Even the shitty players can do better with an arbalest on foot more than they can with an HX. It does make sense that I already see nothing but a bunch of shitties in this thread crying about HX and have not
see any of you do anything skillful at anything in this game. The counter to HX is ground ranged, get good at it or stop bitching. You should be ashamed and permanently muted for speaking in behalf of other
shitty players and trying to fuck this mod more than it already has been.
Not many play HA as its far more weak than most other classes (or at least you need more stuff to be a good HA, fully loomed equip + high level). Far different to HX.
Btw just happened now. 5 HX (1 died cause he probably failed at riding :P).(click to show/hide)
HX won ofc. :D
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You can buff anything you want, i wont complain.
But fucking remove horse-xbower, make them do 0 damage, give them 0 bonus speed, give them 0 load speed, give their horses 0 speed...retarde mothrfucking damage on horse light crossbows, makes more damage than arbalast.
Jesus motherfucking christ, im out!
I've never seen you do anything skillful either. :idea:
HX will be nerfed I'm sure. EU1 just have to get a bit worse first.. Removing the retarded class wouldn't hurt a bit, but give HA a slight slight buff to make up for it.
As I said - the natural counters of the class (but also, of all mounted ranged classes) got weaker during time. Look up forum posts two years ago, HX, with same stats as now, was a joke/gimmick class which few people bothered to play. You had to be a masochist to pick it over a horse archer, and foot archers would reliably oneshot any 7 str build, with great accuracy. Many infantrymen had throwing weapons too, so riding up close to infantry was largely a bad idea.
All these counters got systematically nerfed so infantry would have an easier time, and we have the situation where the HX is a better class then the HA (tried a few days ago to make a STF HA - it works, but not nearly as well as a HX). That said, if the HX gets nerfed without any other changes, people will make HA STF chars to troll. Because once foot ranged is eliminated / there is too few foot ranged, they can ride around infantry at will, and whether they do 60p or 40p matters very little in the grand scheme of things.
The effect is especially nasty if they are people which can afford to just ignore upkeep for a while (turns out upkeep doesn't work so well) and ride on destriers+, making it incredibly hard to actually down them. That said, all cavalry riding on destriers+ is very hard to down, but at least infantry can prevent melee cavalry from attacking, even if they can't counter them so well anymore.
I'm against deleting the HX class, but it will have to take some sort of nerf eventually. I think downgrading to hunting crossbows and higher str reqs would be enough.
And you still think this would stop the whining and bitching?
No, but it would lessen it. It'd be harder to do well with such a build so there'd be HX STFs trolling people.
Whining about ranged cavalry is going to exist as long as there is ranged cavalry.
We all like some math, don't we? Let's calculate something. LVL32 HA can reach a 18/24 build with 5 riding. He'll have 173wpf. HA skill points reduce this by 10 per level iirc. PD reduces it by 14*6-(1.4^6)=76wpf afaik. That would give him 173-40-76=57 effective wpf in light armor. This does somewhat increase the damage output, but not by much (some dev can tell the numbers maybe?). He'll be most likely using a +3 tatar bow with +3 bodkin arrows. That gives him a base damage of (1+(6*0.14))*29p=53.36p.
HX regardless of his build, will do 65p damage when loomed. That's 22% more than a lvl32 HA can do. HX also has far better accuracy even with a similar 15/24 lvl30 build. 7/30 is a sniper at full speed. Then factor in gold. HX gear costs 5596+2563+2563=10722. HA gear costs 7896+5058+5058=18012. Now remember that archers have a higher probability (twice?) to have their shit broken and you'll see that HA is three times as expensive. That allows HX to use a armored horse and heavier body armor instead of a rouncey and peasant armor. HX can also have PS, which HA can't before he reaches lvl 34 or so.
HA is seriously UP right now, but I'm fine with that. I understand that most players don't want HAs to be too effective and some of the best HAs already do very well in this mod. It requires a lot of skill to do well as one. However the balance between HA and HX is broken to a point that it makes no sense to use a HA right now unless you are a very very high level player. I'm not good with either class, but I tested the HX yesterday and did about 2-3 times better with +0 xbow gear than I do with my HA alt in +0 gear. I could use a +3 large warhorse, 8k gold armor and not lose money and had a positive KD in full on troll mode. I rarely get a positive KD with anything besides 1H cav and 2H str crutcher...
To summarize: Nerf HX and nerf it hard. Also remove the higher chance of repairs from archers. It serves no purpose and makes things less balanced.
Anyway, HX is easy.
