While you are making liberal use of hyperbole, crossbows definitely need a good whack with the nerf bat. Something is certainly off when my sword and shield/cross hybrid is more accurate and deals comparable damage to my archer character.Your archer will shoot 10 arrows in the same amount of time in which your cross hybrid reloads his hunting crossbow.
Your archer will shoot 10 arrows in the same amount of time in which your cross hybrid reloads his hunting crossbow.
Should I conform or not?
Why should a two hander/polearm in tin can armor be able to use a sniper gun that one hit kills you sometimes through your shield?
Is this balanced?
This crossbow hybrid shit is getting old fast. Please do something about it.
have to wait 3 min for the last xbow hybrids to finish up their ammo before the game can continue its rather slightly retarded :lol:
and wait for a second.Unfortunately there's a timer in the game which actually makes this more advantageous for the ranged guys you're hiding from as the MoF flags will draw you out into their fire eventually, or you'll just lose because the other team gets the flags while you are hiding.
Where are your teammates? Why aren't you forming plans with them and striking together?
Because everyone that isn't in the same voice chat with you is a flaming retard and is to be treated as such.
While you are making liberal use of hyperbole, crossbows definitely need a good whack with the nerf bat. Something is certainly off when my sword and shield/cross hybrid is more accurate and deals comparable damage to my archer character.
just make it so that they have to spent wpf points to use em end of story no more full ranged battle servers
just make it so that they have to spent wpf points to use em end of story no more full ranged battle servers
If they did this they would have to implement the same system for all melee weapons as well, which i doubt people would like once they found they suddenly can no longer build anything approaching a workable hybrid.
Why? I didn't realise people were using melee weapons overmuch.
If they did this they would have to implement the same system for all melee weapons as well, which i doubt people would like once they found they suddenly can no longer build anything approaching a workable hybrid.
The crossbow is relatively inaccurate
Go ahead i dont mind wouldnt change anything for me or anyone else other than the people who insist on carrying their xbows in battle..
just make it so that they have to spent wpf points to use em end of story no more full ranged battle servers
If they did this they would have to implement the same system for all melee weapons as well, which i doubt people would like once they found they suddenly can no longer build anything approaching a workable hybrid.
While EyeBeatWomen may be exaggerating a little I actually found myself going to the siege server this weekend to escape all the ranged weapons on the battle servers. For whatever reason there has been a definite swing towards more ranged
Maybe add more reload time to the lighter xbows, as that is supposed to be their, basically, only drawback.That would be the death of the lower tier crossbows. You already have to sit defenseless with your ass in the air for 3~ seconds to reload, any more would be absolutely fatal to them. Best suggestion I've seen is a wpf limitation on them, so that you have to sacrifice your ability to melee a bit to have a crossbow, and there would be no more 1 wpf superstars (which is overblown anyways, with 1 wpf you can't hit anyone more than 20 feet away from you with any reliability at all).
with 1 wpf you can't hit anyone more than 20 feet
That would be the death of the lower tier crossbows. You already have to sit defenseless with your ass in the air for 3~ seconds to reload,
If the perception is that anyone who isn't in TS isn't worth working with, and teams who do form squads and work together consistently get multipliers, it seems that there isn't much of a problem at all.
Exactly. The people stacking multipliers all day long are the clans (and friends) sitting in VoiP rolling over pubbies. This is how it should be. Period.
However, that is why people aren't with teammates saying "Ok you worthless shielder my old friend. Protect us 2h/PA players from everything until we get close enough to kill the entire team. You, bowmy old friend and throwmo's, shoot the enemy cav so we can mop them up as well. Stop being lamers and do your job."
While that is exaggerated the point remains.
While EyeBeatWomen may be exaggerating a little I actually found myself going to the siege server this weekend to escape all the ranged weapons on the battle servers. For whatever reason there has been a definite swing towards more ranged
I stick with the opinion that people don't work together enough. It's why whole teams get destroyed on plains by cav. It's why the team with the most tanks win on that tight, claustraphobic street map. When the Sea Raiders form a squad, they can plough through enemy infantry on most maps. I can say the same for the clan formerly knowns as the my old friend, and the Mercs. Most other players only think about themselves, their k/d their xp, their gold, and being able to kill everyone else single-handedly. I don't think balance is inherently a problem with stats of weapons, or their possible roles, I think it is a problem with the mindset of the players.
I know it sucks that I might have a point and some people might actually agree with me because I am LLJK or whatever. HURF DURF OMG A TROLL.
... you see its comments like that which give a LLJK its troll reputation.
