cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Everkistus on January 17, 2013, 09:25:08 am

Title: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Everkistus on January 17, 2013, 09:25:08 am
Alright, you probably already know the deal. Long Spear user against you. You come close, so he kicks you and stabs you in the face, you die. WTF? You try to hit, he points his spear on the sky, stabs and turns it down so it comes down like the wrath of god. You die again.

This is quite silly imo. Long Spear is a support weapon, something that you aren't supposed to use 1-on-1. So I propose a vertical angle limitation for long spear, not unlike one did to lancers but a different one. This would mean that the long spear users could still point their spear up enough to stab jumping cav or stab in the head if they can, but limits the opportunities or pointing the spear directly up.

I propose that the max angle you could point the long spear would be 45 angles from ground. Discuss.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: [ptx] on January 17, 2013, 09:50:29 am
Alright, you probably already know the deal. Long Spear user against you. You come close, so he kicks you and stabs you in the face, you die. WTF? You try to hit, he points his spear on the sky, stabs and turns it down so it comes down like the wrath of god. You die again.
Agreed. Long spear shouldn't be able to stab you lethally, that is beyond ridiculous. I propose the inappropriately sharp end of it be replaced with a soft rubber ball.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on January 17, 2013, 09:51:38 am
Agreed. Long spear shouldn't be able to stab you lethally, that is beyond ridiculous. I propose the inappropriately sharp end of it be replaced with a soft rubber ball.

(click to show/hide)

You obviously understood the topic.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Moncho on January 17, 2013, 09:52:51 am
If this is done, please give them a way to prevent eternal downblocking, otherwise it might break them
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: [ptx] on January 17, 2013, 10:02:57 am
You obviously understood the topic.
You obviously didn't.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Paul on January 17, 2013, 10:04:08 am
I thought kicking is horribly underpowered now.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Molly on January 17, 2013, 10:05:19 am
I thought kicking is horribly underpowered now.
You obviously understood the topic too.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Teeth on January 17, 2013, 10:06:50 am
It is about removing the already near non-existent 1v1 ability of long spears.
In my experience near non-existent is an understatement.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Molly on January 17, 2013, 10:10:19 am
I actually don`t even understand why you expect to be able to 1v1 with a longspear?

News Flash: It is a freaking LONGspear.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Teeth on January 17, 2013, 10:12:37 am
I actually don`t even understand why you expect to be able to 1v1 with a longspear?

News Flash: It is a freaking LONGspear.
You obviously understood the topic too.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Molly on January 17, 2013, 10:20:24 am
It`s about the stupidity that you're able to face stab with a 245 weapon at facehugging distance. You agree, oh mighty know-it-all Teeth?
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Falka on January 17, 2013, 10:22:54 am
Am I the only one who didn't understand the topic?   :|
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Moncho on January 17, 2013, 10:25:22 am
And holding a 2h sword at the end of a swing does not unbalance you, you can hit full damage overheads when past to the feet of your target, and swings go right through shields, and ranged get glue on their feet, and horses love going for walls and will charge a stick that means death without warning...
Yes, this game is so realistic...

Am I the only one who didn't understand the topic?   :|
Another version of QQ, I just got killed by one, please nerf, this is lame.
He wants that to prevent the top-bottom long spear with full damage, their vertical movement is restricted. Which would not really work much as you do not need more than 45 degrees anyway to abuse it well enough...
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Everkistus on January 17, 2013, 10:26:38 am
For the reference: my main is a long spear user.

