Limit 2 hand swing speed

[Gorath]

Item balance team - go ahead and take 2-3 points of speed and 5-10 points of damage off all the 2handers.

Leave damage where it is.  Hell, leave speed where it is for that matter.  Nothing really needs to be done to 2hers.  The disparity comes from shields, and that's why 1hers are so slow in comparison (and why only the 100+ speed swords really get the most attention from the majority of 1hers to try and overcome this).

IE:  2hers are fine, fix the REAL problem (shields).

[UrLukur]

Leave damage where it is.  Hell, leave speed where it is for that matter.  Nothing really needs to be done to 2hers.  The disparity comes from shields, and that's why 1hers are so slow in comparison (and why only the 100+ speed swords really get the most attention from the majority of 1hers to try and overcome this).

IE:  2hers are fine, fix the REAL problem (shields).

Nah, 2 handers deal too much damage, really. Do greatswords need something over 42 damage to own ? No, 37 would be better.

But yeah, fix the shields.

[Mak33]

A lot of these issues would be corrected if simply chadz would decrease the agility and run speed more, with an increase in weight.  Right now, it doesn't matter if I use leather armor or plate... I still run the same speed and my weapon speed is nearly the same also.  This needs to be fixed.

[Seawied]

Here's the solution:

Give 2handers a really big nerf - reduce speed and damage by a lot. This will solve several problems:

1) People who use 2handers but just spam and can't manual block will stop using them

2) People will stop whining about 2handers for a while

3) People who use 2handers because they enjoy it more than anything else will still use them, and probably still kill all the whiners because the whiners clearly don't know how to use a shield (press the right mouse button and it blocks).

4) This will lead to more fun for people who enjoy playing 2handers, and make the whiners feel like they've won, so next time a 2hand user kills them they can blame something else other than the 2hander weapon stats - maybe they were eating a biscuit and so had a hard time fighting.

Item balance team - go ahead and take 2-3 points of speed and 5-10 points of damage off all the 2handers. It won't make any difference.

You sir, just made my list of "people who couldn't balance a game if their life depended on it."

10 damage nerf on two hands? And then you have the balls to say it won't make any difference? Tell you what, why don't we do a special patch, just for you, where your weapon loses 10 points of damage and see how much of a difference it makes.

BTW: I play all the classes: sword and shield, polearm, archer, throwing. Don't go crying bias to me.

[Ganon]

Playing a 2h is already hard enough. They only get on the top of the scoreboard if you don't know how to kill them. When i have a 2h or a polearm spammer on the opposing team killing half my team i go and kill him, if i have a shield i engage him and lure him into others (he can block only 1 attack at a time, noobs! just hit him with 2 attacks and he's dead), if i'm using a thrower he's dead meat (i will follow him and as soon as he stops i start throwing), if i use a 2h i charge into him and duel him, even if i lose i normally get at least 1 shot off (which means he has less than half hp left).

Some 2h spammers are crazy, so a speedcap can be acceptable, for all weapons (1h, 2h or polearm alike). This is what you see in most games for balance, no matter what you do, you cannot swing faster than the cap. So i can agree with the OP but not with all the shit people have suggested later.

[Baldr]

I play a 1h/shield, a Heavy Broad One Handed Battle Axe (Will heirloom it to maximum if I can) Huscarl's Round Shield. I am pretty good, there are alot better then me  but I am not a pushover if you know what I mean, usually top 5 on the score board and my styler is usually fighting 3-4 people at the time as it is easier for me to handle crowd control then 1v1.

1h/shield is very simple and at the same time very hard. You can block by hitting RMB, sure easy enough. but then --->PURE<--- 2h and 2hpole has on occasion spammed me so fast that I could not strike back, I know my build, I know the foot work and the range of my VS most other (popular) weapons and I do not suck. A skilled (not a super duper grinder with a laser guided homing 2h) 2h will always beat me 7 times out of 10. Why? because they block until they break my shield and then kill me (2-3 hits) when I am stun locked... and no you can not remove or drop your shield because it takes 1 sec, 1 sec means you get hit.

2h and 2h pole should have increased DMG and (pole more then 2h) and be slower.

Watch Zengrim or Gnjus if you want to see really good 1h/shield guys, there are allot more but I'm off now =P

[Waffle]

Imo u lot just need to practice more. before just retiring i had 7 ath 5 ps and 140 2 hander with a katana and was still getting beat by shielders with 1 handers, but able to beat other 2 handers, maybe thats because i need to practice at "spamming" if thats wat u want to call, it in my view its called aggresive attacking, but thats just my view of it
x

[LittleJustin]

It's funny because almost all the people I see topping the leaderboards are 1h+shield users ie Guard Cain, Balb, Dan_ATS etc etc

[UrLukur]

Playing a 2h is already hard enough. They only get on the top of the scoreboard if you don't know how to kill them. When i have a 2h or a polearm spammer on the opposing team killing half my team i go and kill him, if i have a shield i engage him and lure him into others (he can block only 1 attack at a time, noobs! just hit him with 2 attacks and he's dead), if i'm using a thrower he's dead meat (i will follow him and as soon as he stops i start throwing), if i use a 2h i charge into him and duel him, even if i lose i normally get at least 1 shot off (which means he has less than half hp left).

