I'd give it a week to test them before making any harsh decisions.
8 axes are still 8 kills
4 stacks is still 8 axes, and 8 axes are still 8 kills
No.
well tydeus we disagree about HTA, but to answer your question about the relation between all the axes, I can tell you that presently the francisca is overall best but only when you consider that due to its very low weight it hardly slows your run speed at all.
throwing axes don't do enough damage more than franciscas to be worth the lesser ammo and higher weight.
heavy throwing axes have good damage now compared to the spears line, but having only two ammo per stack is a total killer, spoils it.
Take a great Bardiche, it has the same cut damage. Now I'm not sure how big the % damage increase is for the PT and PS. But even with 10 PS you CANNOT 1hit kill players every times. Not even 50% of the time. + shields will still take 2-5 axes to break.
So when throwing axes are used in melee mode, do they keep their throwing damage or are there a new set of values?
I believe they have a new set of values. Otherwise throwing lances would be op in melee what with their 60p.
This is correct. Last time I checked, Heavy Throwing Axes had 30 cut in melee mode.
32, 36 when loomed to +3. I enjoy the melee mode of HTA very much, to the point where I rely on it in every fight against another shielder.
I imagine that the only change will be people still using the heavy throwing axes while being miserable, or respeccing from throwing.
The reasoning for the change seems pretty clear, as Sandy mentions: most throwers, and by far most axe throwers were using Heavy Axes over Francisca/Throwing Axes. They did this because, well, if you're min-maxing, the choice was pretty clear; they only had four requirement, they do absurd damage, and you could roll with 12 of them. Now, the Heavy Throwing Axe is in a place where it's no longer supposed to be the "main" item and is better used as an accompaniment to 1h/shield or other, larger stacked throwing items. They aren't by any means out of the game, but are at least competitive with the regular Throwing Axes now instead of leagues ahead of them (Franciscas could still use a bit of abuff).
It's obvious that the intent was to get more axe diversity, but the end result will be less diversity, since everyone will just use Jarids now.
Well, Jarid is the only option for anyone who wants to play a viable Thrower, all the other choices are just gimmick builds. Archers and xbow are so much more effective then throwers.
Yep, it gets even more ridiculus in strat, having 4 stack of 62 gold axes for 8 ammo.
To fix that they would need to add an ammo pack, like the first slot is the throwing weapon you'll use and you fill the other 3 slot with "Ammo Bag" that add's up and cost less. To mimic arrows and bolts.
Yep, it gets even more ridiculus in strat, having 4 stack of 62 gold axes for 8 ammo.
To fix that they would need to add an ammo pack, like the first slot is the throwing weapon you'll use and you fill the other 3 slot with "Ammo Bag" that add's up and cost less. To mimic arrows and bolts.
Good thinking. Lets just hope some DEVS are reading this.
People selling their HTA are being over dramatic. Just needs a 5 cut damage boost to make it more in line with Jarids and Throwing lances and it's fine.
on paper something like war dart looks very efficient but you're missing the calculation of the opportunity cost that if you're gonna sit around throwing 12 weapons each round you're taking too much time out of melee (when 90% of your char point/skill distribution is melee dedicated), basically wasting your time.
4 ammo is honestly enough for a hybrid, when I carry 6 jarids I often have extra at end. I only usually use them up if there's a ton of skilled horsemen who need to be dropped at beginning, or Im blackbarred and withdraw from melee to throw instead. so 4 HTA is fine quantity, just need more of a damage boost cuz they are underpowered compared to the curve from jarid to lance.
Actually, almost nobody uses HTA anymore which is a pity. The nerf made HTA useless compared to jarid and throwing spear, cause less ammo and cut instead of pierce.
Bring me 3 ammo 44 cut HTA back!
Yeah, if I was a thrower/1h hybrid I'd pick one stack of heavy throwing axes for melee and 2 jarids to throw (with a shield). 1 extra shot could be worth it in close range.
Nevertheless, heavy throwing axes' accuracy is nowhere near the crappy accuracy of throwing spears. They are still usable in close range I think.
Actually coming to think of it, throwing weapons do not really have enough variety. Axes are indeed outclassed by jarids, throwing lances do not worth their low ammunition, throwing spears are so unreliable in accuracy that the extra ammo doesn't really bring anything, javelins are outclassed by jarids again. The only reliable options seem like jarids as top tier. I know darts and war darts can be useful too, but many players do not like them as it seems.
Unbelievable that a thrower defends a throwing axe nerf. I would be stupid if i prefered 8 ammo cut damage axes which have much slower missile speed instead of using 16 ammo pierce damage throwing spears which fly faster. Do you want to know what's OP? 2h. And I have no problem with it, but when they make throwing axes useless, I have.Pro tip: Flying slower isn't a disadvantage, if your projectile is flying downwards you'll get a way higher speed bonus with axes than spears...
Personally, I'm fine with fewer people using the HTA, it was already used by far too many people based upon the December usage statistics. The more important question that I'm interested in, is how does the HTA currently compare to the normal throwing axe, and the normal throwing axe compared to the Francisca.
So instead of giving an incentive to use some other throwing weapons, you choose to nerf the popular one? Nerfing is just sign of poor game design.
Why did heavy bastard & longsword get buffs? By your logic, they were already heavily used, why didnt they get nerfed too?
You know why noone uses franciscas or regular throwing axes? Because they fucking blow stat wise, and the spear type ones like jav/spears also suck pretty bad too...which is why noone ever used them either.
You know why noone uses franciscas or regular throwing axes? Because they fucking blow stat wise, and the spear type ones like jav/spears also suck pretty bad too...which is why noone ever used them either.
Throwing axes have a 2nd weaponmode thats much more effective than any other in the game.
prenerf they were overpowered - and im saying that as a thrower using them.
I posted this a few months ago, but I'll repost because it's relevant:
-snip-
And any other ranged nerf we can think of.Like that time he suggested a buff to unloomed archery, and it went through.
I would be stupid if i prefered 8 ammo cut damage axes which have much slower missile speed instead of using 16 ammo pierce damage throwing spears which fly faster.Having a slow projectile is an advantage, if you are trying to increase your damage via speed bonus.
Are those maximum values, or do they have speed bonuses added to them?
I'm not getting anywhere near the same numbers.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag5R9vD8esLKdEtZczR1YjdpQlkxOTB4LTBkMjJpckE#gid=7
new idea: give the axe line better melee speeds and lower weights, and leave the ammo count as it is, and give them a higher damage bonus against shields if possible; then give throwing lances a chance to crushthru tied to PT-over-requirement to round out the jarids-hta-lance balance.
would prefer more tweaks to hybrid-vs-pure balance too but i'd still prefer to see axes and lances get buffed against jarids than for jarids to get nerfed
I'm not sure how the damage crunch would come out, I don't think that puts HTAs close to jarids against 50+ armor, but I'm ok with that. Jarids should be tin can openers. Throwing axes should be for lower armored targets.
:arrow: Make HTA 3 ammo again.That would make Throwing Axes useless again. So unless we give TA and Franciscas +1 ammo too, it wouldn't "fix" anything.
People juste want seem balance between HTA and jarids.
It's two different way of aiming as thrower and people choose Fransisca/ TA /HTA or jarids/javelins depending of their feeling. But now HTA are weaker than jarids they have to deal with jarids, and it's not fun for them.