Another version of QQ, I just got killed by one, please nerf, this is lame.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: [ptx] on January 17, 2013, 10:28:20 am
I propose that Long spear/pike/<insert any other class that actually takes a bit of effort to kill anything outside of being "support"> users die of heart attack whenever someone gets within a range of 120 units.
Anything else is just stupid, "quite silly" and simply "not supposed to happen".
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Molly on January 17, 2013, 10:29:32 am
I propose that Long spear/pike/<insert any other class that actually takes a bit of effort to kill anything outside of being "support"> users die of heart attack whenever someone gets within a range of 120 units.
Anything else is just stupid, "quite silly" and simply "not supposed to happen".
I support this notion.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Malaclypse on January 17, 2013, 10:32:21 am
I feel like this would get rid of the ability to use a Pike/Long Spear to stab up at archers or other folks who are camped out atop ruin walls and other such hard to reach places, and would lament that loss.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Everkistus on January 17, 2013, 10:37:06 am
I feel like this would get rid of the ability to use a Pike/Long Spear to stab up at archers or other folks who are camped out atop ruin walls and other such hard to reach places, and would lament that loss.
I hadn't thought of that to be honest. Good point.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Teeth on January 17, 2013, 11:01:16 am
Also, with the unusually hilly terrain we commonly find in Calradia there might be instances where you are not able to fight at all, while your opponents are.

A vertical turn rate nerf would probably fix it, but please don't. How many people can 1 vs 1 with a longspear somewhat effectively? I bet those people also do okay with a wooden stick.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 17, 2013, 11:04:45 am
For the reference: my main is a long spear user.
less than 7 days? ^^
the problem about the long spear is not that its overpowered in closecombat (ok, it is), but that it is underpowered in range. how easy is it to charge a spearwall? supereasy: downlblock. if this is removed and multiple stabs (can count for all weapons, 2h too) have an increasing difficultly to being blocked, ok remove the close-combat ability of the long spear. but the problem is that long spear users have no other possibility. We cant even hold our spear in front of us so you walk into it when you come to close, but a little animation abuse is too much?

Also, with the unusually hilly terrain we commonly find in Calradia there might be instances where you are not able to fight at all, while your opponents are.
A vertical turn rate nerf would probably fix it, but please don't. How many people can 1 vs 1 with a longspear somewhat effectively? I bet those people also do okay with a wooden stick.
this
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Falka on January 17, 2013, 11:58:47 am
how easy is it to charge a spearwall? supereasy: downlblock.
Bullshit.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 17, 2013, 12:04:03 pm
Bullshit.
yes, the spearwall has to break apart and surround you indeed
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Vibe on January 17, 2013, 12:23:30 pm
I think removing ranged would solve this problem
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Leshma on January 17, 2013, 12:47:36 pm
Remove jumping with long weapons. That will fix half of the issue.

Those long spear (ab)users who kick ass without jumping around like bunnies on crack deserve to kick ass imho.

Actually, best way to fix it is to fix Warband engine which doesn't work very well with pikes but, that's not possible atm.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Gurnisson on January 17, 2013, 12:56:20 pm
Yes, let everyone go support with a GGS and that ridiculously long lolstab instead. Seriously, why would anyone use a long spear over a GGS which is far superior in everything bar some length if you're supposed to be helpless 1v1 with a long spear, while the greatswords are possibly the best 1v1 weapons? There's a reason the long awlpike and bamboo spear is not used that much dedicated. Not that good for 1v1 after the turn nerf, and it's barely (if any) longer than the greatsword stabs, and the greatswords have a lot more possibilities...
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on January 17, 2013, 12:57:54 pm
Yes, let everyone go support with a GGS and that ridiculously long lolstab instead. Seriously, why would anyone use a long spear over a GGS which is far superior in everything bar some length if you're supposed to be helpless 1v1 with a long spear, while the greatswords are possibly the best 1v1 weapons? There's a reason the long awlpike and bamboo spear is not used that much dedicated. Not that good for 1v1 after the turn nerf, and it's barely (if any) longer than the greatsword stabs, and the greatswords have a lot more possibilities...

 :rolleyes: Gotta love the 2hers OP lolstab.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Kafein on January 17, 2013, 12:58:48 pm
I have 1 pole wpf and using a stock long spear I have often been more successful than with my MW leet spammitar. There are extremely few 2D polearms in siege though, the most common being the awlpike I would guess but not by much.

By comparison, 4D poles such as poleaxes and glaives and LWA are very common, which is retarded because you would expect the siege environment to make long sideswingable weapon clumsy with all the walls. That's before you realise 2h and poles aren't really affected by walls or any kind of obstacle in a very sensible way.

