Author Topic: lance angle, once more :D  (Read 4711 times)

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Offline Micah

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Re: lance angle, once more :D
« Reply #75 on: June 07, 2013, 12:37:19 pm »
+1
I think that buff  lance turn of  attacking and small buff of couching will be enough
To state it bluntly: I think that the only reason why lancers want their broader lance angle back is , to pull off this sick and unrealistic turn stab which is far from any propper playstyle for the class. The reason why it should not be changed is that it causes people to play the class in a wrong way. Wrong , because lancer cav should work with speed and straight ahead lancing ( with some angle ) and not a 180° outranging stabbing vehicle. Youz always have to add the turnspeed of the horse to the lancing angle btw...
If any , there should be changes in other ways, but thats not point of this discussion.
 :oops:
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 12:51:23 pm by Micah »
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Offline Kafein

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Re: lance angle, once more :D
« Reply #76 on: June 07, 2013, 01:49:07 pm »
+2
To state it bluntly: I think that the only reason why lancers want their broader lance angle back is , to pull off this sick and unrealistic turn stab which is far from any propper playstyle for the class. The reason why it should not be changed is that it causes people to play the class in a wrong way. Wrong , because lancer cav should work with speed and straight ahead lancing ( with some angle ) and not a 180° outranging stabbing vehicle. Youz always have to add the turnspeed of the horse to the lancing angle btw...
If any , there should be changes in other ways, but thats not point of this discussion.
 :oops:

The low angle removed a great part of the skill aspect in lancing, as well as the maneuver nerfs. And you don't still don't adress the fact that 2h outreach lances without the large angle.

Offline Micah

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Re: lance angle, once more :D
« Reply #77 on: June 07, 2013, 02:43:19 pm »
-1
And you don't still don't adress the fact that 2h outreach lances without the large angle.
Thats because its an unspecified lie and most propably butthurt-teasing.
Furthermore its not arguing against my statement that classes/mechanics should map role oriented gameplay, as opposed to mere buff-nerf-QQ of people with PKer mentality that play the game only to see their name ontop of some scoreboard instead of playing to enjoying a medival role. If for example a danish greatsword user ( thats a specific 2h weapon btw) can outtime or outmaneuver (not outrange) lances against any reasonable role image and perhaps as an unintended exploit of game mechanics , it should obviously be corrected to fit the intended role.
I for one can quite well imagine that. Having good chance of win in an open encounter against another knight on a horse sounds really fitting to an image of a warrior with a great sword to me. You MAY not agree. Edit: aswell a mounted knight should have a fair chance against a greatsword user ...

I concluded , that its my best bet to ignore and hope you go away .. but that didnt happen
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 03:59:24 pm by Micah »
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Offline Tzar

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Re: lance angle, once more :D
« Reply #78 on: June 07, 2013, 03:41:36 pm »
0
I'm just going to leave this here.


You might want to skip to like 40 seconds in, this is just some unedited footage I uploaded a while back.

/Thread
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Offline BlueKnight

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Re: lance angle, once more :D
« Reply #79 on: June 08, 2013, 08:36:45 am »
+1
For some reason people fail to undrestand that reach is length combined with speed. Then, when your timing is good you get max reach in proper moment. So with heavy lance it's harder to get max reach in proper moment because it has way less speed. On the other hand it's easier to get max reach in good moment because it's way faster.

I like some nub-hoplites who whine that 2h stab can outrange their stab... hoplite while wielding spear in 1 hand is releasing his stab slower than he would without shield. When I'm playing with my 2h, I know that I have to release my sword faster to sooner reach my max reach so as I am in the end of my animation that nubplite is just in the middle of his and then he whines that 2h outreaches hoplites...  nuffsaid...
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Offline BlueKnight

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Re: lance angle, once more :D
« Reply #80 on: June 08, 2013, 08:45:03 am »
0
And you still don't adress the fact that 2h outreach lances without the large angle.
2h is only problem when 2h gets under your horse and gets bumped while he just started his attack animation and then you suddenly die because as you interrupted his animation while it just started getting executed, it gets executed instantly. But same happens when you bump spearmen who just started their attack. Their timing was wrong or something but yet they still kill you because they were bumped.

As I mentioned that earlier, I still think 35~40 degrees angle on both sides or speed improvement would be a good idea.

EDIT: Fuck, I double posted. y u no rite b4 i paste!
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Offline Joker86

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Re: lance angle, once more :D
« Reply #81 on: June 08, 2013, 01:15:14 pm »
0
For some reason people fail to undrestand that reach is length combined with speed. Then, when your timing is good you get max reach in proper moment. So with heavy lance it's harder to get max reach in proper moment because it has way less speed. On the other hand it's easier to get max reach in good moment because it's way faster.

