I'm struggling to work out what was done to "undo" the weight change, I know I was out of the game for a little while due to Uni but I'm pretty sure all that was changed was that wpf was linked to agility with a rework. That doesn't allow archers to run faster, the only thing I can see there is that more archers opted out of higher PD builds (because their wpf couldn't handle it) and therefore became a little faster having added to agility instead, and probably athletics too.
Please someone fill me in if there was a change that I didn't notice! :)
However, being back in the game, I don't think it would be wise at this time to respec to an archer.
It pains me to say this, but we're officially back to the dark days of OP-archers!
The smaller bows got a huge buff in missile speed, plus the wpf rework you already mentioned, plus the unloomed bow buff. Also melee has been gradually getting less effective due to skill and nerfs on melee weapons.
but they have their most despicable ability returned to them - kiting! KITING!
The smaller bows got a huge buff in missile speed, plus the wpf rework you already mentioned, plus the unloomed bow buff.
Who is able to kite?
I have lvl 35 18/27 with 9 ATH and i'm not able to kite. Lots of ppl are able to catch me, shielders agi guys and STF char made for hunting archers are killing me (unless i kill them first).
Only thing that makes me getting good score most of rounds is my experience as an archer and my kind of OP lvl 35 char.
If you want to respec to an archer feel free, but pls tell me what equipment you will use and what time and what servers are you playing. I'll have then next target to practice shooting :twisted:
Are you people honestly telling me you can survive 2 archers focusing on you?
I think ive read that ranged will get a dmg nerf vs armor and speed bonus removed/reduced so if u respec and trade all ur stuff for archer gear a patch like that is surely around the corner :)
The smaller bows got a huge buff in missile speed
The effectiveness of a shield against ranged:(click to show/hide)
Adapt, identify new ways of surviving. or forever follow a path of meaningless deaths.
obviously someone is not playing this mod for very long... in the old times, I had warbow, 2 quivers of bodkins AND a 2h claymore in my backpocket. Plus archers did decent damage back then. They were way more annoying, and there was WAY less whining. Strange, huh?
Only in the dark middle ages of c-rpg archery was nerfed to oblivion thanks to constant whining of melee nubs.
The come back is well deserved and would not be a problem without every idiot hopping on their archer alt right now to circle-feed their own rage about archers... LOL
...oh, and nerf xbows already, half of the melee nubs can't tell the difference between an arrow and a bolt and blame archers for everything...
You people used used to complain all the time about how op loomed ranged was, so the devs leveled the plain.
Revert then?
Are you people honestly telling me you can survive 2 archers focusing on you?
BTW I have a 2h alt and played as cav for 3 gen. Don't get on my case for using a shield Kafein, I don't talk about you running naked on EU2 (farming gold = not contributing = leeching, imho) all the time.
The come back is well deserved and would not be a problem without every idiot hopping on their archer alt right now to circle-feed their own rage about archers... LOL
The effectiveness of a shield against ranged:(click to show/hide)
Shielder has no such weaknesses, it's a manly class for manly men who are afraid ofnothingeverything.
adapt a teamwork lol get tactics shield
Also never seen this guy without a shield
Well... It might be just a different approach to understanding what "being afraid" means, Adamar.
I assume that I should be afraid of ranged because I don't have a shield.
You assume that you are not afraid of ranged and therefore don't have a shield.
The difference in this example is that you die and I don't.
Thedric's experience does not fit my opinion of the game, therefore he must be bad
I've talked multiple times about restricting STF from certain classes except on the duel server, but these nerds want to both bitch about the amount of ranged and yet still demand that anyone can instantly roll a Level 30 archer on battle and siege to troll the shit out of them with. They are getting exactly what they are demanding, but still feel entitled to demand that the class be nerfed until useless.
I'd say shielders main threat is cav and crushtrough weapons (which anybody barely uses anymore)
With the recent buffs to 1h wepons and shields and the ranged situation on EU servers I'd say this is currently the class to go to and it shows, there have never been so much shielders, but I guess some ppl are never satisfied and will push and lobby their class forever.