Pretty much everyone probably tried HX with a STF and noticed that it's easy.
Anyway, HX is easy. Wonder why anyone would think that he/she is the big achiever by playing that class. Pretty much everyone probably tried HX with a STF and noticed that it's easy. Why trying to make it look otherwise is beyond me.
Because it's harder carrying a team as horse ranged than with any other class in the game?
Harder than thrower? Or any troll class like 9/30 ninja or 3/39 rondel my old friend?
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How can you say that HX/HA are supporter classes? Why can't they carry the team? Why can't anything else than melee be good at solo play? Why must the infantry be the core of the game and not the archers? Who is saying that murder is not legal? Who says that you got to pay taxes while being a citizen? Why do people pray to a God? Why do other people not believe in a God? Why do you get drunk if you drink too much alcohol?While they are part of the game, their gameplay is everything but as unique as the melee-part. Why would you start playing Warband? Surely not for the pew pew but for swinging mighty swords... The 4 axes attacking and blocking is the unique part. Not aiming with a crosshair - and to get the cliché in: go and play CoD if you wanna shoot people all day.
That are real questions. While I hate HX, I can't agree that the infantry are the only ones who are carrying the team. It's not all about them. Archers and Cav are part of the game as well, as any mounted range is.
Besides, from my point of view HX or HA are not even supposed to carry a team. They are support classes.
While they are part of the game, their gameplay is everything but as unique as the melee-part. Why would you start playing Warband? Surely not for the pew pew but for swinging mighty swords... The 4 axes attacking and blocking is the unique part. Not aiming with a crosshair - and to get the cliché in: go and play CoD if you wanna shoot people all day.
Just did a test with Latvian on eu3,
Fully Loomed HA took 15 shots to kill him
Non-Loomed HX took 7 shots
I wouldn't mind the HX having more damage than the HA but that's just absurd
Just saids it all
I understand HX/HA is annoying class, especially for 2h/pole. But you guys are simply overacting.
From my experience, with my equipment (Light Xbow +3, Steel Bolts +3), I need 2-3 bolts to kill lightly armored horses like Arabian Warhorse (if I hit it of course - this horse is so unpredictable, it's not easy to hit it in first place). Medium armored horses like Destrier dies from 4-5 bolts. It's better to leave heavily armored horses alone, since I would waste too many bolts trying to take them down. I'm not counting head hits here, but they of course can help you to kill enemy horse much faster.
Nerf them, nerf them hard. Also nerf arbalesters, even though I haven't tried the class yet.
Also nerf arbalesters, even though I haven't tried the class yet.
If you're serious, you're a cancer of the game balance forum. Suggesting to nerf any class, at all, without having played it for a significant period before reaching that conclusion makes your opinions obsolete. At least that's my view on things. You won't have a good overview if you haven't played the class you're suggesting to re-balance.
If you're serious, you're a cancer of the game balance forum. Suggesting to nerf any class, at all, without having played it for a significant period before reaching that conclusion makes your opinions obsolete. At least that's my view on things. You won't have a good overview if you haven't played the class you're suggesting to re-balance.
- guys with horse archer avatars & horse archers in their signatures suggesting to buff HA
Horse ranged might be hard to play, but what's relevant from the perspective of someone trying to fight them is that they are almost impossible to play against if you have the "wrong" build/equipment.
As infantry, the best you can do if up against HA/HX is dodge like a maniac, pray you don't get hit, scramble for cover and wait for the flags (which means going through the same thing yet again). It requires no skill, is frustrating, tiresome and a bore for me and everyone spectating.
Horse ranged might be hard to play, but what's relevant from the perspective of someone trying to fight them is that they are almost impossible to play against if you have the "wrong" build/equipment.
As infantry, the best you can do if up against HA/HX is dodge like a maniac, pray you don't get hit, scramble for cover and wait for the flags (which means going through the same thing yet again). It requires no skill, is frustrating, tiresome and a bore for me and everyone spectating.
Horse ranged might be hard to play, but what's relevant from the perspective of someone trying to fight them is that they are almost impossible to play against if you have the "wrong" build/equipment.This is why horseranged should always be weak and underpowered (which they currently are), there is no way for it to not hard counter infantry. And Shine, a 3/36 with a scythe can defeat tincans, it's just hard, hard counters are horrible game mechanics, soft counters are good.
As infantry, the best you can do if up against HA/HX is dodge like a maniac, pray you don't get hit, scramble for cover and wait for the flags (which means going through the same thing yet again). It requires no skill, is frustrating, tiresome and a bore for me and everyone spectating.
