cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Panos on June 10, 2013, 12:09:21 am

Title: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Panos on June 10, 2013, 12:09:21 am
I`m getting sick and tired of 2h agility heroes running around with coat of plates and all they do is endlessly spam their greatsword!

FOR THE MOTHER OF GOD, DO SOMETHING ABOUT 2H!
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: Kafein on June 10, 2013, 12:13:08 am
I`m getting sick and tired of 2h agility heroes running around with coat of plates and all they do is endlessly spam their greatsword!

FOR THE MOTHER OF GOD, DO SOMETHING ABOUT 2H!

It is way more effective to spam with over 9000 IF and PS anyway
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: the real god emperor on June 10, 2013, 12:13:48 am
I want WotR like 2h, give them a stagger but nearly remove their swings!
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: Panos on June 10, 2013, 12:19:57 am
FOR THOSE WHO HAVE THE SLIGHTEST DOUBT, GO AND SPECTATE PHASE MOTHERFUCKERS I DARE YOU, I REALLY DO
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: Panos on June 10, 2013, 12:38:17 am
It is way more effective to spam with over 9000 IF and PS anyway

That would be valid, if the 2handers didnt get an enormous speed bonus due to their hight agility dude.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: Miwiw on June 10, 2013, 12:53:51 am
I got 15 AGI/5ATH/5WM, am I an AGI whore as well, Panos?  :cry:
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: BlueKnight on June 10, 2013, 01:00:44 am
I got 15 AGI/5ATH/5WM, am I an AGI whore as well, Panos?  :cry:
It's Panos. He be whining since he became non-bannable social worker. I like the idea that he wants to help this mod but I think he's doing it wrong anyway.

Relax Panos. Just pay Templar_Steevee 50k-100k and hire him for a week. Unwanted 2hs will regret messing with you  :wink:
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on June 10, 2013, 01:02:58 am
Actually, maybe this'd help to fix all the plate in Strat.

But then, only the strength crutchers would have plate. That'd suck.

Never mind?
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: Panos on June 10, 2013, 01:11:04 am
It's Panos. He be whining since he became non-bannable social worker. I like the idea that he wants to help this mod but I think he's doing it wrong anyway.

Relax Panos. Just pay Templar_Steevee 50k-100k and hire him for a week. Unwanted 2hs will regret messing with you  :wink:

Pros and Cons of being a 2h agi whore with a 15/24 build.

- Fast
- Can outspam 90% of other weapons
- Can wear heavy armour up to gothic plate, AND STILL BE FAST as hell
- Uber protection from both melee and ranged, because of the plate cruth
- Gain a lot of speed bonus, because of your high Ath and WM

Cons

- ???
- ???
- ???
- ???


Pros and Cons of being an Str whore like myself 27/12 Poleaxe

- Strong
- ???
- ???
- ???

Cons

- Slow ass motherfucker
- Everyone can outspam you
- You don`t have the slightest bonus with the heavy armour that you wear, because the happy teenage agi hero, CAN WEAR THE SAME ARMOUR LIKE YOU AND STILL BE FASTER!!!

YOLOSWAG MY MAN, Yes I whinne, I really do, Yes I`m a noob, and aaaaaaaaall you are 10 times better than me.

Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: Panos on June 10, 2013, 01:13:09 am
I think it`s time for another permaban.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: BlueKnight on June 10, 2013, 01:13:40 am
(click to show/hide)

If you keep saying things like those in a topic that was in the beginning supposed to be a serious one, I guess there won't be many people left taking what you say seriously.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: Panos on June 10, 2013, 01:15:17 am
(click to show/hide)

If you keep saying things like those in a topic that was in the beginning supposed to be a serious one, I guess there won't be many people left taking what you say seriously.

please enlighten me with your endless knowledge master BlueKnight.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: Miwiw on June 10, 2013, 01:16:45 am
Panos, your request to raise the STR needed for heavier armor gear is alright, but please do not start stuff like that (3 posts above). :P

I fully support your idea though I admit I'm also fine with the current situation.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: BlueKnight on June 10, 2013, 01:16:49 am
please enlighten me with your endless knowledge master BlueKnight.
No need to be mean but from what you've written earlier it is easy to say that you were exaggerating a lot. Do you even believe what you typed?

