I`ve adressed the matter in the past, but looks like it got buried.
Since agility builds got buffed, a LOT, it would be only fair to increase the strenght requirments of medium/heavy armours.
For example, a player with a 15/27 build, can run around dressed in plate armour, but still being fast and agile at the same time.
What I suggest is this.
Armours from 12kg up to 16kg, should get a +2 Strenght requirement
Armours from 16.1kg up to 21kg, should get a +3 Strenght requirement
And
Armours from 21.1kg up to 27.8 (last armour)kg, should get a +7 Strength requirement.
Discuss.
For example, a player with a 15/27 build, can run around dressed in plate armour, but still being fast and agile at the same time.Haha
Haha
Maybe increasing str requirements max by 3 would be ok, but any more will remove heavy armour from the game so only focused str builds can use it. And after the cav patch, we all have more agi now so adding more str requirements will mean peasants on top of horses which is stupid as well as not remotely historically accurate.
Armours from 21.1kg up to 27.8 (last armour)kg, should get a +7 Strength requirement.No, +7 is ridiculously too much.
The suggestion is good, but the difficulty should only be raised by [your_STR_value - your_armours_difficulty], otherwise it would be too much.
i'd like more a +3/4 max.
If u need 20 for a plate u can't do a 18/24 anymore, at least at same level before, or without loosing skillpoints anywhere. Anyway, i agree with the concept itself, than u can balance it more or less strictly
Here we go again. Do you really think people are seriously butthurt by -'ing a post? Looks more like you are butthurt by a minus on your well constructed thread.
15 str should be enough for mid tier armors though, maybe 18 for the better tiers.
With three point increase gothic plate would be 18 and Churburgs 17. Those are still "full plate". Even with four point increase 18/24 could run in a churburg. That's why I think 6 points would be better for the heaviest armors if we actually want to change anything and not just break a few str/armor combos like what Hate More is using.Then go for +4 difficulty, even if i disagree with your point. (the very last plates will be at 19-20 str)
If you add even more STR requirement you can say good bye to the class "Heavy knight / cavalry"
And it's something i don't want.
I like watching heavy knights riding on their shiny horses. (Remember The heavy Medieval French Cavalry !)
Laugh all you want, but we both know that it`s retarded when a player can run around with a lordly Varangopoulos armour with only 15 STR.
EDIT :
SPEAK OF THE DEVIL, AND THE DEVIL WILL SHOW :lol:
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Please tell me gravoth, if you believe that plating with an agility build is retarded, why do you seem so butthurt by my suggestion?
Besides, an increase to armour requirements, will speed up the battle time, since most will die easier.
I could not care less about renowing, I leave that to leshma.
The guy with the Varangopoulos armour is Gravoth, if you don`t know, he claims that playing with a plate and an agility build is retarded because you lose all the benefits of the agility, yet most of the time he runs around with his PLATE armour :lol:
Didnt i already tell you my opinion about 5 times in the last thread? I said that using plate with agi builds is shit, nobody uses it and so theres no reason to nerf it. STR builds are superior at using plate.
So now you are makig a double thread since you think suggestion corner isn't enough already?
I play high agi and playing with high armour indeed makes me survive longer, but I fuck up the whole point of my build: speed.
Oh wait, wasn't that already said a thousand times in your thread? Hurrdurr I played an 18/21 build and that's an agiwhore build, I know everything of agiwhoring now, balanced builds don't exist. Hurr durr.
Also, especially with the current cav nerf you would only see peasants on heavy horses. But ueah, that's exactly what you want right? Funneling everybody into either str or agi?
When you need multiple hits to kill me in medium armour, it doesn't mean it's OP. It just means your footwork sucks balls. Nice how you want everything that kills you to be nerfed, because you obviously are pro and play the only acceptable classes. (except when you want to 'try it out')
Yet you use your varangopoulos armour :lol:
But still, if its so shit, why do you lobby against it?
Shady aint it?
Also No Rules, when I was playing 2h and as a lancer, you didnt even know what c-rpg is.
For the last 2 years my build is 18.24, you moron.
You and Gravoth set a new bar to stupidity, both claim that agi plating is shit, yet you use it :lol:
Also No Rules, when I was playing 2h and as a lancer, you didnt even know what c-rpg is.
For the last 2 years my build is 18.24, you moron.
You and Gravoth set a new bar to stupidity, both claim that agi plating is shit, yet you use it :lol:
PLEASE, LET AGILITY WHORES BE ABLE TO SPAM, BE FAST AND TANKY AT THE SAME TIME
You're missing my point. Now please try to get what I mean, for I'm being serious right now.
So now you are making a double thread since you think suggestion corner isn't enough already?I already took up pages 12-16 in that thread, just to explain why I was against it. I don't think I got my point across though.
What's up with everyone being so chocolate chip cookie about agi builds being able to wear plate? What the fuck?Within reason, and of course I think this is one such place that certainly is.
If you think they are OP, then nerf it. Increase the effect that weight has on movement or whatever, don't restrict items usage. Dafuq.