This is why horseranged should always be weak and underpowered (which they currently are), there is no way for it to not hard counter infantry. And Shine, a 3/36 with a scythe can defeat tincans, it's just hard, hard counters are horrible game mechanics, soft counters are good.There are plenty of things that happen in battle that don't give ranged cav a hard counter on infantry. Distractions, terrain, hiding infantry, limited supply of arrows, shields, MOTF etc all kill or stymie ranged cav.
Get throwing weapons, get xbow proficiency, get a shield, if you don't want to do that, then protect your own ranged from getting stabbed by lancers mid-round and they'd still be alive to help you with the horse archer/xbow. Or wait behind buildings and pray that you don't get a sudden case of A.D.D. and go trying to run down a horse.
It's a team game, and having many classes with many different weapons and armor is what makes this game so great. If you can't adapt to the conditions on the battlefield, then it's your problem, not the people using their strengths against your weaknesses.
This is a bad argument, because you're basically saying that someone else's build is invalid because your own build can't defeat it. That's like if I would build my character 3/36 with a scythe, and then complaining that tin cans should be nerfed because all my swings bounce off them and they are impossible for me to kill. Ranged cav is very strong against a lot of classes... but there are also plenty of classes that are very effective against them.
It's also a bad argument because until cav move slower than infantry on the ground, ranged cavalry will always be nearly impossible to engage in melee... as they should be since that's what they were designed to do. No amount of nerfs to damage & accuracy will ever "fix" the "problem" of infantry being disadvantaged against ranged cav.
Look dezi if you don't want to adapt (protecting your own ranged, or waiting for flags), and you don't want to make a build that can deal with them (shield for defensive protection, some sort of ranged like throwing for offensive stopping power), then I don't think the next logical conclusion should be that you remove them from the game. Your weakness is that you have to be right next to someone to hurt them, if someone is ranged, they can hit you before you can hit them. If they are faster than you (riding a horse) then you have no ability to catch them.
That is your build you choose to make, you should have realized what your strengths and weaknesses were before making the character. Or suck it up like an adult and play the video game.
Okay, let's do this bullet point style then:
Protecting your own ranged: What if there is no ranged to protect? Especially on smaller servers (which is what I play on mostly since my comp can't handle EU1 clusterfucks at all) this is a frequent occurrence.
Waiting for flags: I explained in my first post why I think this is a shitty scenario, why it's boring both for me and for everyone else who has to wait and why it's not fun or requires any skill at all from my part. Sure I might get lucky, survive all the bolts/arrows and bumps and get the flag but it's going to take a long time and is not fun at all for me since i get to do nothing about it.
Waiting for flags is a valid tactic to win, and I don't feel waiting a minute or two for a round to end is a big deal.
Shield: Doesn't help me fight the HA/HX in any way. Just makes the process of killing me harder. I played a hoplite up until recently precisely because I wanted to be able to fend of
Shield helps protect you from being a victim to ranged, it's a defensive measure, not a way to kill them (this is obvious, you're just reiterating what I said)
Throwing: That's ranged. I don't think you should be forced to get ranged to be able to fight against everyone in the game.
You don't get throwing to be able to fight everyone else in the game, you get ranged to hit people from a distance, who you otherwise wouldn't have been able to engage. You chose to be pure melee (is my guess) so that you could either get more IF, or more WPF in your 2h (assuming) proficiency. Instead of giving up some IF and/or 2h WPF to be able to get PT and throwing WPF, you choose to be a better melee person. That was your choice, but it gives you greater weaknesses to ranged or people who are faster/more mobile than you.
Yes, I am pretty much a melee purist. I played the melee server more than the regular ones when it was up. And as melee infantry everyone can fight me, but I have hard counters in HA/HX. The only reason I can have a good time playing as infantry is because there are others choosing not to play as HA/HX (or running ranged to an extent, but that's much better now).
Yes, you have a very limited set of strengths and weaknesses. You can get hit by people from a distance and have no ability to hit them back. The same is true when ground archers are shooting at you from across the map. I fail to see how this is an argument for nerfing someone who is your natural counter.
Up until recently I played as a hoplite in attempt to fend of ranged and cavalry. Problem was "fighting" enemies such as HA/HX was just a huge waste of time and I see a lot more melee action now just by bumrushing for the melee with super-light armor and weapon.
as said, I can understand it being fun and challenging to play as HA/HX, even though it's not at all to my taste. What I'm saying is that there is not under any circumstances fun to fight against them when not being able to fight back or even run away effectively.