EDIT: Also, I would rather increase str requirement on weapons than on armours. But this could lead to build-breaking like it was with Kinngrimm.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: Panos on June 10, 2013, 01:28:22 am
Do you even believe what you typed?

No, I`m hallucinating because of the starvation here in Greece.  -_-



Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on June 10, 2013, 01:48:14 am
The upper tier of plate should be 18 and the real top tier should be 21 imo. Not 15 and 16, I've thought that for a long time. It's stupid that the heavy gauntlets require 18 but that gothic plate is only 15 :S

From blue coat of plate to guard armour should be 15 from red corz to Heavy Yawshan should be 18 and from there on up it should be 21.

But leave the heavy gauntlets at 18 because that would fuck too many people up shifting those.

It's time to shake the market up again.

Just my accurate and correct opinion mind you.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: Panos on June 10, 2013, 01:53:10 am
Lets do some maths

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


19.3 KGR


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3.3 X 2 = 6.6 KGR


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0.7 X 3 = 2.1 KGR



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3.8 KGR


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2.5 KGR

And now :

19.3 + 6.6 + 2.1 + 3.8 + 2.5 = 34.3 KGR

AND NOW, TAKE A LOOK OUR 2H HERO, HOW FAST HE CAN BE.




This is a quick video that I captured 10 minutes ago, endless spamming, fast 360 turns, and ALL THAT WITH THE PROTECTION OF HIS PLATE..

Bonus : Fuck, he knows that he can outspam everything, he does not even bother to block...

Bitches, please keep on trying to convince me that 2H aint an OP class.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Matey on June 10, 2013, 02:02:47 am
just another curious thing about 2H masterrace... the MURICA clan tournie has 40k gold limit on gear you can spawn with, loomed items cost quite a bit more than unloomed. The funny thing is that it is easy for 2H heroes to still run around in heavy armour with their favourite 2h, meanwhile shielders, cav and xbow are pretty much fucked. While that is only applicable to that tournie it does make you think that maybe the cost of armour is too low. I of course am biased as hell against people who can survive more than 3 hits while being able to 1 shot me.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Panos on June 10, 2013, 02:05:13 am
just another curious thing about 2H masterrace... the MURICA clan tournie has 40k gold limit on gear you can spawn with, loomed items cost quite a bit more than unloomed. The funny thing is that it is easy for 2H heroes to still run around in heavy armour with their favourite 2h, meanwhile shielders, cav and xbow are pretty much fucked. While that is only applicable to that tournie it does make you think that maybe the cost of armour is too low. I of course am biased as hell against people who can survive more than 3 hits while being able to 1 shot me.

You are a fool and a noob for daring saying something against the 2h master race!

Do you even believe what you wrote??  :twisted:
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Okkam on June 10, 2013, 02:13:52 am
buff armor effectivity (moderate)
nerf movement speed in medium\heavy armor (a lot)
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Malaclypse on June 10, 2013, 04:29:59 am
The highest Strength requirement for a set of armor is 16. That should be at LEAST as high as the highest requirement for a melee weapon IMO (20 STR), if not higher. Gotta agree with FRANK.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: bagge on June 10, 2013, 04:35:29 am
This stuff is getting old Panos :wink:
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Mammonist on June 10, 2013, 06:48:03 am
Classes that are not 2h are just around to feed the superior master race.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on June 10, 2013, 06:51:56 am
Panos, you claim he runs insanely fast in his heavy armor, try seeing him naked, armor really slows people down, and if a guy got an agi build armor won't help much from being 2-3 hit.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: [ptx] on June 10, 2013, 07:42:28 am
And if he did the same with a 27/12 build, he would've killed some 4-5 guys more, because of the extra damage and taking some 2-3 more hits to die. If you get spammed, it is not because of "OMG AGILITY", it is because you suck at returning attacks, you'd do no better with an inversed build, probably actually a lot worse.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Joker86 on June 10, 2013, 08:04:08 am
Didn't he need three strikes for that one archer he caught from behind?

