cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Auphilia on August 28, 2012, 01:21:06 am

Title: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Auphilia on August 28, 2012, 01:21:06 am
Figured I'd try this again...

Stats:

(click to show/hide)


Wakizashi VS Nordic Short Sword:

Weight -  1 vs 1
Difficulty - 4 vs 3  ---- Nordic Short Sword has a lower difficulty requirement.
Speed - 104 vs 103  ---- Wakizashi has 1 more speed.
Length - 70 vs 81  ---- Nordic Short Sword has 11 more length.
Thrust - 21 vs 23 ---- Nordic Short Sword does 2 more pierce damage.
Swing - 28 vs 28
Slots - 1 vs 1
Cost - 7,554 vs 2,334 ---- Nordic Short Sword is cheaper by a total of 5,220 gold.

Wakizashi is over triple the cost of a sword that is better or equal to it in all stats with the exception of a single speed point.



This just seems like extreme anti-weaboo balancing. If you don't want the weaboo stuff, take it out. If you aren't going to take it out, then at least balance it fairly please, that is all I'm asking.  :?

[EDIT]: The only argument given to explain this extremely biased balancing is "style". Because of this, I have made a comparison to other items who are balanced based on style. Not a single one of them is anywhere near a 5k increase to price.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: HardRice on August 28, 2012, 01:25:05 am
Ass.

Just type ass goddammit.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Miwiw on August 28, 2012, 01:28:22 am
Don't hate on Nordmen equip! Only difference is nearly 400 upkeep. You cannot change the length if the model is that short, what do you expect?
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Auphilia on August 28, 2012, 01:30:40 am
I expect the difference not to be +400 upkeep for a sword that is clearly worse?  :rolleyes:

Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Miwiw on August 28, 2012, 01:40:51 am
Well, since when did upkeep actually really matter though. That's why you see most people using the best 1h swords anyway, that is 300+ upkeep. I always used the Nordic Short Sword though, didnt mind the low upkeep but the lower range in comparison to Nordic War Sword for example.

You get 1 speed for 2 pierce dmg (thrust!), which is a nice trade. There's nothing to do about range, though you are of course welcome to make a new model that looks nice.

By the way, do you know how amazing high speed and short range is in siege? I do, and loved that "weaboo" sword.

Higher upkeep simply has the reason for its style. You like it? Pay for it. :P
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Casimir on August 28, 2012, 01:45:38 am
my 1h waki alt does alright.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: TugBoat on August 28, 2012, 01:53:55 am
You all are missing the point and putting up straw man arguments.

"It's only _______ more expensive"

and

"I can still do well with it"

are pointless arguments.

The fact of the matter is that a sword is clearly a better choice, and is also cheaper. If a sword is more expensive, its stats should be reflexive of the cost increase. We're not asking for the model to be changed so it has greater length. If a weapon is shorter but more expensive, perhaps the damage or speed needs to be buffed to match? A cheaper sword is literally better in all aspects. This should be adjusted or the sword should be removed. There is no point in having it in the game if it serves no purpose
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Auphilia on August 28, 2012, 01:58:37 am
I'm not saying it is a bad weapon, well never mind, it is a bad weapon...but the point is that there is no reason for it to cost triple the price of a sword that is clearly better.

As for your logic about "style" then why doesn't the long dagger, scottish sword, italian falchion, etc, cost more? Those are more stylish than their counterparts. Triple the price because of style? LOL. Why not triple the price of the nodachi and katana as well? Since they are so stylish.

I just don't see how the wakizashi is fairly balanced, even if you did want to make it more expensive for "style" it shouldn't be triple the price of its alternatives.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: TurmoilTom on August 28, 2012, 02:13:41 am
This thread again? I'll just go ahead and get it all over with. Prepare your minds to be blown.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Nehvar on August 28, 2012, 02:17:35 am
I'm not a huge fan of the weaboo gear but the wakazashi, as it is now, is a joke.  Plus one for fixing/changing it from me.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Vibe on August 28, 2012, 07:42:52 am
Lol nice find, definitely needs some tweaking or reduced cost.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Ptolemy on August 28, 2012, 07:59:46 am
Reduce the upkeep on the waki and then everyone is happy. For the record, the difference between 103 and 104 speed is nothing.

