Why is there so much whining in cRPG?

[Rhombeus]

This game is the most frustrating piece of shit ever.  You keep getting killed without you being able to anything. Huge issues get overlooked or accepted. It's the hardest game there is.

I have only been playing this game for 3 months.

It is the hardest battle game I have ever played.

At first I thought it was impossible to play. Then I got a bit better, then a bit more, now I  nearly manage to kill more than I die.
But only after lvl 25 say.

I understand the frustrating comments.

Here is why I love this game and why I feel people moan so much.

After playing games for 25 odd years, I have never played a game where when you are killed it really feels like you have been Killed.
With blade, maces, axes, lances and bows it feels more personal. Getting shot in a game does not feel so personal.

Needless to say this game has ruined it for me playing fps games. I just can't play them anymore.. Guns are for girls lol

[Rhombeus]

I see everyone throwing this one in, but archers are faster than shielders when they hold their shield up. They almost always just run away. Mostly in an outward direction where the cav dominates, and I don't feel like going into the cav alley with my puny 1h. I turn around and he starts shooting me.

I really don't feel like the counter of archers now that I'm a shielder. As a 2h I felt it was easier to kill them, cause they are more compelled to risk their lives for trying to get a few arrows in me. Dodging as a 2h is quite effective and only the best can shoot you down before you reach them. Sure as a shielder I can mess up their game, but killing them, not so much.

As they run away and give you their back, you can pull out an xbow or dart, spear whatever and kill them.
You get a choice of weapons, maybe if people didn't specialise so much they could have a more rounded char??

[Joker86]

I love how you indicate shields are the only weakness archers have without acknowledging that archers are in deseperate need of melee support. How many arrows can you shoot while there is a guy with a spear directly behind you? One if you're lucky. This is the sort of thing i talk about, people make statements that have to do with perceived balance, yet the ignore all sorts of other factors.

Archers weakness is shielders but also, and quite obviously, anyone getting into melee range against them.

Ranged have an advantage at range. Melee  has an advantage in melee- go firgure. To hear some melee talk though you'd think they have no recourse against the horrible archers who are invincible in melee combat and never can be caught or harassed to the point where they can no longer shoot.

Sometimes i feel that i'm playing a different game than some of the people who post.

I love how you indicate that melee spawn right behind enemy archers/have a teleport function.

Most of the time on a server archers will NOT have enemy melee fighters within 10m, which means that most of the time your scenario doesn't apply, which means most of the time the ranged fighter has the upper hand.

It's easy as that: have the best archer and the best pikeman spawn on any map which isn't a maze of backalleys or castle hallways, and in most cases the archer will win. Why? Because there is FIRST the distance, THEN the melee. If at all.

Perhaps we can argument about the definition of "weakness", but there are undenyable facts stating that archers are way more versatile in their choice of targets than melee fighters, and that the survival of archers mainly depends on positioning and awareness against flanking "Ninjas"/cavalry and other archers, while the survival of infantry depends on their skills to block and awareness against... EVERYTHING?

I see everyone throwing this one in, but archers are faster than shielders when they hold their shield up. They almost always just run away. Mostly in an outward direction where the cav dominates, and I don't feel like going into the cav alley with my puny 1h. I turn around and he starts shooting me.

I really don't feel like the counter of archers now that I'm a shielder. As a 2h I felt it was easier to kill them, cause they are more compelled to risk their lives for trying to get a few arrows in me. Dodging as a 2h is quite effective and only the best can shoot you down before you reach them. Sure as a shielder I can mess up their game, but killing them, not so much.

This is just another point how the archer's "weakness" is to be defined: you just can't harm him, because most of the time he can't harm you either.

[Christo]

As they run away and give you their back, you can pull out an xbow or dart, spear whatever and kill them.
You get a choice of weapons, maybe if people didn't specialise so much they could have a more rounded char??

Haha. Were you here at the era where everyone was a hybrid of some-sort?

There was a patch that just gave the finger to specialists. Imagine the battlefield where EVERYONE had a crapton of throwing weapons to backpeddle with (mostly shielders who you couldn't kill even up close), or everyone had an arbalest.

From experience I say that the "lolwearehybrids" era of cRPG was one of the worst.

