well they are kind of hiding themselves from the wrath of hate by disabling the comments, so i would apply cowardice to them. If they knew the comment was going to cause hatred, maybe they shouldnt have made it.-Antiblitz
no please lets discuss it some more, i dont mind beating a dead horse some more. Lets make another 5 pages about how im racist, and a a weak human being, almost as if everything that could be said wasnt said already in the 5 pages.
The previous thread was a nice read, although I didn't really know what to post in it.
Anyway Antiblitz, did someone close to you die in 9/11? Otherwise, I don't get it why you take it so personally.
So, someone insignificant on the internet, youtube did some joke about 9/11 or something? Wake up, it happened 12 years ago, you act like it's the 1st time people make jokes about misery. Look at WW2 jokes for an example.
Man up.
seriously, stop being so murican, sell some of your many guns and grab some eye-opening books maybe?
Oh man, you are so cute. I can only imagine how hard it must be in your life, fearing Youtube comments. Every time you open a Youtube link, you dare not scroll down to the comments. They could be dangerous. Oh indeed, it takes untold bravery to look at the comments. Only the courageous have the strength of will to do so, others are cowards.
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No worries, the gun murrica comment was just made to poke you a bit and somewhat make you respond.
It's my title damnit, gotta live up to it sometimes
Mhm, I get it but you shouldn't care at all.
America got a bit of a taste of what they did with their Airforce in the other sides of the world for a bit?I didn't read all the drama so don't get mad at me if I miss something important but...
This may sound dark but.. karma?
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The only reason murica hasnt nuked Latvia for this, is because they couldnt find it on the map.
America got a bit of a taste of what they did with their Airforce in the other sides of the world for a bit?
This may sound dark but.. karma?
Well while we are rehashing, hypocrite much yourself? Mockingly deriding the idea that locking comments is the pussy way out, yet feel the need to deride Blitz for locking his. Sad commentary on your psyche.
Just wait for the day 'murica runs out of potatoes and can't make enough french fries for their MacDolands meals... They will find Latvia then and come guns blazing :lol:It's ironic, that the whole Latvia potato joke thing is basically making fun of the soviet occupation of Latvia, compared to which the 2k people that died in 9/11 is absolutely nothing, especially when taking into account how small a nation latvians are.
Every nation which acts against another nation has it coming to them, by that logic.
Doesn't mean it's any less shocking or painful when it does happen.
But, no, of course Europeans have never experienced tragedy, fucking insensitive assholes, how dare they not be mourning 9/11 daily and even make a joke about something!?
There may have been a lot of wars in Europe, but "Europe" does not "know" anything about tragedy and loss. Very few people of the current generations experienced any war first-hand. I find this whole discussion corny. It's like two kids going "my dad is tougher than your dad." Who the fuck cares how many wars there have been on your continent? It's just a dumb piece of land. Experienced it yourself? No? Then why mention it? Maybe 10,000 Americans were really influenced by 9/11 and that's not very much, considering they have a population of three hundred million; so it's just as dumb for them to wave their "tragedy" around as some sort of a victim-banner.I experience the consequences of a war first-hand every day - as both the demographic and economic situation of Latvia. My family has been personally affected as well, people have died, but, i guess that doesn't affect me as much, since they died well before i was born.
The world doesn't punish evil people or evil countries. There is no karma. Continents cannot think thoughts. Some countries have different national identities because they still want to pity themselves as a collective whole over what happened a couple generations ago, but only retards buy into that.
I experience the consequences of a war first-hand every day - as both the demographic and economic situation of Latvia. My family has been personally affected as well, people have died, but, i guess that doesn't affect me as much, since they died well before i was born.Those are more like tertiary effects of the war. Caused by it, sure. Sucks? Sure. But it makes no difference for you if it was caused by a war or if the economy and demographics had always been like that, or caused by a bad political move before you were born. Therefore I don't think you or your generation can really speak of "the tragedy of war." That chain of reasoning has to stop somewhere, otherwise Finns could still talk about how all their troubles were caused by the lack of water in Africa when the first humans were born there.
Those are more like tertiary effects of the war. Caused by it, sure. Sucks? Sure. But it makes no difference for you if it was caused by a war or if the economy and demographics had always been like that, or caused by a bad political move before you were born. Therefore I don't think you or your generation can really speak of "the tragedy of war."