Shielders including Thedric are fine in melee. If you can block, the shield is probably an encumbrance most of the time but it has important uses. The area where shielders are lacking with respect that what they should be able to do is against ranged. Isn't it strange that we never see any complaints from archers and crossbowmen saying that shielders and cav are too effective at taking them out ? Yeah, because they really aren't.
Though when you see a shielder bitching about ranged, when he's standing on high ground, on a stair, only one things comes to mind... l2p...
I'd say shielders main threat is cav and crushtrough weapons (which anybody barely uses anymore)
With the recent buffs to 1h wepons and shields and the ranged situation on EU servers I'd say this is currently the class to go to and it shows, there have never been so much shielders, but I guess some ppl are never satisfied and will push and lobby their class forever.
Mad cuz bad.I don't know when you played shielder, but it must have been a long time ago. Too long ago. I've played all the maps on EU2, multiple times, so I know most of the spots ranged prefer. So, just my experience probably makes me more aware of archers than most. I'd very much like to know though how you managed to be aware of archers hiding behind every structure on EU2 while still being effective in combat? I think I know the answer to that, but unfortunately for me I don't have a bunch of Druzhina minions covering my back at all times, so I have to do most of the hard work myself.
I've played shielder for quite a long time, including the time after all the "archer buffs". And I wasn't some archer-hunting agi-freak, the whole time I played I had 24-18 build (for high lvl).
Shielder is totally fine. Playing shielder is the best way to feel safe, controlling the situation, not being vulnerable to anything. I mean, look at piker - if he meets any other class 1 vs 1, he's doomed. If a crossbowman meets archer while having no cover - he's most likely doomed. If a twohander meets two archers and has no cover - he's most likely doomed as well. Shielder has no such weaknesses, it's a manly class for manly men who are afraid of nothing.
But shielder has to be aware. It's something you are missing, probably.
So my advice: if you like playing shielder, stay with it, it's a good class. If you like to whine, start your everlasting respec journey and may the heaven lead you to being a str-horsearcher-throwing-shielder hybrid build using donkey in the end of it.
It should just not be able to respec into an archer.
Only those who painfully level up an archer, from lv1 to lv30, can "enjoy" it. It's just too easy to forget how incredibly boring and powerless a low level archer is, and just bitch about all this high level ones on the server. STF are another thing, since they can't get any xp, and won't ever get better stats anyway. Though it still feels... wrong ?
The sheer amount of everything has always been a problem. One night, every player on the opposing team were shielders. Nearly all of them (go back to siege, damn Greys). It was definitely no fun as an archer, no fun as a thrower, no fun as a melee (since they'll actually swarm you, and you can't quickly take out opponents, since they're all blocking). Yet do we see a "nerf shield" topic ? No. Why ? Because it's normal... if there's 90% of shielders, then yes, you'll be killed by a shielder. If there's 70% of archers, then yes, you'll be killed by an archer. Or do you expect to beat anything, with your exact same playstyle, on every map ?
Though when you see a shielder bitching about ranged, when he's standing on high ground, on a stair, only one things comes to mind... l2p...
It's because what you are suggesting is hiding the problem, not solving it. The problem is that a large population of ranged makes it more appealing to respec to ranged than any other class including shielder or cav. Making it harder to respec would not solve this problem.
I don't know when you played shielder, but it must have been a long time ago. Too long ago. I've played all the maps on EU2, multiple times, so I know most of the spots ranged prefer. So, just my experience probably makes me more aware of archers than most. I'd very much like to know though how you managed to be aware of archers hiding behind every structure on EU2 while still being effective in combat? I think I know the answer to that, but unfortunately for me I don't have a bunch of Druzhina minions covering my back at all times, so I have to do most of the hard work myself.Oh, wait... so you were actually complaining about archers being too strong on EU2? :o Well... While DRZ and some other archers are really good at shooting, I don't see how ranged in general could be a big problem on siege for even a non-shielder class, so, yeah, mad cuz bad, nothing to add here.