I stick with the opinion that people don't work together enough. It's why whole teams get destroyed on plains by cav. It's why the team with the most tanks win on that tight, claustraphobic street map. When the Sea Raiders form a squad, they can plough through enemy infantry on most maps. I can say the same for the clan formerly knowns as the my old friend, and the Mercs. Most other players only think about themselves, their k/d their xp, their gold, and being able to kill everyone else single-handedly. I don't think balance is inherently a problem with stats of weapons, or their possible roles, I think it is a problem with the mindset of the players.
:wink: Ylca, your last post just goes to show that you didn't even read the entire thread. Thanks for playing though!
Redacted, as Seawied is a super classy gentleman.
Just as long as they don't apply that god awful wpf restriction thing to xbows. Just make it effect accuracy in an actual curve. Done. Currently xbow accuracy is almost exactly the same from 0-100wpf and then it starts to go up. And the accuracy isn't even bad at 0. In fact it's good. Better then any throwing weapon at 130 throwing wpf, and better then a lot of bow accuracy too. It doesn't make sense for it to start that good with no investment.I am a thrower this gen and I find it easier to hit with the light crossbow with 0wpf than with throwing weapons at just over 100 wpf. But what I am not taking into account is the fact that I am moving when I throw, thus decreasing the accuracy of my weapon. I can aim fairly well when throwing from a standstill. This needs to be remembered when comparing throwing weapons and crossbows.
As far as I know not all these factors have been taken into consideration on this thread.
What you all fail to comprehend is that every logical argument and sollution put forward here will be ignored.
The Xbows doged a nerf last patch with throwing which actually required investment. Throwing now has wpf requirement also.
Why doesnt xbow?
IRC lobbyists. End of.
Exploding bolts next patch.
Exploding bolts next patch.
Honestly, I don't think crossbows are unbalanced or overpowered at all. I just think the fact that everyone is using one is making the game a lot less fun.
Crossbows are great right now because they are a huge gold sink. People want to bring one, because it's fun to have something to do before you engage in the melee, but they are only useful for killing stupid/stationary/naked people. But this fun factor is worth the upkeep to a lot of people.I'd rather face someone in the same armour as me with a crossbow than a plated dude without. I'd feel like I have a better chance dodging crossbow bolts than getting consistent solid, non-glancing hits on a tincan. Die-hard lobbyist? :P Oh noes I've been seen through!
Would you rather everyone that carries a crossbow+medium armor stop carrying a crossbow but use their gold to wear plate instead? Plate ruins the fun a lot more than crossbows do.
Adding 20-40-60-80-100 WPF will change nothing. It's very easy to get 100~ wpf. This has nothing to do with crossbows specifically. People want a range side arm, because they feel frustrated when someone shoots at them (or lances) and they can do Nothing about it. Nerf low tier xbows and people will get some other ranged instead. I have no solution, but nerfing something that's actually reasonably balanced just seems dumb.pretty much this.
Adding 20-40-60-80-100 WPF will change nothing. It's very easy to get 100~ wpf. This has nothing to do with crossbows specifically. People want a range side arm, because they feel frustrated when someone shoots at them (or lances) and they can do Nothing about it. Nerf low tier xbows and people will get some other ranged instead. I have no solution, but nerfing something that's actually reasonably balanced just seems dumb.
Hmn and why are we suddenly trying to derail the thread about people wearing plate armor instead of xbows?? when the hell did this happen?? lasttime i checked the normal xbow cost 10k wich is hardly no where near the price of plate armor..Instead of wearing transitional armor and carrying an xbow+bolts (roughly 30k) they could just be wearing milanese plate instead (roughly 30k).
Instead of wearing transitional armor and carrying an xbow+bolts (roughly 30k) they could just be wearing milanese plate instead (roughly 30k).
I've gotten many kills with a zero wpf crossbow at a good distance further than shotgunning range. Right now I could get an arbalest or heavy crossbow and go on to a battle server and wait for sucker cavalry to come at me then down either their horse or them in one shot when they get close. No other weapon is THAT effective with zero investment. I can't pick up a 1h, 2h,pole, bow, or throwing weapon with no skills invested and expect anything other than total failure with the extremely low low change of success. Crossbow doesn't follow that simple principle that all the other weaps do. I agree with your new wpf suggestion though. Seems like a reasonable effectiveness curve though the exact numbers may need adjustment. I'd go for 140+ wpf = Annie Oakley since crossbows really should never be super pinpoint accurate.
Who cares ? its not like its a huge advantage gettin a shitload of your wpf removed and being slow as a snail hardly any1 will use that anyway
Wouldn't even be surprised if it happens....