Especially me, since I'll be able to use it on my archer alt again - costs too much to use Yumi, Tatars and a Wakisashi.

This anti-Japanese bias really has to stop.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Wiltzu on August 28, 2012, 08:01:04 am
Well why do you Japanese need so much fancy stuff into a sword =/ Of course it's gonna cost more!
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: ArysOakheart on August 28, 2012, 09:26:57 am
He is upset the item he uses for aesthetic purposes costs him so much. 
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: dodnet on August 28, 2012, 10:09:43 am
Nordic Short Sword looks like boring shit, Wakizashi looks great. You have to pay for style!
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Teeth on August 28, 2012, 11:04:37 am
70 length and 103 speed is retardedly shit if you only get 28 cut.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Micah on August 28, 2012, 12:42:45 pm
Nordic Short Sword looks like boring shit, Wakizashi looks great. You have to pay for style!
Thats propably the point eventhough i think the price is a bit over the limit. Look at the armor shop section where you will find similar cases. Dont get me wrong , i really like that item and want to get a mw wakisashi some day , but its a style item and i will have to pay for that ^^

Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: cmp on August 28, 2012, 12:47:15 pm
Just because it's Japanese doesn't mean it has to be almost as useless as the Sumpter and super expensive.

It doesn't?
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on August 28, 2012, 12:48:28 pm
You know what they say, you gotta pay to look gay.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Micah on August 28, 2012, 01:08:39 pm
On a further note :
The other day i was reading in a documentary that wearing the "pair" (katana and wakisashi) was fairly common, since each weapon had their distinct purpose . So combination of both weapons should be considered as two parts of a mighty set ... and thus the price of both together should reflect that ...
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: dodnet on August 28, 2012, 01:47:09 pm
On a further note :
The other day i was reading in a documentary that wearing the "pair" (katana and wakisashi) was fairly common, since each weapon had their distinct purpose . So combination of both weapons should be considered as two parts of a mighty set ... and thus the price of both together should reflect that ...

I read that too and tried it on my weaboo-alt... they look shitty together, because they both are sheated on the same side  :?

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Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Micah on August 28, 2012, 01:58:30 pm
I read that too and tried it on my weaboo-alt... they look shitty together, because they both are sheated on the same side  :?
A matter of taste i'd say. You dont have to use the pair on the other hand  :wink:
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Leshma on August 28, 2012, 04:02:36 pm
This anti-Japanese bias really has to stop.

No such thing in cRPG.

It's anti-weeaboo :wink:
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Memento_Mori on August 28, 2012, 04:14:03 pm
Due to the crazy price of the wakizashi, weeaboo clans in Strategus will never touch it. Effectively restricting the equipment that they can use even more.

In cRPG it's like 520 upkeep if it happens to break, even if you don't unsheathe it once.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Auphilia on August 28, 2012, 05:47:03 pm
Okay I'm tired of all the "style" bullshit arguments. We all know it is complete bullshit, and if you don't then your head is up your ass. If you honestly believe that style is suppose to increase an item's cost over 5k, then let us look at some of these other items who have their costs increased based on "style".

For example, the following armors all have exactly the same stats.
Stats:
(click to show/hide)

Armors & Costs:
(click to show/hide)

According to "style balance", all of these items should cost triple the previous.