I want there to be some sort of balance in regard to ranged classes. I don't mind them being able to kill me from a distance, while I'm approaching them. What I do mind is when after all that painfull approach, the archers pulls back his bow, performs a chernobyl-child dance around me, circumventing the shield, and kills me from a distance where ever my 1h would glance. Or my favorite - archer drops bow and arrows, pulls out his scottish sword and now I'm suddenly facing an agile and maneuverable inf that can control the distance of the fight and can deal the same amount of damage as me. Where is this balance you people speak of?Both are easily counterable. First - by actually paying attention and facing the archer, second - by, well, being decend at fighting.
That's like, your opinion man. The problem is that trolls and anyone else are able to instantly roll and play a class that annoys you. I can absolutely guarantee you that restricting the ability to try out different classes to the duel server will reduce the amount of ranged, and especially HA/HX will drastically diminish on the server. Why? Because for trolls actually spending the time to level a class that high just to troll with smacks of way too much effort for a troll, and for most of the others, the pain of leveling through 25 levels to become somewhat effective while being a suckass in the meantime while losing or barely breaking even on gold will be more than most of them can endure and they will respec.
Besides, your solutions of nerfing archery is hiding the problem of certain classes of melee just plain being bad or feeling entitled beyond reason, not fixing it.
Oh, wait... so you were actually complaining about archers being too strong on EU2? :o Well... While DRZ and some other archers are really good at shooting, I don't see how ranged in general could be a big problem on siege for even a non-shielder class, so, yeah, mad cuz bad, nothing to add here.
Both are easily counterable. First - by actually paying attention and facing the archer, second - by, well, being decend at fighting.
What you consider as good "balance" you wish for, is, probably, the Freeoniz's movie scenario.
I used EU2 as an example dickhead, learn to read between the lines. If I were to write idiot-proof texts for dumdums like you I'd be here 24/7. And don't let your lack of imagination make you think that ranged isn't a problem on EU2. Perhaps if you didn't suck so much with that barmace you'd survive melee fights long enough to see how much of a pain in the ass ranged are.
Anyway, I cannot have a solid discussion with someone who's only argument is "mad cuz bad".
I used EU2 as an example dickhead, learn to read between the lines. If I were to write idiot-proof texts for dumdums like you I'd be here 24/7. And don't let your lack of imagination make you think that ranged isn't a problem on EU2. Perhaps if you didn't suck so much with that barmace you'd survive melee fights long enough to see how much of a pain in the ass ranged are.Oh. While implying I can't read between the lines (lol, why should I), you didn't get ANY of my arguments except "mad cuz bad"?
Anyway, I cannot have a solid discussion with someone who's only argument is "mad cuz bad".
I haven't read the entire thread, but I still wanted to put my opinion here so sorry if it's overlap.
I used to figure that maybe unloomed bows should be useable and not absolute shit because maybe new players want to try it out or whatever and they should totally be able to without needing a high level character and a bunch of looms. Now I'm thinking, fuck that and fuck them. Sure, if you want to play an archer or xbowmen go ahead. But it should need to be a serious investment to be good. Crossbows need a skill to put points into, or something else done to them. +0 bows and crossbows along with their ammunition should be pretty fucking bad compared to the loomed versions and the loomed ones should stay as they are now. That should discourage the dickheads from making a stf or trying archer just to be an ass while still letting the dedicated ranged guys have fun. Because getting on and being shot to shit every god damn time just fucking sucks. I play a hell of a lot less now because of all the shit flying at me
What is the difference between those "trolls" and legit archers/xbowmen? What makes the latter so special?
My solution is to make ranged attract shielders and cav, not more ranged. Your solution is trying to brute force a reduction of ranged population by hurting those that deserve it the least, while not changing anything about the mechanics that lead to this sorry state in the first place, and will invariably lead to it again.
This has nothing to do with people being bad or good. If anything, the better you get, the more you get shot because you survive in melee.
Right....and it isn't free sex that causes pregnancy, it is all of those OP penises! Nerf penises!