[Teeth]

Ranged have an advantage at range. Melee  has an advantage in melee- go firgure. To hear some melee talk though you'd think they have no recourse against the horrible archers who are invincible in melee combat and never can be caught or harassed to the point where they can no longer shoot.

Sometimes i feel that i'm playing a different game than some of the people who post.

I have no recourse against the horrible archers who are invincible in melee combat and never can be caught or harassed to the point where they can no longer shoot.

I don't know how things go in battle at the other side of the ocean, but in EU 1, there is almost always a roof that is being camped. Ranged roofcampers exactly fit the above sentence. I do not understand the slightest why ladders haven't been removed from battle.

Also the way things go in EU might be considerably different from the way things go in NA, not every aspect of the game is the same. Like roofcamping for instance, in my roofcamping whine thread I saw a lot of NA that didnt think there was an issue.

[Ylca]

Man i guess all those rounds where i watch as mostly melee/cav duke it out or the lone archer gets run into the ground are flukes then. Who knew that when i played a shielder and laughed as i advanced on archers I was actually one of the most competent shielders in all of CRPG.

[Dexxtaa]

Farmer Nate.

That is all.

[v/onMega]

Whine:

Total lag of "personal component".

You type / whine towards your screen, not to a person in real life.

I want to see Panos whining the way he does online.....in RL...hahaha

Huge difference. Huuuuuuuuge difference.

Gamewhise:

You start playing, you like the game, you are overwhelmed, you take many things as a given fact.

The more you play, the more you are able to determine if things are unbalanced, how balance or gameplay have changed....and most crucial...how things maybe have gone for the worse in your own opinion.

Now, mankind is always the strongest in telling HOW BAD THINGS GO OR WENT FOR HIM....

If u take all this into account, maybe add that people tend to go for easy, temporarily overpowered solutions...you ll get certain groups:

The ones refusing to go for something unbalanced --> whining about it

The ones actually using unbalanced stuff till it gets changed -> the next group to start whining.

A third group that actually is pissed about everything and everybody and forgot why they play the game......or basically is just mentally retarded (maybe as an addition). Constant whine.

Its a circle.
A thing which is living in perfect symbiosis with the on going process of BALANCING.

We all know, there is no perfect balance.

So whine will always be a part...always.

Last but not least there surely is a huuuuuuge part of ppl. you wont see or notice:

Ppl. that quietly enjoy the game and wont get noticed :-)
Humanbeings tend to keep good feelings for themselfs (to busy enjoying mostly)

(Tell 10 ppl. bout something good, maybe 2 will remeber and spread the news

Tell 10 ppl. something that went wrong, they ll spread it 100 times.)


Its just the whine that gets into public, hence this is what you notice...but the situation surely isnt as bad as you could think xD

[Gorath]

One thing I do find funny is how some people *coughGORATHcough* seem to believe that a certain class *coughRANGEDcough* has a certain mentality that is exclusive only to those players *coughPUSSIEScough*.

The truth hurts eh?
However I don't believe it's exclusive, and it's not "pussies" it's "bundle of stickss".  You could at least get it right.   

[Tears of Destiny]

Not adding roman items is a lie.
Last patch added a Eastern Roman Empire (AKA Byzantine if you want to use the out dated term) helmet. We also have an extremely small selection of other gear used by them as well.

The reason why you do not see Classical Roman Empire gear is.... how many times do I have to explain this?
It shows skin.
Think on it.
If someone makes Classical Roman Empire armour, and I put it on my main, due to the way armor is textured, I will have white legs and arms, but a black face and feet and hands. Armor in warband does not overlap your Character body, nor lay on top of it. It replaces it entirely, so if you want the armor to show skin then you have to draw on the skin.

This is the same reason why you do not see Kilts in this game, and never will.

Watch as I will have to repeat this again next month, Like I do every month, to the exact same people...

TL:DR
You don't get the stuff you want because Coding is harder then you think, so shush.

[dreadnok]

Whining happens more when people can't easily change and adapt their build and equipment to what they whine about.

In Native, there is whining about the amount of ranged because some players want to play melee yet it's not optimal, even for them. In cRPG, on top of that you have the char inertia. You can't switch class like in Native, thus the whine is worse.

you cant adapt to bullshit mechanics. christ how many people run around with a polearm, theres a reason. also on native people complain about archers vbecause there machine guns and absolutely silly as shit.