That's just, like, your opinion man. You know what I do with horse xbows/archers? I avoid them as a lancer cavalry, and when I'm on my footman (2h/xbow) I shoot at their horses. I'm pretty effective at taking down cavalry, as are most archers and xbows (and throwers when horses get too close). I don't feel that horse ranged classes are a problem in the game by any stretch of the imagination. Stick closer to your own team, especially ranged classes, and you will be able to enable your teammates to take out the enemy horsemen. Teamwork and tactics are your natural counters to cavalry of any kind.
Every class should be on even footing with every other? Don't play Planetside or any other game with rock/paper/scissors classes (and there are a ton of them). At least here, when your sword hits an HX/HA, it will obliterate them. Try a game where a class does no damage against another because of RPS mechanics.
HA/HX is the only class in this game that doesn't have a hard counter.
Hoplites haven't got a hard counter.
Isolation. 1D attack isn't very good in a 1v1 situation.
Hoplite is 1h + shield + spear, not just spear + shield. Spear + shield is hard countered by a maul. 1h + shield + throwing neither has a true hard counter.
HA/HX is the only class in this game that doesn't have a hard counter.
Hoplite is 1h + shield + spear, not just spear + shield. Spear + shield is hard countered by a maul. 1h + shield + throwing neither has a true hard counter.Though when a hoplite is last alive against 10 enemies, the round won't take 2 minutes to end. Every infantry has a hard counter in getting ganked.
Errrr I disagree, Throwers one hit me and my horse so I generally avoid them. Also High riding cav builds get me too(Intensify_MB regularly fucks me with his 2h on his Arabian.) HA damage is laughable though so buff it, besides I would rather see classes get buffs rather than nerfing something until it's not fun.
but with the MotF spawning when there's only horse ranged left on a team made me care a lot less about them, since they couldn't really annoy me that much anymore.This doesn't happen.
Hard counter may have been the wrong word. Let me rephrase:
Every class can beat every class, even hoplite or sword and board with throwing. The same cannot be said about hx.
Disclamer: I don't necessarily agree that hx should be nerfed.
Though when a hoplite is last alive against 10 enemies, the round won't take 2 minutes to end. Every infantry has a hard counter in getting ganked.
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This has no bearing on balance. The round lasting 2 more mins because an HX refuses to die is nothing to do with how good or bad they are. And with flags it's a pointless argument. 2 mins is nothing and the infantry inevitably always wins the flags.My problem is not that the horse ranged eventually loses, my problem is that it takes two minutes because he is untouchable. The only points I have made about balance is that HX is way stronger than HA, apart from that I am arguing that horse ranged just is annoying to everyone else because they delay. 2 minutes is nothing? An entire round of battle on average only takes like 3 and a half minutes. It is 2 minutes I and 100 people with me usually spend watching fuck all happen with zero effect on the outcome of the round.
My problem is not that the horse ranged eventually loses, my problem is that it takes two minutes because he is untouchable. The only points I have made about balance is that HX is way stronger than HA, apart from that I am arguing that horse ranged just is annoying to everyone else because they delay. 2 minutes is nothing? An entire round of battle on average only takes like 3 and a half minutes. It is 2 minutes I and 100 people with me usually spend watching fuck all happen with zero effect on the outcome of the round.
I bet that half the cries for HX are caused by people having to watch them waste loads of time because there is always a few last alive, especially since they play with a dozen at the same time. It is simply boring for everyone.
Whenever that happens I whine that all the rambo's, heroes and mindless zergs were too impatient or ignorant to help keep their own ranged classes alive. Or I whine about them trying to chase down the horse archer/xbow.
I bet that half the cries for HX are caused by people having to watch them waste loads of time because there is always a few last alive, especially since they play with a dozen at the same time. It is simply boring for everyone.
I whine that
Or I whine about
Also I whine when I
I assume it's more like 99% :wink: HX is hardly OP, but it's so bloody annoying to watch them fucking around on the battlefield at the end of each round. Let them have only 1 pack of bolts, so that they will run out of ammo before end of round and have to go in melee :wink:
I think that's what they tried to do when they made light xbow 2 slots, but the HX doesn't seem to do it. The ones who prefers a good melee weapon uses the hunting crossbow, but most HXs uses a 0 slot sword and engage less in melee than before. I used a nomad sabre pre-patch, loomed it up to +3 a few days before they made light xbow 2 slots. Completely ruined my US Cavalry look (horse, blue gambeson, rifle/light xbow and SABRE). Now I have to use a short falchion instead of my nomad sabre, which was never op. That made me sad :(YOU ARE US_Cavalry_Walker?! :shock:
YOU ARE US_Cavalry_Walker?! :shock:visitors can't see pics , please register or login
I assume it's more like 99% :wink: HX is hardly OPWell, if a reckless and impatient fuck like me, who has probably not even played 50 hours of ranged due to it boring him and being honestly very bad at it, manages to get a k/d of 1.8 in the two hours that he tried it with only the crossbow loomed, it is quite a strong class as well. And that is with me repeatedly charging pikemen in the first minute of the round and similar bad decision making. With some more practice, patience, looms and high level I think even I can be really deadly with it. The accuracy is just ridiculously good.
