Decrease or even better remove the chance of knockdown of 1h blunt weapons

[Panos]

[Kafein]

It`s really retarded, Im playing with a poleaxe with 9 PS and from 10 blunt hits, only 1 or 2 knock down, but on the other hand, I`m getting knockdown from 1handers pretty easy..

REALLY??

You knock people down more than them. The only thing that makes you think otherwise is that 1h blunt need 8658464 hits to kill people.

[bavvoz]

I have an idea, lets remove every weapon instead. Every day theres crying over how this and that is op

[Panos]

I have an idea, lets remove every weapon instead. Every day theres crying over how this and that is op

I never said 1h weapons are op, I just find it irritating how a dude with a 70 cm weapon and 12 str can knock me down easier than a polearmer with 9 ps.

At least make knockdown chance STR based, and not based on luck

[Moncho]

Code: [Select]

(rand(0.0, 1.0) < min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * min((raw_damage - 20.0) * 0.5, 10.0) * 0.015)
This is the line that determines knockdown as far as I know. Assuming that a good hit will most likely hit the upper border for the raw_damage(40 dam), even with a 1h mace, it would simplify to:

Code: [Select]

(rand(0.0, 1.0) < min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) *  0.15)
With a weapon lighter than the upper weight limit of 6, it would further simplify to:

Code: [Select]

(rand(0.0, 1.0) < item_weight *  0.05
So a winged mace with the weight of 1.8 would have a kd chance of 1.8/20 = 9% and a mallet with a weight of 6 would have 6/20=30%. Getting knocked down twice in a row would mean for the mace: 9%*9%=0.081%<1%. Happens less than one in a hundred times. It's a bit more likely for the mallet (30%*30%=9%) but the recipient will most likely be dead before.

I don't really see a problem here. Personally I'd substitude the luck based knockdown with a skillbased one, but that would take work. Also cmp busy and I have dragons to kill.

So 1h weapons do have a lower chance to kd than your poleaxe...
This might be a matter of perception, of only remembering the hits that actually knocked you down, and amplifying them in your head (happens to me often)

Also, from the game mechanic megathread:

The mechanic for knockdown is (rand(0.0, 1.0) < min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * min((raw_damage - 20.0) * 0.5, 10.0) * 0.015) according to Paul (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,20938.msg299772.html#msg299772). How this kind of equation works is that the higher the right side value is, the higher the chance of success is. Percentual chance of success is the right side of equation.

This means two things affect knockdown chance. Weight of the item and raw damage of the swing. If we assume a hit does at least 40 raw damage, which is very likely for a decent hit from almost any weapon with knockdown with 5 PS or so, the knockdown chance boils down to min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * 0.15. This means that the maximum weight for this calculation is 6. This results in the knockdown chance being 0.0495 * item_weight, meaing 4.95% chance of knockdown per item weight (this could be rounded to 5% like Paul did, but 0.33 isnt 1/3 for exact chance). This allows tabling some weights:

Weight 1.5 (Hammer, Club): 7.425%
Weight 2.5 (Flanged Mace, Iron Mace, Goedendag): 12.375%
Weight 3 (Warhammer, Long Hafterd Spiked Mace): 14.85%
Weight 4.5 (Long Iron Mace, Bar Mace: 22.275%
Weight 6 and above (every crushthrough weapon): 29.7%

The effect of damage is a multiplier to this chance, min((raw_damage - 20.0) * 0.5, 10.0). At 40 or more raw damage the multiplier is it's maximum (10), resulting in our assumed values above. Attacks below 20 raw damage cause the multiplier to be 0, meaning 0% chance of knockdown. Between 20 and 40 raw damage each point of raw damage increases the multiplier by 0.05. This means that the knockdown chance calculated above goes down by 5% per point of raw damage below 40 (for example 38 damage attack with a warhammer means 14.85% * 0.9 = 13.365% chance of knockdown). As said above though, in most practical cases most of these weapons will deal at least 40 raw damage with a decent hit, so that part of the equation is fairly meaningless.

[Panos]

Cheers moncho!

Solves a lot of my questions

[bavvoz]

I never said 1h weapons are op, I just find it irritating how a dude with a 70 cm weapon and 12 str can knock me down easier than a polearmer with 9 ps.

At least make knockdown chance STR based, and not based on luck

Sry guess it was a reflex from me on how many in this community overuse the word "op".

[Tibe]

Yep. All in your mind. Code never lies.

[Latvian]

still kinda silly to get knocked down by peasant with stick while i am high strenght character with superheavy armor

[Gravoth_iii]

Any knockdown weapon has 100% knockdown when fighting me. The time spent knocked down should be decreased, so that you can get up in time to block the next attack but stuck in place enough for the enemy to follow up with a kick if planned out correctly.

[Sagar]

still kinda silly to get knocked down by peasant with stick while i am high strenght character with superheavy armor

Good point.

Strength - oriented builds (in heavy armor) should not be knockdown so easily - especially with 1H weapons.

[Crob28]

1handers often hit the head, increasing the raw damage of the swing and making knockdown more likely.

[Leesin]

I think the most puzzling bit about it all is why some 1h mace are 2.5 weight yet a long hafted spiked mace is 3 weight, with only roughly a 2% more chance to knock down according to those calcuations.

 Surely a large piece of thick hard wood with a big lump of metal on the end is going to be more than just 0.5 heavier than a little 1h mace?. I think that's why I stopped using it in the end, the 1h maces seemed to knock down just as much, if not even more than my long hafted spiked mace, because the fact 1h weapons have an easier time hitting the head, amplifying the damage and increasing the knock down chance?. Considering Long Hafted Spiked mace is double the length than the Iron Mace, with a huge lump of metal on the end, just 91 speed and the Unbalanced trait, doesn't it deserve more than a 2% advantage over a 1h mace where knockdown is concerned?. Buff LHSM weight for increased knockdown chance! (thread hijacked )

[wayyyyyne]

knockdown is strength based (not solely though) and the damage increase you get by hitting someone's head is only 10% for melee weapons

[karasu]

Nothing like blocking those blunt weapons and giving more focus on them when encountering multiple enemies. After all, they are by definition slow and short weapons.