cRPG

Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: JackieChan on August 20, 2013, 08:47:09 pm

Title: Need help for a new PC
Post by: JackieChan on August 20, 2013, 08:47:09 pm
So yeah, im moving to a new apartement this september and i need a new computer. Since im limited in my budget (around 600 Euros), ill have to settle with a desktop. Im going to use the computer mainly for gaming and in my studies (computer graphics).

I see two possibilites for me, either:

I buy an already built computer, it cost more, but i am sure i have every thing i need. (like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1RKlaSOrFk)

Or i build one myself, with the risk of screwing up.

Please advise me
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Bjord on August 20, 2013, 09:01:09 pm
Quote from: JackieChan on August 20, 2013, 08:47:09 pm
Please advise me

Ok.

1. Get a gun
2. Shoot yourself
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 20, 2013, 09:02:40 pm
Build one yourself! If you aren't 100% sure on how to do so, have someone help you who has done it before (also the internet is a great resource).

Really there's only one major thing to overcome, getting the motherboard properly seated and installed in the case.  After that it's pretty damn easy to seat the processor/heatsink, memory, mount the power supply and plug in the cords, hard drive/cd/dvd, etc. 

I had replaced all the components of a computer before my first build, but I never had installed a motherboard.  I figured it couldn't be that hard, but I screwed up the first time I built mine.  On the case I had to screw in "female" receivers (where male screws come through the motherboard and into these receivers), but instead of only putting one on the case where it would be screwed in through the motherboard, I put them in every possible space on the case.  So it was shorting out my motherboard when I powered it up. 

Only other thing you need to think about, is software.  Do you have operating system software already (with a license) or can get your hands on some?  If you can't, it may make more sense to buy a computer that's already Windows licensed.

I'd honestly recommend building your own, you're going to get much better hardware than you would otherwise, and pay a lot less for it. Alternatively, you could probably hire someone to build it for less than $100 (not sure what it would be in Euro). 
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Vermilion on August 20, 2013, 09:09:37 pm
My advice -

If you haven't built a computer before and you need it for your education... You're probably better off buying a pre-built unit which comes from a reputable company with a decent warranty.

Just check every component (quite often they use a crap PSU)

That way if you have any issues it can get fixed quickly and not disrupt your education.


If you have built a computer before (or have the confidence to do it), I would do this. Focus your budget on buying a decent motherboard, CPU, PSU & graphics card.... You can upgrade case, monitor, RAM, CPU heatsink/fan etc later.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: JackieChan on August 20, 2013, 09:15:36 pm
Quote from: Bjord on August 20, 2013, 09:01:09 pm
Ok.

1. Get a gun
2. Shoot yourself
Why dont you do that yourself you fucking douchbag?


(click to show/hide)
Im probably going to get a pirated Win7. For the mother board and other component, i hope there are couple  of guides on how to build them in on internet



(click to show/hide)
I got couple of friends who could help me build the computer, i guess im going to do that



Is there any specific specs you guys would recommend?
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Torben on August 20, 2013, 09:21:13 pm
hm,  if you have the possibility invest the time you would spend on building and finetuning a rig into a weekends job,  make 200 extra bucks and get a decent prebuilt one : )
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: JackieChan on August 20, 2013, 09:25:04 pm
Quote from: Torben on August 20, 2013, 09:21:13 pm
hm,  if you have the possibility invest the time you would spend on building and finetuning a rig into a weekends job,  make 200 bucks and get a decent prebuilt one : )
Well i got the most of the 600 euros by working already ^^
I kinda need the computer for september, I dont think im ready to wait couple of weeks/days in my apartement without one :x

Will it take long to build a comp myself?
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 20, 2013, 09:26:57 pm
No specific specs other than just general advice:

I think AMD processors are better bang for your buck.  Intel is the superior processor (for example comparing a quad core 3.2ghz intel vs amd, intel is going to be "25%" better) but you could then buy an AMD processor that is 25% more powerful than the 3.2ghz model, and you'd still be saving a lot of money compared to going with the 3.2ghz intel proc.  Just pulling these numbers out of my ass to give an example.

I'm on my 2nd build for myself and my bro (so 4 computers spanning 2 generations) that have been running AMD processors. 

On that note however, I had terrible success with AMD (was ATI before AMD took over) Radeon video cards.  I had a slightly more powerful card than my bro's Nvidia, but after a few years of running these cards, I was unable to play any newer games that were coming out due to AMD only offering a legacy driver for my gfx card, and most of the newer games would show massive black lines throughout the game (due to driver incompatibility issues).  That really pissed me off that I had a better graphics card than my bro, but he was still able to keep using his long after I had to upgrade mine (due to artificial reasons, nothing physically wrong with the card). 

It shouldn't take you more than an hour to put the computer together if you're being careful...certainly less than 2 hours even if you were being extremely tedious.  And about another hour to install Windows and download all the other crap you need (anti-virus, adobe flash/shockwave/reader, java, quick time, etc).

If you can, use your friends (or one of them) to help you put your computer together.  Would probably be a good idea to have them help you spec out the parts for it as well.  if you can't have your friend help you, than I would certainly watch some videos online about putting a computer together.  I know Newegg.com (probably not what you want to use outside the USA) has a good section on building your own PC.

The biggest thing to remember when ordering is to make sure everything is compatible with the motherboard.  Make sure the CPU is compatible as well as the memory.  make sure you have enough memory slots so you can expand in the future (I'd recommend 4 memory slots).  Also decide if you need USB 3.0 compatibility or not (will increase the price, but if you have something that uses USB 3.0 it's well worth the money due to the higher transfer speeds).  Do you need two PCI express ports for two video cards?  If you don't ever plan on running 2 video cards, make sure the one you buy only has one (two is going to cost you more).

I love newegg.com, hopefully you have something similar you can use where you're from.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Kafein on August 20, 2013, 09:30:59 pm
Sur materiel.net tu peux choisir les parts toi-meme et demander que eux le montent.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Torben on August 20, 2013, 09:34:34 pm
Quote from: Kafein on August 20, 2013, 09:30:59 pm
Sur materiel.net tu peux choisir les parts toi-meme et demander que eux le montent.

ye but isnt part of the magic to use components that work well together?  or does every shit work great together these days?  I really am totally out of date so maybe ignore me ^^

ps:  yeah amd ftw!
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Herkkutatti666 on August 20, 2013, 09:46:28 pm
Quote from: Bjord on August 20, 2013, 09:01:09 pm
Ok.

1. Get a gun
2. Shoot yourself
pretty much this. (also suggesting that bjord does this too)
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Bjord on August 20, 2013, 09:50:50 pm
Quote from: Morso on August 20, 2013, 09:46:28 pm
pretty much this. (also suggesting that bjord does this too)

ladies first (you)
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Vermilion on August 20, 2013, 10:02:51 pm
Quote from: JackieChan on August 20, 2013, 09:15:36 pm
Is there any specific specs you guys would recommend?

The eternal debate..

Everyone has the own preference in manufacture/spec.

Make sure you read reviews and check against other products of sites such as cpubenchmark.net

Watch some youtube videos on building your own computer (check for the manufactures page, don't watch some random 12 year old hit his computer with hammer)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Clockworkkiller on August 20, 2013, 10:04:15 pm
always build it yourself!

its cheaper, you can build a rig thats more powerful than many pre-built ones at a lower price.
and you get to learn somethings about PCs
installing the components is easy, just follow the directions on how to install them
(if they come with directions, if not, lots of guides on the internet)
and make sure you dont let static buildup, dont work on carpets, and regularly touch the metal case when building

or, you could just upgrade the parts from your current pc, keep the case, fans, and whatever other components you think are good, and upgrade the rest

when i built my first pc, i was scared too, but once when you install the first part, you get over it quickly and acutally start to enjoy it.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: JackieChan on August 20, 2013, 10:33:20 pm
thanks for the help and advice guys!
Ill look around for a spec and post it here
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Tor! on August 20, 2013, 10:41:35 pm
Good luck Jackie, would love to see what rig you end up building!  8-)
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Kafein on August 20, 2013, 10:41:50 pm
Quote from: Torben on August 20, 2013, 09:34:34 pm
ye but isnt part of the magic to use components that work well together?  or does every shit work great together these days?  I really am totally out of date so maybe ignore me ^^

ps:  yeah amd ftw!

