1h cavs on heavy horse like me would be pwned by lancer cavs without having any chance to hit back.
Cav is still pretty OP though, 1h cav is tearing through infantry like crazy. Constantly getting oneshot by them. I guess lance cav is rare now though, but i still think they are good as they are. Horses are still super tanky and shields on horseback blocks 90% of your body, and even the horses body. I'd like to see horses becoming weaker if cav is to get a buff.
Also make stakes 1 slot, damage nerf on them was enough, we should atleast be able to spam them ;)
I agree that we are at a fragile state of balance atm, and that the larger lance angle might disrupt the current state. but I suspect it would have a greatly lesser impact then most of you think.
Yes because you struggle so much with your K:D ratio and cav is so difficult Torben..
+1Alternative conclusion: 1h cavalry needs a nerf, the damage output of 1h cav is insane. Getting one shot all the time by people with a mere 6 ps. You see more and more of them on the server, because they are incredibly strong. Half the time they don't even really go fast and yet take a huge chunk out of your hp.
Played (Heavy) Lance cavalry
Played Great Lance cavalry
Played 1h Cavalry with Arabian Cavalry Sword and Paramerion
You buy some length with the lances, but compared to 1h cav they're just complete garbage. Needs some love.
Alternative conclusion: 1h cavalry needs a nerfinstead of nerfing things, lets just buff everything else
Alternative conclusion: 1h cavalry needs a nerf, the damage output of 1h cav is insane. Getting one shot all the time by people with a mere 6 ps. You see more and more of them on the server, because they are incredibly strong. Half the time they don't even really go fast and yet take a huge chunk out of your hp.
Even I did well as 1h cav and I was incredibly horrible at it, and I was using a Knightly Arming sword.
Alternative conclusion: 1h cavalry needs a nerf, the damage output of 1h cav is insane. Getting one shot all the time by people with a mere 6 ps.
Played lancer for a while recently, its not unplayable. Its not great either.
I saw it more as a supporting class, soon as melee engaged I would lance someone for 60-80% hp and bump 3 more down. Then circle round and repeat. No kills, but good for team.
As a 1h cav, most of my kills are backstabbs because everything can outreach me. Even though I'm using a +3 arabian cavalry shorter things can hit me while I can't.
Sooooooo I was wondering.... after horses maneuverability, lethality and survivability, and after lance damage being nerfed again and again, after couching with thrustable lances not being a real option anymore, after battlefield awareness of footsoldiers having increased a lot, after hoplites and pikes having appeared everywhere, HX having popped up like little annoying zerglings (seriously, HA used to be a problem, now they arent even worthy of a mentioning poor bastards :/), after 1 and 2h cav having gained the experience and skill to block down...
could we, for the timeframe of one patch, restore old lance angle and just see how it does these days?
pretty please?
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look im even using a cat picture
I'm just going to leave this here.arab warhorse was so op back then :DD
You might want to skip to like 40 seconds in, this is just some unedited footage I uploaded a while back.
Torben y and Oberyn and one GK guy are so deadly as lancers.
Arab warhorse and heavy lance with plate and you guys are untouchable. Almost every time i tried to kill you as 1h cav with plate i died in one lance stab or i got dehorsed.
You don't deserve any buff.
arab warhorse was so op back then :DD
Was :?: :lol: still is :wink:
Anyways, lancing was alot more fun back then, but for fuck sake it was OP!!
Sooooooo I was wondering.... after horses maneuverability, lethality and survivability, and after lance damage being nerfed again and again, after couching with thrustable lances not being a real option anymore, after battlefield awareness of footsoldiers having increased a lot, after hoplites and pikes having appeared everywhere, HX having popped up like little annoying zerglings (seriously, HA used to be a problem, now they arent even worthy of a mentioning poor bastards :/), after 1 and 2h cav having gained the experience and skill to block down...
could we, for the timeframe of one patch, restore old lance angle and just see how it does these days?
pretty please?
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
look im even using a cat picture
I'm just going to leave this here.
You might want to skip to like 40 seconds in, this is just some unedited footage I uploaded a while back.
Torben y and Oberyn and one GK guy are so deadly as lancers.So, according to your logic, all shielders should be buffed because you're a terrible shielder?