Those are more like tertiary effects of the war. Caused by it, sure. Sucks? Sure. But it makes no difference for you if it was caused by a war or if the economy and demographics had always been like that, or caused by a bad political move before you were born. Therefore I don't think you or your generation can really speak of "the tragedy of war." That chain of reasoning has to stop somewhere, otherwise Finns could still talk about how all their troubles were caused by the lack of water in Africa when the first humans were born there.Well, it's not a matter of a slightly worse situation - the occupation completely stripped away and ruined the economy of the country (which was pretty great before all that), whilst creating an enormous demographic problem, which continues to undermine this country.
Well, it's not a matter of a slightly worse situation - the occupation completely stripped away and ruined the economy of the country (which was pretty great before all that), whilst creating an enormous demographic problem, which continues to undermine this country.Yeah, but my point is that what you're experiencing is a bad economic and demographic situation, not war. Your experiences are comparable to someone else somewhere else in the world in such a situation, but not to someone who's been through war.
Perhaps i can't speak of the tragedy of the war, but then again, 60-70 years ago - there is a good part of the population which can, which does make it relatable to 9/11. I don't see these people wailing about their actually personally experienced past tragedy, when someone makes a joke somewhere.
Depends how old is he. Baltics got completely free in 1993, in 1991 we had soviets on our doorstep with their tanks ready to violently take full control, by mere luck that did not happen. At that time people were scared of the worst case scenario. US has never had a war on their soil before. 9/11 is nothing.
Depends how old is he. Baltics got completely free in 1993, in 1991 we had soviets on our doorstep with their tanks ready to violently take full control, by mere luck that did not happen. At that time people were scared of the worst case scenario. US has never had a war on their soil before. 9/11 is nothing.
Time does heal wounds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War
The US south is still struggling economically and socially with the heritage of the secession war even today. Compared to the north and west anyway.
I do remember war state in Poland. It was War teoretically people died, my familly was "interviewed" by secret communistic police bla bla bla. Even we are making jokes about it. In Poland we have sometimes this attitude that when you can laught and make jokes about bad times that happen to you then you are stronk and will survive. There is time for mourning but when it extend 1,5 year you should go and visit specialist. When its more than 10 years you might wanna go and call ambulance.
Economical and social struggle from wars is everywhere. Russia, Germany, Baltics.....etc
There is time for mourning but when it extend 1,5 year you should go and visit specialist. When its more than 10 years you might wanna go and call ambulance.
Nonsense.It means that trauma from event overcome your natural resources to fight with it. PTSD is diagnosed after 6 months after traumatic influence stops. Actually Prudence Gourguechon says natural mouring should last 2 years max. So it vary on how steep symptoms are. But if you are still mourning and butthurt 10 years after traumatic event then it means you didn't copy well with it and could search for professionall help.
I am baffled how can anyone consider avoiding to say gook to asian looking people as a white man not racist. This is litterally the definition of positive discrimination.
A korean saying gook to another korean - fine
A non-korean saying gook to another non-korean - fine
A korean saying gook to a non-korean - weird but fine
A non-korean saying gook to a korean - homygodwhyareyousoinsensitive
It's based on race/nationality. It's racist to make a difference.
Either way, was just trying to show my point of view, and get other peoples, im not upset if you dont share the same views, i cant change you. But id rather make discussion than shit post like Tiberius. Still hasnt learned yet how to post.
prejudice, is prejudice, doesnt matter if its race or cultural differences, still offensive, dont offend people when they are your target audience.
I can only presume that it was because he was white and using the N word. He is a foreigner to this man, why can he use those terms?Better question: why couldn't he say that despite being white and "a foreigner"?
Better question: why couldn't he say that despite being white and "a foreigner"?
It's clearly not prejudice when a black man says friend to another black man, but it's prejudice when a white man says friend to a black man. This is okay for you ? Some races are allowed to use certain words and some races are not ?
Not all my posts were shitposts. What I find really ironical is that you think you are some serius poster and discussionprovider compared to me . My friend, your posts are as full of garbage as mine, even if not 2 times even worse. I atleast admit to my shitposts, while you live in your little fairyland and dream that you are some real community intellect, while every person with half a brain can clearly read that you say so little and wrong despite the walls of text.