Also this :

Yes, let everyone go support with a GGS and that ridiculously long lolstab instead. Seriously, why would anyone use a long spear over a GGS which is far superior in everything bar some length if you're supposed to be helpless 1v1 with a long spear, while the greatswords are possibly the best 1v1 weapons? There's a reason the long awlpike and bamboo spear is not used that much dedicated. Not that good for 1v1 after the turn nerf, and it's barely (if any) longer than the greatsword stabs, and the greatswords have a lot more possibilities...

I believe most of the rage about pikes and such comes from the fact that the GS heros are (finally) confronted with something they just can cheapkill abusing their own range.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Piok on January 17, 2013, 01:20:27 pm
Longspear is glitching weapon and I don't like glithers.
They belong to same category as xbow shotguners, throwing facehugers and of course notorious lolstabbers or x-ray couchers.
I will rather decrease LS damage a lot and buff speed not so much.
Still will be very potent weapon for horse rearing and lethal for low armor build 8-)
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 17, 2013, 01:27:40 pm
Longspear is glitching weapon and I don't like glithers.
They belong to same category as xbow shotguners, throwing facehugers and of course notorious lolstabbers or x-ray couchers.
I will rather decrease LS damage a lot and buff speed not so much.
Still will be very potent weapon for horse rearing and lethal for low armor build 8-)

what?
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: XyNox on January 17, 2013, 01:28:06 pm
Whats up with the Pike/LS hate ? Yes, 360 pike-jump-death happened to me as well but that is only due to me not expecting a hit and therefore a clear player mistake, not a game flaw. How can you justify to nerf them, they have one attackdirection and turn-stabbing is definitly not instant. If you lose 1 v 1 vs a pike or LS, you deserve it IMO, although it is not "realistic", but then again, what is in this game ?

I cant recall any situation where I had to consider them OP, appart of being used as a support weapon, but then again thats their purpose, isnt it ?
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Strudog on January 17, 2013, 01:29:25 pm
QQ all, l2b, seriously down block isn't hard. All you guys think is that oh look a longspear, easy kill. But oh wait he killed me by kicking and stabbing. Wait that must be OP, my amazing Great sword should win on every situation, this is surely not fair. QQ must nerf the longspear its unfair he has one attack direction.

Now to the serious part:

Learn to block.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Panos on January 17, 2013, 01:32:22 pm
Yes, let everyone go support with a GGS and that ridiculously long lolstab instead. Seriously, why would anyone use a long spear over a GGS which is far superior in everything bar some length if you're supposed to be helpless 1v1 with a long spear, while the greatswords are possibly the best 1v1 weapons? There's a reason the long awlpike and bamboo spear is not used that much dedicated. Not that good for 1v1 after the turn nerf, and it's barely (if any) longer than the greatsword stabs, and the greatswords have a lot more possibilities...

HOLD THRUST-BACKPEDAL-JUMP-ABUZEHUGTHRUST.

repeat.


Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 17, 2013, 01:34:36 pm
you see guys, i started here as somebody who expected autoblock on multiplayer servers. i couldnt block for shit and tried cavalry and multiple other classes. as cavalry player i was extremely bad and when dismounted i only had a short spear to defend myself. It was extremely hard but in the end i could block some hits. At some point I couldnt take it anymore and went back to native multiplayer, i found myself a god there. it was super easy. I played various builds and got to know the long awlpike, i decided to make a skip the fun in crpg. It was not the same, it was way harder but i tried and i kept trying.
I looked at other players and observed their playstyle, i didnt observe friendly pikemen, but i looked at the enemy and tried to find weak spots in his defence, now im atleast an average long awlpiker, but im still learning all the time. at some point i also bought the long spear and tried it, again i had to adapt and find different weak spots in the enemies defence. I make a jump from time to time, but im not an excessive long spear frog. i even have had compliments for my stuck-to-the-ground playstyle in-game.
Now i recently bought a mw pike too and im still trying to find the right playstyle with it, but it will come soon and i will be able to tell that i can play 3 different playstyles, as those 3 pikes are totally different from eachother.