Arab warhorse and heavy lance with plate and you guys are untouchable. Almost every time i tried to kill you as 1h cav with plate i died in one lance stab or i got dehorsed.
You don't deserve any buff.
So, according to your logic, all shielders should be buffed because you're a terrible shielder?
According to my logic lancer cav is fine as it is,and you talk shit that i didn't say.What I meant is few players doing good with some class doesn't prove this class is good. Using "You're deadly enough" as an argument is quite ridiculous.
I don't mind. The problems with cav don't origin from the lance angle, so it wouldn't make things worse for infantry. But cav vs. cav fights could become easier again. Don't know if this means they become more interesting. Guess not.
tankiness
Anyone claiming light horses are hard to bump with are kidding themselves, my 0+ steppe horse can bump all infantry at decent speed levels...
but being stopped at full speed on flat ground by a single peasant should not happen, and a destrier being stopped by 2-3 shouldnt either. ever.
Just a tip for anyone reading this and getting killed:
How to kill a stopped horse:
Keep walking in front of the nose of the horse, hug the horse nose!
Then he cannot accelerate, and will not get away.. I don't see many players using this trick except a few, so go and try it out!
Just a tip for anyone reading this and getting killed:
How to kill a stopped horse:
Keep walking in front of the nose of the horse, hug the horse nose!
Then he cannot accelerate, and will not get away.. I don't see many players using this trick except a few, so go and try it out!
Just a tip for anyone reading this and getting killed:
How to kill a stopped horse:
Keep walking in front of the nose of the horse, hug the horse nose!
Then he cannot accelerate, and will not get away.. I don't see many players using this trick except a few, so go and try it out!
Just a tip for anyone reading this and getting killed:
How to kill a stopped horse:
Keep walking in front of the nose of the horse, hug the horse nose!
Then he cannot accelerate, and will not get away.. I don't see many players using this trick except a few, so go and try it out!
I could add AoE-knockback when using ctrl+j - for donators.
I find it a huge and popular mistake to try to "ballance" a class in comparision to situations that are in the comfort zone of the other ("stronger") class.
A class design that allows lancers to be effective against 1h cav in a close duel situation is flawed.
A class design that allowes slow moving 1h cav to be effective against an hot incoming lancer is flawed.
Because it rewards playing the class outside its role and thus breaks the game on an elementry gameplay level.
A game should reward playing the class in "the right way" and not for "doing it wrong" ... in relatioin to the way the class is designed which in our case is a mix of historic correctness and heroic role image.
Now tell me please, why does a lancer need a bigger angle ? What immersion and role reward would you get from doing that ?(click to show/hide)
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1h/2h cav, if done right, are more effective vs cav, and in many situations as good or better as lancers vs infantry.
I suspect this has happened because of the damage nerfs and the simultaneous skill increase of sword cav. People obviously dont want a more damaging heavy lance, so I am wondering if the lance angle is that important now that many other factors have changed.
maybe lancers would find a place on the field being less hit&run backstaby, less "we all need arab warhorses", while also not being OP as they used to considering them not doing a lot of damage. maybe their role should not be the anti cav (and everything else) weapon they used to be, but the anti HX, HA and inf ranged weapon.
I do understand that the lance and light lance would become more lethal on different levels now, because their effective range would increase... on the other hand they are atm being outreached by an arab cav sword thogh, considering their length to the horse nose if attacking in a 90° angle.
idk. it feels like sth needs to be done. this change might not be the right one, but it sure as hell would be interesting to see how it works out these days.
ok but how to do that without nerfing lance cav? Nerf the cavalry swords?Shield-force on horseback. Just make it smaller.
Shield-force on horseback. Just make it smaller.
heavy lance ... least make it faster or sth. It's a joke not a weapon.
Shield-force on horseback. Just make it smaller.
its not "hard". its pressing W after all. but being stopped at full speed on flat ground by a single peasant should not happen, and a destrier being stopped by 2-3 shouldnt either. ever. at least the first thing seems to be a seldom bug.I've never, in all my cRPG playtime, been stopped by one guy if I'm riding in the slightest speed levels, at high speeds I can make it through 2, and imo you shouldn't be able to make it through 3 unless you're riding a plated charger.
also quite sad what amounts of speed one needs to actually get past a person in normal situations. ahrg.
In cav vs. cav fights and in case of sex the length is a pretty important value. It can make up for a lot of disadvantages.