No, you restrict underaged kids from having sex and provide condoms for those that will anyhow. You don't cut off the balls and trim the penis to a nub. :rolleyes:
Oh. While implying I can't read between the lines (lol, why should I), you didn't get ANY of my arguments except "mad cuz bad"?What other arguments? That I should face the archer when he's sidestepping me? That's great advise mate, why didn't I think of that :rolleyes:
Also, I think you are taking me for someone else, I never had a build with barmace. I've been using great long axe for quite some time now. And I'm not even in DRZ clan, unlike you mentioned before.
PS: I don't like to wave with my e-peen, but you could just take it as a truth when more experienced players tell you that the reason of your problems is not class disbalance but your own lack of experience.
PPS: I'm not even trying to make another duel thread out of it, just saying. :rolleyes:
What other arguments? That I should face the archer when he's sidestepping me? That's great advise mate, why didn't I think of that :rolleyes:Okay, well, what can I say...
The mod has changed a lot even since when I first started (which was a long time ago) rendering most of your experience somewhat useless. So I don't see why bitterver oldmy old friends like you think themselves so much smarter than the rest of us mortals. That's one of the things killing this mod imho. People like you, running around in their fully loomed suits, brushing off arrows as if they were toothpicks, think that's how the rest of us are experiencing it. Well, unless you start putting yourself in my, and other peoples positions, it's gonna be just you and the rest of the "more experienced players" circle-jerking eachother on EU3.
PS: Saying you don't like to flaunt your epeen, and then doing it anyway makes you look like an asshole
Okay, well, what can I say...
Answering to the quiestion in the OP:
- Yes, you totally should respec to archer. Do it.
Find a correct analogy that represents that more ranged attracts more ranged and maybe we can start talking.
Find evidence that ranged attracts more ranged instead of the ability to instantly create troll mode ranged and we will discuss it.
I
If you've ever played as a 1h shielder you know that mauls are the least of our worries, due to the fact that they are extremely slow. I've only ever met 2 maulers on EU2 that could keep up with me and kill me 1 on 1. Same goes for cav. Unless bumping to death (which takes forever) counts, there is very little a single cav can do against a shielder. Unless that cav is a HA, thats a different story. And I dont know where you're getting your statistics from, but I just played on EU1 and out of 35 people on my team, 6 were shielders (one had a bow on his back and 2 were hoplites). I'd say the amount of shielders is lowest I've ever seen it since I started playing. I don't know when you played shielder, but it must have been a long time ago. Too long ago. I've played all the maps on EU2, multiple times, so I know most of the spots ranged prefer. So, just my experience probably makes me more aware of archers than most. I'd very much like to know though how you managed to be aware of archers hiding behind every structure on EU2 while still being effective in combat? I think I know the answer to that, but unfortunately for me I don't have a bunch of Druzhina minions covering my back at all times, so I have to do most of the hard work myself.
After not having touched my 1h cavalry for many moths, it was good to use a champ mamluk horse for the first time ever and brutally murder most of those nasty ranged players. After all the annoyances they've created on my infantry characters, it was nice to be a douche right back at them.
who's that in your forum sig/avatar?
..... have you ever seen a player with a ranged main that when there is "too much" ranged decides to switch to a shielder alt because that's more fun to play than his main in those conditions? No. Not ever. ........
After not having touched my 1h cavalry for many moths, it was good to use a champ mamluk horse for the first time ever and brutally murder most of those nasty ranged players. After all the annoyances they've created on my infantry characters, it was nice to be a douche right back at them.The mod could need more incentives for cavalry to hunt ranged. Good for balance and often its historical role.
The mod could need more incentives for cavalry to hunt ranged. Good for balance and often its historical role.
Cav still gets in done in my opinion, just most horsemen are enormous cowards. Either an armored horse that can take a lot of projectiles, or an Arabian Warhorse, which makes dodging ranged, for me, trivial. This is as both Jav-Cav or 1h Cav, which I think is the best ranged counter.
15/21 with shield skill, and either ATH or IF. Get a Spathion, Arabian Cavalry sword, or similar, and it works great.