People are always bitching about some things pikers HAVE to do in order to be able to play their class, those are things like curve stabbing and jumping. There is alot of things that are just totally unrealistic and stupid about pikes that fuck up the playability of this class. one of these things is the fact that only stabbing works as an attack (you can just downblock and walk into a piker). People always think pikers are an easy target, but they are wrong. when i fight somebody, it is because i think i can win it from him or because i have to. when 3 people attack a piker and they are too stupid to adapt to the situation that they are facing a piker that knows what is behind his back, they shouldnt start crying when they all die.

As piker, one of the things that gives you the most kills is the fact that people try to hit you in the back with their block all open and their attack ready. you just have to turn around and stab. If some people dont want to learn to counter a pike, i think its not time yet to start nerfing. give pikes a buff first before you touch it. at the moment its just too stupid how one downblock can block a thousand (also 2H) stabs. And when i say, you can just break a formation of pikes by downblocking that is true, the fact that people die to it, is because  they are too stupid to charge them alone.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Osiris on January 17, 2013, 01:58:59 pm
              I found the longspear/pike pretty easy against most people in 1 vs 1 for one very simple reason. Its not that im a skilled fighter or even above average, its not even the longspear being op (1 attack direction with avg pierce damage) Its simply because people are stupid. They see a guy with a longspear and think ATTACK! They think all they need to do is block once then spam and they will win, its pure stupidity. Teeth is an awesome piker but if you hold down block and don't run strait into a kick he cant do a lot.

for the record you may need to down block twice before closing the gap omg! (that's why most people die :D)

Edit! Forgot to add that on the battlefield 1 vs 1 is rare. you can fight against 2 people with most weapons but with the pikes you stand no chance against two people who dont act like retards :P
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: oohillac on January 17, 2013, 05:46:56 pm
Everything is fine, just DOWNBLOCK and you completely shut down a longspear.

Don't nerf our shit.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Grumbs on January 17, 2013, 05:58:56 pm
No more melee nerfs, time for melee buffs if anything. Get a shi- I mean hold downblock. There's no way a long spear is double hitting anyone, just don't expect to always be able to double hit against him.

Long spear is not a good 1v1 weapon imo, I would rather have any other weapon in that situation

This 2 hand lolstab campaign is over the top too imo. Its a good attack, but I die to swings way more than to stabs
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: darmaster on January 17, 2013, 06:05:10 pm
It`s about the stupidity that you're able to face stab with a 245 weapon at facehugging distance. You agree, oh mighty know-it-all Teeth?

it's quite stupid that someone with a medieval bow can headshot you intentionally from over 100 mt, isn't it?



yep it's so easy using longspear.. it's just strange i see so few players good with it on 1vs1 (teeth chase and someone else). ffs just downblock if you can't fight. and the kick problem has always been there, it's just you get bersekr against a longspear user, and you don't care about kicks.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Ujin on January 17, 2013, 06:09:23 pm
Reduce it's damage by 10-15 % and it'll be fine. SUPPORT weapon , remember ? When there's 5 of these standing behind the enemy front line poking at you for 40-50% of your hp each, well that's a bit too much.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Molly on January 17, 2013, 06:20:01 pm
it's quite stupid that someone with a medieval bow can headshot you intentionally from over 100 mt, isn't it?



yep it's so easy using longspear.. it's just strange i see so few players good with it on 1vs1 (teeth chase and someone else). ffs just downblock if you can't fight. and the kick problem has always been there, it's just you get bersekr against a longspear user, and you don't care about kicks.
Quoting out of context like a baws.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Falka on January 17, 2013, 06:38:41 pm
you can fight against 2 people with most weapons but with the pikes you stand no chance against two people who dont act like retards :P

Fighting against pikers 1 vs 1 isn't a problem, if I die in such situation that's my fault, noone else. But in battle fighting against anyone with piker behind his back is really annoying.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Rumblood on January 17, 2013, 06:52:10 pm
Hell, even GrannPappy can downblock a spear.

There are plenty of glitchy moves for various weapons in c-RPG. At least make a list and ask for them all to be fixed instead of just singling out one of them.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 17, 2013, 08:14:16 pm
Personally I don't like longspear/pike users.