The point of chosing your own parts is to get a more powerful and safer machine out of less money. Most retailers will ship you a PC with no CPU fan, a terrible case and worst of all a shit PSU for 600 euros.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: zagibu on August 20, 2013, 11:54:57 pm
Quote from: Torben on August 20, 2013, 09:34:34 pm
or does every shit work great together these days?

It's better than ten years ago, but you can still run into compatibility issues, especially with mobo + RAM and mobo + PSU combos.

If you tell me where you intend to buy, I should be able to compose a list of parts that work well together and get max performance for the set price.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Silicium on August 20, 2013, 11:57:19 pm
Cymro just made a pc, ill get him to reply
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 21, 2013, 12:00:05 am
Do you have a monitor, windows 7?

I recently built one for £950 .

http://www.ebuyer.com/lists/list/220537

^^That was my final build and it is fucking sweet

You can get much cheaper spoecs though.

So go for maybe a 660 nvidia card rather than a 760 that saves you £100, if you have a monitor and windows 7 that saves you around 180, minusing the extras i bought and with a 660 it cost around £600 ( i bought some extras, canny remember them right now though)

Before i forget order a smaller case that one is Large, i bought the wrong one but the graphics card only just fits in this one, so a 660 should fit in a smaller model case.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Vermilion on August 21, 2013, 01:11:56 am
WD green as your main drive???

The green series is basically for back-ups (slow, quiet and low power consumption)

If you're having a HDD as your primary drive I would go Black series (only about £10 more)

If you're getting a SSD as your primary, then I would go for Black/Blue series for your data
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Sniger on August 21, 2013, 01:55:43 am
no matter what... get a SSD :)
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Casimir on August 21, 2013, 03:44:34 am
Why you guys no hwlpe find a laptop!?
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: AntiBlitz on August 21, 2013, 04:26:04 am
FrankieonPC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1RKlaSOrFk&feature=c4-overview&list=UUxbivvwPkudpfWrLQHGHQyw

He literally just posted this video a few days ago on this same topic.

here is the link to the store page:http://goo.gl/dSyZNY
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Rumblood on August 21, 2013, 07:28:28 am
Quote from: Sniger on August 21, 2013, 01:55:43 am
no matter what... get a SSD :)

Not on a budget. Get enough RAM, as it is very cheap even for great RAM, to load the program into memory. Once it is loaded, that SSD is a fancy device that sits there until you need to read from it again.

So you've got 600 Euro's? About $800. So here is a sample. This is geared to be a gaming PC and for your Graphics studies. Meaning, you need to put as much into your video card as you can, except for rendering, which as I understand it is CPU based for Maya, not sure about 3DS Max, but likely the same. So you want a decent multi-core processor as well, with enough RAM to hold what you are running in memory.

I would start with this GTX 760. Price $250
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130935&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-Desktop+Graphics+Cards-_-N82E16814130935&gclid=COyBnvbajbkCFeHm7AodiRgAeg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130935&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-Desktop+Graphics+Cards-_-N82E16814130935&gclid=COyBnvbajbkCFeHm7AodiRgAeg)

Then grab an 8 core AMD processor and motherboard combo. Price $275
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1400909 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1400909)

8GB of RAM should do fine. Price about $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233180 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233180)

Alright. That puts you at about $600 with another $200 to spend on your case, power supply, hard drive, etc.

While an SSD drive is cool to have, it is totally not necessary and costs 2x-5x+ over a standard hard drive. You can get this 1TB drive for half the price of a 256GB SSD. $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148840 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148840)

Leaves us with $130

Case ATX mid-tower and 3 fans for $45
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147153 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147153)

So $85 for a power supply.

CoolerMaster 750W for $60
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171053 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171053)

Now I was looking at the cpu/motherboard combo, and it didn't appear to come with a heatsink. I know we've only got $25 left in the budget, but if you can find the extra cash, I recommend this liquid cooling solution for $60, putting you $35 over budget.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010110575%201377228279&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=20 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010110575%201377228279&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=20)
If not, well you can get a standard heatsink/fan for your cpu for as little as $10
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010110575%201377228279&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=20 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010110575%201377228279&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=20)

Now, you are still missing some key components, like a CD-ROM drive, a monitor, keyboard/mouse, but those are parts that usually move from the old PC to the new one (the hard drive too often times)

If that is not the case, then you may have some tough decisions, to make, especially if you don't have a monitor. Here's what you can do to free up some cash, but I wouldn't start here if you can help it. It will serve your purpose, but you'll probably look to upgrade in the next year or so, whereas with the specs above, you should get 2-3 years out of it at least without needing to upgrade anything.

So if needing a monitor too, get the GTX 650 Ti (notice the Ti! Do not get just the GTX 650, it blows) which will save you about $70.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130910 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130910)

That will get you within $10 of a refurbished 19" monitor with 1280x1024 resolution, which that GTX 650Ti will be fine with.

You could also save another $70-$80 by dropping to a quad-core cpu, but if you are going to be rendering from a 3D graphics program, I really would not recommend that you do that. Also, I put the first 3 items first because they are what matters the most. They are also where you can trim the most cash if you find yourself in a pinch, but really, try not to go low on those. Scavenge a CD drive from a PC someone tossed out, or find one at a thrift shop, or ask your friends if they have an old spare. Same thing with keyboard/mouse. Hell, I have a few of those if you lived nearby that you could have. I've even got a monitor that is a spare in case one of the current ones go out.

Finally, here is a video from NewEgg on building your PC. Yes, I like NewEgg. Their prices are good and their items work, and the one time I had an issue, I simply returned it to them after they shipped me the replacement.






Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Gnjus on August 21, 2013, 08:32:36 am
Quote from: SirCymro_Crusader on August 21, 2013, 12:00:05 am
(click to show/hide)

Nice work there Crymoar, that Arctic Cooler Freezer is a good cooler, I've had it in my last computer but unfortunately after a year of heavy issues I had to disintegrate it as I couldn't find the source of all my problems, probably some hardware incompatibility (very very long story, trust me). I've got a new rig now called Gamer Dominator with http://ark.intel.com/products/75124/ inside, SSD, awesome graphic card, etc. so I shouldn't be having problems anymore. 8-)
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 21, 2013, 04:52:33 pm
Quote from: Sniger on August 21, 2013, 01:55:43 am
no matter what... get a SSD :)

When he's only got 600 Euro to spend?  You're delusional.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: JackieChan on August 24, 2013, 08:11:07 pm
So i asked a french guy if he could help me with this and they gave me this link:
http://www.materiel.net/ordinateur/materiel-net-arkane-pc-gamer-93199.html
He told me that this would be good for around 600 euro computer.
He also added that if i could put a little more cash (200 euros), i could get my hand on an even better spec:
http://www.materiel.net/ordinateur/materiel-net-oxygen-mk1-lvlup-haswell-pc-gamer-94758.html

Both of the computers are already built, i could just buy all the seperate parts and build it myself to reduce the price.
(If u scroll down theres the list of the components, if u need help with the translation just tell me :p)

What do you guys think about it? Is worth it that i add 200 euros more?
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Rumblood on August 24, 2013, 08:52:56 pm
Quote from: JackieChan on August 24, 2013, 08:11:07 pm
So i asked a french guy if he could help me with this and they gave me this link:
http://www.materiel.net/ordinateur/materiel-net-arkane-pc-gamer-93199.html
He told me that this would be good for around 600 euro computer.
He also added that if i could put a little more cash (200 euros), i could get my hand on an even better spec:
http://www.materiel.net/ordinateur/materiel-net-oxygen-mk1-lvlup-haswell-pc-gamer-94758.html

Both of the computers are already built, i could just buy all the seperate parts and build it myself to reduce the price.
(If u scroll down theres the list of the components, if u need help with the translation just tell me :p)

What do you guys think about it? Is worth it that i add 200 euros more?