It's not like that archers was heavily armoured or that archers in general tend to have a lot of HP...


If anything, I think all armour values should be upped a bit, even increasing exponentially the closer you com to the top tier. But that's my opinion.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Vibe on June 10, 2013, 08:11:55 am
And if he did the same with a 27/12 build, he would've killed some 4-5 guys more, because of the extra damage and taking some 2-3 more hits to die. If you get spammed, it is not because of "OMG AGILITY", it is because you suck at returning attacks, you'd do no better with an inversed build, probably actually a lot worse.

^ only scrubs die to spam

and

This stuff is getting old Panos :wink:
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on June 10, 2013, 08:14:07 am
Didn't he need three strikes for that one archer he caught from behind?

It's not like that archers was heavily armoured or that archers in general tend to have a lot of HP...


If anything, I think all armour values should be upped a bit, even increasing exponentially the closer you com to the top tier. But that's my opinion.
People already survive way to many hits if they aren't 100% naked.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Joker86 on June 10, 2013, 08:34:09 am
People already survive way to many hits if they aren't 100% naked.

Then I would be for upping the overall damage somehow.

I just want more noticeable differences between the armour classes. For my personal taste the difference between no armour/cloth and leather armour is too little noticeable, the difference between leather and light mail is, the difference between light and heavy mail, heavy mail and partial plate/lamellar, and finally the difference of partial plate/lamellar to full plate. You know what I mean?

And I think compared to heavy mail or partial plate full plate is not doing good enough to justify the drastically higher costs in upkeep. It's just not as cost effective, although in theory all items should be at exactly the same cost efficiency.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Canuck on June 10, 2013, 08:40:06 am
If anything, I think all armour values should be upped a bit, even increasing exponentially the closer you com to the top tier. But that's my opinion.

I know you posted different thoughts afterwards, but I've just gotta say, come fight in an NA strat battle with a fully geared FCC or Occitan army (which unfortunately aren't around currently) and see if you still think armour should be increased!  :lol:
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Panos on June 10, 2013, 09:03:55 am
This stuff is getting old Panos :wink:

I would actually say the same if I was ranged to, and 90% of my gametime was, PEW run PEW run PEW, and only melee when I was the last guy or when I was cornered, and please Bagge, do tell me, apart from my logical request to add Power Draw to xbow, have you ever seen me "whining" about ranged being OP?? NO YOU HAVEN`T, because I find it normal to die from ranged, and, I sucked it up, and I spent 3 points to have a shield, and the gameplay for me is a lot better now.

Have you ever seen me "whining" about 1h being OP?? Apart from their high chance of knockdown, I never said anything else about the class, because I find it normal that short weapons are faster than my polearm, I don`t even mind the uber crazy abusable, nudge + kick combination that lot of 1handers use, I sucked it up, and forced myself to use kicks.

No matter how much time I spend on duel server trying to find the slightest thing that will give me a small advantage as a polearmer against 2handers, I come up always to a dead end, fuck , a couple  days ago, I was dueling GTX,  he was hugging me, and he used a lolstab, I COULD HEAR THE BOUNCE SOUND, but not only he wasn`t stunned, but he could land a new full stab!!!

Please I beg you, teach me a way to counter 2handers as a polearmer and I promise to shut the fuck up.

And if he did the same with a 27/12 build, he would've killed some 4-5 guys more, because of the extra damage and taking some 2-3 more hits to die. If you get spammed, it is not because of "OMG AGILITY", it is because you suck at returning attacks, you'd do no better with an inversed build, probably actually a lot worse.

Yes yes, I suck at this game, maybe I should switch to 2hander like yourslef and be a part of the masterrace.

Panos, you claim he runs insanely fast in his heavy armor, try seeing him naked, armor really slows people down, and if a guy got an agi build armor won't help much from being 2-3 hit.

Zlisch, everyone can run fast naked, even a guy with 2 athletics can run fast with no armour at all, so your argument is invalid, and also most agi players, have some IF, so chances are he will need 4-5 hits, because of the IF + Heavy armour combination.

