Respec to archer?

[Rumblood]

Find a correct analogy that represents that more ranged attracts more ranged and maybe we can start talking.

Find evidence that ranged attracts more ranged instead of the ability to instantly create troll mode ranged and we will discuss it.

[Kafein]

Find evidence that ranged attracts more ranged instead of the ability to instantly create troll mode ranged and we will discuss it.

Well, does a ranged stack on a server attract anything? It certainly does not attract shieldless infantry, for good reason. And it does not attract shielders either. How am I so sure of this? Because if you ask around, have you ever seen a player with a ranged main that when there is "too much" ranged decides to switch to a shielder alt because that's more fun to play than his main in those conditions? No. Not ever. But that's weird, why do all these melee players create ranged troll STF and login with those characters when there is too much ranged already? Why do they do it with ranged instead of troll shielders or cav? They are all individually making that choice, and they choose ranged. So they must be making the right decision somewhere, or is it just for "trolling"? I doubt that.

Instead of just denying them that choice (in which case they will just go play something else btw), make it so that they have more reasons to choose a counter to ranged, that is not ranged itself. Fix the population dynamics.

[Smithy]

Kafein I agree with both you and Pappy, however in NA, there are shit tons of people who use their STF exclusively for 9/30 archer builds, HX, stone throwers, and the list goes on.  I know some of the people who do that, and it is for trolling purposes, purely.  On the flip side of that, I know that when archers are on in force, I grab my Jav-Cav and exact some Jungle Justice. 

Both of your arguments make sense, but finding an actual solution.. Is not so easy.

[Templar_Steevee]

9/30, sweet to kill, one shot from x-bow or longbow if they will wear light armor XD

[Prpavi]

I

If you've ever played as a 1h shielder you know that mauls are the least of our worries, due to the fact that they are extremely slow. I've only ever met 2 maulers on EU2 that could keep up with me and kill me 1 on 1. Same goes for cav. Unless bumping to death (which takes forever) counts, there is very little a single cav can do against a shielder. Unless that cav is a HA, thats a different story. And I dont know where you're getting your statistics from, but I just played on EU1 and out of 35 people on my team, 6 were shielders (one had a bow on his back and 2 were hoplites). I'd say the amount of shielders is lowest I've ever seen it since I started playing. I don't know when you played shielder, but it must have been a long time ago. Too long ago. I've played all the maps on EU2, multiple times, so I know most of the spots ranged prefer. So, just my experience probably makes me more aware of archers than most. I'd very much like to know though how you managed to be aware of archers hiding behind every structure on EU2 while still being effective in combat? I think I know the answer to that, but unfortunately for me I don't have a bunch of Druzhina minions covering my back at all times, so I have to do most of the hard work myself.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[CrazyCracka420]

After not having touched my 1h cavalry for many moths, it was good to use a champ mamluk horse for the first time ever and brutally murder most of those nasty ranged players. After all the annoyances they've created on my infantry characters, it was nice to be a douche right back at them.

who's that in your forum sig/avatar?

[Lord_Kitazawa_of_Voodoo]

who's that in your forum sig/avatar?

Right click, search Google for this image.

(click to show/hide)

Melissa Debling

[sir_Ady]

..... have you ever seen a player with a ranged main that when there is "too much" ranged decides to switch to a shielder alt because that's more fun to play than his main in those conditions? No. Not ever. ........

Partly disagree... just changed my main from archer to a shielder after 12 gens of archery
And it's fun to play indeed .. Have a ridiculous K/D ratio as I run into the middle of the battle like a headless chicken, and have no experience in close quarter fighting, but I'm enjoying it and I will get better soon

Well and partly... because I'm experimenting to build a proper shielder / archer hybrid later (maybe next gen or after.. I may try a 2 handed version as well)

[Angantyr]

After not having touched my 1h cavalry for many moths, it was good to use a champ mamluk horse for the first time ever and brutally murder most of those nasty ranged players. After all the annoyances they've created on my infantry characters, it was nice to be a douche right back at them.

The mod could need more incentives for cavalry to hunt ranged. Good for balance and often its historical role.

[CrazyCracka420]

The mod could need more incentives for cavalry to hunt ranged. Good for balance and often its historical role.

Lance angle restriction made it a lot harder to hunt archers.  Also the horses are much weaker now than they were 2-3 years ago, making it more difficult to hunt archers. 

Everything that is ever nerfed in the game, effects other areas of the game.  That's why I always say "nerfs beget nerfs".  Nerf item A, now item B is too stronk.  So time to nerf item B, oh wait, now item C is too strong, nerf item C".  It's a vicious, never-ending cycle.

[Smithy]

Cav still gets in done in my opinion, just most horsemen are enormous cowards.  Either an armored horse that can take a lot of projectiles, or an Arabian Warhorse, which makes dodging ranged, for me, trivial.  This is as both Jav-Cav or 1h Cav, which I think is the best ranged counter.

15/21 with shield skill, and either ATH or IF.  Get a Spathion, Arabian Cavalry sword, or similar, and it works great.

[Juhanius]

This thread is

(click to show/hide)

[Smoothrich]

Cav still gets in done in my opinion, just most horsemen are enormous cowards.  Either an armored horse that can take a lot of projectiles, or an Arabian Warhorse, which makes dodging ranged, for me, trivial.  This is as both Jav-Cav or 1h Cav, which I think is the best ranged counter.

15/21 with shield skill, and either ATH or IF.  Get a Spathion, Arabian Cavalry sword, or similar, and it works great.

Killing archers is really damn easy as cav, as long as the teams are balanced and the map isn't shit. In a good round, the archers will be supporting the infantry blob fight by targeting pikes/other ranged/whatever and cav can sneak in and cut a couple down if they stray too far away from supporting polearm infantry. This is pretty fun gameplay.

In a bad (aka a typical) round, the team will be 1/2 or more ranged who are all blobbed together, camping a hill or some other shit part of a map and creating a deadly crossfire to anyone within shooting distance. I'm sure every infantry player has experienced having to attack something like this at the end of a round, and being decimated by bowstagger, 1 hit KO throwing, xbow headshots, and everything else.

A cav, even heavy cav, get torn up just as quick like that. Focus firing a horse when you need to get in close to get some kills will drop the rider and horse within a couple seconds. A good horseman will avoid being in these situations or wait for infantry to support them and cause distractions.. but more and more there's barely any infantry to fill this role, or the maps are so bad that you can't even reach most of the ranged.

Then the occasional jarid, bodkin, or bolt will just inexplicably black bar even a heavy horse with some speed bonus voodoo from across the map. This is prob the most rage inducing and what makes cav stay the fuck away from ranged most of the time. They do so much damage it doesn't even matter what horse you have.

I usually stick to medium horses (Destrier, War Horse) and just target infantry players with lance or HBS, because its way more fun to fight those guys in the melee blob battle and support your team with bumps. Hell its usually easier to kill an infantryman than a ranged since you can juke pikes, but not the hoard of Agi build archers/throwers that crossfire and randomly sprint around.

At least xbows you have an opening when they go to reload. Throwing and light-bow archers just shoot out missiles, and decent archers can hold their shot infinitely long until you get close and stagger you with a shot. Its dumb.