Respec to archer?

[Kafein]

It should just not be able to respec into an archer.

Only those who painfully level up an archer, from lv1 to lv30, can "enjoy" it. It's just too easy to forget how incredibly boring and powerless a low level archer is, and just bitch about all this high level ones on the server. STF are another thing, since they can't get any xp, and won't ever get better stats anyway. Though it still feels... wrong ?

How is that an excuse for... anything? Btw leveling up a melee char when you get trashed at range and ganked in melee because you don't move fast and you don't have lots of HP and armor is what, if not painful?

The sheer amount of everything has always been a problem. One night, every player on the opposing team were shielders. Nearly all of them (go back to siege, damn Greys). It was definitely no fun as an archer, no fun as a thrower, no fun as a melee (since they'll actually swarm you, and you can't quickly take out opponents, since they're all blocking). Yet do we see a "nerf shield" topic ? No. Why ? Because it's normal... if there's 90% of shielders, then yes, you'll be killed by a shielder. If there's 70% of archers, then yes, you'll be killed by an archer. Or do you expect to beat anything, with your exact same playstyle, on every map ?

As a shield user I have come to expect to have an easier time killing an axeman or mauler full clad in armor than a kiting archer, in a real siege or battle scenario. I leave it to you to interpret that.

Though when you see a shielder bitching about ranged, when he's standing on high ground, on a stair, only one things comes to mind... l2p...

Oh the failure of the imagination. Can you picture a shielder chasing one archer and getting killed by another archer? Can you imagine two shielders chasing two different archers and getting shot by the other one? Because that's what happens all the time when you stop turtling and start actually using your shield offensively. Conclusion of the story : don't hunt archers. Is that what you meant when you said l2p? Then we definitely agree.

[Rumblood]

It's because what you are suggesting is hiding the problem, not solving it. The problem is that a large population of ranged makes it more appealing to respec to ranged than any other class including shielder or cav. Making it harder to respec would not solve this problem.

That's like, your opinion man. The problem is that trolls and anyone else are able to instantly roll and play a class that annoys you. I can absolutely guarantee you that restricting the ability to try out different classes to the duel server will reduce the amount of ranged, and especially HA/HX will drastically diminish on the server. Why? Because for trolls actually spending the time to level a class that high just to troll with smacks of way too much effort for a troll, and for most of the others, the pain of leveling through 25 levels to become somewhat effective while being a suckass in the meantime while losing or barely breaking even on gold will be more than most of them can endure and they will respec.
Besides, your solutions of nerfing archery is hiding the problem of certain classes of melee just plain being bad or feeling entitled beyond reason, not fixing it.

[Macropus]

I don't know when you played shielder, but it must have been a long time ago. Too long ago. I've played all the maps on EU2, multiple times, so I know most of the spots ranged prefer. So, just my experience probably makes me more aware of archers than most. I'd very much like to know though how you managed to be aware of archers hiding behind every structure on EU2 while still being effective in combat? I think I know the answer to that, but unfortunately for me I don't have a bunch of Druzhina minions covering my back at all times, so I have to do most of the hard work myself.

Oh, wait... so you were actually complaining about archers being too strong on EU2?    Well... While DRZ and some other archers are really good at shooting, I don't see how ranged in general could be a big problem on siege for even a non-shielder class, so, yeah, mad cuz bad, nothing to add here.

I want there to be some sort of balance in regard to ranged classes. I don't mind them being able to kill me from a distance, while I'm approaching them. What I do mind is when after all that painfull approach, the archers pulls back his bow, performs a chernobyl-child dance around me, circumventing the shield, and kills me from a distance where ever my 1h would glance. Or my favorite - archer drops bow and arrows, pulls out his scottish sword and now I'm suddenly facing an agile and maneuverable inf that can control the distance of the fight and can deal the same amount of damage as me. Where is this balance you people speak of?

Both are easily counterable. First - by actually paying attention and facing the archer, second - by, well, being decend at fighting.
What you consider as good "balance" you wish for, is, probably, the Freeoniz's movie scenario.