The real problem is that they still faster than str player in same armor.Wow, so OP, agi builds are faster than str builds, nerf them now!
Character with: 5 ath and 139 wpf + plated armor = have 80 - 85 effective wpf and is really slowOh my god what a shitty reasoning.
Character with: 8 ath and 184 wpf + plated armor = have 130 - 135 effective wpf and is much faster
This need to be changed. Both builds suffer from the same wpf penalty, but it have much worse impact on str build.
Tydeus that would nerf anyone using heavy armour right? Sure because they lose high % agi would lose more, but seems kind of excessive when heavy armour is already kind of mediocreThat's what the "arbitrary amount" was for. Who gets affected would depend entirely upon that number. At 120, no one with 120 or less wpf would see even a slight wpf reduction(compared to what they already get), but at 200 wpf base, they'd receive an additional 8% reduction. Change it to 150, and if you're a hybrid with 150/150 wpf split, you wouldn't receive any additional penalties, and the 200 wpf guy would receive a 5% penalty.
What do people want to nerf about heavy armour? If its not to do with their attack speed I don't see why to nerf like that
So, more i read about this, more i'm thinking we want to try "balancing" but in fact, we close what made this mod original : The diversity of builds.To be honest, I don't really think str vs agi is poorly balanced at the minute. I think it's fairly good. Also, just because something is balanced, doesn't necessarily mean you have to sacrifice diversity. It's just that sacrificing diversity is one of the easiest ways to accomplish that.
You want something balance ? => What about Native ?
(click to show/hide)
I didn't quite read Tydeus' posts thoroughly, but ... wpf ... the amount of wpf you have under a ...
or Panos just doesn't realise that actually average agi build has around 20% less hp than average str build, which isn't a big difference.
Take a 15/24 agi build with 0 IF, you get 50 HP.Take 18/24 lvl 34 and 24/18 same level (maxed IF) and you get 65hp vs 75hp. I gave the estimated number of 20% cuz builds vary depending on level and agi/str-whoreness
Opposite str build 24/15 with max IF, you get 75 HP, 50% more than the agi build (33% if you count it backwards). Within usual armor values this means between 2 and 4 more hits to kill, which is a huge difference in lifetime.
Take 18/24 lvl 34 and 24/18 same level (maxed IF) and you get 65hp vs 75hp. I gave the estimated number of 20% cuz builds vary depending on level and agi/str-whorenessExcept the agi guy is more likely to sacrifice IF for WM than the str guy is. Most people don't have enough skill points to max all of their main skills, which means things have to be sacrificed. With a level 30 build, you have to make sacrifices even with a low conversion 18/21 build. Either Panos and such people are essentially complaining about level 35+ guys who can max everything, or their complaint is with the extremes. The initial cannot be addressed without greatly harming players who continue to retire and the latter would seem to make your comparison irrelevant.
Except the agi guy is more likely to sacrifice IF for WM than the str guy is. Most people don't have enough skill points to max all of their main skills, which means things have to be sacrificed. With a level 30 build, you have to make sacrifices even with a low conversion 18/21 build. Either Panos and such people are essentially complaining about level 35+ guys who can max everything, or their complaint is with the extremes. The initial cannot be addressed without greatly harming players who continue to retire and the latter would seem to make your comparison irrelevant.
Agi + heavy armor is great when the whole server is wearing similarly heavy armor. In most other cases, it's stilll good, but lighter armors are probably equally to slightly more effective most of the way down in most scenarios.
I had something where armor looms were changed so that light gear had decreased weight and heavy gear increased weight but gave you more armor. Gloves were also adjusted so that light gloves gave less armor and weight while heavy gloves gave around the same armor but with a hefty weight penalty.
Finally, difficulties were scaled down from 24 for body armors and 21 for the other equipment, mostly decreasing by 2 at every difficulty decrease (gloves received +2-3 with the same scaling since the scaling is good already). Milanese: 24, Churburg: 20, coat of plates: 18, etc. That particular scaling would allow the use of most armor while also giving the strength builds some exclusivity with the best heavy armors.(click to show/hide)
Higher difficulty is pretty much shut down at this point based on the current votes, but difficulty was a separate vote from the loom values. Even without the difficulty increases, the way the stats would work would give more intrinsic penalties/benefits, allowing a person to choose between movement speed or wpf penalties. At the same weight, the average armor would be lower by a few points, while the extremes would be compensated with the appropriate cost.
I think it's something between the former and the latter. EU is filled with high levels + Panos tends to get a specific point of view and stick to it for a long time instead of analysing if he isn't making any mistakes himself. Probably a few good holds, a change in damage type or something else could help him, dunno.Perhaps. If that's the case, then I think raising armor difficulties would most certainly go overboard.
and nerf loomed armor (or at least buff unloomed armors); you can't get +10 body armor and weight 5/6 less, it's bullshit.Indeed, but figuring out the most appropriate change, rather than just saying "You now have less armor, nothing else has changed", isn't quite so straightforward.
Lets all be 9/30 and spam katanas what fun