Re: Europeans they dont have feels

[Sir_Hans]

I'm a murican. The thing I found funny about our over sensitivity to 9/11 and anyone making it into anything but a huge tragedy is that we committed the biggest terrorist attack in the history of the world. Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

When Japan sneaked attacked us at pearl harbor, they didn't go for densely populated civilian sectors. They went for military targets. While there was military infrastructure in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the biggest amount of damage was caused by the fact that we dropped nukes on densely populated civilian sectors, I don't consider it anything but an act of terror committed by us. 9/11 casualties pale in comparison to the amount of lives lost on that day and in my opinion the tragedies of both our nations are incomparable. Yet I still see Americans and our media making jokes or puns regarding dropping the nukes every single year. Until America as a whole learns to be more sensitive to other nations tragedies I don't think we deserve sensitivity when it comes to our tragedies.

That's just my 2 cents.

Also I agree with Xant's post about it doesn't really matter how many wars have been fought on your countries soil. Aside from maybe a couple people on these forums. I doubt you have felt any of the effects of any war first hand.

[Rumblood]

Immigrants working for miserable wages is all well and good for the well-educated people, the skilled workers (as immigrants tend to not be well educated, though this isn't always the case, for example immigrants in the UK are 50% more likely than natives to have a university degree) but it fucks over the working-class, the unskilled workers, hard. Wages are dependent on scarcity, and suddenly there's tons of people who will do their jobs for a lot less money. So their wages go down as well, if they want to have any work.

In other words, good news for some, bad news for others.

If the government is going to allow non-citizens into the country to take advantage of cheap labor, they have an obligation to ensure that actual citizens are given the education and training to prevent them from being in direct competition for non-skilled positions. If the prevailing winds don't like such a socialist concept, then do your fucking job and keep those aliens on the other side of the border.

[Lt_Anders]

I'm a murican. The thing I found funny about our over sensitivity to 9/11 and anyone making it into anything but a huge tragedy is that we committed the biggest terrorist attack in the history of the world. Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

When Japan sneaked attacked us at pearl harbor, they didn't go for densely populated civilian sectors. They went for military targets. While there was military infrastructure in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the biggest amount of damage was caused by the fact that we dropped nukes on densely populated civilian sectors, I don't consider it anything but an act of terror committed by us. 9/11 casualties pale in comparison to the amount of lives lost on that day and in my opinion the tragedies of both our nations are incomparable. Yet I still see Americans and our media making jokes or puns regarding dropping the nukes every single year. Until America as a whole learns to be more sensitive to other nations tragedies I don't think we deserve sensitivity when it comes to our tragedies.

Uneducated Idiot trying to pass off the Historical re-write people are pushing.

If anything, the Nagasaki/Hiroshima bombs are 10x less in magnitude than what Japan did to the Chinese, Philippines, and some of the other Asian Countries.

In addition, was the bomb needed to end the war? Maybe. It's debatable. People believe that Japan wouldn't surrender without an invasion, others feel they were almost ready to surrender.

Lets just Ignore the whole, overall actual war and just concentrate on one event, ignoring nearly 2 decades of events.

[Grumbs]

If you go back far enough you will find atrocities committed everywhere. You can't really hold ancestors responsible for stuff. Hmm, the biggest tragedy in US history is probably the genocide of the indigenous natives on the American continent.

[AntiBlitz]

It all depends on the intent behind the joke and the scale of the tragedy to me. Try making a joke about the Holocaust in Germany, I doubt you could do that without being branded some kind of chocolate chip cookie sympathizer or racist. If 9/11 is widely regarded as a huge tragedy and even mentioning it to an American might offend them, then I guess its too much in bad taste. Personally though I am not affected enough by the events to not laugh at things related to it. It depends on the intent behind the joke..is it to belittle or suggest the event was a good thing? Or is it just a harmless joke that doesn't seek to offend the victims, and what was the scale and reason behind the tragedy?

Those videos to me were really tame though. I don't think you should be afraid to even acknowledge similarities between tragic event and something in a game.

It depends basically..imagine a nuke was dropped on the US now. Joking about that would be very different than joking about 4k who died 12 years ago. To me 4k deaths are not in the magnitude of tragedy were its off limits for everyone, and I don't think its the sort of event that anyone besides the actual victims/families should be too concerned about. I mean how does it affect you if you or your family weren't directly involved. Is it OK to make jokes about the Iraq war were hundreds of thousands die? Is it ok to laugh about religious leaders like in Southpark? Those types of jokes might offend millions, but doesn't stop them being funny. Where do you draw the line basically

A lot of comics in the UK consider nothing to be off limits, that its actually healthy even for the victims to be able to find humour even in tragic events