X-bow users should be limited to 1 handed weapons. If they want a shield too, it should be a 0 slot 1 hander :idea:
xbows cost any skill points? Bows need like 7pd to deal crazy damg like your xbow
do you even need wpf to use it at all? bows need like 100wpf+ to even get ok aim... your xbow has better aim at 0wpf then my long bow at 126wpf....
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its is op because anyone can pick it up and 1 shot people... Great range weapon for no trade off...
The whole idea with xbows is that they are less then an investment then Bows, especially the low tier ones. I don't see how you could change this without making them compete with bows (dedicated xbowers with loomed arbalests certainly can, but not in an unbalanced fashion).
Yeah, honestly there isn't any "nerf xbows" discussion here. The people who are actually good at, and want to use xbows will have more then 100 wpf in them anyway. Changing it so that wpf actually matters wont effect anyone but the people trying to use it as a free shotgun before jumping in to helicopter around.
Intardasting:Yah LOL at throwing, good job nerffing it to shit. Its really funny :rolleyes:
Kills
[15:07] <Fasader> last week on EU1,2,5
[15:08] <Fasader> One handed: 38369 (20.60%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Two handed: 72257 (38.79%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Polearms: 42647 (22.90%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Bow: 15466 (8.30%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Crossbows: 8220 (4.41%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Thrown: 1042 (0.56%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Headshot: 7221 (3.88%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Others: 1048 (0.56%)
Those 80% are pretty bad at using their xbows. Also lol at thrown.
Yah LOL at throwing, good job nerffing it to shit. Its really funny :rolleyes:Actually after my build "maturing" I find I can get a few kills here and there with throwing daggers and wardarts. If I really hunt peasants I can get stone kills :mrgreen:. Throwing got nerfed pretty hard, but it isn't unplayable. Much like being an archer, you have to wait for the skills to get the kills, but I must say it is pretty fun.
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This is my 2xheirloomed longbow at 130 wpf and 8pd. This is my MasterWork light xbow wat 0wpf and no PD(it is a skill-less weapon)
master work long bow dose about 36p base damg (i had to get 0melee and converted all skill into Attributes to even weild it) Master work light xbow deals 68p base damg, no converted points.I had like 9ps/9if/3ath/3wm/3 ride 130 wpf melee and 0wpf xbow
Intardasting:
Kills
[15:07] <Fasader> last week on EU1,2,5
[15:08] <Fasader> One handed: 38369 (20.60%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Two handed: 72257 (38.79%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Polearms: 42647 (22.90%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Bow: 15466 (8.30%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Crossbows: 8220 (4.41%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Thrown: 1042 (0.56%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Headshot: 7221 (3.88%)
[15:08] <Fasader> Others: 1048 (0.56%)
Those 80% are pretty bad at using their xbows. Also lol at thrown.
What you incompetent devs fail to see is that out of the 8220 xbow kills maybe only 2000 of less of em are from dedicated xbow users the rest of kills goes to boost the kdr of the polearm/2h/1h users using it as sidearm..... also does the headshot % goes under bows thrown and xbow statistic?
Also this still doenst justify for the easy use of the xbow and no skill investment.. plus the amount of ranged on the servers doenst rly add to the fun...
But nonetheless its clear that the devs use xbow em self as sidearm so i guess further complaints are useless
Crossbows are and were easy to use. I like the idea suggested by Paul elsewhere, increasing the upkeep of crossbows dependant on the characters proficiency. Crossbows are and were expensive contraptions. This suggestion simulates a dedicated crossbowman's ability to service his weapon, with the added accuracy and reload speed which sets him apart from a character with no proficiency. In essence it would be desirable that a character with no proficiency would struggle to ever make a profit while using a crossbow.
The small effectiveness with 1 proficiency I feel is conducive to reality and more importantly - to strategus. Particularly in sieges where melee characters will be able to contribute instead of standing around like muppets.
I'm part of the problem.
So 80% of the players are spending ~30% of their upkeep and 50% of their slots on a weapon that yields 5% of the kills.this.
To be fair, the 5% statistic is from a European server. The few times I've actually played there, I've found that the number of crossbows is simply miniscule compared to North America (and the OP is from NA, after all.) The last time I was on Blackrose in Texas, I counted 18 out of the 21 players were carrying either a bow or crossbow.
Even if you added wpp requirement to xbows, how hard is it to hybrid.. Most only go for about 130, 140 max in their primary weapon and will still have enough left over to put 100 into xbows and there we go same problem that you're describing except now they're more accurate and have 5-10 less wpp in their primary weapon.. Big woop? what exactly does this accomplish.... lol xD
just my 2 cents.
Just my 2 cents....
2 cents ain't worth anything... just like youropinionsposts.
Small edit there, making it less rude