Why nerf Heavy Throwing Axes? Tweak the stat change or go back to 3 ammo.

[Bash Brisecul]

I have the same opinion as Phew, Malaclypse, Turboflex

The problem is the ammo as a dedicated thrower. Nerfing the ammo by 33% is 33% less dmg you make per round unless you scavenge shit. If you went heavy 9-10 PT to get the most dmg of your ammo you can't usualy run from folks much. I mean them archers and Xbowers can get 30-45 arrows and 24-30 bolts + a 0 slot melee weapon.

Maybe if you would get more ammo like if you fill all your slot with throwing weapon, you get an extra 25%, that way if you go full HTA you would get 10 Hv Axes, or 5 lance.  Or if there would be something like an Ammo Pack, 3 Slot that gives you +400% ammo (that way we could enjoy those 0 slot weapon). Otherwise the only way to be successful as a thrower is to go Jarid, or Hybrid with some PS.

I'll still enjoy myself as a thrower whatever happens, and I would enjoy it even more if they bring back the thrown axes sticking on bodies they hit.

[Shaksie]

I think it was probably just to mix things up so people used different throwing weapons. I for one have always felt that jarids are better, so I never considered heavy throwing axes to be op. This is way too far though, 2 ammo is too low for pretty much anything, let alone something that does 47c.

[Count_Adhamar]

Yeah, with 4 axes you'll be lucky if you kill 2 people. That's not worth the 632g you have to pay as upkeep for 4 axes. I know chadz intention was to mix things up a bit but you've pretty much done the opposite, making the spear line more desirable and efficient. People with heavy throwing axes are now getting rid of them and switching over. Since there's no real benefit the HTA provides besides the secondary mode. Losing 33% ammo for a 3 cut damage increase is quite a large nerf. The damage has to be significantly increased or the ammo reverted. Personally I don't see what the problem was before this change. In aus there was already a large diversity with those who used throwing weapons. Jarids were still superior before this nerf, now they have no competition from the axe line.

[Berserkadin]

Well, Jarid is the only option for anyone who wants to play a viable Thrower, all the other choices are just gimmick builds. Archers and xbow are so much more effective then throwers.

[Bash Brisecul]

Yep, it gets even more ridiculus in strat, having 4 stack of 62 gold axes for 8 ammo.

To fix that they would need to add an ammo pack, like the first slot is the throwing weapon you'll use and you fill the other 3 slot with "Ammo Bag" that add's up and cost less. To mimic arrows and bolts.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Well, Jarid is the only option for anyone who wants to play a viable Thrower, all the other choices are just gimmick builds. Archers and xbow are so much more effective then throwers.

Not quite true. Throwing daggers and war darts are damn fine weapons. When masterwork'd, I've seen people use nothing but 4 stacks of the daggers and top the NA servers.

(click to show/hide)

Yeah, it was palatro, but still.

Yep, it gets even more ridiculus in strat, having 4 stack of 62 gold axes for 8 ammo.

To fix that they would need to add an ammo pack, like the first slot is the throwing weapon you'll use and you fill the other 3 slot with "Ammo Bag" that add's up and cost less. To mimic arrows and bolts.

I like that idea quite a lot.

[F i n]

Yep, it gets even more ridiculus in strat, having 4 stack of 62 gold axes for 8 ammo.

To fix that they would need to add an ammo pack, like the first slot is the throwing weapon you'll use and you fill the other 3 slot with "Ammo Bag" that add's up and cost less. To mimic arrows and bolts.

Good thinking. Lets just hope some DEVS are reading this.

[GuiKa]

Good thinking. Lets just hope some DEVS are reading this.

You can keep dreaming.

Anyway :

  I personally like this change on heavy throwing axe, don't think +3 damage will is only a 7% damage, it's more a 15-20% because of the armor mechanism on this game. But yeah +3 damage is still not enough, they should add something else like +10 accuracy or +2 missile speed or even some speed rating.

 I'm a thrower hybrid so i was looking for a LOW  weight throwing weapon (4 Kg slow you too much) so HTA are really good for that now (only 2.7 KG).

[Berserkadin]

I hate this change but I still remember times of HAT stacks with 4 ammo, throwing lances with 2 ammo and 11-12pt tincan thrower build. Randomly toss 8 lances in a big crowd and then picking up random throwing ammo, wich there where tons of or grab a melee weapon.

Haters gonna hate.