^ only scrubs die to spam

Come again Chase fanboy??
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: [ptx] on June 10, 2013, 10:49:24 am
My main is a 27/12 1h/pole hybrid in not too heavy armor.
Besides, for those with reading comprehension problems, i am not defending 2h. A high-str 2h build in heavy loomed armour is the easiest thing in the game right now.

a couple  days ago, I was dueling GTX,  he was hugging me, and he used a lolstab, I COULD HEAR THE BOUNCE SOUND, but not only he wasn`t stunned, but he could land a new full stab!!!
He used a glitch, he didn't really stab you the first time, he actually feinted, giving you that bounce sound. Yeah, it's dumb.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Strudog on June 10, 2013, 11:00:53 am
Phase uses light kuyak Panos, thats why he is fast
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Panos on June 10, 2013, 11:05:19 am
Phase uses light kuyak Panos, thats why he is fast

the guy on the video is Phase, the last couple of days he plays with the BCoP
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Ronin on June 10, 2013, 11:06:45 am
Something is wrong when gothic plate is only 15 difficulty.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Panos on June 10, 2013, 11:07:48 am
Give me 1 nerf ticket and everything will be fixed   :twisted:
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Torben on June 10, 2013, 11:13:07 am
i agree that str req could be raised a bit,  but taking phase as example isnt quite valid.  he is one of the guys knowing his footwork and is able to spam and do good damage because of that.
most people wouldnt do as good with an agi build im sure
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Teeth on June 10, 2013, 11:22:07 am
There is simply a difference between '2h good' and good. It pains me to see though that good players like Phase and Decky Smile give up playing skillfully and cleanly for constant dirty spamming. It pains me even more to see 2h scrubs that barely know how to play, get good scores by random turning and swinging. Even at the most horrible angles 2h still does fine damage. Proper footwork and swinging is not required. In the hands of good players, 2h is balanced, in the hands of mediocre players, 2h is OP compared to their performance with other classes.

The strength requirements for armour have always been to low, the ability to use heavier armour is barely a consideration for me when I make a character build and I think it should be.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Panos on June 10, 2013, 11:23:34 am
I know I am right when Teeth agrees with me  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Molly on June 10, 2013, 11:32:25 am
inb4 Teeth denying agreement with Panos...
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Joker86 on June 10, 2013, 11:49:26 am
Teeth doesn't agree with Panos - Panos agrees with Teeth  :P
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on June 10, 2013, 12:13:20 pm
Buff xbow to counter 2h. Reduce bolt weight.








BRING YOUR - VOTES! I DONT CARE

Edit: To stay on topic, my main is 24/15 with 123wpf in 2h and 100wpf in polearms. 2h is much easier to play, almost never bounce with unloomed weapons. With mw polearms and the same footwork I perform way worse than with 2h.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Joker86 on June 10, 2013, 12:15:15 pm
BRING YOUR - VOTES! I DONT CARE

+ing you just to troll you!

Take this! Mwaaahahahahaaaaa!
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Gravoth_iii on June 10, 2013, 12:24:23 pm
Panos stop trying to slow the game down. Just because Strength isnt always the best choice doesnt mean agi needs a nerf. Depending on playstyles, most of the time str is the better choice, you become tankier and you get the damage. Agi 2h's never one-hit me but those with more str do from time to time.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Panos on June 10, 2013, 12:28:03 pm
Panos stop trying to slow the game down. Just because Strength isnt always the best choice doesnt mean agi needs a nerf. Depending on playstyles, most of the time str is the better choice, you become tankier and you get the damage. Agi 2h's never one-hit me but those with more str do from time to time.

But if they increase the armour dif, the game will become faster, because the agiwhores won`t be able to wear plates , i`m not asking to nerf anything.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: Macropus on June 10, 2013, 12:56:01 pm
Pros and Cons of being a 2h agi whore with a 15/24 build.

