lance angle, once more :D

[Tzar]

I could add AoE-knockback when using ctrl+j - for donators.

It should only be for the plated charger, since its tottaly sheeeet 

[Kafein]

I find it a huge and popular mistake to try to "ballance" a class in comparision to situations that are in the comfort zone of the other ("stronger") class.
A class design that allows lancers to be effective against 1h cav in a close  duel situation is flawed.
A class design that allowes slow moving 1h cav to be effective against an hot incoming lancer is flawed.
Because it rewards playing the class outside its role and thus breaks the game on an elementry gameplay level.
A game should reward playing the class in "the right way" and  not for "doing it wrong" ...  in relatioin to the way the class is designed which in our case is a mix of historic correctness and heroic role image.

Now tell me please, why does a lancer need a bigger angle ? What immersion and role reward would you get from doing that ?

(click to show/hide)

YES PWEASE! i wanna see that 

Because a 2h is outside of his role when he outreaches your lance and oneshots your horse.

[Torben]

(click to show/hide)

I find it a huge and popular mistake to try to "ballance" a class in comparision to situations that are in the comfort zone of the other ("stronger") class.
A class design that allows lancers to be effective against 1h cav in a close  duel situation is flawed.
A class design that allowes slow moving 1h cav to be effective against an hot incoming lancer is flawed.
Because it rewards playing the class outside its role and thus breaks the game on an elementry gameplay level.
A game should reward playing the class in "the right way" and  not for "doing it wrong" ...  in relatioin to the way the class is designed which in our case is a mix of historic correctness and heroic role image.

Now tell me please, why does a lancer need a bigger angle ? What immersion and role reward would you get from doing that ?

(click to show/hide)

YES PWEASE! i wanna see that 

1h/2h cav,  if done right,  are more effective vs cav,  and in many situations as good or better as lancers vs infantry.
I suspect this has happened because of the damage nerfs and the simultaneous skill increase of sword cav.  People obviously dont want a more damaging heavy lance,  so I am wondering if the lance angle is that important now that many other factors have changed.
maybe lancers would find a place on the field being less hit&run backstaby,  less "we all need arab warhorses",  while also not being OP as they used to considering them not doing a lot of damage.  maybe their role should not be the anti cav (and everything else) weapon they used to be,  but the anti HX, HA and inf ranged weapon.
I do understand that the lance and light lance would become more lethal on different levels now,  because their effective range would increase... on the other hand they are atm being outreached by an arab cav sword thogh,  considering their length to the horse nose if attacking in a 90° angle.
idk.  it feels like sth needs to be done.  this change might not be the right one,  but it sure as hell would be interesting to see how it works out these days.

[Gravoth_iii]

1h/2h cav,  if done right,  are more effective vs cav,  and in many situations as good or better as lancers vs infantry.
I suspect this has happened because of the damage nerfs and the simultaneous skill increase of sword cav.  People obviously dont want a more damaging heavy lance,  so I am wondering if the lance angle is that important now that many other factors have changed.
maybe lancers would find a place on the field being less hit&run backstaby,  less "we all need arab warhorses",  while also not being OP as they used to considering them not doing a lot of damage.  maybe their role should not be the anti cav (and everything else) weapon they used to be,  but the anti HX, HA and inf ranged weapon.
I do understand that the lance and light lance would become more lethal on different levels now,  because their effective range would increase... on the other hand they are atm being outreached by an arab cav sword thogh,  considering their length to the horse nose if attacking in a 90° angle.
idk.  it feels like sth needs to be done.  this change might not be the right one,  but it sure as hell would be interesting to see how it works out these days.

Then lance cav should not be buffed, but 1h cav should be nerfed.

[Thomek]

ok but how to do that without nerfing lance cav? Nerf the cavalry swords?

[CrazyCracka420]

1h/2h and lance cav are fine...

[BlueKnight]

ok but how to do that without nerfing lance cav? Nerf the cavalry swords?

Shield-force on horseback. Just make it smaller.

Tbh I wouldn't change anything with cav. Let it be. But on the other hand, heavy lance having basic damage brought up to 25 wouldn't hurt anyone  or at least make it faster or sth. It's a joke not a weapon.

[Torben]

Shield-force on horseback. Just make it smaller.
heavy lance ... least make it faster or sth. It's a joke not a weapon.

this is my preferred buff. 

[Thomek]

Shield-force on horseback. Just make it smaller.

Have been asked for since 3 years, not likely to happen.

[matt2507]

List of stupid facts for the heavy lance:

1) The +3 heavy lance make less damage than the simple lance +0.
2) The heavy lance +3 has 10 speed point less than the simple lance +0.
3) The heavy lance costs 4230 golds more than the simple lance.
4) The repair of the heavy lance costs 296 golds more than the simple lance.
5) The heavy lance is ranked in the top tier of polearms.
6) The heavy lance need 2 or 3 shots full speed in the back to kill a light archer or a peasent when one hit is enough for most weapons.
7) The heavy lance can easily be outranged by 2H then it is longer than any one.
8) The heavy lance make less damage in couche than in normal use (see "1)" for loling)

Most weapons of similar type works in the same way: The best weapons are gaining length and damage but lose speed and their price increase.
The heavy lance is the only one that loses speed, damages and has increased price.

I have a simple question for the devs: why not just remove it ?

 

[Joker86]

In cav vs. cav fights and in case of sex the length is a pretty important value. It can make up for a lot of disadvantages.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

its not "hard".  its pressing W after all.  but being stopped at full speed on flat ground by a single peasant should not happen,  and a destrier being stopped by 2-3 shouldnt either.  ever.  at least the first thing seems to be a seldom bug.

also quite sad what amounts of speed one needs to actually get past a person in normal situations.  ahrg.

I've never, in all my cRPG playtime, been stopped by one guy if I'm riding in the slightest speed levels, at high speeds I can make it through 2, and imo you shouldn't be able to make it through 3 unless you're riding a plated charger.

[San]

I think some of these lance cav are making things look tougher than it actually is. Bump stabbing with a lance can easily be done, and the length of the lances do indeed help in certain situations that would be difficult with 1h/2h cav.

I'm also confused about the shield force (outside of ranged), because it still seems you have a pretty wide blocking radius when manual blocking, too..

I definitely think shorter polearms should have a better lance angle. As far as longer ones go, it seems ridiculous after looking at that video.

[Torben]

In cav vs. cav fights and in case of sex the length is a pretty important value. It can make up for a lot of disadvantages.

unfortunately the heavy lance is so very slow,  that the foe needs to be taken by surprise or be quite green to not outmaneuver the stab completely or at least reduce damage a lot.

(click to show/hide)

I've never, in all my cRPG playtime, been stopped by one guy if I'm riding in the slightest speed levels, at high speeds I can make it through 2, and imo you shouldn't be able to make it through 3 unless you're riding a plated charger.

3 facts about the "being stopped by one dude": 
-only happened to me on the town map where a small complex of buildings in the middle is surrounded by a street,  and all inf fight on the rooftops.
-always were light armored inf (i.e. "peasants")
-always "chambered" my bump,    they chambered there throwing weapon or maul or whatnot in the instance my horse touches them,  which made it come to a full stop and rear.

made a thread about it the first time it happened.
so it might be a bugged map (I always get a "whatever is smaller then terrain" warning at maps beginning.)


dont get me wrong,  san:  I still like lancing a lot, just feel a bit immobilized by recent changes (active and passive)

[Quentry]

I think that buff  lance turn of  attacking and small buff of couching will be enough