...I posted a FAR better computer for the same price. Like, it stomps that one into the dirt...
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Vermilion on August 24, 2013, 09:01:02 pm
The second one (more expensive) is better.. but neither come with an operating system, both have crap PSU's etc, no monitors/peripherals

So your budget is the main issue. (The first is already maxing your budget)

Put a list together of the price you can get all the parts at (including your peripherals etc)

(click to show/hide)

The current PSU are crap for a gaming computer.. you need to go above the minimum power requirements (eg for the second graphics card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 you need about a 750W PSU not the 500 minimum)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Rumblood on August 24, 2013, 09:05:22 pm
Quote from: Vermilion on August 24, 2013, 09:01:02 pm
The second one (more expensive) is better.. but neither come with an operating system, both have crap PSU's etc, no monitors/peripherals

So your budget is the main issue. (The first is already maxing your budget)

Put a list together of the price you can get all the parts at (including your peripherals etc)

(click to show/hide)

The current PSU are crap for a gaming computer.. you need to go above the minimum power requirements (eg for the second graphics card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 you need about a 750W PSU not the 500 minimum)

(click to show/hide)

I put together a list and prices of all the parts, including a GTX 760 and a 750 W PSU to go with it, not to mention an 8 core AMD instead of a 4 core, and that's for alot closer to 600 Euro and not 800. If I put together a parts and price list for 800 Euro it would be even better.  :idea:

I could take the time to put the Euro cost instead of dollar cost, which I stated the total Euro cost at the beginning. But if the effort is just going to be ignored, I'm not going to bother. But then, perhaps the item cost is WAY more expensive over there.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Vermilion on August 24, 2013, 09:23:24 pm
Quote from: Rumblood on August 24, 2013, 09:05:22 pm
I put together a list and prices of all the parts, including a GTX 760 and a 750 W PSU to go with it, not to mention an 8 core AMD instead of a 4 core, and that's for alot closer to 600 Euro and not 800. If I put together a parts and price list for 800 Euro it would be even better.  :idea:

I could take the time to put the Euro cost instead of dollar cost, which I stated the total Euro cost at the beginning. But if the effort is just going to be ignored, I'm not going to bother. But then, perhaps the item cost is WAY more expensive over there.

My post was in reply to Jackies not yours.. but as you've bought it up

Personally i wouldn't go with a coolmaster PSU..
The benchmark for the 8 core AMD you suggested is lower than the I5 Jackie posted but on a budget would be my preferred option (get the AMD processor and a better PSU for the same(ish) price as the I5 and a lower quality PSU).

Also your post didn't include any peripherals/OS and you maxed out the original 600 euro budget.

Other than that I thought your build suggestion was very good and Jackie should consider it (if he can afford it)
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: JackieChan on August 24, 2013, 10:17:01 pm
Quote from: Rumblood on August 21, 2013, 07:28:28 am
(click to show/hide)
Sorry for not paying enough attention at your post, theres so many people that gave their advice i need to look everyone's one by one ^^
This seems like im going  to take this, as it seems to be in line with by budget and it will satisfy all my needs. thanks alot for your help :)
I got a question tho, does NewEgg delivers in Europe?
If not theres probably the same sort of website in Europe somewhere

So thanks to Rumblood, the specs will be:
Processor: 8 core AMD processor and motherboard combo (205 EUR)
Graphic card:GeForce GTX 760 2GB (185EUR)
Ram: CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB) (50EUR)
Hard drive: Seagate Barracuda 1TB (50EUR)
Case: Case ATX mid-tower and 3 fans (30EUR)
Power supply: CoolerMaster 750W (45 EUR)
heatsink for the cpu/motherboard combo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103179 (40 EUR)

Which gives a total of 605 Euros. Perfect budget wise.

As for the other components like Mouse/ keyboard and CD-ROM drive, i can go a bit over the budget as im just going to look out for the cheapest around.

I doesnt really matter if the specs go a little above the budget as it is flexible (to a certain point)

edit: ah  i just saw Vermilion post, ill look at it
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Rumblood on August 25, 2013, 01:10:20 am
Quote from: Vermilion on August 24, 2013, 09:23:24 pm
My post was in reply to Jackies not yours.. but as you've bought it up

Personally i wouldn't go with a coolmaster PSU..
The benchmark for the 8 core AMD you suggested is lower than the I5 Jackie posted but on a budget would be my preferred option (get the AMD processor and a better PSU for the same(ish) price as the I5 and a lower quality PSU).

Also your post didn't include any peripherals/OS and you maxed out the original 600 euro budget.

Other than that I thought your build suggestion was very good and Jackie should consider it (if he can afford it)

Yeah, there are better PSU's, but on a budget, I've used the Coolermaster in my kids PC's without an issue. Like I said, without the budget the build would look a bit diffferent. The i5 processor is for an 800 Euro budget, the AMD 8 core is for a 600 Euro budget. if I had another 200 Euro to throw at it, I would get the i7 3770k processor, bump the RAM up to 16GB or bump the video card up to a GTX 770 and get a better PSU.  :wink:

Jackie, NewEgg doesn't deliver to Europe. This site delivers to the U.K. and worldwide it says. I checked some random countries on the continent and the shipping prices didn't seem to go up an outrageous amount. I spot checked some of the components and the pricing looks very comparable.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/index.php (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/index.php)
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: zagibu on August 25, 2013, 01:15:11 am
Quote from: Vermilion on August 24, 2013, 09:01:02 pm
The second one (more expensive) is better.. but neither come with an operating system, both have crap PSU's etc, no monitors/peripherals

So your budget is the main issue. (The first is already maxing your budget)

Put a list together of the price you can get all the parts at (including your peripherals etc)

(click to show/hide)

The current PSU are crap for a gaming computer.. you need to go above the minimum power requirements (eg for the second graphics card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 you need about a 750W PSU not the 500 minimum)

(click to show/hide)

A 750W PSU, wtf. You could power 2 PCs with that, maybe even three.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Rumblood on August 25, 2013, 01:24:10 am
Quote from: zagibu on August 25, 2013, 01:15:11 am
A 750W PSU, wtf. You could power 2 PCs with that, maybe even three.

Sure, with lower end components you could. PSU's are most efficient at around 60-80% load. GTX 760 recommended is a 600W PSU. 750W x 80% = 600W. So you want a 750W PSU. Accounting for some additional overhead, you might even want to go a bit higher.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Silicium on August 25, 2013, 01:43:32 am
You're wrong the i5-4670 is a pretty good cpu in regards of how low priced it is, if you looked at how other processor do in the same range, the only thing he could get for better performance is the i7 but he would need to throw about hundred more euro's.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Vermilion on August 25, 2013, 01:58:26 am
Quote from: Silicium on August 25, 2013, 01:43:32 am
You're wrong the i5-4670 is a pretty good cpu in regards of how low priced it is, if you looked at how other processor do in the same range, the only thing he could get for better performance is the i7 but he would need to throw about hundred more euro's.

Who's wrong? No one has put down the I5..

We just said the AMD FX-8120 would be better for his budget
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: zagibu on August 25, 2013, 02:20:23 am
Quote from: Rumblood on August 25, 2013, 01:24:10 am
Sure, with lower end components you could. PSU's are most efficient at around 60-80% load. GTX 760 recommended is a 600W PSU. 750W x 80% = 600W. So you want a 750W PSU. Accounting for some additional overhead, you might even want to go a bit higher.

