield gives a constant healing rate to all friendlies near it ( very low healing rate in a quite short radius, to mimic a morale boost I'd vote for something different though, don't like healing much despite it working well enough in Vikingr ). This combined with the the removal of the shield force fields has made formations viable for most players, and the usual Vikingr battlefield has a banner carrier following the chieftain and most everyone else forming up behind them ( plus for events there's often several chieftains and banner carriers per side ).

I know these aren't necessarily good features for cRPG but being close to what has been suggested here a few times maybe it could serve as inspiration for something usable.

[Templar_Ratigan]

Agree the current team balancer makes it pointless. But I have hopes it will get fixed.

Anyway.. You are right in that cRPG IS individualism..

Guess what I'm trying to say is that we need to help players be individualist teamworkers. There should be a potential benefit from carrying a banner. There should be potential benefit to listen to the leader etc.

If we manage to lift cRPG into a teamwork game, it will stay so. If team 1 is well led and well organized, winning all the time, team 2 will start to do the same.

Less campy maps would be a start..

Agreed with all, I especially liked the ' individualist teamworkers', that's a good term. I always made odd builds for my own personal amusement, but if I saw a friendly in trouble id always make sure I helped them out as best I could.

[Joker86]

In order to get some teamwork going on a few statements have to exist:

1) Player understands teamwork and its benefits
2) Player is willing to serve others

You are right on this, concerning the current state of the game. And as both points are missing badly in the cRPG community, there is something to be done about this.

That's why I suggested to implement a few commander tools to not only give orders, but also to reward players following them. I think money and XP would be the closest thing to decide for, and pretty much everyone wants those, so I think this would work.

This way players wouldn't need to meet those two points above, improving the gameplay for those who actually understand 1) and 2) (those who follow the orders because of the rewards, without really understanding or at least thinking about what they do wouldn't feel bad about the change, either, as they would receive small additional rewards. And still they wouldn't be forced to follow the commands, as they still get their usual rewards per tick)

[Thomek]

I think it is more fun, and probably more rewarding to get a 1 time reward rather than ticking in. Ticking in rewards are grind-reminding.

It doesn't even have to be that great.. Valour and/or even a public message would be cool if a flag bearer survived the round, or someone picked up a flag.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

You are right on this, concerning the current state of the game. And as both points are missing badly in the cRPG community, there is something to be done about this.

That's why I suggested to implement a few commander tools to not only give orders, but also to reward players following them. I think money and XP would be the closest thing to decide for, and pretty much everyone wants those, so I think this would work.

This way players wouldn't need to meet those two points above, improving the gameplay for those who actually understand 1) and 2) (those who follow the orders because of the rewards, without really understanding or at least thinking about what they do wouldn't feel bad about the change, either, as they would receive small additional rewards. And still they wouldn't be forced to follow the commands, as they still get their usual rewards per tick)

That way you will reward people who stop thinking and just do what a person "commands", just to get a bonus 

Further this will totally kill any individualism, as everyone would do that stuff to get more xp or gold 

Bad idea.

People start thinking! Just take the role of commander and start giving orders instead of whining about absent teamplay....If you give clear and understandable and also more or less logic orders (telling your team to charge in a line one after another for example wouldn't be logical^^) people will start to follow you, at least a couple of them. If people see that they survived for a long time they will start following these orders as well -->  TADA! Teamplay

You are like politicians^^  Lots of discussion, but it leads to nothing

Less talking, more raiding ;)