Teamplay, how can we resurrect it?

[Glyph]

Thanks for your support! 

I think this is where the problem lies. What you (and a few others) suggested requires self-initiative from the community (even if it is noticing something very basic.). And this is what you won't get, otherwise we would already have a decent level of teamplay.

I already read other things in this topic, like "if you think about it" or "a vote system won't work, if you see good commanders write them down on a sheet of paper" and similar things. But all those things don't work.

In my eyes the majority of the population on a server behaves like a bunch of lemmings in search of the next cliff. Every other solution than one that "pushes" them into teamplay by default, only letting those out who actively refuse, won't bring any improvement.

It's like the law for compulsory education. First all people are not that into learning and school (as they are still children), but as soon as they get teenagers, many of them realize the importance of a good education, and keep on learning by themselves, to earn a higher graduation. Even if it's not fun for them, they see it's the "right" way. If they wouldn't have been forced by the law to visit the first few classes, many of them wouldn't differ a bit from all that other folks you see in front of pubs, stations or strip clubs, as they wouldn't know it another way.

The only difference is, that teamplay is a lot of more fun, for far more people, than higher education is. 

what's wrong with going to a stripclub! haha(sorry, just had too)

good point, i know that if i will fail all my tests, which require studying... , that i will not be able to go to the university. so by logicly thinking, i can see that that is the better thing to do. but yeah, you need that first educational push towards the right direction, and the only people that can give that little push are the devs, no normal player can force the others to do so, we need power form above to help us solve this problem, so if we want this to work, we atleast need some opinions from the devs, if they don't aprove, we can whine all we want, but it wont make any difference. we need some bigger guns to win this war, donkey guns to be exact...

[Joker86]

(click to show/hide)

what's wrong with going to a stripclub! haha(sorry, just had too)

good point, i know that if i will fail all my tests, which require studying... , that i will not be able to go to the university. so by logicly thinking, i can see that that is the better thing to do. but yeah, you need that first educational push towards the right direction, and the only people that can give that little push are the devs, no normal player can force the others to do so, we need power form above to help us solve this problem, so if we want this to work, we atleast need some opinions from the devs, if they don't aprove, we can whine all we want, but it wont make any difference. we need some bigger guns to win this war, equus africanus asinus guns to be exact...

100% agree.

It is signed, I can only approved.

+1

[Glyph]

so Paul, get your ass up here and say something(usefull, not like the other time i asked you to...) 

[Tears of Destiny]

Part of the problem (a large part in my opinion) is that some people don't want team play. They want to get home, fire up cRPG and relax and just mindlessly play and have fun to help unwind. Nothing wrong with that.

[Joker86]

Part of the problem (a large part in my opinion) is that some people don't want team play. They want to get home, fire up cRPG and relax and just mindlessly play and have fun to help unwind. Nothing wrong with that.

I don't see where this collides with the idea of teamplay.

- You don't need to use your brain to stick close to a flag that grants you additional gold and XP
- You don't wait any longer, as it doesn't care if you spend your time waiting on a hill or in spectator mode
- You don't kill less people, if anything you kill more of them

Teamplay is like driving cars. Once learned you don't think about it any more, when doing it. Most people appearently think that using tactics is like playing a small (Waht? Even smaller?) Napoleon Bonaparte, sitting over a map and discussing about flanks and reinforcements.

[KaMiKaZe_JoE]

I'm so late to the discussion that I'm only going to suggest one really fucking important thing: in considering coordination, leadership, and team work in cRPG I implore you to draw insight from any and all of your experiences with other games in which multiple people have participated. This applies mainly to video games, however I'm sure an adequate number of "good ideas" can be found in the guise of those other competitive games we've played through out our lives: tag on the school playground, board games with friends (if you have any), sports, etc. While cRPG is special, and is the focus of our discussion, let us remember that it is at it's very core a game.

How were leader's picked for the school yard games we all vaguely remember participating in? Normally popular consent, no? Though I remember occasions when we would rotate leaders so that everyone had a turn to take charge in capture the flag--fair, but there was lots of sucking. In the Empires mod for HL2 leaders are voted for at the beginning of each round, though the coordination is made possible by a clever squad system.

