Author Topic: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)  (Read 21010 times)

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Offline PhantomZero

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #75 on: February 01, 2011, 05:30:39 am »
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Giving the Great Lance it's thrust back now that the LoC is gone would go a long way to helping cavalry.

Heavy Cavalry is already really slow and if anything could stand to use an increase. Even though I could afford to use my heavy charger I almost never do because it is just too slow to deal with other cavalry and dodge throwers/arrows/peasants.
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Offline Whalen207

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #76 on: February 01, 2011, 06:20:45 am »
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I say reduce horse upkeep to 3.75% instead of 5%
Either that or reduce base price.
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Offline Beauchamp

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #77 on: February 02, 2011, 12:41:50 am »
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I say reduce horse upkeep to 3.75% instead of 5%
Either that or reduce base price.

nah its ok, at least horses aren't so common
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Offline KaMiKaZe_JoE

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #78 on: February 02, 2011, 01:17:58 am »
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I think a small decrease to horse base price would be nice. 19k gold for a courser is... alot. I can understand horses being expensive, however I would like to point out that my 19k courser gives me far less survivability, utility, and all round bad-assery than a 19k heraldic transitional armor. Had I done the smart thing I would be an infantry tank and get quite a few more kills than with armor of equal price to the horse I use now. The armor doesn't have a chance of dissappearing half way through a round, like my horse does when it's hit in the face with a dart or two.

I buy the horse over the armor because I like riding horsies and being a cavalry asshole.

It just doesn't feel like horses are appropriatly priced. Maybe I'm justa bitch though. 990 upkeep for a single item which can be killed rather easily seems like alot.

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Offline bruce

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #79 on: February 02, 2011, 02:09:21 am »
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I think a small decrease to horse base price would be nice. 19k gold for a courser is... alot. I can understand horses being expensive, however I would like to point out that my 19k courser gives me far less survivability, utility, and all round bad-assery than a 19k heraldic transitional armor. Had I done the smart thing I would be an infantry tank and get quite a few more kills than with armor of equal price to the horse I use now. The armor doesn't have a chance of dissappearing half way through a round, like my horse does when it's hit in the face with a dart or two.

So you think, I bought that 22K plate (2 more armour rating then transitional). It's more or less worthless except vs arrows, you die from two (three at most) throwing projectiles, and sometimes as little as 2 2h sword hits. Basically, minor improvement over 7.7K mail (18 str / 6 IF, not some good for nothing agispammer either).

Horse > armour.
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Offline justme

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #80 on: February 02, 2011, 02:25:06 am »
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why horses dont get damage from charging, at least one that dont have heavy armor? like courser.. if everyone insist on realistic approach..

Offline Snatch

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #81 on: February 07, 2011, 08:28:27 am »
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...but they are also way too controllable.


Nerf:
Maneuverability. A lot. (enough so they can't stop or avoid a correctly timed and drawn pike when at near full speed.)



Wrong, give us more maneuverability. It is far easier to control a horse then you bundle of stickss think.

Case in point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YXusV8q1cI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RzdwAhwgBI&feature=related
and the comments on this one, fuck i don't even know where to begin. Bunch of people talking about dressage.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 08:32:57 am by Snatch »
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Offline zagibu

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #82 on: February 07, 2011, 12:22:52 pm »
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Eh? In this vid, nowhere I see a horse at reasonable speed doing manoeuvers. You really think this prancing around would be useful in battle?

I think the OP suggestion is valid. Give them lots more HP, so they don't die to projectiles so easily, increase the bump damage again, but make them less maneouverable. Could work. Also, I think there should be an X mode for spears that would have to be used to rear horses. Regular thrusts would hurt a horse, but not rear it.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 12:48:01 pm by zagibu »
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Offline Sultan_Khalifa

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #83 on: February 07, 2011, 02:59:44 pm »
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Eh? In this vid, nowhere I see a horse at reasonable speed doing manoeuvers. You really think this prancing around would be useful in battle?