I assume it's more like 99% :wink: HX is hardly OP, but it's so bloody annoying to watch them fucking around on the battlefield at the end of each round. Let them have only 1 pack of bolts, so that they will run out of ammo before end of round and have to go in melee :wink:
Well, if a reckless and impatient fuck like me (...) manages to get a k/d of 1.8 in the two hours that he tried it with only the crossbow loomed, it is quite a strong class as well.HA/HX and infantry are completely different classes, you can't compare them by KDR. As HA/HX, if you don't make any mistake and enemy archers/crossbowmans won't hit you by surprise, you just won't die. You will die mainly when your team loses the battle, but if enemy win by flags, you will still survive. So yes, you can do briliant KDR as HA/HX, because you can stay away from threats (even if you don't kill much, if you die rarely, you can make great KDR).
(...) HX is so more over powered than HA, i have to concentrate 10x harder to do well with HA while with HX with the crosshair being so small it is a very easy class.HX don't have such big damage advantage over HA. I need 3 arrows to kill light armored target with my HA, same time I need 2 bolts to kill light armored target as HX. HX damage is bigger, but that's how it should be. HA got much higher shooting speed and much more ammo, while HX has damage.
I think the HX either needs a higher strength requirement, PD or damage nerf as currently HX's almost 1 shot me in my +3 armour and gloves, whereas it takes 3-5 arrows to kill an HX
i find that HA is a very balanced class at the moment, i am able to post good scores, but what gets me is sometimes i can be 3 hitting tincans but other times it takes me 15 arrows or more to kill him. But in my opinion of playing the two classes. HX is so more over powered than HA, i have to concentrate 10x harder to do well with HA while with HX with the crosshair being so small it is a very easy class.I find that HT is very balanced class at the moment, i am able to post good scores, but what gets me is sometimes i can be 1 hitting tincans but other times it takes me 3 throwing lances or more to kill him. But in my opinion of playing the two classes. HA is so more over powered than HT, i have to concentrate 10x harder to do well with HT while with HA with the crosshair being so small it is a very easy class.
I think the HX either needs a higher strength requirement, PD or damage nerf as currently HX's almost 1 shot me in my +3 armour and gloves, whereas it takes 3-5 arrows to kill an HX
I truly do, but with the MotF spawning when there's only horse ranged left on a team made me care a lot less about them, since they couldn't really annoy me that much anymore.
But HX deals just too much damage, considering it's own risk/cost
I believe (anyone can confirm?) they added a speed bonus based on your horse's movement for ranged on horseback. Removing it from HX, and keeping it for HA/HT without touching anything else could possibly even it a bit more out.No please no, unless of course it was only positively removed, allowing HX to ride fullspeed in the other direction while still dealing full damage wouldn't exactly be what I'd consider a nerf.
I find that HT is very balanced class at the moment, i am able to post good scores, but what gets me is sometimes i can be 1 hitting tincans but other times it takes me 3 throwing lances or more to kill him. But in my opinion of playing the two classes. HA is so more over powered than HT, i have to concentrate 10x harder to do well with HT while with HA with the crosshair being so small it is a very easy class.
Upkeep is killing me with mounted throwing. Every round, one stack of javelins break, and it seems more difficult to upkeep (with javelins) then a HX.While you are waiting, try the franciscas as HT. They are way cheaper and get much better speed bonus than the javelins.
While you are waiting, try the franciscas as HT. They are way cheaper and get much better speed bonus than the javelins.
But... style!Exactly! You get to use badass axes over lameass spears!
This is a game played purely for fun and spectating while a hx rides round and round for 3 mins at the end of each round is dire for 95% of people on server. Not for balance, realism or anything else but purely to reduce total bloody tedium get rid of them.
The suggestion is as old as Moses, but it would actually require some time of the developers who are currently occupied with M:BG. Mod is ded. :P