Some 2h spammers are crazy, so a speedcap can be acceptable, for all weapons (1h, 2h or polearm alike). This is what you see in most games for balance, no matter what you do, you cannot swing faster than the cap. So i can agree with the OP but not with all the shit people have suggested later.

Phyrex, Cyber, Bjord, Siiem ? Don'y you see them at the top ? Wow.

[Ninja_Totoro]

Phyrex, Cyber, Bjord, Siiem ? Don'y you see them at the top ? Wow.

They are people who are naturally good, they use their builds to their talents and not as crutch.

They can block so why not play 2hander? They would dominate just as much with 1hander, polearms, cav.

[UrLukur]

They are people who are naturally good, they use their builds to their talents and not as crutch.

They can block so why not play 2hander? They would dominate just as much with 1hander, polearms, cav.

Neither Cyber nor Bjord don't dominate as 1h. I didn't seen Siiem and Phyrex as 1h. Siiem did just fine as 2h polearm (and cav), but this class is not really that different from 2h.

[IG_Saint]

Neither Cyber nor Bjord don't dominate as 1h. I didn't seen Siiem and Phyrex as 1h. Siiem did just fine as 2h polearm (and cav), but this class is not really that different from 2h.

You know that fencer is (was?) bjord's 1h alt? Never saw him on a battle server but on the duel server he did just fine. And what about paul, me, you, some of the mercs who's names I forget. All capable of topping scoreboards as 1hs.

[Cyber]

IMO 2hander dosen't  need a nerf. If anything does it's shields, i personally manage to top scoreboards with 1h/shield all the time. Really, It is a lot easier to face multiple enemies with shield, you dont have to worry about manual blocking (some players would be absoloutely useless without shields) and you can just laugh at projectiles. Really, in the battle these things outweigh more dmg, speed and reach.

[UrLukur]

You know that fencer is (was?) bjord's 1h alt? Never saw him on a battle server but on the duel server he did just fine. And what about paul, me, you, some of the mercs who's names I forget. All capable of topping scoreboards as 1hs.

Yes i know, he didn't dominated battle. Urist do fine with everything, you did fine before patch, i don't recall playing with you post patch, really. I don't top scoreboard all the time, yes, quite often, but even less often than i did in Native. Some merc top it from time to time, there are many other 1h users who do it.

Well, the point of post tortoro  replied to was to show that many 2h user top the scoreboard. Like many throwers, polearms, cavalry, archers and xbow (least often, i didn't seen many xbow oriented builds lately).

IMO 2hander dosen't  need a nerf. If anything does it's shields, i personally manage to top scoreboards with 1h/shield all the time. Really, It is a lot easier to face multiple enemies with shield, you dont have to worry about manual blocking (some players would be absoloutely useless without shields) and you can just laugh at projectiles. Really, in the battle these things outweigh more dmg, speed and reach.

Shields don't need a nerf, they need change. I would love to see manual block (combined with blocking with mesh, like on left/right swings blocked by opposite block with good footwork) for them. It's stupid that it blocks everything, and getting rusty with manual block when using shield that don't break hurts and make me sad. Also i would love to have lesser range, damage and speed gap, so i can feint freely against 2h and Poles.

[IG_Saint]

IMO 2hander dosen't  need a nerf. If anything does it's shields, i personally manage to top scoreboards with 1h/shield all the time. Really, It is a lot easier to face multiple enemies with shield, you dont have to worry about manual blocking (some players would be absoloutely useless without shields) and you can just laugh at projectiles.  Really, in the battle these things outweigh more dmg, speed and reach.

Back when everyone had plate and ridiculous amounts of wpf/agi it was the other way around, with a 2h being far more usefull than 1h+shield. These days with the upkeep, the lighter armours and the sheer amount of crap flying through the air 1H+shield is a far beter option for battle. Just like native 

Yes i know, he didn't dominated battle. Urist do fine with everything, you did fine before patch, i don't recall playing with you post patch, really. I don't top scoreboard all the time, yes, quite often, but even less often than i did in Native. Some merc top it from time to time, there are many other 1h users who do it.

Well, the point of post tortoro  replied to was to show that many 2h user top the scoreboard. Like many throwers, polearms, cavalry, archers and xbow (least often, i didn't seen many xbow oriented builds lately).

Shields don't need a nerf, they need change. I would love to see manual block (combined with blocking with mesh, like on left/right swings blocked by opposite block with good footwork) for them. It's stupid that it blocks everything, and getting rusty with manual block when using shield that don't break hurts and make me sad. Also i would love to have lesser range, damage and speed gap, so i can feint freely against 2h and Poles.

Aha, seems I misunderstood you, but yeah, any class is capable of topping boards, just depends on who's playing. I too would like to see some changes to shield mechanics, but I doubt the cRPG team will be able to pull that off.