(this is going to seem like a stereotype, however it is not! because he really does exist)  I can drive to the local BP station, which is owned by a middle eastern man of which country i couldnt tell you he was from, because he is straight business and wont talk to me anyways lol, and i can attempt to strike up small talk with him, however, i wouldnt ever dare say anything about the American/middle eastern conflict, simply out of respect for him.  However speaking from a perspective that you are watching something that is comedic, and you pretty much are expecting possible insulting humor, well idk where the line is really, its all over the place lol, i cant really think there is a line until they step out on the stage and look about and say, "well maybe that joke wont be funny tonight".  However in the case of the Yogscast crew, i think its rather commonsense that the viewership is going to be a large portion of Americans, so why knowing that say that crap?  pretty much had my question answered though, as i simply think they do not care lol.
 
ya actually the first video was quite light hearted really, the second one being a little more distasteful, the last one though was what actually got me, i mean he reconstructed the towers, then flew a giant penis into it while commentating a newscaster speaking about the second tower being struck.  Kind of far really, i mean really went out of his way on that one.  It was all the comments built up into a big ball that made me say what the fuck man, like really, is that all this guy can joke about.  Actually its his fourth time making those jokes, i had forgotten about an earlier minecraft video where he made a comparison about someone rigging a tnt trap to 9/11, while Lewis tried to quickly change the topic to say it was more similar to a car bomb.

But anyways, about the comics, i found this comedian guy(i dont remember how i found it really) who actually just heckles Germans because he thinks its funny, and i guess he wants other Germans to think its funny as well.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324755104579073071540678580

If you go back far enough you will find atrocities committed everywhere. You can't really hold ancestors responsible for stuff. Hmm, the biggest tragedy in US history is probably the genocide of the indigenous natives on the American continent.

well yes, though we had quite the gruesome massacres at times, most of the population was already done in by simple diseases which were out of control amongst their population.

I'm a murican. The thing I found funny about our over sensitivity to 9/11 and anyone making it into anything but a huge tragedy is that we committed the biggest terrorist attack in the history of the world. Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

When Japan sneaked attacked us at pearl harbor, they didn't go for densely populated civilian sectors. They went for military targets. While there was military infrastructure in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the biggest amount of damage was caused by the fact that we dropped nukes on densely populated civilian sectors, I don't consider it anything but an act of terror committed by us. 9/11 casualties pale in comparison to the amount of lives lost on that day and in my opinion the tragedies of both our nations are incomparable. Yet I still see Americans and our media making jokes or puns regarding dropping the nukes every single year. Until America as a whole learns to be more sensitive to other nations tragedies I don't think we deserve sensitivity when it comes to our tragedies.

well i think there are significant differences between comparing a war, and a terror event.  The attacks on japan was calculated, its intent to stop them abruptly, without further U.S casualties, because lets face it, we had a rather hard time with the island hopping campaign, as well as it went, we lost alot of troops, and we struggled on every one of the hundreds.  Now we had to attack the stronghold, a giant turtled enemy, and not lose money, troops, and support.  The alternative they chose, though seeming extreme, ended the war with far fewer American casualties at the expense of the Japanese, and in turn showed a military power that the world had never seen before.

But i wouldnt go as far as to say the Japanese never harmed anyone on the same scale, considering what they did to China.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_Nanking

[EponiCo]

It's true but the dynamics are more complicated than that in the long run. It is also a direct opportunity for poor wannabe entrepreneurs.
I am not familiar with that (or the usage of "whom" apparently). But anyway my reasoning is that work at miserable wages produces more value that can be sold for cheaper, increasing the life standard of whoever buys the products.

A worker earning 3000$ and working 8h will produce exactly the same value as one earning 1000$ and working 8h (assuming same performance ofc).
Mercylessly exploiting that a foreigner has so little opportunity to find a job he will do the same for a lot less is not exactly a role model for fairness. Arguably it's not racist, we aren't interested in that, just to get as much out of anyone for the least pay. Like Xant says this is only going to work out for people who aren't required to compete with them.
It might be a possible stance for someone who feels save to want the class gap as high as possible - although it would be ironic to talk about discrimination then - but it does cause longterm problems for the country. Having all the foreign low wage workers living in low rent areas where they are practically among themselves except for some frustrated natives having to do the same shitty jobs isn't integration after all.
We are tempted to consume value, it's cheap after all, while investments are going abroad. I don't think immigration plays really a big role in that regard but going abroad to low wage countries does. If it would be only done with unskilled labour we'd maybe be able to make sure we are keeping control of the money (or at least only spend in those countries we can expect to stay dependent). Exploitative as hell, but it would work out. Investing that cheap labour into the future (although we don't even know for what) would work. Consuming it away we will suddenly find ourselves in the situation where noone is going to work cheap for us anymore as we have nothing to offer in return. As things are working on more complex international logistics we are also ceeding more power to the giant companies that are able to manage them efficiently, which isn't all that good for the middle class.

[Molly]

(this is going to seem like a stereotype, however it is not! because he really does exist)  I can drive to the local BP station, which is owned by a middle eastern man of which country i couldnt tell you he was from, because he is straight business and wont talk to me anyways lol, and i can attempt to strike up small talk with him, however, i wouldnt ever dare say anything about the American/middle eastern conflict, simply out of respect for him.  [...]