[Tears of Destiny]

As many people run around with a two hander as they do a polearm, counting even cavalry. Server statistics show near identical percentage of kills for both...

How is that making polearms over powered?

Even one handers come very close, which makes sense for balance as they trade offensive power for defensive capabilities.

[Herald_Hardrata]

Not adding roman items is a lie.
Last patch added a Eastern Roman Empire (AKA Byzantine if you want to use the out dated term) helmet. We also have an extremely small selection of other gear used by them as well.

The reason why you do not see Classical Roman Empire gear is.... how many times do I have to explain this?
It shows skin.
Think on it.
If someone makes Classical Roman Empire armour, and I put it on my main, due to the way armor is textured, I will have white legs and arms, but a black face and feet and hands. Armor in warband does not overlap your Character body, nor lay on top of it. It replaces it entirely, so if you want the armor to show skin then you have to draw on the skin.

This is the same reason why you do not see Kilts in this game, and never will.

Watch as I will have to repeat this again next month, Like I do every month, to the exact same people...

TL:DR
You don't get the stuff you want because Coding is harder then you think, so shush.

You can put a black or red linen shirt under the roman armor if it's really a big deal. I'm sure it'd look fine. (add long sleeves, really not that hard a work around...)
http://getasword.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Roman-legions-lorica-segmentata-vs-chain-armor.jpg

It looks like it's already been done anyway. I didn't see any black characters but I'm sure you could make a model option for each skin type, wouldn't be that hard once you have the thing built, just a matter of changing texture colors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w0B2LL6IPA


Considering how big the Byzantine empire was during the middle ages, only having one poorly named helmet that the current patch actually caused to no longer show up is pretty ridiculous. I guess if you count the cataphract horses and some of the generic lammellar armor horses that's a couple more items, but there isn't very much that's actually specifically Byzantine. The Byzantine army was highly advanced, with some of the best military technology and arms until the Ottomans came around, it only makes sense they should be paid more credit considering their role in history.

I'm not familiar with the armor design process for this mod, but I doubt there's any hardcore coding involved. Maybe modifying a few stats in notepad, and working with a 3-D modelling tool (I've used solid works before, so I have a grasp on how those work), but I doubt it's really that complicated, just time consuming.
 

[Leesin]

I would love that. If you want to shoot then go and play Call of Duty, M&B is so special because of its melee system with the speed calculation. Playing Warband to shoot is like playing Serious Sam to sneak around or Splinter Cell to go rampage with the F2000. 

And yes, of course there are a lot of more factors than only those on the paper, but still my point is valid.

Yes, but some have more strengthes and/or less weaknesses than others. This would mean, that two players of totally equal skill but with different classes would have different success. Which must not be.

And don't tell me a skilled pikeman or a thrower can have the same success like a skilled cavalryman, 2-hander or archer. 

How exactly are you determining this success? in my eyes success is when your team wins, not how high your k/d is. As a pikeman, bringing down or halting cavalry is a major part of your job, regardless of what your k/d is, you can still be a very successful pikeman and have a very average k/d.

K/D does not judge how successful everyone is IMO, just because someone on the scoreboard has say a 14-2 score, chances are he would have not got alot of those kills if it wasn't for a team mate or many other factors that are produced by the actions of his team. There are plenty of people who have wounded, trapped, halted other players for them to be killed in the first place.

Same with a thrower, you get cavalry coming to the side of your force, he will avoid the pikes, but once he starts getting heavy throwing axes in his horse it'll either die or he'll retreat, that in my opinion, is success.

[Kafein]

The thing that people forget about counters is that in cRPG they are extremely situational.

When a cav is charging towards an unaware archer, he obviously is the counter to that archer. However, when the cav is 100m away and has no way to reach the archer alive, then the archer is obviously the counter to cav.

The same goes for every class vs any other class.



On another topic, I see Ylca failed to answer my little test with facts from the game.

When the round ends in 2 shielders vs 2 archers, what can happen ?

1° each shielder follows one archer. Each archer shoots the shielder following the other archer. Shielders die.

2° Both shielders concentrate on one archer. As they are slowed down by the shield weight, they can run all they want but they will never force the archers to move somewhere, especially the one they aren't following. Even if both shielders protect each other, the free archer can still come close, aim carefully for the shielder not facing him and bam.