- Fast
- Can outspam 90% of other weapons
- Can wear heavy armour up to gothic plate, AND STILL BE FAST as hell
- Uber protection from both melee and ranged, because of the plate cruth
- Gain a lot of speed bonus, because of your high Ath and WM

Cons

- ???
- ???
- ???
- ???


Pros and Cons of being an Str whore like myself 27/12 Poleaxe

- Strong
- ???
- ???
- ???

Cons

- Slow ass motherfucker
- Everyone can outspam you
- You don`t have the slightest bonus with the heavy armour that you wear, because the happy teenage agi hero, CAN WEAR THE SAME ARMOUR LIKE YOU AND STILL BE FASTER!!!
Panos, that's just total bullshit. 
You obviously have not tried playing high agi 2h, let me tell you how it feels.
1) You can't outspam everyone. It's is just easier to spam, but even so, you can only spam when your enemy makes a mistake in his timing. You can also spam with high str builds really effectively because of non-glancing attacks at any angle, btw.
2) Heavy armor is utterly useless for an high-agi char. Why? Because it cuts your athletics to zero. You can still be (comparingly) fast when running straight (as well as any str-plate crutcher), but you lose all your ability to change your moving directions smoothly, and it is the main purpose of having athletics, not running fast. And so all the speed bonus fades away.
3) You don't get much protection because of low HP (low str + usuallo no IF). The heavier armor you use, the more useless your agi becomes (which is nt noticeable for str- and very noticeable for agi-chars.

 Now about pros:
1) You're maneuverable and fast (if you use right gear).
2) Speed bonus kinda compensates for low damage if you use it.

Of course, no one should underestimate the advantage of being maneuverable. It's easier to break through the enemy's "block barrier" (I mean to make him miss a hit), you can change your targets really quickly in the fight, you can run away in a lot of bad situations. But still it leaves you really fragile and weak.

If agi characters are so effective in heavy armor, why do you think they're so shit on Strat, where everyone's using heavy armor? Think about it...



PS: what I agree with you on though, is that the difficulty of heavy armor should go up to 21 str or even 24. I want tincans to be slower and stronger, as they should be.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: wayyyyyne on June 10, 2013, 01:40:41 pm
the grudge you hold against 2handers is bordering the obsessive Panos

most armors could use an increase in their STR requirement though
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: bagge on June 10, 2013, 01:48:57 pm
I would actually say the same if I was ranged to, and 90% of my gametime was, PEW run PEW run PEW, and only melee when I was the last guy or when I was cornered, and please Bagge, do tell me, apart from my logical request to add Power Draw to xbow, have you ever seen me "whining" about ranged being OP?? NO YOU HAVEN`T, because I find it normal to die from ranged, and, I sucked it up, and I spent 3 points to have a shield, and the gameplay for me is a lot better now.

Have you ever seen me "whining" about 1h being OP?? Apart from their high chance of knockdown, I never said anything else about the class, because I find it normal that short weapons are faster than my polearm, I don`t even mind the uber crazy abusable, nudge + kick combination that lot of 1handers use, I sucked it up, and forced myself to use kicks.

No matter how much time I spend on duel server trying to find the slightest thing that will give me a small advantage as a polearmer against 2handers, I come up always to a dead end, fuck , a couple  days ago, I was dueling GTX,  he was hugging me, and he used a lolstab, I COULD HEAR THE BOUNCE SOUND, but not only he wasn`t stunned, but he could land a new full stab!!!

Please I beg you, teach me a way to counter 2handers as a polearmer and I promise to shut the fuck up.

Come come. I'm just saying that your obsessive whine against 2h's is getting pretty old. You've made your point clear, several times :P tbh you should ditch the STR build and go for a 18/24 a la Tor instead.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Panos on June 10, 2013, 02:03:19 pm
Come come. I'm just saying that your obsessive whine against 2h's is getting pretty old. You've made your point clear, several times :P tbh you should ditch the STR build and go for a 18/24 a la Tor instead.

change class and gamestyle because of a totally OP and broken class.

SEEMS LEGIT.

Maybe I should go ranged and pretend I`m robin hood, or even better LEGOLAS!
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: bagge on June 10, 2013, 02:33:52 pm
change class and gamestyle because of a totally OP and broken class.