Please, can you explain to me how a card that has a power consumption of ~160 Watts on full load warrants the installation of a 750W PSU? Do you really think the rest of his system consumes that much power?

Please don't support the PSU craze.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Silicium on August 25, 2013, 02:22:15 am
Quote from: Vermilion on August 25, 2013, 01:58:26 am
Who's wrong? No one has put down the I5..

We just said the AMD FX-8120 would be better for his budget
Was referring to you, you didn't end your sentence between the cpu benchmark and where you spoke about the psu with a dot so i assumed you were speaking of both.

Just a simple misunderstanding.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Vermilion on August 25, 2013, 02:25:53 am
Quote from: Silicium on August 25, 2013, 02:22:15 am
Was referring to you, you didn't end your sentence between the cpu benchmark and where you spoke about the psu with a dot so i assumed you were speaking of both.

Just a simple misunderstanding.

Fair enough :)
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Rumblood on August 25, 2013, 02:51:57 am
Quote from: zagibu on August 25, 2013, 02:20:23 am
Please, can you explain to me how a card that has a power consumption of ~160 Watts on full load warrants the installation of a 750W PSU? Do you really think the rest of his system consumes that much power?

Please don't support the PSU craze.

Toss in the CPU at 240 Watts at the very low end, it could get to be double that with overclocking, another 50-100W for the motherboard/memory/CD-Rom/Fans/Hard Drives and you are at 450W already (or 60% of continuous PSU rating). What happens when he decides that he has the cash and desire for another GTX 760 to run in SLI or overclocks that single card GPU or CPU? He'll be looking to purchase another PSU that can support it or have a system that either 1: Won't boot or 2: Won't work properly with weird BSD errors and such that will have him scratching his head wondering what component broke. That's assuming he doesn't 3: smoke check the inadequate power supply, taking other valuable PC components along with it. Also, the minimum recommended system power for the GTX 760 is 500W. Minimum

The danger of too much Wattage? Inefficient usage under lower loads (which he is in no danger of with a 750W PSU and these components)
The danger of too little Wattage? A PC that doesn't boot, or has weird issues that puzzle the user, or you blow out the PSU and possibly other components. At the very least, it will be inefficient due to loss in extra heat and contribute to a heating problem with the PC.

Please don't tell people to gamble with their equipment in order save a few pennies.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Molly on August 25, 2013, 08:28:26 am
I haven't checked the market for a while so I don't really know what's hot and what not...

...but I noticed the 8 cores on the cpu. I just want to state that there is no practical use for that amount of cores and there won't be for the years to come. :?

That's all really.

Enjoy your new rig :D Yes, I am jelly :(
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: zagibu on August 25, 2013, 11:32:09 am
Quote from: Rumblood on August 25, 2013, 02:51:57 am
Toss in the CPU at 240 Watts at the very low end, it could get to be double that with overclocking, another 50-100W for the motherboard/memory/CD-Rom/Fans/Hard Drives and you are at 450W already (or 60% of continuous PSU rating). What happens when he decides that he has the cash and desire for another GTX 760 to run in SLI or overclocks that single card GPU or CPU? He'll be looking to purchase another PSU that can support it or have a system that either 1: Won't boot or 2: Won't work properly with weird BSD errors and such that will have him scratching his head wondering what component broke. That's assuming he doesn't 3: smoke check the inadequate power supply, taking other valuable PC components along with it. Also, the minimum recommended system power for the GTX 760 is 500W. Minimum

The danger of too much Wattage? Inefficient usage under lower loads (which he is in no danger of with a 750W PSU and these components)
The danger of too little Wattage? A PC that doesn't boot, or has weird issues that puzzle the user, or you blow out the PSU and possibly other components. At the very least, it will be inefficient due to loss in extra heat and contribute to a heating problem with the PC.

Please don't tell people to gamble with their equipment in order save a few pennies.

A CPU that consumes 240W? I think you are confusing total system power consumption figures with component power consumption. There is no CPU currently that consumes much more than 100W on full load. Another 100W for the rest of the system components is practically impossible to surpass, you'd need like 10 fans and 4 highspeed HDs to even scratch it.

Please don't tell people to blindly buy into the PSU craze. PSUs are very simple and cheap to produce components compared to e.g. CPUs, yet the vendors price them artificially high because they can feed off the uninformed masses that just think "me needs more powa".
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Rumblood on August 25, 2013, 05:56:42 pm
Quote from: benkei on August 25, 2013, 08:28:26 am
I haven't checked the market for a while so I don't really know what's hot and what not...

...but I noticed the 8 cores on the cpu. I just want to state that there is no practical use for that amount of cores and there won't be for the years to come. :?

That's all really.

Enjoy your new rig :D Yes, I am jelly :(

Sorry but you are wrong. He is going to be using this machine for graphics rendering.

http://greyscalegorilla.com/blog/2010/11/12-core-vs-8-core-vs-2-core-cinema-4-render-speed-test/ (http://greyscalegorilla.com/blog/2010/11/12-core-vs-8-core-vs-2-core-cinema-4-render-speed-test/)

Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Molly on August 25, 2013, 06:16:20 pm
Yea, I didn't read the first post.  :oops:

...but when he is specificly trying to work on multiple cores, then the RAM is kinda low. I know that Adobe products for example can use multiple cores when activated in the preferences but the all acquire their own little piece of ram. So there might even be proper usefulness in more RAM than the 8GB...
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: zagibu on August 25, 2013, 06:19:54 pm
Quote from: Rumblood on August 25, 2013, 05:56:42 pm
Sorry but you are wrong. He is going to be using this machine for graphics rendering.

http://greyscalegorilla.com/blog/2010/11/12-core-vs-8-core-vs-2-core-cinema-4-render-speed-test/ (http://greyscalegorilla.com/blog/2010/11/12-core-vs-8-core-vs-2-core-cinema-4-render-speed-test/)

Maybe I missed the post where he said he'd use it for non-realtime graphics rendering. But even then, the CPU you suggested consumes 100 Watts less on full load than what you claim a "very low end" CPU should consume. And AMD chips aren't really known for their power efficiency.

And Benkei is right, if he's going to use the PC for non-realtime graphics rendering, more RAM will be needed.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Senni__Ti on August 25, 2013, 07:03:01 pm
Quote from: JackieChan on August 24, 2013, 10:17:01 pm
So thanks to Rumblood, the specs will be:
Processor: 8 core AMD processor and motherboard combo (205 EUR)
Graphic card:GeForce GTX 760 2GB (185EUR)
Ram: CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB) (50EUR)
Hard drive: Seagate Barracuda 1TB (50EUR)
Case: Case ATX mid-tower and 3 fans (30EUR)
Power supply: CoolerMaster 750W (45 EUR)
heatsink for the cpu/motherboard combo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103179 (40 EUR)

Which gives a total of 605 Euros. Perfect budget wise.

As for the other components like Mouse/ keyboard and CD-ROM drive, i can go a bit over the budget as im just going to look out for the cheapest around.
Motherboard + CPU wise:
Pretty sure you can't order anything from NA without paying some sort of fee ontop. (Usually import tax, and ofcourse shipping :P).
Motherboard
http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/Mainboards/AMD-Mainboards/AMD-Sockel-AM3/AM3/ASRock-990FX-Extreme4-AMD-990FX-Mainboard-Sockel-AM3::17992.html
CPU
http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/Prozessoren/Sockel-AM2/AM3/AM3-AMD/AMD-FX-8120-8-Core-31-GHz-Bulldozer-125W-boxed::17609.html
264 EURO

It's worth keeping in mind, current generation games usually focus on one or two cores. Generally, AMD CPUs don't have the best performance in that area.