But logically, I love seeing them on the battlefield because they are great for team play.  Anything that encourages more teamwork is a-okay by me (as long as you stop stabbing my horse and using night time to hide your longspear in plain sight)

And it's not just the pike or long spear, any weapon is affected by this (2h lolstab, being able to bump couch with a lance, etc), it's just part of warband and cRPG and don't expect that to change any time soon.

ENOUGH WITH THE QQ.  Use your suggestions to make strategus better, or to bring up ideas for M:BG. 

Let's see some suggestion threads to help enhance teamwork or communications or individual player's tactics.  Suggesting nerfs is so 2011.

Reduce it's damage by 10-15 % and it'll be fine. SUPPORT weapon , remember ? When there's 5 of these standing behind the enemy front line poking at you for 40-50% of your hp each, well that's a bit too much.

NO, that's actually not enough (being 100% serious).  Would be awesome to start seeing more "formations" fighting for infantry.

Everything is fine, just DOWNBLOCK and you completely shut down a longspear.

Don't nerf our shit.

To paraphrase "don't nerf me bro"
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Kafein on January 17, 2013, 08:50:34 pm
NO, that's actually not enough (being 100% serious).  Would be awesome to start seeing more "formations" fighting for infantry.

It may look awesome but will inevitably play dull.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Osiris on January 17, 2013, 08:52:18 pm
formations dont work so well because they get raped by ranged as you cant use your shield and strike
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Shemaforash on January 17, 2013, 08:52:35 pm
Unless you want to ruin the game further by applying even MORE angle limitations, go ahead.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Kaoklai on January 18, 2013, 06:51:50 am
Long Spear is a support weapon, something that you aren't supposed to use 1-on-1.

Says you.  I thought cRPG was about customization and individuality. 

And what exactly is a "support" weapon anyways.  It's not like pikes aren't meant to kill people also.  This isn't Team Fortress 2 where there are [effective] non-lethal means of support.  If you want to "support" or help your team, you do so by inflicting damage upon, and hopefully killing, people.  In a group of 2h, 1h/shield, and pikes, who is supporting whom?  They are all contributing to victory through direct damage.  Who lands the killing blow is mostly irrelevant.  If "support" here means "should be horrible 1v1," congratulations, they already are given that your opponent isn't retarded. 

This is just another feeble attempt by the LARP/realism lobby to restrict player choice.  Oh, you picked weapon X, then you must have playstyle Y and you shouldn't be able to do Z at all. 

No.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Rumblood on January 18, 2013, 07:54:10 am
And what exactly is a "support" weapon anyways.

Dude that's standard "I don't have an actual good reason for this nerf call" excuse. "X is a support class anyhow!"

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Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Rumblood on January 18, 2013, 05:03:59 pm
He is against a nerf, or I misunderstood something ;)

Follow the thread now! He's sarcastically asking that question of Everkistus who made the "support weapon" statement  :wink:
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: BarBeQ on January 18, 2013, 05:20:05 pm
Does anyone complaining here even played Long Spear for atleast a few weeks ? You have to be extremly carefull in a 1v1.
Most Long Spear (ab)users are very good players who would even be able to get a decent K:D with a stick.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Torwald on January 18, 2013, 05:50:47 pm
Hi i am a bit new, i agree with the topic. It should not be possible to spin as now with pikes.
Instead they should be fast, deal a fair amount of damage and have a over hand trust.
So pikemen can trust 3-4 times before the opponent is face to face. When the opponent is face to face a he should draw secondary weapon. Problem is that it's hard to keep a formation and it is in the, formation it do it's best.   
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Ubereem on January 19, 2013, 12:40:22 am
It's official, EU complaining is ruining the game for NA.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Tzar on January 19, 2013, 01:33:33 pm
It's official, EU complaining is ruining the game for NA.

How come  :?: The Devs dont listen to community input anyways.