SEEMS LEGIT.

Maybe I should go ranged and pretend I`m robin hood, or even better LEGOLAS!

Tor uses a polearm.

Anyway, sometimes you have to adapt your gamestyle.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Herkkutatti666 on June 10, 2013, 02:37:03 pm
You can also spam with high str builds really effectively because of non-glancing attacks at any angle, btw.
Yeah sure, this shows you haven't tested str builds..
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Macropus on June 10, 2013, 03:07:01 pm
Yeah sure, this shows you haven't tested str builds..
I haven't.  :D
Yeah, my wording wasn't correct enough. With STR build you can spam because of lower chance of glance even at bad angles.
Now that should be correct.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: [ptx] on June 10, 2013, 03:11:06 pm
I have - the difference is that it's a far less risky move with greater rewards, when you're a str build.

You deliver more damage per hit and, if the opponent does return a hit, it'll hurt for a much smaller % of your HP. So much so, it's actually a viable "playstyle" with a heavily armored str char and a hard hitting 2h (see ivani4 and others).
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: jasonjay543 on June 10, 2013, 03:12:09 pm

Pros and Cons of being an Str whore like myself 27/12 Poleaxe

- Strong
- ???
- ???
- ???

Cons

- Slow ass motherfucker
- Everyone can outspam you
- You don`t have the slightest bonus with the heavy armour that you wear, because the happy teenage agi hero, CAN WEAR THE SAME ARMOUR LIKE YOU AND STILL BE FASTER!!!

YOLOSWAG MY MAN, Yes I whinne, I really do, Yes I`m a noob, and aaaaaaaaall you are 10 times better than me.

Let me fix that for you:

- Durable.
- Heavy Hitting (One-Two hit most enemies.)
- Long lasting if you can block.
- As for the polearm part, you can S key and still do infinite amounts of damage.

Cons

- Slow
- Everyone can outspam you Invalid if you can block.
- You don`t have the slightest bonus with the heavy armour that you wear, because the happy teenage agi hero, CAN WEAR THE SAME ARMOUR LIKE YOU AND STILL BE FASTER!!! Also invalid because the "Agi hero" does not have 9 IF, he has 5.

Quit bitching about everything and just get better, Panos.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Gurnisson on June 10, 2013, 03:26:38 pm
While your hate towards 2h players is getting borderline ridiculous, the armour difficulty was always a bit too low. Wouldn't mind seeing a (minor) change.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on June 10, 2013, 04:05:36 pm
Meh, most effective armor for anything else than strat battles and maybe dueling is medium, I don't see any point in making the heavier armor require more str. Also Panos, this is coming from me, one of the biggest 2h haters in this game, nerf the long/bastard/heavy bastard by 1-2 speed, make the 2hstab slightly less viable at facehug range, add those nudges to poles and 2h and shield bashes to shielders, and the melee will be pretty balanced. Teeth all of those things you listed apply just as much to poles, and 1h got regular slightly greater speed/shields/(once nudges are added to the other classes) somewhat more powerful nudges to compensate.

Quote
Zlisch, everyone can run fast naked, even a guy with 2 athletics can run fast with no armour at all, so your argument is invalid, and also most agi players, have some IF, so chances are he will need 4-5 hits, because of the IF + Heavy armour combination.
Yeah, one small issue here, an agi guy will run much more fast in no armor than in heavy armor than an str guy will, and an STR player could just pick more IF and then he'll need 6-7 hits, so whatever.
Also,
Quote
No matter how much time I spend on duel server trying to find the slightest thing that will give me a small advantage as a polearmer against 2handers, I come up always to a dead end, fuck , a couple  days ago, I was dueling GTX,  he was hugging me, and he used a lolstab, I COULD HEAR THE BOUNCE SOUND, but not only he wasn`t stunned, but he could land a new full stab!!!
is one of the most common techniques that still work for getting hits in on good players, and can be done with everything that can stab, including poles.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Panos on June 10, 2013, 04:09:23 pm
While your hate towards 2h players is getting borderline ridiculous, the armour difficulty was always a bit too low. Wouldn't mind seeing a (minor) change.