And honestly I think its you who should learn how to post. You remind a bit of myself 5 years ago.
The only reason murica hasnt nuked Latvia for this, is because they couldnt find it on the map.
Nobody here really never poked the 9/11 subject. You just randomly bought it up and became butthurt. Kinda dumb move there Blitzymate
All im getting is that u asked for opinions and now you cant handle the awnsers. Sad. Should have really strapped those bigboypants on before you made this thread.
dont you think it might have been a mistake making this thread in the first place? I mean now people know how to get under your skin
From now on Blitz is courtesypolicing the whole community. Watch your ass! :rolleyes:
Again dont come to us to talk about courtecy really. None of us have really made any of these jokes. You asked for my opinion and I gave it. You are really the scumbag here for making this thread in the first place. Trying to create some publicposse towards some 2 dudes.
"OMG he compared americandeaths to spilling tea!!! WHAT ASSHOLES!" Really? Are you for reals Blitz? The third video however was slightly much, I can agree on that, but still, nothing to be too butthurt about. The internet is a offensive place mate, if you are really such a emotional wreck and start writing gigantic hatemail and crying your eyes out for a couple of offensive jokes then I suggest not using the internet at all.
I too have butthurtmoments about certain subjects. But I suck it up and keep it quiet (mostly anyway), cause that is the descent way of doing things. Not going around and courtecypolicing.
the foreigner is more of him being white and "foreign" to the mans culture and race, ie, black.
I didnt consider this worth a mention really. That ended more then 130 years ago. I dont bring up over 100 year old events when talking about my nation or other EU nations aswell. And its not quite the same really in many ways.
So yeah, it compares easily to WWI and II and in some ways is more relevant to Americans than WWI and II would be to most Europeans except for Germany who probably has the greatest number of parallels in terms of redressing those events in history.
Yes, but my point was.. so what? What if I'm offended by him being offended by that? Would it then not be okay for him to be offended? If it would still be okay, why is it not okay for the comedian to say "friend" even though he is white just because it offends someone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzm2MCg5HfU
True stuff. Don't know how the world would actually be today if the outcome of that war had been different. And we all know, America got a great impact on the world (can discuss if it's a good or bad one of course). Imagine America hadn't joined either world wars. :P
because there is an imaginary line drawn that is socially accepted/socially not, and he crossed it, hell, a lot of people in the crowd were shocked, not just one man, but he was the one who stood up because it offended him the most, and decided to say something.Oh, I'm well aware of the imaginary lines. What I'm saying is that they should be disregarded. We're never going to advance if we stick to old traditions "just because." Why should anyone abide by artificial imaginary lines that make no sense?
Xant idk what to tell you, lol, go watch any black comedian, he will use the N word about 100 fucking times during an act because he wont get a backlash from it, because its acceptable for him to say it. I dont make these weird social rules up, idk where they even come from, i just abide by them for the sake of not offending people.
Oh, I'm well aware of the imaginary lines. What I'm saying is that they should be disregarded. We're never going to advance if we stick to old traditions "just because." Why should anyone abide by artificial imaginary lines that make no sense?
“Nobody has the right to not be offended. That right doesn't exist in any declaration I have ever read.
If you are offended it is your problem, and frankly lots of things offend lots of people.
I can walk into a bookshop and point out a number of books that I find very unattractive in what they say. But it doesn't occur to me to burn the bookshop down. If you don't like a book, read another book. If you start reading a book and you decide you don't like it, nobody is telling you to finish it.
To read a 600-page novel and then say that it has deeply offended you: well, you have done a lot of work to be offended.”
What's happened is cultures have "copyrighted" what they are and "get offended" when a different culture/group uses it and not them(publicly, at least).I dont think they get offended because some other culture is using it. They get offended because they consider getting offended a part of their privilege or even birthright. To every person acctually hurt and offended by a harmful comment or joke theres about a 100 just getting offended because they subconsciously consider it a privilege.
im asking what made that man upset by using those terms? was it because he was not the same culture and race as him, so now are you not allowed to say those things because they are socially no accepted.
I still dont get the argument, i think its just arguing for the sake of arguing.
It's Bloody "Political Correctness." What's happened is cultures have "copyrighted" what they are and "get offended" when a different culture/group uses it and not them(publicly, at least).
You have to first remove the "Political Correctness" that we have ingrained into society.