Consider this part of the forum as a place people go off to rant while alt tapping ingame.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Joseph Porta on January 19, 2013, 02:18:16 pm
please do so. even without the retarded face stab they are slicky eels getting a hit in and immediatly getting behind their team mates for cover.
1v1 would still be possible but with more jump stabs involved
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Piok on January 19, 2013, 02:52:03 pm
Increase speed nerf damage  8-)
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Haze_The_Hobo on January 19, 2013, 03:12:36 pm
Pike and Longspear are both op weapons at short distance, they are way too lethal in close combat considering how they are supposed to be used.

This is a case where we need realism.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 19, 2013, 03:15:18 pm
indeed, but you cant just nerf close combat and leave the pike like it is now, we just have to abuse this feature (like alot of weapons) to be able to survive. do you know any person that can block a thousand pikes with a single block? do you know somebody that can walk through a spear and stab the guy that holds it? do you know any example of somebody getting wounded because a piker stabbed while the wooden part of it was touching his body? no and all these things are important pike features
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Piok on January 19, 2013, 03:16:51 pm
Pikes should be fast in stabbing but not too strong. 15 pierce for unloomed should be enough and removing unbalanced.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 19, 2013, 03:18:13 pm
Pikes should be fast in stabbing but not too strong. 15 pierce for unloomed should be enough and removing unbalanced.
15 pierce????
man pikes were used to penetrate plate armor, with 15 pierce you cant even stun a archer
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: [ptx] on January 19, 2013, 03:19:17 pm
Pikes should be fast in stabbing but not too strong. 15 pierce for unloomed should be enough and removing unbalanced.
Enough for.. what? Stabbing naked people?
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Haze_The_Hobo on January 19, 2013, 03:37:25 pm
Enough for.. what? Stabbing naked people?

Enough for.. what? Tickling naked women?
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: sF_Guardian on January 19, 2013, 04:24:29 pm
I honestly don`t see any problem with the Long Spear.
Just because you think it should be used the way you want it to be used
it`s not that everyone wants it like that.
And removing kickslash ability just for a specific group of players/ weapon
seems just like bullshit to me.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Teeth on January 19, 2013, 07:10:42 pm
Pike and Longspear are both op weapons at short distance, they are way too lethal in close combat considering how they are supposed to be used.

This is a case where we need realism.
I imagine they were blocked by simply holding your weapon out in front of you horizontally in real life as well? Otherwise one might consider your appliance of realism selective.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Molly on January 19, 2013, 08:34:20 pm
How about slowing down LS a bit?

Always thought that Pike is too slow compared to LS. Or make Pike faster...

Dun care, really. Barely die to either weapon... it's not like they're flooding the server or anything.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Piok on January 19, 2013, 09:06:54 pm
15 pierce????
man pikes were used to penetrate plate armor, with 15 pierce you cant even stun a archer
Plate armor U mad. Maybe renaisance half plate used by infantry but this was not thick or protective as true plate armor. Not to mention that pike come to general use after heavy armor was phased out and last user were armored reiters  and only in very wealthy armies. Pikes more than any other weapon depends on weight of formation to be successful once when cohesion was damaged they were very easy target even for unarmored musketiers.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Osiris on January 19, 2013, 09:36:23 pm
Nothing wrong with pikes. DOWNBLOCK!
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: BlueKnight on January 19, 2013, 10:52:14 pm
I thought kicking is horribly underpowered now.
It is totally different kind of kicking and you know it...

In normal duel with 2 guys using multi-directional weapons you were kicking while enemy was attacking.

With a longspear you make enemy hold his block and you kick right before you attack him with LS so removal of block doesn't change anything because you didn't have to block even before the removal.

You know it but present information so it looks like kicking is still good. Manipulator...

Same with all the 2h weapons that 2h got buffed 2h got buffed...
Correction - 2h axes and 2h fast weapons got buffed but German and Danish got nerfed. Ofc you may say that they got +1 cut and +1 stab but what is the difference between 41 and 42 cut or 28 and 29 stab... There is bigger difference between 93 and 91 speed.

Imho axes are too fast and hit too hard. It is extremely easy to get accidental hit on the enemy and simply kill him.