I know it , but I can`t help it  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Mammonist on June 10, 2013, 05:08:31 pm
that brings us to the next point: do something about 1h nudge, make it counterable
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Kafein on June 10, 2013, 05:10:15 pm
^ only scrubs die to spam

Only scrubs dare do anything bar straight attacks and spam. I hate this 2013 meta


Btw Panos, the problem here is armor simultaneously giving too much damage reduce and a sligthtly too low agility malus. Nothing related to 2h or even to builds.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: Falka on June 10, 2013, 05:16:40 pm
Lets do some maths

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3.3 X 2 = 6.6 KGR


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0.7 X 3 = 2.1 KGR

Your math is wrong. Running speed is decreased by "pure" weight, weight multiplied by 2 (in the case of head armor) or 4 (gloves) decrease effective wpf.

And I don't get your point Panos (except for hating 2h ofc :P), you're saying that agi builds are OP in comparison to str ones?  :shock:
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: BlueKnight on June 10, 2013, 06:38:01 pm
I have - the difference is that it's a far less risky move with greater rewards, when you're a str build.

You deliver more damage per hit and, if the opponent does return a hit, it'll hurt for a much smaller % of your HP. So much so, it's actually a viable "playstyle" with a heavily armored str char and a hard hitting 2h (see ivani4 and others).
People always state 1vs1 situations as an example and what they forget is that agi usually does better when he's getting 1vs2+ and it's harder to gank an agi guy. Str builds are getting gangbanged quite easily and even though they have their shittons of hp and armour but yet they can't do anything. Str builds can't exist alone as agi builds can.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Michael on June 10, 2013, 07:08:32 pm
I`m getting sick and tired of 2h agility heroes running around with coat of plates and all they do is endlessly spam their greatsword!

FOR THE MOTHER OF GOD, DO SOMETHING ABOUT 2H!


wasnt it the longsword? ah, all the same.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Herkkutatti666 on June 10, 2013, 08:15:43 pm
I`m getting sick and tired of 2h agility heroes running around with coat of plates and all they do is endlessly spam their greatsword!

FOR THE MOTHER OF GOD, DO SOMETHING ABOUT 2H!
what about other spammers with 15 str on gothic plate and etc?  do you just want to nerf reqs for 2hers
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on June 10, 2013, 09:45:40 pm
People always state 1vs1 situations as an example and what they forget is that agi usually does better when he's getting 1vs2+ and it's harder to gank an agi guy. Str builds are getting gangbanged quite easily and even though they have their shittons of hp and armour but yet they can't do anything. Str builds can't exist alone as agi builds can.
Personally I prefer STR builds for being ganked by anything less than 4 people, after that agi builds if I can properly outrun them, if I'm slower than anyone of them then I'll once again consider an STR stacker superior.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Kafein on June 10, 2013, 10:52:15 pm
The agi build can work right if you are an excellent blocker and can kill quickly despite low PS. The STR build can work if you play like a retard and are lucky for a few seconds. But the agi build lets you run if there are really too many.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Thomek on June 11, 2013, 12:50:13 am
This is a very old horse to beat, but it hasn't been mentioned in a good while.

Armor requirements are too low, and OR their weights needs to be adjusted so they reflect and interact with efficiency better..
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: owens on June 11, 2013, 01:07:45 am
I believe low armour req is an artifact of 2010 cRPG nothing more
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: Ronin on June 11, 2013, 09:21:05 pm
Panos, that's just total bullshit. 
You obviously have not tried playing high agi 2h, let me tell you how it feels.
1) You can't outspam everyone. It's is just easier to spam, but even so, you can only spam when your enemy makes a mistake in his timing. You can also spam with high str builds really effectively because of non-glancing attacks at any angle, btw.
2) Heavy armor is utterly useless for an high-agi char. Why? Because it cuts your athletics to zero. You can still be (comparingly) fast when running straight (as well as any str-plate crutcher), but you lose all your ability to change your moving directions smoothly, and it is the main purpose of having athletics, not running fast. And so all the speed bonus fades away.
3) You don't get much protection because of low HP (low str + usuallo no IF). The heavier armor you use, the more useless your agi becomes (which is nt noticeable for str- and very noticeable for agi-chars.

