It`s really retarded, Im playing with a poleaxe with 9 PS and from 10 blunt hits, only 1 or 2 knock down, but on the other hand, I`m getting knockdown from 1handers pretty easy..
REALLY??
I have an idea, lets remove every weapon instead. Every day theres crying over how this and that is op
Code: [Select](rand(0.0, 1.0) < min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * min((raw_damage - 20.0) * 0.5, 10.0) * 0.015)
This is the line that determines knockdown as far as I know. Assuming that a good hit will most likely hit the upper border for the raw_damage(40 dam), even with a 1h mace, it would simplify to:Code: [Select](rand(0.0, 1.0) < min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * 0.15)
With a weapon lighter than the upper weight limit of 6, it would further simplify to:Code: [Select](rand(0.0, 1.0) < item_weight * 0.05
So a winged mace with the weight of 1.8 would have a kd chance of 1.8/20 = 9% and a mallet with a weight of 6 would have 6/20=30%. Getting knocked down twice in a row would mean for the mace: 9%*9%=0.081%<1%. Happens less than one in a hundred times. It's a bit more likely for the mallet (30%*30%=9%) but the recipient will most likely be dead before.
I don't really see a problem here. Personally I'd substitude the luck based knockdown with a skillbased one, but that would take work. Also cmp busy and I have dragons to kill.
The mechanic for knockdown is (rand(0.0, 1.0) < min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * min((raw_damage - 20.0) * 0.5, 10.0) * 0.015) according to Paul (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,20938.msg299772.html#msg299772). How this kind of equation works is that the higher the right side value is, the higher the chance of success is. Percentual chance of success is the right side of equation.
This means two things affect knockdown chance. Weight of the item and raw damage of the swing. If we assume a hit does at least 40 raw damage, which is very likely for a decent hit from almost any weapon with knockdown with 5 PS or so, the knockdown chance boils down to min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * 0.15. This means that the maximum weight for this calculation is 6. This results in the knockdown chance being 0.0495 * item_weight, meaing 4.95% chance of knockdown per item weight (this could be rounded to 5% like Paul did, but 0.33 isnt 1/3 for exact chance). This allows tabling some weights:
Weight 1.5 (Hammer, Club): 7.425%
Weight 2.5 (Flanged Mace, Iron Mace, Goedendag): 12.375%
Weight 3 (Warhammer, Long Hafterd Spiked Mace): 14.85%
Weight 4.5 (Long Iron Mace, Bar Mace: 22.275%
Weight 6 and above (every crushthrough weapon): 29.7%
The effect of damage is a multiplier to this chance, min((raw_damage - 20.0) * 0.5, 10.0). At 40 or more raw damage the multiplier is it's maximum (10), resulting in our assumed values above. Attacks below 20 raw damage cause the multiplier to be 0, meaning 0% chance of knockdown. Between 20 and 40 raw damage each point of raw damage increases the multiplier by 0.05. This means that the knockdown chance calculated above goes down by 5% per point of raw damage below 40 (for example 38 damage attack with a warhammer means 14.85% * 0.9 = 13.365% chance of knockdown). As said above though, in most practical cases most of these weapons will deal at least 40 raw damage with a decent hit, so that part of the equation is fairly meaningless.
I never said 1h weapons are op, I just find it irritating how a dude with a 70 cm weapon and 12 str can knock me down easier than a polearmer with 9 ps.
At least make knockdown chance STR based, and not based on luck
still kinda silly to get knocked down by peasant with stick while i am high strenght character with superheavy armor :(
still kinda silly to get knocked down by peasant with stick while i am high strenght character with superheavy armor :(
Good point.
Strength - oriented builds (in heavy armor) should not be knockdown so easily - especially with 1H weapons.
Its much easier to get hit by a 1 hander than a pole, especially when 1 handers have shields. Thats the main point that makes it seem to knockdown more frequently - they just get more hits in and so the chance to proc in a fight is higher. 1 knockdown is a death sentence too, means at least 1 hit when down by nearby enemies + the usual kick that follows leading into more hits
Make the knockdown chance, STR based, and not LUCK based.
I find it harder to defend against 1 hand left swing and overhead than any polearm attack personally. Also you don't have to worry about attack direction so much as a shielder, and you can attack straight after a block without so much delay as when weapon stunned
Derp img is kind of cheap too, leave Panos alone!. There is always an element of luck involved with knockdown afaik. It goes up to 30% or so? Well unless its either 0% or 100% chance to proc it is full of randomness
Knockdown is only a problem when you cant block.
1h maces are fast with good dmg and balanced
military hammer is super OP and all of that weapons need or unbalanced tag or no knockdown, 1h maces knockdown to much
anyway it is possible to make knockdown possible only after hold?
poleaxe is difrent story, probably best weapon in game, but blunt dmg is kind of low and weapon after all is slowe, barmace is kind of op (2,3 hit almost everyone with 24 str)
but have shity lenght to speed ratio
whole problem with blunt weapons in game is that knockdown is random after all and Random... in skill based game
I lowe to see knockdown only after holds , maybe leave mauls like they are now
military hammer is super OPMilitary hammer really is super OP.
Military hammer really is super OP.(click to show/hide)
...and the baseball bat is one of the worst 2h with knockdown
Does studded warclub use the 2h thrust animation?
It uses pole
Goedendag uses 2h idk if it can knockdown though but it's like 117 length or something ridiculous lol.
AH. Knockdown lolstabs would be a hoot. I don't know why more people don't use the goat-tag. Fast, long, can lolstob, knockdown, etc.
and if I had to make a guess as to why it's not used that often it'd be because of it's low-low base dmg, even lower than the warclub means that a high cut weapon will out do it (if you're not a wimp and have like 6-7ps) the majority of the time in damage as well as having the bonuses the cut weapon may have (faster speed, shield breaking, more damage on stab, length, less weight)
...and the baseball bat is one of the worst 2h with knockdownI know right.