Author Topic: Re: Europeans they dont have feels  (Read 7166 times)

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Offline kinngrimm

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Re: Europeans they dont have feels
« Reply #90 on: October 27, 2013, 11:02:54 am »
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@Kafein
From my point of view, Preemptive Strike is already Language being changed by politicians so they can justify soemthing which is not to be justified.

@Xant
Everyone has the Right to defend himself against any agressor, may it be your own father beating the crap out of you, a group of children terroresing you or another country attacking you with weapons. If a conflict arises within a country, as with any conflict in the end it doesnt matter who started it aslong the conflict keeps getting heated up. Defining categories when a conflict, an uprise, a fight for freedom or agaisnt supression becomes a war is a difficult thing and i would want to take the easy way out and leave it to the historians to define.
From my own experience with violence, my ideals and hopes, as childish they may seem to some of you, i would prefer if people at some point would decide against a career with the army, would decide when they go into politics that helping their own people cant be done on the cost of the people of other countries, after all we have only this 1 World and we need all to get by.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Europeans they dont have feels
« Reply #91 on: October 27, 2013, 12:55:18 pm »
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My point is that neutrally determining who is the aggressor and who is the defender is always much more complicated than what it seems at first glance. Usually wars do not happen without some good or bad reasons behind them, which may include the defender being a dick.

Offline Falka

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Re: Europeans they dont have feels
« Reply #92 on: October 27, 2013, 02:20:34 pm »
-1
There is no such thing as a defensive war. Ever heard of preventive strikes ?

LOL Germany made "preventive strike" in 1939, yeah, seems legit.

My point is that neutrally determining who is the aggressor and who is the defender is always much more complicated than what it seems at first glance.

LOL
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Offline zagibu

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Re: Europeans they dont have feels
« Reply #93 on: October 27, 2013, 02:37:00 pm »
+1
Preventive strikes are not a defensive strategy, despite of what USA wants you to believe.
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Offline Xant

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Re: Europeans they dont have feels
« Reply #94 on: October 27, 2013, 05:17:32 pm »
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@Xant
Everyone has the Right to defend himself against any agressor, may it be your own father beating the crap out of you, a group of children terroresing you or another country attacking you with weapons. If a conflict arises within a country, as with any conflict in the end it doesnt matter who started it aslong the conflict keeps getting heated up. Defining categories when a conflict, an uprise, a fight for freedom or agaisnt supression becomes a war is a difficult thing and i would want to take the easy way out and leave it to the historians to define.
From my own experience with violence, my ideals and hopes, as childish they may seem to some of you, i would prefer if people at some point would decide against a career with the army, would decide when they go into politics that helping their own people cant be done on the cost of the people of other countries, after all we have only this 1 World and we need all to get by.
Huh? That doesn't answer my question at all.
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Offline rufio

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Re: Europeans they dont have feels
« Reply #95 on: October 27, 2013, 05:26:42 pm »
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dramaqueens
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Offline Joseph Porta

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Re: Europeans they dont have feels
« Reply #96 on: October 27, 2013, 08:06:21 pm »
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Only at c-rpg! Twenty-four drama!
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Offline Xant

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Re: Re: Europeans they dont have feels
« Reply #97 on: October 27, 2013, 08:16:01 pm »
+1
People who think there's drama in this thread must have some reading problems.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline kinngrimm

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Re: Europeans they dont have feels
« Reply #98 on: October 28, 2013, 03:41:34 am »
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What if another country is exterminating its populace systematically, would it not be just to attack that country and stop it?

I am not aware such ever had been done only because of that reason, but it is cosntantly used as reason more as excuse, as it makes the population of the helping/invading army feel much better about themselves, that is exactly for what that line of reasoning is been used.

To answer your question, in the case this happens, and it would "not" be about economical reasons, then it still "isn't just".
War is just only when you have to defend yourself, is a premise, a doctrin, a law, an unmovable object where when a lever applied would lift the wolrd from its hinges befor it becomes untrue.

Still i would feel morally obligated to intervene, as you make yourself accesory to the crime if you don't help.
Lets see it as an exception to the rule. Are there other exceptions, maybe, but there are not other ideals which would allow anyone to wage war other then to defend himself. If people would accept that, who would ever gofor an attack in the first place ... only criminals So anyone who attacks soemone is a criminal. If we define that in all of our constitutions or a treaty between/within the UN members, with a defined set of consequences and punishments for the criminals, ...

edit: several treaties concerning an international court, the USA didnt sign, instead a senator said in the parlament something like "if at anytime an US soldier would end up in front of that court, the US would invade denhaag if needed to set him free."
Perhaps we EU pussies need still a bit more trust from the USA to make this work, till then we just participate with the UN, situated in the USA.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 03:50:10 am by kinngrimm »
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Offline Joseph Porta

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Re: Europeans they dont have feels
« Reply #99 on: October 28, 2013, 09:09:58 am »
+1
Only at c-rpg! Twenty-four drama!
I loot corpses of their golden teeth.
But he'll be around somewhere between Heaven and The Devil, because neither of them will take him in, and he'll be farting loudly and singing a filthy song.

i'll be there at around
chadztime™

Offline Berserkadin

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Re: Europeans they dont have feels
« Reply #100 on: October 28, 2013, 09:12:14 am »
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What if another country is exterminating its populace systematically, would it not be just to attack that country and stop it?
Well USA nor any other western country feeled obliged to intervene in Rwanda when the Tutsis where massacred.
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Offline kinngrimm

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Re: Europeans they dont have feels
« Reply #101 on: October 28, 2013, 12:20:24 pm »
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Well USA nor any other western country feeled obliged to intervene in Rwanda when the Tutsis where massacred.
Most of the times, only economical, geopolitical, strategical reasons and such like will lead to a bigger form of military commitment.
Nowadays we are lucky when it is even called war. Drone Strikes in over 30 countries by US since the Iraq war II started.
The amount of black ops have increased skyrocketting, to be seen with the fact that JSOC Joint Special Operations Command, when started was doing blackops now and then, within the Iraq War II they pretty much took over the leadership position. From a deck of Cards of ennemies to a list of thousands of enemies and therfor nearly unlimmited power and rights to drone strikes.

For me it is not so much about the USA, any other bigger power would do pretty much the same if in the shoes of USA. Only if within the constitutions of all countries worldwide, these countries would agree on giving funds to the UN and we enable the UN to be a real power with good values, then we may see interventions because of and against attrosities. That but is not in the intrest of the superpowers to be, they want to be the big cahoones on the playground.
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Offline Xant

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Re: Europeans they dont have feels
« Reply #102 on: October 28, 2013, 12:56:43 pm »
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Well USA nor any other western country feeled obliged to intervene in Rwanda when the Tutsis where massacred.
And?
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Europeans they dont have feels
« Reply #103 on: October 28, 2013, 04:45:35 pm »
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Well USA nor any other western country feeled obliged to intervene in Rwanda when the Tutsis where massacred.

I can't even imagine how much worse it would have been if they did. France would be a nuclear wasteland by now.

Offline zagibu

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Re: Europeans they dont have feels
« Reply #104 on: October 29, 2013, 01:12:49 am »
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You know that they found radioactive traces in champagne a few years back? I don't think it needs bombs to turn France into a nuclear wasteland.
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