I just want to note that, though the comments made are light at best, they are still comments that i feel shouldnt be made in the presence of someone with connection to the joke.
This is so american it hurts.
In Europe, and above all in France, you don't have a race. You are human being, that's all that matters. Everything that is okay to say to someone else is okay to say to you too. Every form of discrimination, be it positive or negative, is discrimination.
a) there is a saying in germany "you shouldnt talk badly about the dead", i do agree with that saying and making jokes about dead people is worse then just bad taste. People got killed and families lost their loved once. You can not emphasis this and make at the same time a joke about it.
b) Blowback, the CIA has strongly suggested that evnets like these come to happen because policies choosen by your politicians which had inflected pain on a same level.
c) the circumstances of 9/11 and also the london bobmbings are still highly questionable as pointed out by worldwide intelligencia. If you didn't do the reading about the circumstances including the so called "conspiracy/leftist therories"(by whom are they called that way anyways?), again if you didn't do your homework there you may have a very distorted view which is far away from reality. Having more points of view is always a good thing.
d) judging people for their opinions when you asked for them and then neglecting them to adress your reactions by shuting down the thread is controversial at best. Put it bluntly, you acted like a tool. Still as pointed out in a) i get that you are hurt by people insulting the memory of a terrible event and this should not be done in any case , everywhere.
I'm not sure all the words are where they should be in that sentence
There's a problem because you treat people differently based on race. Black people that get offended when a white man calls them friends but don't when a black man does it in the same circumstances are also being racist mind you.
This is so american it hurts.
In Europe, and above all in France, you don't have a race. You are human being, that's all that matters. Everything that is okay to say to someone else is okay to say to you too. Every form of discrimination, be it positive or negative, is discrimination.
Oh, is that true? Then Mind telling me How you feel about immigrants over there? From What I've heard, far more people dislike immigrants discriminate based on race.
Sure, maybe according to the government, but then again, if a black guy and a white guy(or any combination of different culture groups) come together, and 1 uses a joke about the other(Example: Black men are good at Basketball, cause they run, jump and shoot.), even in your country it'll get punished by the predominant majority. Joke, using a stereotype, funny(at least to some) yet offensive because you're labeling a race/culture.
My feel about immigrants is that having plenty of people coming to work for miserable wages in our country is a blessing.Blessing for whom? Are you familiar with Ricardo's economic theories?
Blessing for whom? Are you familiar with Ricardo's economic theories?
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I am not familiar with that (or the usage of "whom" apparently). But anyway my reasoning is that work at miserable wages produces more value that can be sold for cheaper, increasing the life standard of whoever buys the products.Immigrants working for miserable wages is all well and good for the well-educated people, the skilled workers (as immigrants tend to not be well educated, though this isn't always the case, for example immigrants in the UK are 50% more likely than natives to have a university degree) but it fucks over the working-class, the unskilled workers, hard. Wages are dependent on scarcity, and suddenly there's tons of people who will do their jobs for a lot less money. So their wages go down as well, if they want to have any work.
Immigrants working for miserable wages is all well and good for the well-educated people, the skilled workers (as immigrants tend to not be well educated, though this isn't always the case, for example immigrants in the UK are 50% more likely than natives to have a university degree) but it fucks over the working-class, the unskilled workers, hard. Wages are dependent on scarcity, and suddenly there's tons of people who will do their jobs for a lot less money. So their wages go down as well, if they want to have any work.
In other words, good news for some, bad news for others.
Immigrants working for miserable wages is all well and good for the well-educated people, the skilled workers (as immigrants tend to not be well educated, though this isn't always the case, for example immigrants in the UK are 50% more likely than natives to have a university degree) but it fucks over the working-class, the unskilled workers, hard. Wages are dependent on scarcity, and suddenly there's tons of people who will do their jobs for a lot less money. So their wages go down as well, if they want to have any work.
In other words, good news for some, bad news for others.
