Bodkins and Archery: An Inconvenient Truth

[Adamar]

I just described what archery is and the freacking scoreboard doesn't state opinions.
And the "I played an archer, it's easy, so I went 2hander" thing is getting old. I've fought enought 2handers with my fighting axe to know how low skilled they usualy are.

[Brutal]

I've played 2 low gens of an archer with:
MW Horn + MW Tatars + Mace
MW Rus + MW Tatars + Hammer
and that was actually BEFORE the full pierce damage "buff"

I finished both generations with a k/d of about 3, let's not even mention sieges.

Yea well try and do the same with non loomed gear, loosing 5 base damage+ shooting speed and accuracy will seriously change your experience.

It has been said many time before fully loomed archer are OP, the gap with non loomed archer is way to big.

[Tears of Destiny]

Every time I read this thread, my bullshit meter explodes.

Talks like what fills 80% of this thread is why the Devs don't listen too close to what you lunatics say.

[Fraemi]

The scoreboard DOES lie, because archers injure people more often, kill horses and control entire large portions of the map - which noone else can do to the same extent, apart from cav.
If anything then archers get too much from heirloom bonuses, a loomless archer is shit compared to a fully loomed bow + arrows. While any other class isn't changed that much by weapon heirlooms.
I never said it was easy, reread again. I said archery felt boring, withdrawn and quite honestly pretty lame in regards to the people I killed.

[Tears of Destiny]

On the other hand a melee class fully loomed with +14 armor from gloves and torso armor... 

[Xant]

On the other hand a melee class fully loomed with +14 armor from gloves and torso armor... 

Armor looms are the silliest thing still in c-RPG. +14 armor from looms, c'mon.. it'd be balanced if it was a total of +7 from gloves and armor. Still a huge goddamn bonus but it wouldn't turn you into a Panzer tank.

[Jarlek]

Armor looms are the silliest thing still in c-RPG. +14 armor from looms, c'mon.. it'd be balanced if it was a total of +7 from gloves and armor. Still a huge goddamn bonus but it wouldn't turn you into a Panzer tank.

Agreed. And as ToD pointed out in another thread, so is bow/quiver 'looms. Still archers whined when he made a suggestion to change it 

[Siiem]

I agree, armour looms are abit over the top, could be changed to +1, +1 and +2.

[Xant]

I agree, armour looms are abit over the top, could be changed to +1, +1 and +2.

More like +2, +1, +1. I say this being completely unbiased.

[MrShine]

I finished both generations with a k/d of about 3, let's not even mention sieges. I never had problems with awareness from either cav or inf because I didn't tunnel vision on one target (it's like an argument of "I'm bad - that's why we need buffs") and knew how to use the "view outfit" button.
I stopped playing an archer because I found the gameplay boring and withdrawn from the real action which is melee.
Also fuck defining by realism and don't state opinions as facts. A good or even a decent archer is better to be had on your team than a good or a decent anything else.

A k/d of 3:1?  As full archer?  I don't buy it.  I remember when the nacrpg site was up and kept track of KDR, the highest KD for archers was like 2.5:1 or something.  You're either lying, you got a bunch of kills in melee instead of archery, or you're a much better archer than you think.  Or maybe with the larger battles in EU you are able to grab a bunch more peasant kills I don't know.

Also - Comparing melee swings and arrow hits doesn't really work, yes melee can be blocked, but it's much easier to get head shots, much harder to dodge swings, and you can attack much faster while in melee.  Plus even an amazing manual blocker probably won't outlast a high level shield taking arrows, a huge counter to lone archers.

To others: The reason I made this thread was to cut through some of the crap flying around, not to serve as a magnet for it.  Stop making claims about archery being OP, loomed archer being OP, whatever, without bringing something to the table.  I'm serious, I would love if we could get some more concretes in this thread instead of bitching.

[Fraemi]

If you really want concretes then repeat your test at 6/7/8PD with a MW Rus + MW Bodkins and MW Horn which is what anyone who knows what he is doing wants or is using.
Regarding the KD, I played siege until about I could get 5pd and 130/140 wpf to use a horn bow with decent accuracy, then I started playing on battles much more often. I really don't claim to be a great archer and I really had a lot to room to improve.

Regarding the heirlooms:
Check how much the damage/accuracy/speed improves for a "regular bow + regular arrows -> mw bow + mw arrows" transition in comparison to "regular 1h/polearm/2h -> mw 1h/polearm/2h".

[Vibe]

Armor looms are the silliest thing still in c-RPG. +14 armor from looms, c'mon.. it'd be balanced if it was a total of +7 from gloves and armor. Still a huge goddamn bonus but it wouldn't turn you into a Panzer tank.

Much much agreed. And I say that as an owner of Lordly gauntlets and Lordly body armor.

[Ujin]

Just jumped in and wanna say that Fraemi used to be a top-notch archer before he respecced , he indeed had loads of kills and was pretty damn accurate, not to mention that he actually almost never tunnel-visioned as well. Believe it or not, i don't really care.


P.S. armor looms should be reduced to +4/5 on torso and  3 on gloves imo.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

What do you mean by k/d 3:1?

That you go out of a round with 3times more kills than deaths?  If so, I have to agree it was and still is possible and actually quite easy IF you are a good archer^^

[MrShine]

What do you mean by k/d 3:1?

That you go out of a round with 3times more kills than deaths?  If so, I have to agree it was and still is possible and actually quite easy IF you are a good archer^^

Occasionally sure, but for a full gen?  No way not easy at all. I think Swalker made a challenge thread about that somewhere...ah yes http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,10602.120.html

"Let me start by saying I have no hate for xbows (ok maybe a little but lets not let that cloud my point).  Archery should be returned to pre-patch levels...we don't want a buff.  I personally know that archery is the hardest major class to play post patch...which is why I can make this challenge.

I am offering 100k in gold to any non-archer main, that rolls an archer alt, and posts a positive kdr by reaching level 31.    Rules:  1.  You can't have an archer main.  2.  You can't create a STF archer.  3.  It must be a pure archer...all wpf's must be 1 except for archery.

*good luck and have fun...and feel free to post your experience(no matter how early you quit) on the forum.

Sincerely,
S. Patrick Walker"

Granted he's talking about people claiming that archery is EZ mode and that was before the arrow changes, but I still find it much harder to have consistently high KDR as archer than as any other melee.