[Kafein]

That's like, your opinion man. The problem is that trolls and anyone else are able to instantly roll and play a class that annoys you. I can absolutely guarantee you that restricting the ability to try out different classes to the duel server will reduce the amount of ranged, and especially HA/HX will drastically diminish on the server. Why? Because for trolls actually spending the time to level a class that high just to troll with smacks of way too much effort for a troll, and for most of the others, the pain of leveling through 25 levels to become somewhat effective while being a suckass in the meantime while losing or barely breaking even on gold will be more than most of them can endure and they will respec.
Besides, your solutions of nerfing archery is hiding the problem of certain classes of melee just plain being bad or feeling entitled beyond reason, not fixing it.

What is the difference between those "trolls" and legit archers/xbowmen? What makes the latter so special?

My solution is to make ranged attract shielders and cav, not more ranged. Your solution is trying to brute force a reduction of ranged population by hurting those that deserve it the least, while not changing anything about the mechanics that lead to this sorry state in the first place, and will invariably lead to it again.

This has nothing to do with people being bad or good. If anything, the better you get, the more you get shot because you survive in melee.

[Canuck]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I still wanted to put my opinion here so sorry if it's overlap.

I used to figure that maybe unloomed bows should be useable and not absolute shit because maybe new players want to try it out or whatever and they should totally be able to without needing a high level character and a bunch of looms. Now I'm thinking, fuck that and fuck them. Sure, if you want to play an archer or xbowmen go ahead. But it should need to be a serious investment to be good. Crossbows need a skill to put points into, or something else done to them. +0 bows and crossbows along with their ammunition should be pretty fucking bad compared to the loomed versions and the loomed ones should stay as they are now. That should discourage the dickheads from making a stf or trying archer just to be an ass while still letting the dedicated ranged guys have fun. Because getting on and being shot to shit every god damn time just fucking sucks. I play a hell of a lot less now because of all the shit flying at me

[Thedric]

Oh, wait... so you were actually complaining about archers being too strong on EU2?    Well... While DRZ and some other archers are really good at shooting, I don't see how ranged in general could be a big problem on siege for even a non-shielder class, so, yeah, mad cuz bad, nothing to add here.
Both are easily counterable. First - by actually paying attention and facing the archer, second - by, well, being decend at fighting.
What you consider as good "balance" you wish for, is, probably, the Freeoniz's movie scenario.

I used EU2 as an example dickhead, learn to read between the lines. If I were to write idiot-proof texts for dumdums like you I'd be here 24/7. And don't let your lack of imagination make you think that ranged isn't a problem on EU2. Perhaps if you didn't suck so much with that barmace you'd survive melee fights long enough to see how much of a pain in the ass ranged are.

Anyway, I cannot have a solid discussion with someone who's only argument is "mad cuz bad".

[Austrian]

I used EU2 as an example dickhead, learn to read between the lines. If I were to write idiot-proof texts for dumdums like you I'd be here 24/7. And don't let your lack of imagination make you think that ranged isn't a problem on EU2. Perhaps if you didn't suck so much with that barmace you'd survive melee fights long enough to see how much of a pain in the ass ranged are.

Anyway, I cannot have a solid discussion with someone who's only argument is "mad cuz bad".

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[Macropus]

I used EU2 as an example dickhead, learn to read between the lines. If I were to write idiot-proof texts for dumdums like you I'd be here 24/7. And don't let your lack of imagination make you think that ranged isn't a problem on EU2. Perhaps if you didn't suck so much with that barmace you'd survive melee fights long enough to see how much of a pain in the ass ranged are.

Anyway, I cannot have a solid discussion with someone who's only argument is "mad cuz bad".

Oh. While implying I can't read between the lines (lol, why should I), you didn't get ANY of my arguments except "mad cuz bad"?
Also, I think you are taking me for someone else, I never had a build with barmace. I've been using great long axe for quite some time now. And I'm not even in DRZ clan, unlike you mentioned before.
PS: I don't like to wave with my e-peen, but you could just take it as a truth when more experienced players tell you that the reason of your problems is not class disbalance but your own lack of experience.
PPS: I'm not even trying to make another duel thread out of it, just saying. 

[Rumblood]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I still wanted to put my opinion here so sorry if it's overlap.