That would look more like this:
(click to show/hide)

Obviously only a very few players would ever be able to afford playing a lord, prince, or king and still have fun with this game, which is why they aren't triple the cost based on "style". Neither should be the wakizashi. Period. How the hell does it costs less to look like a king than it does to look like a common samurai or ninja? That is just complete bullshit lol.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Stylin_ATS on August 28, 2012, 06:04:29 pm
Well this thread illustrates the prevailing mentality of this retarded community -- you're only allowed to like European things, and you're a weaboo bundle of sticks if you like anything from Japan. Why don't you all try getting over it, we know you're insecure and need to put others down at any opportunity to do so but please, give it a rest.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Mr_Oujamaflip on August 28, 2012, 06:21:24 pm
Given the Wakizashi is a pointless weapon with those stats reduce the price.

If it was cheap enough I'd wear it to not use it and look cool.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Gurnisson on August 28, 2012, 06:23:47 pm
The Wakizashi seems a bit to cheap tbh

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Jarlek on August 28, 2012, 06:28:31 pm
(click to show/hide)
My +3 Blue Churburg is thus a Lordly Lord Armour? AWWW YEAH!
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Thomek on August 28, 2012, 07:06:49 pm
0 slot would be cool.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Ptolemy on August 28, 2012, 07:22:36 pm
I actually like how the wakizashi and the katana look together, but in fact if it were looked at as a set, it would be a Nodachi, Katana and Wakizashi as a set of three. Which would look badass - only it would cost a fortune.

If the Waki were cheaper, I would consider +3ing one so that I could wear it with my Katana on my main. As it is, I just want to be able to use it on my alt. It would also be of benefit to those who want to see the weeaboo die, since the military pick that I'm using as a replacement at the moment is superior and cheaper to the waki, so allowing me to use it would in fact cause me to die more often.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Dach on August 28, 2012, 08:54:29 pm
Personnaly I would keep quiet before they nerf your OP armor too.  :mrgreen:

The light strange armor still got the lordly bonus instead of reinforced  :o
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 28, 2012, 09:00:51 pm
Okay I'm tired of all the "style" bullshit arguments. We all know it is complete bullshit, and if you don't then your head is up your ass. If you honestly believe that style is suppose to increase an item's cost over 5k, then let us look at some of these other items who have their costs increased based on "style".

For example, the following armors all have exactly the same stats.
Stats:
(click to show/hide)

Armors & Costs:
(click to show/hide)

According to "style balance", all of these items should cost triple the previous.

That would look more like this:
(click to show/hide)

Obviously only a very few players would ever be able to afford playing a lord, prince, or king and still have fun with this game, which is why they aren't triple the cost based on "style". Neither should be the wakizashi. Period. How the hell does it costs less to look like a king than it does to look like a common samurai or ninja? That is just complete bullshit lol.

Counterpoint:

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Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: JennaHaze on August 28, 2012, 09:01:42 pm


Plate Armor: 22,662 gold.
Blue Churburg Curiass: 67,986 gold. ----- If you want to be a lord, that is the price for style.  8-)
Red Churburg Curiass: 203,958 gold. ----- If you want to be a prince, that is the price for style.  :lol:
Churburg Curiass: 611,874 gold. ----- If you want to be a king, that is the price for style.  :rolleyes:








ARE YOU FUCKING DRUNK?
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Lt_Anders on August 28, 2012, 09:05:49 pm
He's making a point. If you are going to use the "It costs more for style" then he took a simple style variation for armor and showed how stupid it is.

But then the Nobleman outfits are ALSO on the other end. You pay a lot to look like a noble. Probably the only style choice out there that is as glaring as the wakizashi one.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Auphilia on August 28, 2012, 09:31:23 pm
The nobleman outfits aren't +5k increase to their counterparts, they are ~1k. Wakizashi is over 5k additional cost for "style". There is absolutely nothing in the game as ridiculously overpriced as that.

So again...there is no reasonable and fair reason for it.

Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 28, 2012, 09:36:09 pm
The nobleman outfits aren't +5k increase to their counterparts, they are ~1k. Wakizashi is over 5k additional cost for "style". There is absolutely nothing in the game as ridiculously overpriced as that.

So again...there is no reasonable and fair reason for it.