Then again, games that will be arriving as ports from the next gen consoles will probably be optimized for ~8 cores (I'm not psychic so don't shoot me if I'm wrong :P).
So theoretically, an AMD CPU would be superior for those games. (Intel CPUs as a whole are great for anything that doesn't use many cores, and reasonable for highly multi-threaded programs/applications. Physical cores tend to be better than hyper-threaded (what intel does).)

The CPU you're looking at won't be particularly fast for pretty much all of the currently available games. (Particularly warband which seems to hate multi-threading)

PSU wise:
Also, the 600W requirement of the 760 is crap :p (the 780 has exactly the same requirement). In order to get the best use out of your PSU, you need to be within ~100W of the max.
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_gtx_760_review,5.html 169W Just GPU
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-760-review-gk104,3542-22.html 155W Just GPU

http://hothardware.com/Reviews/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-760-Review-/?page=12 379W Full system, 3960X used (VERY demanding CPU)
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/nvidia_gtx760/12.htm 297W Pretty sure this is full system, using 2600k OC @4.4ghz (similar level to your cpu)

Nice calc below
http://support.asus.com/powersupply.aspx
Suggested 550W if you have a 3570, 650W if you have a 8120, 750W is overkill. (I have a 700W for my system and it's more demanding power wise than your build).

And the PSU type REALLY matters. A bad PSU can destroy your PC when it dies, a good one will (probably) only take out itself when it dies.
http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/Netzteile/Corsair/Corsair-Enthusiast-Series-650TX-V2-Netzteil-650-Watt::16420.html
A decent PSU, expensive, but hopefully worth it :p. You could get away with a smaller wattage. But Rumblood is right, having slightly too much isn't terrible, having too few is :P.

Graphics card wise:
I would go with Nvidia personally over AMD (as you already have). However, AMD is about to release it's next gen of graphics cards (8000 series, though there are rumours of the 9000 series Oo). ~October

Even if you still go Nvidia, it will knock the prices down.
A) Because it's the run up to Christmas.
B) Nvidia currently has free range and won't then.

In terms of everything, I would look through local computer part websites, try and find a reliable one with decent warranties. Also because the prices you have atm will probably be off.

PS: sorry for the wall :P
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Rumblood on August 26, 2013, 04:25:32 am
Quote from: zagibu on August 25, 2013, 06:19:54 pm
Maybe I missed the post where he said he'd use it for non-realtime graphics rendering. But even then, the CPU you suggested consumes 100 Watts less on full load than what you claim a "very low end" CPU should consume. And AMD chips aren't really known for their power efficiency.

And Benkei is right, if he's going to use the PC for non-realtime graphics rendering, more RAM will be needed.

More Euro's are needed.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Sniger on August 26, 2013, 03:38:27 pm
Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on August 21, 2013, 04:52:33 pm
When he's only got 600 Euro to spend?  You're delusional.

no u.

SSD is not a rich mans HDD anymore. im certainly not rich (!). check the prices. if you still swear to old, noisy, slow, annoying, power consuming HDD's you must be an oldschool downloader who think that size is all that matters.

i just upgraded my rig i got a gtx660 and a 128gb plextor ssd. i paid less than 2500DKR.

windows starting in 10sec, general window tasks is like twice as fast... i can deploy an image in no time at all... try deploy an image on a regular "analog" HDD... will take ages you can might as well reinstall using the DVD. i refuse to live without it now that i got it. once you go SSD you neva go back. imo :p
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 26, 2013, 04:10:48 pm
No, I think that when you only have 600 euro (about $800 US), and trying to put a full rig together, your money is better spent on other things than an SSD.  Especially if you don't already have a hard drive or some sort of external storage.

I also run an SSD in my rig.  But I don't think it's that important
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Sniger on August 26, 2013, 04:42:18 pm
no matter. if i had just $800 a SSD would still be the first thing on my upgrade list.

some people use their comp for other stuff than gaming :)
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Sniger on August 26, 2013, 04:49:04 pm
Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on August 26, 2013, 04:10:48 pm
I also run an SSD in my rig.  But I don't think it's that important

tbh, no offence, but if you say SSD is not important, i dont belive you are a SSD user.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Sniger on August 26, 2013, 04:51:27 pm
lol its the damn spinning HDD thats the frikkin bottleneck! everybody knows that xD
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 26, 2013, 05:07:32 pm
I think I found your problem Sniger.  Jackie's not upgrading, he's building a new desktop from scratch. 

For me the SSD is a big deal because I only have 8 GB of memory.  If you have 16 GB of memory, you really don't have much need for an SSD.  The normal 7200 rpm SATA hard drives are the bottleneck on a lot of systems nowadays (or the BUS transfer speeds on the motherboard). 

But if you only have $800 to spend, to build a brand new desktop from scratch (one that you can game on, or do graphic editing), an SSD is not going to be a wise use of the money.

When your processor and graphics card can easily take up $400 (half of the amount), I think spending another $150 on an SSD is a terrible use of your money (and that's not even going to get you 250 GB of space). 

I'm not arguing that an SSD isn't much better than a platter hard drive (the difference is literally night and day), but you can get around this with enough memory.  He's going to need a decent amount of memory anyways due to graphic editing, so I wouldn't be able to justify spending money on an SSD.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Rumblood on August 26, 2013, 06:29:46 pm
Quote from: Sniger on August 26, 2013, 04:51:27 pm
lol its the damn spinning HDD thats the frikkin bottleneck! everybody knows that xD

You know what that SSD drive does for you once your program is loaded into memory? Nothing. All you get is better load times, which isn't worth sacrificing the other components which are working 100% of the time.

Spend your money on SSD and sacrifice memory and guess what? Your programs run slower because even though an SSD is faster than a spinning disc, it is FAR slower than RAM when you are loading pieces of a program in an out because you didn't get enough memory. So when you have a choice between an SSD drive or more RAM, always get more RAM.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Senni__Ti on August 26, 2013, 08:02:22 pm
Most programs are limited to 4gb of memory address space. (games in particular)
So around 8gb is good for games.

However if he is doing a lot of rendering, 16gb would be a decent starting point (2 x 8gb). Depending on the motherboard, should leave 2 slots available for 32gb if he found he needed it.

SSD wise, they are nice, but they aren't the cheapest. Currently it's a real squeeze to get everything into the 600 EURO budget. If you add a ~100 EURO SSD, it will probably be 120gb in size (or rubbish quality). Therefore you would have to keep the other HDD, so it's just additional cost, and the money has to come from somewhere. Which would mean downgrading either many things, or one thing a lot e.g. the GPU down to a ~100 EURO GPU.

While SSD's are great, I don't think they are worth downgrading the CPU or GPU.
It is a nice upgrade you can add later on, for little cost (comparatively), but with a decent boost in performance. (Upgrading CPU or GPU would be far more expensive, and I don't think any motherboard in jackie's price range is SLI compatible -> so no 2x GPUs).
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Kafein on August 26, 2013, 09:41:32 pm
Quote from: Rumblood on August 26, 2013, 06:29:46 pm
You know what that SSD drive does for you once your program is loaded into memory? Nothing. All you get is better load times, which isn't worth sacrificing the other components which are working 100% of the time.

Spend your money on SSD and sacrifice memory and guess what? Your programs run slower because even though an SSD is faster than a spinning disc, it is FAR slower than RAM when you are loading pieces of a program in an out because you didn't get enough memory. So when you have a choice between an SSD drive or more RAM, always get more RAM.

More than 8Gb has very little use today. That amount of memory under normal use will not fill up and you'll never have to use your hard disk as additional memory (most programs don't like this anyway, it's almost an antique technique now). It's the exact same phenomenon as with hard disks, and for speed you'd be better getting more cache. That is, a better processor.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Nightmare798 on August 26, 2013, 09:47:33 pm
Quote from: JackieChan on August 20, 2013, 08:47:09 pm
So yeah, im moving to a new apartement this september and i need a new computer. Since im limited in my budget (around 600 Euros), ill have to settle with a desktop. Im going to use the computer mainly for gaming and in my studies (computer graphics).