But who needs leaders when the simplest of forms of coordination is possible, such as when myself and my friends play basketball (I suck). There there are no leaders, only basic commands like "cover that fucker!", and spontaneous coordination whereby I simply know to go for the rebound because I'm the closest one, and no one's covering me. The same thing happens when a pikeman takes a moment to look around, and seeing that the rear of his team's gaggle-fuck is exposed to enemy cavalry, moves to the back of the "formation". In this, heed Joker's advice when he notes the misconception many have about team work, that "[it's] like playing a small...Napoleon Bonaparte, sitting over a map and discussing about flanks and reinforcements". It can be much subtler.

First and foremost I suggest that there be official ventrilo/TS servers--because coordination is greatly facilitated by communication. This includes verbal communication, though there are uses for non-verbal (banners, flags, chat, etc) shit.

[Hellsing]

Remove little kids, they think they are invincable and like a "super killer warrior all fucking hero".
Teach them feelings like fear and better understanding of hiding behind a leader.
Give them something like brain, that it is not a good idea to destroy friendly buildings like siege shield, healing tents and so on.
Could be enough

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

Introduce a mechanic that makes players weaker when on their own, maybe for melee combat so ranged can still skirmish more loosely but will take more damage and be weaker at close quarters if caught. This is a bit like raised shield skill when near other shields in strat.

- Give players more IF, PS, PT and Shield when being near teammates
- Also give cavalry more riding when riding within very close proximity to friendly cavalry. The increase in manoeuvre will hopefully not be used as only tight formations will confer the bonus meaning any swerving will cause whole formation to get messed up and trip over itself. This would mean horses would gain increased speed and strike power, along with the ps bonus.
- Give ranged maybe a raised wpf in both xbow and bow when together. Maybe faster fire rates if possible.

This would encourage teamwork. We know that this mechanic is possible regarding increase of stats as it has been implemented into strategus, just need to balance out appropriate bonuses for  each class.

[KaMiKaZe_JoE]

Introduce a mechanic that makes players weaker when on their own

Ah, but you see they already are!

[Glyph]

Introduce a mechanic that makes players weaker when on their own, maybe for melee combat so ranged can still skirmish more loosely but will take more damage and be weaker at close quarters if caught. This is a bit like raised shield skill when near other shields in strat.

- Give players more IF, PS, PT and Shield when being near teammates
- Also give cavalry more riding when riding within very close proximity to friendly cavalry. The increase in manoeuvre will hopefully not be used as only tight formations will confer the bonus meaning any swerving will cause whole formation to get messed up and trip over itself. This would mean horses would gain increased speed and strike power, along with the ps bonus.
- Give ranged maybe a raised wpf in both xbow and bow when together. Maybe faster fire rates if possible.

This would encourage teamwork. We know that this mechanic is possible regarding increase of stats as it has been implemented into strategus, just need to balance out appropriate bonuses for  each class.

good idea! for cav extra speed and maybe horse hp, for inf more if and ath and for archers more arrows/bolts maybe and extra accuracy. this would encourage sticking together a lot!

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

Ah, but you see they already are!

True but give them factual disadvantages that they can be told of rather than common sense based disadvantages. Stupidity is the worst of the c-RPG diseases, its nigh incurable

[Fartface]

Some great ideas in here.

[Riddaren]

Personally I don't think it is convenient to carry a flag because it is more or less in the way.
I have not read all comments but I'm sure someone else has mentioned it already.

A solution would be to not animate the flag if you carry it yourself but show it in the HUD instead.

[Christo]

Very good idea there, Riddaren.

I like it, because when I got a flag on me, I lost a lot of view.

[Malevolent_Warlord]

Whatever system u think of just make it very simple. Puplic games are extremely difficult to command so complicated command systems are pretty much out of the picture. Only clans can work things like that.
I liked Lorenzo of Iberias idea.

Simple system:
- Player grabs a flag. ( Just make it so that it doesnt bother the player.)
- Those teammates (in same battallion perhaps?) who are within 20 meters from the carrier receive: +5 IF, +1 athletics, and slow health regeneration 2HP/10 sec.

Not OP me thinks, but gives a clear benefit. It doesnt increase killpower that much, but gives good defensive capabilities to teammates.

A system like this really gives benefits to teamplayers over han-solos. It would be easy for players to understand.