The robe has the same stats with a buying price of 18 gold. So it is 3000 gold cheaper. This also means that the noble outifts are 167 times as expensive. That would make the Waki cost 391,334...
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Auphilia on August 28, 2012, 09:46:09 pm
Okay?

Last time I checked, a wakizashi wasn't an item exclusively for royalty though. So, that still doesn't justify its +5k price adjustment.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Dexxtaa on August 28, 2012, 09:53:14 pm
Okay?

Last time I checked, a wakizashi wasn't an item exclusively for royalty though. So, that still doesn't justify its +5k price adjustment.

The Wakizashi+Katana combo is symbolic of traditional Samurai. Only true Samurai were allowed to wear both swords.

If you used JUST the Katana, you were considered Ronin (masterless samurai; read "disgraceful")

In my opinion, you are paying not just for a sword, but for the status, symbol, and culture.

Also, Wakizashi were considered close combat weapons, but were more widely known for being used in the tradition of seppuku.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Auphilia on August 28, 2012, 09:59:49 pm
Based on that logic, the Churburg Curiass and armors that only a king or high royalty would wear should be much more expensive? Yet they aren't.

Wakizashi was standard equipment for most samurai, and most samurai were not royalty. So to say wakizashi should be +5k cost because other items are considered royal or for nobles, is ridiculous lol. Peasants could and would use wakizashis. However, peasants would not be wearing a Churburg Curiass. Peasants also wouldn't often be using fancy sideswords and such. Yet there is no insane additional cost for using any of these items.


[Edit: Just because it was tradition for samurai to wear both a katana and a wakizashi, doesn't mean wakizashi was exclusive to them. Not everyone will be using a katana and a wakizashi, and even if they did, it doesn't justify making that item extra expensive based on a tradition that does not apply to every samurai/ninja in the game and nor did it apply to every samurai/ninja in real life. The typical wakizashi wouldn't have cost as much as the typical katana, or more than a typical longsword and italian sword.]
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on August 28, 2012, 10:04:24 pm
I just checked wiki out of interest and it said it was also used by merchants and craftsmen to protect themselves from bandits.

And apparently there were some regulations as to how long the sword owned by commoners could be. I don't know the exact length, but according to this article:
http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Wakizashi.html it was shorter than a katana

It was common for common people to use a katana length sword and call it a wakizashi because it was legal to have a wakizashi, however it was illegal to have a katana as a commoner.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Dexxtaa on August 28, 2012, 10:05:35 pm
Based on that logic, the Churburg Curiass and armors that only a king or high royalty would wear should be much more expensive? Yet they aren't.

I can't comment on that aspect, because I don't know enough about the armor and its history.

Quote
Wakizashi was standard equipment for most samurai, and most samurai were not royalty. So to say wakizashi should be +5k cost because other items are considered royal or for nobles, is ridiculous lol. Peasants could and would use wakizashis. However, peasants would not be wearing a Churburg Curiass. Peasants also wouldn't often be using fancy sideswords and such. Yet there is no insane additional cost for using any of these items.

Different cultures entirely. Samurai generally were peasants. They had families to go to and farms to till during the "off season" for war. Comparing a armor that is designed for royalty (Cuirass) from a Western culture cannot be compared to a weapon that is designed for an Eastern culture. The production methods and cost are vastly different for both items from different areas of the world (emphasis on production method).

Wakizashi saw minimal action, since most melee army combat in feudal Japan occured with SPEARS and not Katana.


edit:
I just checked wiki out of interest and it said it was also used by merchants and craftsmen to protect themselves from bandits.

And apparently there were some regulations as to how long the sword owned by commoners could be. I don't know the exact length, but according to this article:
http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Wakizashi.html it was shorter than a katana

It was common for common people to use a katana length sword and call it a wakizashi because it was legal to have a wakizashi, however it was illegal to have a katana as a commoner.