I see two possibilites for me, either:

I buy an already built computer, it cost more, but i am sure i have every thing i need. (like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1RKlaSOrFk)

Or i build one myself, with the risk of screwing up.

Please advise me

just buy it complete, for 600 you can have an awesome quadcore, 2gigs of vram gfx and 8 gigs of ram and still have enough for the rest of the stuff if bought second hand.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: zagibu on August 26, 2013, 10:05:10 pm
An SSD can easily be added later. I agree that it definitely doesn't fit into the 600€ budget.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Sniger on August 27, 2013, 01:02:06 am
Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on August 26, 2013, 05:07:32 pm
I think I found your problem Sniger.  Jackie's not upgrading, he's building a new desktop from scratch. 

For me the SSD is a big deal because I only have 8 GB of memory.  If you have 16 GB of memory, you really don't have much need for an SSD.  The normal 7200 rpm SATA hard drives are the bottleneck on a lot of systems nowadays (or the BUS transfer speeds on the motherboard). 

But if you only have $800 to spend, to build a brand new desktop from scratch (one that you can game on, or do graphic editing), an SSD is not going to be a wise use of the money.

When your processor and graphics card can easily take up $400 (half of the amount), I think spending another $150 on an SSD is a terrible use of your money (and that's not even going to get you 250 GB of space). 

I'm not arguing that an SSD isn't much better than a platter hard drive (the difference is literally night and day), but you can get around this with enough memory.  He's going to need a decent amount of memory anyways due to graphic editing, so I wouldn't be able to justify spending money on an SSD.

if you want a gaming rig, wait abit more and save up more gold. 800 bucks for gaming rig is totally not enough :s if you just want a computer then go for the barebones... intel just released a nice series called next computing generation or something like that, they seem quite nice...
they are (i belive) from 1700DKR and up http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/desktops/dc3217by-product-brief.html

dont spend 800 bucks on something you will regret spending 800 bucks on :p wait till you have more moneyz and by then the hw is also cheaper :)
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: JackieChan on August 27, 2013, 01:16:49 am
Ive talked to some people IRL and they told me that with around 600 euros i could get something decent (if not good). As i will most probably build the computer from scratch i will just have to add or replaces as the years goes by instead of  buying a whole new rig. Which is awsome budget wise.

Ill tweak the rig i posted earlier according to the advice i got(and post it here). Thanks alot guys  :D
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Rumblood on August 27, 2013, 08:08:36 am
Quote from: Kafein on August 26, 2013, 09:41:32 pm
More than 8Gb has very little use today. That amount of memory under normal use will not fill up and you'll never have to use your hard disk as additional memory (most programs don't like this anyway, it's almost an antique technique now). It's the exact same phenomenon as with hard disks, and for speed you'd be better getting more cache. That is, a better processor.

Unless you are like me and run Warband + Civ 5 + 4 Citrix sessions + 18 tabs in your browser. But we can't all be multi-taskers  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Kafein on August 27, 2013, 12:53:49 pm
Quote from: Rumblood on August 27, 2013, 08:08:36 am
Unless you are like me and run Warband + Civ 5 + 4 Citrix sessions + 18 tabs in your browser. But we can't all be multi-taskers  :mrgreen:

Yeah sure. Although at some point I did do something similar

Quote from: Kafein on June 18, 2013, 08:43:27 pm
And not a single fuck was given
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Alec on August 27, 2013, 01:40:05 pm
i'm too lazy to read all the previous post so thats why i'm asking :D whatfor you gonna use your computer primary? i read u study computer graphics, what exactly do you create or edit?
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Nightmare798 on August 27, 2013, 01:43:38 pm
Quote from: Alec on August 27, 2013, 01:40:05 pm
i'm too lazy to read all the previous post so thats why i'm asking :D whatfor you gonna use your computer primary? i read u study computer graphics, what exactly do you create or edit?

to be honest i think that moar performance is always good, regardless what are you going to do...
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Alec on August 27, 2013, 02:14:11 pm
check out, this may help :D
http://www.alternate.co.uk/html/index.html
http://www.alternate.co.uk/html/configurator/builder/pc/page.html
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: AntiBlitz on August 27, 2013, 02:56:38 pm
Quote from: JackieChan on August 27, 2013, 01:16:49 am
Ive talked to some people IRL and they told me that with around 600 euros i could get something decent (if not good). As i will most probably build the computer from scratch i will just have to add or replaces as the years goes by instead of  buying a whole new rig. Which is awsome budget wise.

Ill tweak the rig i posted earlier according to the advice i got(and post it here). Thanks alot guys  :D

At any point did you ever just think about financing?  You could get everything you wanted and still pay like 100 bucks a month for a year and be done with it.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: zagibu on August 27, 2013, 07:54:51 pm
Quote from: AntiBlitz on August 27, 2013, 02:56:38 pm
At any point did you ever just think about financing?  You could get everything you wanted and still pay like 100 bucks a month for a year and be done with it.

NEVER.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: JackieChan on August 27, 2013, 11:32:15 pm
Okey a friend of mine gave me a french website that delivers in belgium. We made a cart, but in some cases we didnt find  the exact  components as Rumblood gave me, so we looked for something similar. Anyway heres the cart:

Processor: http://www.ldlc.be/fiche/PB00120938.html
Graphic card: http://www.ldlc.be/fiche/PB00149699.html
Motherboard: http://www.ldlc.be/fiche/PB00128788.html
RAM: http://www.ldlc.be/fiche/PB00100992.html
Hard drive: http://www.ldlc.be/fiche/PB00129110.html
Power supply : http://www.ldlc.be/fiche/PB00146780.html
Case: http://www.ldlc.be/fiche/PB00135732.html (not the same case as Rumblood gave me, i didnt find the brand on the website, and i thought i should just get the cheapest atm.)

Total of  661,40 EUR. Around 700EUR with delivery. It really maxed out my original budget, but i can scramble around some cash and they also give  a 3 time payment option which is great.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Rumblood on August 27, 2013, 11:51:37 pm
Nice, I think you'll be more than happy with the performance.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Kafein on August 27, 2013, 11:55:14 pm
Financing is a horrible idea unless you know for a fact you'll have the money ready and there's no way you can get it now.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Rumblood on August 27, 2013, 11:57:12 pm
Quote from: Kafein on August 27, 2013, 11:55:14 pm
Financing is a horrible idea unless you know for a fact you'll have the money ready and there's no way you can get it now.

Or unless you plan to finance a house sometime soon, need to build your credit score, and know for a fact that you can afford to do this and never miss a payment.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: JackieChan on August 28, 2013, 12:05:22 am
Quote from: Kafein on August 27, 2013, 11:55:14 pm
Financing is a horrible idea unless you know for a fact you'll have the money ready and there's no way you can get it now.
To picture the whole idea: Atm i got 300 Euros, next week ill get payed from my job ( around 300EUR) and since i am still a student i am fortunate enough to have a family that can lend me some cash if im in trouble  :)

Another question i got, is it possible to install Win7 without a CD? meaning i can use a  USB or external drive to do it?
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Kafein on August 28, 2013, 12:11:47 am
Quote from: JackieChan on August 28, 2013, 12:05:22 am
Another question i got, is it possible to install Win7 without a CD? meaning i can use a  USB or external drive to do it?

I never did that myself but I'm fairly sure you can.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Senni__Ti on August 28, 2013, 12:28:42 am
Not bad, but a cheap motherboard and I'm not sure on the reliability of the PSU.