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I think that buff lance turn of attacking and small buff of couching will be enoughTo state it bluntly: I think that the only reason why lancers want their broader lance angle back is , to pull off this sick and unrealistic turn stab which is far from any propper playstyle for the class. The reason why it should not be changed is that it causes people to play the class in a wrong way. Wrong , because lancer cav should work with speed and straight ahead lancing ( with some angle ) and not a 180° outranging stabbing vehicle. Youz always have to add the turnspeed of the horse to the lancing angle btw...
To state it bluntly: I think that the only reason why lancers want their broader lance angle back is , to pull off this sick and unrealistic turn stab which is far from any propper playstyle for the class. The reason why it should not be changed is that it causes people to play the class in a wrong way. Wrong , because lancer cav should work with speed and straight ahead lancing ( with some angle ) and not a 180° outranging stabbing vehicle. Youz always have to add the turnspeed of the horse to the lancing angle btw...
If any , there should be changes in other ways, but thats not point of this discussion.
:oops:
And you don't still don't adress the fact that 2h outreach lances without the large angle.Thats because its an unspecified lie and most propably butthurt-teasing.
I'm just going to leave this here.
You might want to skip to like 40 seconds in, this is just some unedited footage I uploaded a while back.
And you still don't adress the fact that 2h outreach lances without the large angle.2h is only problem when 2h gets under your horse and gets bumped while he just started his attack animation and then you suddenly die because as you interrupted his animation while it just started getting executed, it gets executed instantly. But same happens when you bump spearmen who just started their attack. Their timing was wrong or something but yet they still kill you because they were bumped.
For some reason people fail to undrestand that reach is length combined with speed. Then, when your timing is good you get max reach in proper moment. So with heavy lance it's harder to get max reach in proper moment because it has way less speed. On the other hand it's easier to get max reach in good moment because it's way faster.
2h is only problem when 2h gets under your horse and gets bumped while he just started his attack animation and then you suddenly die because as you interrupted his animation while it just started getting executed, it gets executed instantly. But same happens when you bump spearmen who just started their attack. Their timing was wrong or something but yet they still kill you because they were bumped.i always wondered what that was and it always felt very glitchy to die that way on horseback ... eventhough i think i never pulled that off as 2h :oops:
Shame on you Mr! :rolleyes: :lol:
EDIT: Fuck, I double posted. y u no rite b4 i paste!
Before I ask my counterquestion I'd like to state that my time as cavalry was long ago, and it wasn't a long period, so I understand little of the mechanics.
But doesn't the slower speed mean that the animation is played lower, which means it is plyed for a longer time? Wouldn't that mean that with the slow animation the tip of the lance will remain for a longer time at the maximum possible distance to the player when stabbing? Wouldn't that go against your statement?
Because with a fast lance the time window for maximum reach would be much smaller, and thus it would be more difficult to find the right moment, wouldn't it? On the other hand faster lances have the advantage of being at maximum reach much faster, which means you have better chances in surprising moment, if you have no diffiulties finding the right moment to stab with max reach of course.
You know what I mean?
realy? players like oberyn doent seem to be affected by lance angle limit. QQ more torben :p
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realy? players like oberyn doent seem to be affected by lance angle limit. QQ more torben :p nerff lances somehow (if that is still possible)
realy? players like oberyn doent seem to be affected by lance angle limit. QQ more torben :p nerff lances somehow (if that is still possible)Oberyn rides this thing called a champion arabian warhorse, that thing got insane agility and is the only horse so agile it can turn enough to simulate native turn limits.
That isn't really an argument. Also ask Oberyn about what he thinks of the lance angle.
after battlefield awareness of footsoldiers having increased a lot,
after 1 and 2h cav having gained the experience and skill to block down...
could we, for the timeframe of one patch, restore old lance angle and just see how it does these days?
Fuckit... i was gonna be a smartass and go lancer/1h and tbh i regret ever putting points into polearm :!: :!:
1h cav is so much more fun then lancing :lol:
Yeah you need to be on a fast or agile horse for lancer cav to be worth it. If you use a regular lance, then a destrier is fast enough to still do good damage. Any armored horses and I'd recommend not using a lance.
I love using MW Lance on Champ Courser, a heavy lance would be good on a courser or arabian as well
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