I'm a murican. The thing I found funny about our over sensitivity to 9/11 and anyone making it into anything but a huge tragedy is that we committed the biggest terrorist attack in the history of the world. Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
When Japan sneaked attacked us at pearl harbor, they didn't go for densely populated civilian sectors. They went for military targets. While there was military infrastructure in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the biggest amount of damage was caused by the fact that we dropped nukes on densely populated civilian sectors, I don't consider it anything but an act of terror committed by us. 9/11 casualties pale in comparison to the amount of lives lost on that day and in my opinion the tragedies of both our nations are incomparable. Yet I still see Americans and our media making jokes or puns regarding dropping the nukes every single year. Until America as a whole learns to be more sensitive to other nations tragedies I don't think we deserve sensitivity when it comes to our tragedies.
It all depends on the intent behind the joke and the scale of the tragedy to me. Try making a joke about the Holocaust in Germany, I doubt you could do that without being branded some kind of chocolate chip cookie sympathizer or racist. If 9/11 is widely regarded as a huge tragedy and even mentioning it to an American might offend them, then I guess its too much in bad taste. Personally though I am not affected enough by the events to not laugh at things related to it. It depends on the intent behind the joke..is it to belittle or suggest the event was a good thing? Or is it just a harmless joke that doesn't seek to offend the victims, and what was the scale and reason behind the tragedy?
Those videos to me were really tame though. I don't think you should be afraid to even acknowledge similarities between tragic event and something in a game.
It depends basically..imagine a nuke was dropped on the US now. Joking about that would be very different than joking about 4k who died 12 years ago. To me 4k deaths are not in the magnitude of tragedy were its off limits for everyone, and I don't think its the sort of event that anyone besides the actual victims/families should be too concerned about. I mean how does it affect you if you or your family weren't directly involved. Is it OK to make jokes about the Iraq war were hundreds of thousands die? Is it ok to laugh about religious leaders like in Southpark? Those types of jokes might offend millions, but doesn't stop them being funny. Where do you draw the line basically
A lot of comics in the UK consider nothing to be off limits, that its actually healthy even for the victims to be able to find humour even in tragic events
If you go back far enough you will find atrocities committed everywhere. You can't really hold ancestors responsible for stuff. Hmm, the biggest tragedy in US history is probably the genocide of the indigenous natives on the American continent.
I'm a murican. The thing I found funny about our over sensitivity to 9/11 and anyone making it into anything but a huge tragedy is that we committed the biggest terrorist attack in the history of the world. Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
When Japan sneaked attacked us at pearl harbor, they didn't go for densely populated civilian sectors. They went for military targets. While there was military infrastructure in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the biggest amount of damage was caused by the fact that we dropped nukes on densely populated civilian sectors, I don't consider it anything but an act of terror committed by us. 9/11 casualties pale in comparison to the amount of lives lost on that day and in my opinion the tragedies of both our nations are incomparable. Yet I still see Americans and our media making jokes or puns regarding dropping the nukes every single year. Until America as a whole learns to be more sensitive to other nations tragedies I don't think we deserve sensitivity when it comes to our tragedies.
It's true but the dynamics are more complicated than that in the long run. It is also a direct opportunity for poor wannabe entrepreneurs.
I am not familiar with that (or the usage of "whom" apparently). But anyway my reasoning is that work at miserable wages produces more value that can be sold for cheaper, increasing the life standard of whoever buys the products.
(this is going to seem like a stereotype, however it is not! because he really does exist) I can drive to the local BP station, which is owned by a middle eastern man of which country i couldnt tell you he was from, because he is straight business and wont talk to me anyways lol, and i can attempt to strike up small talk with him, however, i wouldnt ever dare say anything about the American/middle eastern conflict, simply out of respect for him. [...]This is something I have completely different experiences with. Tho I am not really an "involved party".
a middle eastern man of which country i couldnt tell you he was from, because he is straight business and wont talk to me anyways lol, and i can attempt to strike up small talk with him, however, i wouldnt ever dare say anything about the American/middle eastern conflict, simply out of respect for him.
ya thanks for posting your thoughts,your welcome, but it wasnt done for your pleasure or on your behalf and
...it still seems not to be a discussion, as you just thanked me but didn't respond on my "thoughts".
isnt discussion.
A short answer to Kafein, like "I don't share your perception/defenition of racism" may have ended that train of thought of Kafein perhaps earlier. As otherwise i imagine he may have seen himself to conclude his statements to a point he produces understanding on your side(Kafein please correct me if i am wrong there, this at least was the impresion i got)
War should be justified the same way murder is, legally. Our rhetoric is effective enough that people don't see that.i dont quite understand the second part of that sentence and disagree with the first part.
there is only one realWhat if another country is exterminating its populace systematically, would it not be just to attack that country and stop it?