Also the PSU seems to draw quite a lot of power. Does this not ship to Belgium? (10 EURO more, not sure about shipping, MUCH MUCH more reliable and more efficient)
http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/Netzteile/Corsair/Corsair-Enthusiast-Series-650TX-V2-Netzteil-650-Watt::16420.html

It would be worth checking the warranties of the expensive components e.g.
http://www.gainward.com/main/support_detail.php?id=3

For example, if your PSU blew fried the GPU, they won't replace it. (which is why the PSU is so important)

Couple of motherboard points:
- It is a MICRO ATX board, which means it is smaller, everything will probably be more cramped. (EDIT: looked at your case, fair enough :P)
- only 2 SATA III connectors (it does have other SATA II connectors)
- only 2 USB 3.0 connectors (plenty of USB 2.0)
- no PCIe 3.0 slot (your graphics card can use up to PCIe 3.0, which is faster than PCIe 2.0)
- only 1 PCIe 2.0 x16 slot (x16 is essentially how many connectors, x16 is best, but you only have one of these slots, so you won't be able to have 2 x GPUs)
- only 2 RAM slots!!!!

Currently you are getting 2 x 4gb RAM sticks. Which means you'll have to replace them, if you want to upgrade your RAM. Which is a point to keep in mind.
The PCIe 3.0 point applies to ALL AMD AM3+ based motherboards, none of them have it. (afaik, looked at quite a few)
And it seems intel is out of your price range, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. (PCIe 2.0 isn't much worse, shouldn't notice it)

Case wise, it doesn't seem to have much ventilation + it is a micro-ATX case -> small and cramped anyway. And looking at the cooling fan on the GPU, I don't think that will be the best either. So expect it to get HOT.

It looks like you'll need to buy a couple of 120mm fans (they don't cost much), but my french is terrible so I could be wrong :P.
And you'll probably need to get a CPU cooler, as stock coolers are never good. (And I'm pretty sure your CPU will run hot). But with your case being so small, you can't have a huge CPU cooler anyway, as they stick out to the side quite a bit.
http://www.ldlc.be/fiche/PB00137222.html
^ Should fit, again, my french sucks :P.

All in all, a reasonable budget PC (though not much room for upgrading, replacements are possible, but the only addition possible that I can think of would be a SSD), though I would check those warranties! (don't want it exploding in your face :O and not being able to send it back)

And just checking:
- no CD/DVD drive?
- You already have a monitor?
- keyboard + mouse?

EDIT:
Quote from: JackieChan on August 28, 2013, 12:05:22 am
Another question i got, is it possible to install Win7 without a CD? meaning i can use a  USB or external drive to do it?
http://pcsupport.about.com/od/windows7/a/install-windows-7-usb.htm
English sorry :p
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Vermilion on August 28, 2013, 12:32:19 am
Quote from: JackieChan on August 27, 2013, 11:32:15 pm
Processor: http://www.ldlc.be/fiche/PB00120938.html
Graphic card: http://www.ldlc.be/fiche/PB00149699.html
Motherboard: http://www.ldlc.be/fiche/PB00128788.html
RAM: http://www.ldlc.be/fiche/PB00100992.html
I would go for 1600mhz not 1333mhz, it's slightly quicker and better for OC (if you ever plan on it)
Hard drive: http://www.ldlc.be/fiche/PB00129110.html
Again - I wouldn't use a WD GREEN as my primary drive, go for black (or blue at the least)
Power supply : http://www.ldlc.be/fiche/PB00146780.html
Again - I would go for a higher quality PSU.. This is more based at office computers than gaming. From the manufacturers page "ideal for users to build a home or office system ". I would go for http://www.ldlc.be/fiche/PB00134228.html
Case: http://www.ldlc.be/fiche/PB00135732.html (not the same case as Rumblood gave me, i didnt find the brand on the website, and i thought i should just get the cheapest atm.)

Total of  661,40 EUR. Around 700EUR with delivery. It really maxed out my original budget, but i can scramble around some cash and they also give  a 3 time payment option which is great.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Senni__Ti on August 28, 2013, 12:38:08 am
Ah forgot about the RAM frequency :P
Agree with the above, 1600Mhz is definitely worth it (9-9-9-24 is pretty solid cycle wise)

PSU wise, I think:
Quote from: Vermilion on August 28, 2013, 12:32:19 am
http://www.ldlc.be/fiche/PB00134228.html
Would be nice, but out of his budget range. (but I agree, the current one doesn't seem great)

The HDD point is also good, but again budget restrictions :p.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Vermilion on August 28, 2013, 12:50:51 am
Quote from: Senni__Ti on August 28, 2013, 12:38:08 am
Ah forgot about the RAM frequency :P
Agree with the above, 1600Mhz is definitely worth it (9-9-9-24 is pretty solid cycle wise)

PSU wise, I think:Would be nice, but out of his budget range. (but I agree, the current one doesn't seem great)

The HDD point is also good, but again budget restrictions :p.

The price difference between WD green and WD blue is nothing, yet the performance is a lot better (especially as he will be loading windows from it, wouldn't be an issue if he could afford a SSD or was planing to get one as soon as he could afford it)

Yeah i know that PSU is twice the price of the one he showed... but that site doesn't have a great selection.. The one you linked would be better if he can get them to deliver.

Also Jackie, did you realise that case only has USB 2.0 If you're a regular user of external hard drives it will be a real pain (trying to hook them up to the rear 3.0 ports)
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: JackieChan on August 28, 2013, 01:06:12 am
(click to show/hide)
http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/Netzteile/Corsair/Corsair-Enthusiast-Series-650TX-V2-Netzteil-650-Watt::16420.html
Your going to have to check it for me, i dont speak dutch :x

As for the case and fan, Ill see how that one goes and if im getting to hight temp ill either get new fans (as you suggested) or get myself a bigger case( that will be for the long run)

As for the warranties ill read the whole stuff tomorow but  from what i read there shouldnt be any problems.

As for the cd/dvd drive, i got a 10 year old computer rusting in the attic, im probably going to take it from it
For the monitor i was planning to use my old one for a while and eventually buy a new one
Same goes for the keyboard and mouse =)

Thanks for the link for Win7
I dont mind having it in English, i actually prefer it

Quote from: Vermilion on August 28, 2013, 12:32:19 am

Most of the thing u suggested makes me add more cash, unfortunatly i cant atm

As for the Hard drive, there wasent any black one with 1To on the website. But whats the difference between the blue and green one? (edit: i just read ur other post)

As for the RAM, ill change it for the 1600 one, but whats the difference between the 2 actually?

Quote from: Vermilion on August 28, 2013, 12:50:51 am
Also Jackie, did you realise that case only has USB 2.0 If you're a regular user of external hard drives it will be a real pain (trying to hook them up to the rear 3.0 ports)
For the moment the USB port isnt a big concern for me. I wont be tranfering much data from my external drive to the computer.  :P
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Vermilion on August 28, 2013, 01:52:01 am
Quote from: JackieChan on August 28, 2013, 01:06:12 am
As for the RAM, ill change it for the 1600 one, but whats the difference between the 2 actually?
For the moment the USB port isnt a big concern for me. I wont be tranfering much data from my external drive to the computer.  :P

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Understanding-RAM-Timings/26

The higher the MHz the faster the RAM (with limitations from CPU/Motherboard/BIOS etc and other factors timing/voltage etc)
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: zagibu on August 28, 2013, 02:47:42 am
If I had to buy at LDLC with your budget, I'd buy something like this: http://www.ldlc.be/b-b79fcb7c006b5ee1.html I made sure everything is in stock, because it sucks if you have to wait half a month on one component.

Some notes on my suggestions compared to above:
- better processor (cheaper, cooler, faster for what you will be doing)
- 4 RAM slot motherboard if you want to upgrade to 16GB later
- I agree that the Geforce 760 is the best GPU for your budget
- PSU, hard disk and case don't matter that much, you can easily switch them with other suggestions (I just picked cheapest that should still work fine with the rest of the components)
- I didn't add a disk drive, because I never use mine anyway
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Molly on August 28, 2013, 08:43:07 am
I'd like to add a note to the WD Green HDD.