I think the OP suggestion is valid. Give them lots more HP, so they don't die to projectiles so easily, increase the bump damage again, but make them less maneouverable. Could work. Also, I think there should be an X mode for spears that would have to be used to rear horses. Regular thrusts would hurt a horse, but not rear it.

i dont know if u guys are fooling around but have u seen the heavy cav!!!

they have armor they have lots of HP!!!

they are suppose to charge in to formations

light cav was never used to charge and attack troops

light cav is for harrasment

!! just lower the upkeep of heavey cav or at least one of heavey cav so people well use them!!!

u want to make light cav in 2 heavey cav wtf are u thinking!

Offline Patricia

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #84 on: February 07, 2011, 03:01:59 pm »
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yo wtf u tinkin makin hevy hurses so exponsurive?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Offline Leshma

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #85 on: February 07, 2011, 06:09:42 pm »
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His riding skills are exceptional :mrgreen:

Offline Thomek

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #86 on: May 12, 2012, 09:42:25 pm »
-1
Bump.

Time for cav change.
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Offline Joker86

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #87 on: May 12, 2012, 11:04:10 pm »
+2
Bump.

Time for cav change.

I disagree  :P

It's time for an infantry change.

Cavalry is heavily UNDERPOWERED on the paper. The horses are expensive, fragile and there are many mechanics in disadvantage for cav, like the limited attack angles or the increased horse leg damage.

Yet, in reality, cav is massively OVERPOWERED as class. And the explanation is very simple: cav is UP, because if its fought properly it would have no chance to win. The problem is, it's not fought properly, because it's not being fought at all.

90% of all players on the servers act like there was no enemy cavalry. But in fact your first priority target after spawning should be: fight enemy cav! Instead of autowalking towards the enemy, watch out for cav. Instead of shooting into the enemy infantry blob, shoot the horses at the flanks. Instead of running off with your shield and one handed weapon to have fun fighting three enemies at once, stick to teammates with spears. Instead of follwing the first two handed Kuyak wearer to support him with your pike, move along the flanks and the back of your team to form a protection screen against cav with the other pikemen.

Now that we can't expect the common public server lemmings to suddenly grow more clever, you have to do something about it game wise, offering feature which encourage the desired behaviour. As I already proposed, change the mod description, make some good tutorial videos, implement a working commander system, perhaps even change the battle mode to something similar like a conquest mode, so that killing is not the ultimative goal, to cut this suicidal "Enemies! Go a straight line to kill them as fast as possible... all 15 at once!"-behaviour.

Do this, and you won't need to nerf cav any more, if anything you can buff it by buffing armoured horses again and/or lowering upkeep.
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #88 on: May 12, 2012, 11:19:38 pm »
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Yeah suggestions are a bit daft. Besides, charging courser is a bitch to turn out from a sharp object. Unless on a very open map, a full speed courser does not turn on a dime. It sounds as though this thread is purely dealing with the Arabian.

The only way I would support this is if polearms didn't stop a horse. Otherwise the nerfed manoeuvrability would make polearms vs cav way to OP and insta kill every time, regardless of the increased HP. There would also have to be a complete overhaul in the maps in rotation. 90% (shitty village maps ect), would be awful for the changes you are proposing, thus negating an entire class of players for a lot of it. The maps would need to be much more open as a whole to give cavalry a chance of actually doing something as these changes would nerf them insanely on closer/hillier maps.

I love the idea of big cav charges ect. And on paper it sounds great...but that only works with clan organisation. Pubby implementation of these changes would be appalling.

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« Last Edit: May 12, 2012, 11:27:38 pm by Overdriven »

Offline Teeth

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Re: Final Solution for Cavalry. (Make it.. different)
« Reply #89 on: May 12, 2012, 11:43:31 pm »
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Yes, make horses way stronger, but less maneuverable. So its not just about killing the unaware. It gives cav a better change against infantry, but it will require anticipation to succeed. +1