 Now about pros:
1) You're maneuverable and fast (if you use right gear).
2) Speed bonus kinda compensates for low damage if you use it.

Of course, no one should underestimate the advantage of being maneuverable. It's easier to break through the enemy's "block barrier" (I mean to make him miss a hit), you can change your targets really quickly in the fight, you can run away in a lot of bad situations. But still it leaves you really fragile and weak.

If agi characters are so effective in heavy armor, why do you think they're so shit on Strat, where everyone's using heavy armor? Think about it...



PS: what I agree with you on though, is that the difficulty of heavy armor should go up to 21 str or even 24. I want tincans to be slower and stronger, as they should be.

Pretty much correct, but I want to add one more thing. After playing with an 12 agility character I realized that it is extremely difficult to hunt people from behind. My effectiveness in crowd fights dropped a bit. I suppose the best builds are the ones that has enough AGI for enough mobility, and rest into STR for hitting power.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: Kafein on June 11, 2013, 09:54:54 pm
Pretty much correct, but I want to add one more thing. After playing with an 12 agility character I realized that it is extremely difficult to hunt people from behind. My effectiveness in crowd fights dropped a bit. I suppose the best builds are the ones that has enough AGI for enough mobility, and rest into STR for hitting power.

That's more of a fighting style thing. STR stackers quickly learn to abuse Warband's take on bunny hopping, and make people come at them instead of the opposite.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Jarold on June 11, 2013, 10:58:13 pm
The agi build can work right if you are an excellent blocker and can kill quickly despite low PS. The STR build can work if you play like a retard and are lucky for a few seconds. But the agi build lets you run if there are really too many.

What is really scary is fighting a pure strength stacker with plate who can block. Now those guys are formidable foes. Sure agi is hard to fight too but you only have to hit them a few times at most.

But the downside in them being str and plate stackers is that they usually get gangbanged ping ponged killed.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: sF_Guardian on June 11, 2013, 11:45:02 pm
Oh man, so much madness...
If you get spammed by close to ANY weapon in the game you either use a Long Maul, Long Spear, Pike or fists or you just played bad.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Kafein on June 12, 2013, 03:22:56 pm
Oh man, so much madness...
If you get spammed by close to ANY weapon in the game you either use a Long Maul, Long Spear, Pike or fists or you just played bad.

Or you attempted anything that wasn't a straight attack or spam, trying to be a good aggressive player like in the oll times.

What is really scary is fighting a pure strength stacker with plate who can block. Now those guys are formidable foes. Sure agi is hard to fight too but you only have to hit them a few times at most.

But the downside in them being str and plate stackers is that they usually get gangbanged ping ponged killed.

Good STR blockers are formidable opponents as long as you are the one under pressure to kill them. If time is on your side and you make the effort to relax and try to play it safe a bit (which I personally often fail to do), they aren't that dangerous.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: MrShine on June 12, 2013, 05:56:48 pm
I think it`s time for another permaban.

oh goody, time to bust these out again

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Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ?? VIDEO ADDED!
Post by: Bulzur on June 12, 2013, 07:03:43 pm
While the arguments may be quite bad, the idea behind it is legit.
A slight upgrade of the STR requirement for armors wouldn't hurt.

It could come with the "new" wpf curve, so that AGI builds don't get all the love.
Title: Re: Can you increase the armour difficulty ??
Post by: Ronin on June 12, 2013, 11:33:32 pm
That's more of a fighting style thing. STR stackers quickly learn to abuse Warband's take on bunny hopping, and make people come at them instead of the opposite.
Ah you are correct of course. But missing some opportunities because of low movement speed has it's impact on STR builds' effectiveness. For backpedalling and spamming, AGI is not that much vital. In fact I find it quite the opposite in some situations. Especially about the spamming part.