This is something I have completely different experiences with. Tho I am not really an "involved party".
I've met a quite a few middle eastern people, meeting them for the first time, I came up with the question where they are from and what is their take on those conflicts. It was never offending, maybe they realized that I was asking out of honest curiosity.
I believe that you can talk to everyone about anything if the conversation is done with respect. Not asking although you wanna know and you're interested in the opinion has nothing to do with respect. My guess is that you simply are afraid that you won't like his answer when asked

One of the guys at my University is actually a fully educated Islamic priest and we had a lot of talks about those fundamentalists, women rights, the Scharia and other rather controversial stuff. And we barely knew each other at the beginning.
Maybe you're petrol station guy is an engineer where he came from? If you're curious, there is no reason not to ask - with a respectful question.

[Kafein]

If you walk around telling jokes about the US wars in the area to middle eastern people, some will get offended and some will not. This is exactly the reason why saying "it's offensive" like offensivity is an intrinsic property of whatever you are saying has no base in reality. It can be offensive to someone regardless of race religion nationality etc. but it can't be blanket offensive to e.g. "black people" or "americans" as a whole.

[Falka]

a middle eastern man of which country i couldnt tell you he was from, because he is straight business and wont talk to me anyways lol, and i can attempt to strike up small talk with him, however, i wouldnt ever dare say anything about the American/middle eastern conflict, simply out of respect for him. 

You'd like to have with this guy a small talk liek this: "hey you, yes, I'm talking to you, you filthy, stinky, arabian terrorist. What's up? Did we kill someone in your family in irak or afghanistan recently? Nope? Shame "?. If not, then why do you think talking about this "conflict" would mean lack of respect?

[kinngrimm]

ya thanks for posting your thoughts,

your welcome, but it wasnt done for your pleasure or on your behalf and

...
isnt discussion.

it still seems not to be a discussion, as you just thanked me but didn't respond on my "thoughts".
So if you really want a discoussion, i would expect arguments for or against the points i have made and not only letting me know how great that i am for sharing my thoughts ;)

Also even Kafein may have derailed a bit with his definitions and examples for how racism may work in the contrary to the normal imaginations, that then doesn't need to make you nessarily defensiv but you could have just seen it as a point of view from him which you don't share.
A short answer to Kafein, like "I don't share your perception/defenition of racism" may have ended that train of thought of Kafein perhaps earlier. As otherwise i imagine he may have seen himself to conclude his statements to a point he produces understanding on your side(Kafein please correct me if i am wrong there, this at least was the impresion i got)

[Kafein]

A short answer to Kafein, like "I don't share your perception/defenition of racism" may have ended that train of thought of Kafein perhaps earlier. As otherwise i imagine he may have seen himself to conclude his statements to a point he produces understanding on your side(Kafein please correct me if i am wrong there, this at least was the impresion i got)

Pretty much this. More fitting would be to say we do not define racsim the same way. I do not consider the definition of racism to be "the act of offending minorities" I consider it to be "changing your actions based on race".

[Kalam]

War should be justified the same way murder is, legally. Our rhetoric is effective enough that people don't see that.

[kinngrimm]

War should be justified the same way murder is, legally. Our rhetoric is effective enough that people don't see that.

i dont quite understand the second part of that sentence and disagree with the first part.
As far as i can tell, your statement implies there may actually be justifications for war.

While there are reasons such as greed, control, power and such like, there is only one real
"just war" and that is if you are the one being attacked and you are defending yourself.

Terror , is a Tactic not a Type/state of War. Politicians try to change often how language works to make us believe some very unusual and silly concepts. War on Drugs , Terrorism, Intelligence, ...

Keeping that in mind, a Terror attack is not an act of war, therefor not a reason to go to war over with another nation.
Normally you couldn't even point a Terror attack onto a different country but onto groups within that country.
These groups maybe accepted by the government of that country, that then still isnt a "just" reason to goto war with that country, to boycott them perhaps but not more. Wherby boycott also can be an attrosity and kind of terror, as if medicin isnt allowed into a country then you inflict death and pain and suffering onto people who weren't responsible for those Terror Attacks you try to punish.

A concept which seems to be complettly lost to the USA, is "Sovereignity of Nations". Have a look at the documentation "Dirty Wars", how many drone strikes had been done since Obama took over , how this type of terror makes the USA look like the thing they wanted to wage war against. Masters of Terror.

Do you feel safe now USA? When will it be enough? Is there anyone safe from you?

----------------------------------------
I know there are nice and friendly people in the USA, as in any country, China, Kora , Iran, Israel, anywhere ...
and then there are those fucked up politicians trying to scare the shit out of their population and get more tanks been build.
If your educational system ahsnt done a good job, you may not notice, even if it works you still may be fooled.
WMDs, Gold of Tnkin, Lusitania ... the amount of Falsflag operations which tricked the Population of the one or other nation into war is mindboggling.

[Xant]

there is only one real
"just war" and that is if you are the one being attacked and you are defending yourself.

What if another country is exterminating its populace systematically, would it not be just to attack that country and stop it?

[Kafein]

There is no such thing as a defensive war. Ever heard of preventive strikes ?

Rather, your side is always defending and the enemy is always the aggressor.