Longsword is fast enough so no need to have HBS and longsword hits like a truck (40cut). Not to mention that with rotation speed adjustment you can spin with superfast longsword's stab like a helicopter. Totally not needed buff to Longsword and HBS. Increasing the variety among 2h weapons by making the unused ones OP isn't the best idea imho.

I have been using stats of +3 items because these ones are the stats that the items are (or should be) balanced for. For example heavy lance's stats were balanced for 26 pierce (not 23 lol).

Sorry for derailing post.

EDIT: Also it seems that some people have trouble with downblocking...
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Leshma on January 20, 2013, 12:30:15 am
Quote
19.01.56
- fixed an issue that prevented low charge damage horses to bump even when fast enough (test server only)
- fixed swing sweetspots not working (test server only)
- tweaked thrust sweetspots to prevent dealing high/full damage right after being released (test server only)
- tweaked crushthrough formula (test server only)
- added an option to turn weapon trails on without enabling weapon transparency

Done.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Haze_The_Hobo on January 20, 2013, 09:59:09 am
I imagine they were blocked by simply holding your weapon out in front of you horizontally in real life as well? Otherwise one might consider your appliance of realism selective.

Nope they were blocked by cutting the stick in half. ;)

I never was fan of a downblock, it looks stupid and feels that way too.

I just don't like how close combat works currently with long weapons, doesn't matter what class.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Templar_Ratigan on January 21, 2013, 07:50:29 pm
Long spears do what they do best.

Poke people in the arse. Plus there aren't a great deal of people who can do well on their own with a long spear.

Id rather encourage people to work together than play lone ranger.

We seem to have this lazy culture on video games, (and often in real life as well), where an issue that could be changed merely by adapting to counter or changing the perspective and therefore relationship to the problem, is instead taken as a cause for outside enforcement.

And this is as a man who finds his side and back often poked and prodded on EU 1.

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Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Torwald on January 21, 2013, 11:13:25 pm
Long spears do what they do best.

Poke people in the arse. Plus there aren't a great deal of people who can do well on their own with a long spear.

Id rather encourage people to work together than play lone ranger.

We seem to have this lazy culture on video games, (and often in real life as well), where an issue that could be changed merely by adapting to counter or changing the perspective and therefore relationship to the problem, is instead taken as a cause for outside enforcement.

And this is as a man who finds his side and back often poked and prodded on EU 1.

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A lone pikeman will look as a paranoid squirrel that's on dope. To have some formation its need teamspeak.
And if we would simplify the tactics commands as Follow me(with a big sign at the person) or Defend here (with a big sign on the map) we would see more Team tactics!

Or the pikes should be really slow to turn with and really slow!
The moving also should be slow!
Then it's pretty clear for the player that this weapon sucks on their own.

Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: Kafein on January 22, 2013, 10:51:41 am
It is totally different kind of kicking and you know it...

In normal duel with 2 guys using multi-directional weapons you were kicking while enemy was attacking.

With a longspear you make enemy hold his block and you kick right before you attack him with LS so removal of block doesn't change anything because you didn't have to block even before the removal.

You know it but present information so it looks like kicking is still good. Manipulator...

Just saying, as a one hander, pikemen kicks are the easiest to predict and avoid. They are also part of the well-timed kicks because as your opponent is blocking, you don't need to block yourself for your kick to succeed (or miss without you getting hit). Do you have a lot of experience with short weapons ? If you don't, I doubt you can really discuss what kicks are easy or hard to avoid.
Title: Re: How to reduce long spear madness?
Post by: BlueKnight on January 28, 2013, 03:48:06 pm
Just saying, as a one hander, pikemen kicks are the easiest to predict and avoid. They are also part of the well-timed kicks because as your opponent is blocking, you don't need to block yourself for your kick to succeed (or miss without you getting hit). Do you have a lot of experience with short weapons ? If you don't, I doubt you can really discuss what kicks are easy or hard to avoid.
Small Necro but whatever...

On Eu3 I have been fighting with Tyr with my one hander with warhammer and I got kicked only once and still blocked that and currently on Eu3 you can still do "invisible" blocks while kicking. Don't say that I don't know how to play with short weapon or don't know how to avoid kicks.

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