[OssumPawesome]

I agree with op.  I have mw heavy throwing axes and they feel worthless now.  i checked the marketplace - this item used to be in very high demand and was traded for the best of other masterwork equipment and now there is only one trade request asking for one. I seriously doubt I could trade the mw heavy throwing axes for what I payed for them and the nerf makes me not want to use them.
I just got back on crpg because i liked some of the cool new changes, but after seeing this nerf I think I'm going to take a break for a while again.
=(

[dontgothere]

lots of people sticking up for the devs because of "why" they did it but the whole point is that the "how" is ridiculous and just one more instance of the devs taking crpg on the decline, making changes without a clue how it actually plays out for reelz

there's an obvious trend to fuck up throwing weapons and make them nothing more than a backup weapon for melee builds who don't want to take xbows, it's going to get worse, jarids are next in line no doubt

[Count_Adhamar]

The Heavy Throwing Axe right now is the 3rd most offered heirloom. Look at the marketplace, every one is getting rid of their's because they're basically useless. GG. It's gonna be hard to sell them now. R.I.P Heavy Throwing Axes, you were once decent but now you're nothing. All those who still want to remain throwers are now getting Jarids or Javelins. Further showing proof of the enhanced spear line. Others are switching to melee and horses. Throwing axes are out of the equation. Good job. If the HTA's damage isn't buffed significantly or stats reverted (just revert it, it was fine before) then yeah the devs will probably nerf the Jarids next, since there's no reason to use axes over the spear line. Don't fall in to this back and forth nerfing. Throwing was mixed before, now I'm mainly seeing Jarids and other spears being used. No axes. Jarids have no competition from the HTA's.

[DUKE DICKBUTT]

It's unfortunate that HTA's got hit with a double nerf.  They hit the ammo count pretty badly, as well as removed jump throwing at the same time.  Really hurts when you get double nerfed.  But then again, so did cav.  Horse bumps got nerfed and a new item that keeps cav away came up in the same patch.  The devs know nothing of moderation.

[dontgothere]

phew maybe i'm missing your point but i'm really surprised to hear you of all people taking such a liberal approach to the devs' nerfs, and it seems to me like the kind of statements you're making could encourage the worst trends in the balancing team

agreed: there should be more of a variety in throwing weapons choices, sure. for the longest time there have been only about three or four throwing weapons that are really viable for PT-heavy builds and it would be awesome if there were more reasons to pick different kinds.
but trying to get variety through back-and-forth nerfing is a horrible method, especially for throwing which is already weak. instead of enforcing variety by worsening the best choices, they should just diversify the specialities of the different kinds of weapons.
for example, even though artie's notorious for his mw jarids, recently i spent a lot of $ on loompoints so i could get mw 4-point shurikens, because they have the fastest projectile speed and good attack speed; they chew up enemy archers who i dont want to waste jarids on. that's the way the devs should be thinking too.

my suggestions:

make the axes line all about shield busting, in both thrown mode and melee. increase each axe's damage by at least three cut. take franciscas back to 3 ammo per stack, but give them significantly higher speed and accuracy than throwing axes and heavy throwing axes. in compensation make them less useful than the other two in melee, but nevertheless the entire axes line should be the default throwing type for thrower/melee hybrids, far and away better in that role than the other choices. a mw HTA with enough PT should be able to single-shot a low-end shield. 3-4 of them should do the same to midrange shields, and 6 should be able to whittle down high-end shields used by high shield-skill builds.

make the throwing stars line all about projectile and throwing speed. go all shinobi on that shit. damage is fine where it's at, just wish they glanced just a little less though, way too many times i'll hit someone in midrange armor and the shuriken doesn't stick them...so maybe change from cut to pierce. makes more sense anyway right?

make knives/daggers all about accuracy. with enough wpf and pt they should be almost as accurate as xbows, but obviously with a far lesser range and projectile speed.

make spears/jarids/lances all about tincan popping. very high pierce damage, longer range than the other throwing weapons, but not nearly as fast or as accurate as knives and shurikens, nor even half as useful against shields or in melee as the axes line is. their throwing-side stats are great where they are but i think they should be fairly gimp in melee. they haven't been mentioned yet in this thread but a lot of people like throwing spears better than they like jarids for the extra ammo, so there's already decent diversity there. moreover i see a decent number of javelins about due to their lower PT requirement. i think this tree is pretty well balanced as it stands except lances need either an ammo or a damage buff.

throwing hammers and rocks are trickier. it would be neat if rocks actually had some use beyond novelty; maybe buff the accuracy? as for hammers i think they should be doing more damage. treat them like a blunt version of heavy throwing axes and balance them against those in the same way that melee blunt is balanced against melee cut.

obviously smoke bombs should instagib

[Turboflex]

People selling their HTA are being over dramatic. Just needs a 5 cut damage boost to make it more in line with Jarids and Throwing lances and it's fine.