"just war" and that is if you are the one being attacked and you are defending yourself.
There is no such thing as a defensive war. Ever heard of preventive strikes ?
My point is that neutrally determining who is the aggressor and who is the defender is always much more complicated than what it seems at first glance.
@XantHuh? That doesn't answer my question at all.
Everyone has the Right to defend himself against any agressor, may it be your own father beating the crap out of you, a group of children terroresing you or another country attacking you with weapons. If a conflict arises within a country, as with any conflict in the end it doesnt matter who started it aslong the conflict keeps getting heated up. Defining categories when a conflict, an uprise, a fight for freedom or agaisnt supression becomes a war is a difficult thing and i would want to take the easy way out and leave it to the historians to define.
From my own experience with violence, my ideals and hopes, as childish they may seem to some of you, i would prefer if people at some point would decide against a career with the army, would decide when they go into politics that helping their own people cant be done on the cost of the people of other countries, after all we have only this 1 World and we need all to get by.
What if another country is exterminating its populace systematically, would it not be just to attack that country and stop it?
What if another country is exterminating its populace systematically, would it not be just to attack that country and stop it?Well USA nor any other western country feeled obliged to intervene in Rwanda when the Tutsis where massacred.
Well USA nor any other western country feeled obliged to intervene in Rwanda when the Tutsis where massacred.Most of the times, only economical, geopolitical, strategical reasons and such like will lead to a bigger form of military commitment.
Well USA nor any other western country feeled obliged to intervene in Rwanda when the Tutsis where massacred.And?
Well USA nor any other western country feeled obliged to intervene in Rwanda when the Tutsis where massacred.
You know that they found radioactive traces in champagne a few years back? I don't think it needs bombs to turn France into a nuclear wasteland.In the 70's, mothers had been warned to not give children tab water. There had been added chemicals to bind radioactivity from all the a-bomb testings. Ask the guys responsible for your water.
You know that they found radioactive traces in champagne a few years back? I don't think it needs bombs to turn France into a nuclear wasteland.
You would be amazed what you get as radioactivity measurement next to your home toilet...
In the 70, mothers had been warned to not give children tab water. There had been added chemicals to bind radioactivity from all the a-bomb testings. Ask the guys responsible for your water.
Warning, do not give to kids!damn Bonaqua tablewarter ...
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Twin Towers fancy dress students condemned
Two students who dressed as the Twin Towers in a fancy dress competition have been condemned by university and students' union bosses.
University of Chester students Amber Langford and Annie Collinge, both 19, won the Halloween competition at a nightclub in Chester.
Their outfits depicted flames and explosions during the 11 September 2001 attack on the World Trade Center.
They apologised for causing offence, which they said "was not intended".
The University of Chester and Chester Students' Union said they "utterly condemn the appalling photos which have been shared on social media".
'Modern-day horror'
A spokeswoman said: "Both organisations have begun an urgent investigation into the circumstances around which these images have been taken with a view to taking the necessary action."
The university spokeswoman was unable to say what action could be taken.
The students said: "We never meant to be offensive, but we apologise if any offence was caused.
"The idea was to depict a serious, modern-day horror that happened in our lifetime and was not intended as a joke."
They won £150 in shopping vouchers for their costume. The photograph featured on the Chester Parties Facebook page but was removed following criticism.
George Borsberry, who was at the event, said: "Never seen such disgusting behaviour by anyone."
A spokeswoman for the Stonegate Pub Company, which runs the nightclub, said: "Following the club night Halloween promotion that took place at Rosies, Chester, we are extremely concerned that an award of shopping vouchers was made to two young women who were dressed in a distasteful and offensive manner.
"There was a serious error of judgment made on the evening by a contracted DJ to award such a prize and we apologise to anybody who may have been upset or offended by this."
Those costumes are pretty awesome considering how smashed these chicks must be all the time. Next year one of them will dress up as the Hotel des Mille Collines with Tutsis bodies taped all around their base lol
That might have been then. Recently, a study revealed that the tap water here is of better quality than branded bottle water like San Pellegrino, Perrier, etc. Yet people still pay a premium price to be able to haul bottles back and forth.I just saw a new documentation on tab water here in germany.