Before I ask my counterquestion I'd like to state that my time as cavalry was long ago, and it wasn't a long period, so I understand little of the mechanics.

But doesn't the slower speed mean that the animation is played lower, which means it is plyed for a longer time? Wouldn't that mean that with the slow animation the tip of the lance will remain for a longer time at the maximum possible distance to the player when stabbing? Wouldn't that go against your statement?

Because with a fast lance the time window for maximum reach would be much smaller, and thus it would be more difficult to find the right moment, wouldn't it? On the other hand faster lances have the advantage of being at maximum reach much faster, which means you have better chances in surprising moment, if you have no diffiulties finding the right moment to stab with max reach of course.

You know what I mean?
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Micah

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Re: lance angle, once more :D
« Reply #82 on: June 08, 2013, 01:37:27 pm »
0
2h is only problem when 2h gets under your horse and gets bumped while he just started his attack animation and then you suddenly die because as you interrupted his animation while it just started getting executed, it gets executed instantly. But same happens when you bump spearmen who just started their attack. Their timing was wrong or something but yet they still kill you because they were bumped.
i always wondered what that was and it always felt very glitchy to die that way on horseback  ... eventhough i think i never pulled that off as 2h  :oops:

Quote

EDIT: Fuck, I double posted. y u no rite b4 i paste!
Shame on you Mr! :rolleyes: :lol:
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Offline Kafein

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Re: lance angle, once more :D
« Reply #83 on: June 08, 2013, 03:06:28 pm »
0
Before I ask my counterquestion I'd like to state that my time as cavalry was long ago, and it wasn't a long period, so I understand little of the mechanics.

But doesn't the slower speed mean that the animation is played lower, which means it is plyed for a longer time? Wouldn't that mean that with the slow animation the tip of the lance will remain for a longer time at the maximum possible distance to the player when stabbing? Wouldn't that go against your statement?

Because with a fast lance the time window for maximum reach would be much smaller, and thus it would be more difficult to find the right moment, wouldn't it? On the other hand faster lances have the advantage of being at maximum reach much faster, which means you have better chances in surprising moment, if you have no diffiulties finding the right moment to stab with max reach of course.

You know what I mean?

Speed is fairly important because as someone sitting on a porcelain horse, you can't afford to commit to anything that can hurt you given things that could happen during the period of time between the instant you decide to attack and the instant your attack lands. The heavy lance requires the user the longest commitment time in the whole game, which makes it extremely weak to bait & switch techniques.

Offline Tzar

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Re: lance angle, once more :D
« Reply #84 on: June 08, 2013, 03:12:40 pm »
+1
Couldn't they just increase the angle just a tiny bit instead of reverting back to troloolol heli stabcopter  :?:lol:

Can only agree on the current lancing techniques is really boring... But i still find the old lance angle to make 1h cav obsolete
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline BlueKnight

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Re: lance angle, once more :D
« Reply #85 on: June 08, 2013, 03:18:00 pm »
+1
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

TL;DR
lance 2 slow - animation reaches useful maximum usually too late, prone to enemies who are changing position.

lance just as lance - timing easier to perform and can forgive a small change of placement of the enemy.

lance 2 fast - animation reaches max superquickly, but it's hard to attack not too early or too late. Have to attack in the very good moment. If enemy moves or not doesn't really change anything.

EDIT: I spoilered my wall of text.

EDIT2: Basically there are 3 important factors when it comes to lances: speed, length and damage. Length can't be discussed without taking speed into account. Speed also influents timing and timing influents damage delivered to the enemy. That's why speed of the lance is an important factor. WomenPeople used to be like length is everything. Now length, damage and speed are all 3 that decide what weapon is good weapon. Heavy lance lacks one of those two new features, either speed or damage.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 03:28:12 pm by BlueKnight »
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Offline Latvian

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Re: lance angle, once more :D
« Reply #86 on: June 08, 2013, 03:31:24 pm »
0
realy? players like oberyn doent seem to be affected by lance angle limit. QQ more torben :p  nerff lances somehow (if that is still possible)
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Re: lance angle, once more :D
« Reply #87 on: June 08, 2013, 03:36:16 pm »
0
realy? players like oberyn doent seem to be affected by lance angle limit. QQ more torben :p 

Indeed, i still see good lance cav pull of 20 kills 1 death scores.
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Offline Joker86

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Re: lance angle, once more :D
« Reply #88 on: June 08, 2013, 04:08:34 pm »
0
Joker makes a very good point.
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Re: lance angle, once more :D
« Reply #89 on: June 08, 2013, 04:37:00 pm »
0
arab cav horses everywhere.  even in my stables.  gay.
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