I own one and it's actually the 1 TB HDD and the only one in my system. I can't complain performance wise. Seems okay for me.

...but I had issues with it right from the start. There was no data loss or anything but sometimes my board struggles to recognize it. Then I have to turn off the system completely at the PSU, wait a moment, switch it back on and it works again. Doesn't happen often and wasn't able to reproduce it. And by now, I don't even mind anymore. And it might even be a problem with the connection or the mainboard itself.

Just felt to mention it. It's really a warning to not get it. Just my 2 cents of experience with this one HDD that runs in my system.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Kafein on August 28, 2013, 01:08:21 pm
RAM quality is becoming less and less of a concern as time goes, just go for the cheapest high capacity sticks.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Sniger on August 28, 2013, 01:15:46 pm
yes you can use external source for installing windows.

once you installed the system as well as all the software you want and you think its running perfectly, i highly recommend that you go do this:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/what-is-a-system-image

the feat is build into windows and it works fine.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Christo on August 28, 2013, 03:53:16 pm
Yeah yeah, make sure to get a decent PSU!

Not a noname piece of crap.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Molly on August 28, 2013, 04:44:24 pm
Quote from: Christo on August 28, 2013, 03:53:16 pm
Yeah yeah, make sure to get a decent PSU!

Not a noname piece of crap.
Have to agree with this. Not talking about the power output but about the quality. Spending 20€ more is going to pay off in the long run but that's easier said than done when calculating on a tight budget.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Senni__Ti on August 28, 2013, 05:16:13 pm
Quote from: JackieChan on August 28, 2013, 01:06:12 am
(click to show/hide)
http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/Netzteile/Corsair/Corsair-Enthusiast-Series-650TX-V2-Netzteil-650-Watt::16420.html
Your going to have to check it for me, i dont speak dutch :x

As for the cd/dvd drive, i got a 10 year old computer rusting in the attic, im probably going to take it from it
For the monitor i was planning to use my old one for a while and eventually buy a new one

As for the Hard drive, there wasent any black one with 1To on the website. But whats the difference between the blue and green one? (edit: i just read ur other post)

As for the RAM, ill change it for the 1600 one, but whats the difference between the 2 actually?

1) It's dutch? I thought it was german :P (I'll try to have a look anyway, I only speak a little german, if it's dutch I'm screwed :p)
http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/Versandkosten:_:1.html  (found it! ~8 EURO shipping cost to Belgium)

2) if your old pc is 10 years old, it probably uses IDE connections not SATA, basically you'll have to buy a converter (check though, if it has HUGE multicoloured ribbon like cables it's IDE, I mean huge). DVD Drives shouldn't cost too much, they are all around 20 EURO, even the good ones.

3)Check the monitor connections, it should have something like this: (DVI)
http://www.sudcamp.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/dvi_d_socket.jpg

Or a HDMI socket (middle), not sure how old it is (the other option is a display port (left))
http://www.hothardware.com/articleimages/Item1068/big_displayport.jpg

If it doesn't have either of these, you'll probably need an adapter :P. (It should have a DVI)
Nothing worse than missing a simple but important component when you get it.

4) Not sure myself, but I have a WD green myself, nothing odd or strange about it, works as I expect it too.

5) It's a frequency, how many times it does something a second -> more is better! :D
(Also I should mention cheaper ram tends to have worse shielding and higher clock cycles [9-9-9-24 is a clock cycle, essentially how many times it goes through the ram until it gets kicked out, more = slower], but as christo said it's getting better with time, but I'd still stick with a name you can trust e.g. Corsair)
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Gnjus on August 28, 2013, 05:19:10 pm
Hey Senni does your last name happens to be Seviyorum ?
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Senni__Ti on August 28, 2013, 05:39:58 pm
Sorry gnjus, I don't swing that way ;)
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: zagibu on August 28, 2013, 05:47:37 pm
Quote from: Senni__Ti on August 28, 2013, 05:16:13 pm
...[9-9-9-24 is a clock cycle, essentially how many times it goes through the ram until it gets kicked out, more = slower]...
No, they are delay values. Learn all about them here: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Understanding-RAM-Timings/26
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Senni__Ti on August 28, 2013, 05:55:20 pm
Quote from: zagibu on August 28, 2013, 05:47:37 pm
No, they are delay values. Learn all about them here: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Understanding-RAM-Timings/26

Seems I misunderstood how 'cycles' was being used :p.

Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: JackieChan on August 28, 2013, 11:10:32 pm
okey well i made the order just now, hoping to get delivered next monday or tuesday. Ill make pics so u guys can see the whole package :)

And again, thanks alot for your help guys  :D
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Jarold on August 29, 2013, 02:16:07 am
Well I guess i'll just throw this out here since Jackie got his pc. Is a gtx 660 a worthwhile investment or should I just save up and get something like a 770 or 780? I'd rather not spend a lot of money though.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: zagibu on August 29, 2013, 10:02:11 am
Depends on what you have currently. It's a good card. The difference between 660 and 760 is between good and very good. If you have a semi-recent card, a 660 might not be worth it, but if your card is older than 2 years, it should be a nice upgrade.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Rumblood on August 30, 2013, 12:30:37 am
GTX 660 is one of the best cards for the value. However, I would get at least the GTX 660 Ti (The Ti part makes a big difference), or the GTX 760.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/GPU13/583 (http://www.anandtech.com/bench/GPU13/583)

Go though and look at different tests. Some games optimize for specific cards, etc., so you should look at a range of tests with the resolution closest to what you will be using.
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Jarold on September 02, 2013, 09:22:16 pm
Yeah I have a crappy card which can barely run warband so it would be a major upgrade. Very nice link you gave Rumsblood it is really helpful. I am planning on getting a gtx 660 ti now but I've always wondered what does TI mean?
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: JackieChan on September 03, 2013, 10:51:18 pm
UPDATE time!
So i got the whole package today around noon, me and some friends built the computer in 5-6 hours, we got some problems but in the end we prevailed!
heres some pics as promised:
http://imgur.com/JhCiSyz
http://imgur.com/SACzhP5
http://i.imgur.com/SkuuSB2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ahnU1Z1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/u2WWuZ4.jpg


 
After putting every thing

http://i.imgur.com/G4bWHB5.jpg

and the case finished

http://i.imgur.com/yQ2f07n.jpg

Again thanks everyone for your help :D
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Rumblood on September 03, 2013, 11:20:23 pm
Congrats! Goes to show that you can still build a far superior machine for cheaper than you can buy an assembled inferior one  :wink:
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: zagibu on September 04, 2013, 03:09:38 am
Wait you have a monitor without DVI socket?
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Christo on September 04, 2013, 07:12:07 am
Quote from: JackieChan on September 03, 2013, 10:51:18 pm
UPDATE time!
So i got the whole package today around noon, me and some friends built the computer in 5-6 hours, we got some problems but in the end we prevailed!
heres some pics as promised:
http://imgur.com/JhCiSyz
http://imgur.com/SACzhP5
http://i.imgur.com/SkuuSB2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ahnU1Z1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/u2WWuZ4.jpg


 
After putting every thing

http://i.imgur.com/G4bWHB5.jpg

and the case finished

http://i.imgur.com/yQ2f07n.jpg

Again thanks everyone for your help :D

Maximum jelly

nice work
Title: Re: Need help for a new PC
Post by: Vermilion on September 04, 2013, 01:11:34 pm
Quote from: zagibu on September 04, 2013, 03:09:38 am
Wait you have a monitor without DVI socket?

Jackie mentioned this earlier

Quote from: JackieChan on August 28, 2013, 01:06:12 am
For the monitor i was planning to use my old one for a while and eventually buy a new one

A few years ago a lot of monitors only came with VGA. I'm sure he will switch to DVI or HDMI when he gets his new monitor.


Looks good Jackie! Thanks for sharing the finished pics.