I used to figure that maybe unloomed bows should be useable and not absolute shit because maybe new players want to try it out or whatever and they should totally be able to without needing a high level character and a bunch of looms. Now I'm thinking, fuck that and fuck them. Sure, if you want to play an archer or xbowmen go ahead. But it should need to be a serious investment to be good. Crossbows need a skill to put points into, or something else done to them. +0 bows and crossbows along with their ammunition should be pretty fucking bad compared to the loomed versions and the loomed ones should stay as they are now. That should discourage the dickheads from making a stf or trying archer just to be an ass while still letting the dedicated ranged guys have fun. Because getting on and being shot to shit every god damn time just fucking sucks. I play a hell of a lot less now because of all the shit flying at me

This plus STF ranged only on duel servers (okay, and DTV)

What is the difference between those "trolls" and legit archers/xbowmen? What makes the latter so special?

My solution is to make ranged attract shielders and cav, not more ranged. Your solution is trying to brute force a reduction of ranged population by hurting those that deserve it the least, while not changing anything about the mechanics that lead to this sorry state in the first place, and will invariably lead to it again.

This has nothing to do with people being bad or good. If anything, the better you get, the more you get shot because you survive in melee.

Right....and it isn't free sex that causes pregnancy, it is all of those OP penises! Nerf penises!
No, you restrict underaged kids from having sex and provide condoms for those that will anyhow. You don't cut off the balls and trim the penis to a nub. 

[Kafein]

Right....and it isn't free sex that causes pregnancy, it is all of those OP penises! Nerf penises!
No, you restrict underaged kids from having sex and provide condoms for those that will anyhow. You don't cut off the balls and trim the penis to a nub. 

Find a correct analogy that represents that more ranged attracts more ranged and maybe we can start talking.

[Thedric]

Oh. While implying I can't read between the lines (lol, why should I), you didn't get ANY of my arguments except "mad cuz bad"?
Also, I think you are taking me for someone else, I never had a build with barmace. I've been using great long axe for quite some time now. And I'm not even in DRZ clan, unlike you mentioned before.
PS: I don't like to wave with my e-peen, but you could just take it as a truth when more experienced players tell you that the reason of your problems is not class disbalance but your own lack of experience.
PPS: I'm not even trying to make another duel thread out of it, just saying. 

What other arguments? That I should face the archer when he's sidestepping me? That's great advise mate, why didn't I think of that 

The mod has changed a lot even since when I first started (which was a long time ago) rendering most of your experience somewhat useless. So I don't see why bitterver oldmy old friends like you think themselves so much smarter than the rest of us mortals. That's one of the things killing this mod imho. People like you, running around in their fully loomed suits, brushing off arrows as if they were toothpicks, think that's how the rest of us are experiencing it. Well, unless you start putting yourself in my, and other peoples positions, it's gonna be just you and the rest of the "more experienced players" circle-jerking eachother on EU3.

PS: Saying you don't like to flaunt your epeen, and then doing it anyway makes you look like an asshole

[Rico]

When you bought Mount&Blade, you read about possible classes and accepted the existence of ranged enemies. Why have you changed your mind?

If you want honorable duels, go to EU3. If you want to gank and be ganked with no horses or projectiles, go to HRE server (melee only).

Interestingly, there are rarely more than 10 players on EU3, and HRE is always empty unless the other servers are down.

[Macropus]

What other arguments? That I should face the archer when he's sidestepping me? That's great advise mate, why didn't I think of that 

The mod has changed a lot even since when I first started (which was a long time ago) rendering most of your experience somewhat useless. So I don't see why bitterver oldmy old friends like you think themselves so much smarter than the rest of us mortals. That's one of the things killing this mod imho. People like you, running around in their fully loomed suits, brushing off arrows as if they were toothpicks, think that's how the rest of us are experiencing it. Well, unless you start putting yourself in my, and other peoples positions, it's gonna be just you and the rest of the "more experienced players" circle-jerking eachother on EU3.

PS: Saying you don't like to flaunt your epeen, and then doing it anyway makes you look like an asshole

Okay, well, what can I say...
Answering to the quiestion in the OP:
- Yes, you totally should respec to archer. Do it.

[Smithy]

Okay, well, what can I say...
Answering to the quiestion in the OP:
- Yes, you totally should respec to archer. Do it.

I actually laughed.  His last post combined with this response, just fucking killed me I can't stop giggling.  Thank you.   

[Gurnisson]

After not having touched my 1h cavalry for many moths, it was good to use a champ mamluk horse for the first time ever and brutally murder most of those nasty ranged players. After all the annoyances they've created on my infantry characters, it was nice to be a douche right back at them.