That is true, but again, differing cultures. You didn't see merchants in medieval Europe rolling around in chainmail to defend themselves.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on August 28, 2012, 10:11:02 pm
That is true, but again, differing cultures. You didn't see merchants in medieval Europe rolling around in chainmail to defend themselves.
Agreed differing cultures. However, I thought you were arguing that the culture and useage of the sword(s) does have bearing on the subject.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Dexxtaa on August 28, 2012, 10:14:00 pm
Agreed differing cultures. However, I thought you were arguing that the culture and useage of the sword(s) does have bearing on the subject.

Well, my point is that using the Churburg Cuirass as a comparison point to the Wakizashi isn't a viable option, because too much of the items are different.

It's like telling me "Chicken meals should be cheaper because earphones are like 5 bucks"
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Auphilia on August 28, 2012, 10:14:58 pm
The point is, the wakizashi was not exclusive to nobility, therefore should have no additional cost as compared to items with nobility fees.

How's that?
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 28, 2012, 10:34:29 pm
If they are the same, equip a nordic short sword with your katana then.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: PaulD on August 28, 2012, 10:41:42 pm
"but teh styles donut match!"


Although I think it is kinda silly that such an overpriced piece of crap would even be put in the game

Maybe give Wakazashi 1/2 the price and +1 swing damage?

Then again, I don't ever plan on using this thing and people who use it tend to get killed like retards anyway, so devs can do whatever they want with it.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: cmp on August 28, 2012, 11:53:15 pm
It's the weeabooJapanophile tax. We make sure that weeabooJapanese items suck for their price, so that only hardcore weeaboosJapanophiles use them. WeeaboosJapanophiles should thank us for getting rid of cheap imitators.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 28, 2012, 11:58:57 pm
So you wear the wakizashi to help fit your theme. if you dont equip it, you will still look like a ninja.

If I want to look like a knight I wear gothic plate. In order to help my theme I wear a sallet with visor and iron greeves. Frankly, plate boots dont do much of anything for infantry, and 60 head armor is more then I need. But I wear it anyway to fit my theme. If I use rus cav boots and a kettle helmet I will just look like an idiot.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Bobthehero on August 29, 2012, 12:20:17 am
Whoa whoa whoa wait a goddamn freaking second here mister weaboo

First of all the plate armor has extra plate on the bottom of the belly, thus, extra price.

Second the ''kingly'' is actually the cheapest? Why? There are only yellow/golden inlaids, no fancy coloroued gambeson over the mail, its directly plate on mail.

Third: Blue and Red dyes weren't that much of a pain to make either. And a gambeson is pretty darn cheap to have. So the 2 armors with gambeson shouldn't be that much more expensive than the mailed one, the blue one being cheaper than the red one due to the lack of golden decorations.

Now you could use that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermes_%28dye%29 as a source, but I doubt anyone would go around wearing something that pricey to go to war with.

So no, nothing to justify the better price, except perhaps higher quality textures.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Auphilia on August 29, 2012, 01:47:07 am
So you don't think the wakizashi should be so over priced? I'm glad we agree then lol.

Also all of those armors I listed have the same stats. If you want to be realistic about the dyes and trim, then wakizashi should cost half or less than half as much as a katana, as it physically is about half a katana lol.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Bobthehero on August 29, 2012, 01:55:29 am
I am just saying that your prices jump and assigning things to a ''king'' or a ''prince'' is wrong.

Personally, death to all weaboo yada yada*




*Except FCC ones, if they do exist.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Auphilia on August 29, 2012, 02:44:53 am
I assigned those because only someone very wealthy would ever wear something as ornamented as those armors to battle, or have them even ceremonial. Whereas a wakizashi was owned by peasants and should not have such a price increase based on it being "stylish" or for "nobility".

Also I was showing that for other items that have identical stats and yet different looks, the price difference isn't as drastic. So there is no real reason for it being so with a wakizashi.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Auphilia on August 29, 2012, 02:46:40 am
It's the weeabooJapanophile tax. We make sure that weeabooJapanese items suck for their price, so that only hardcore weeaboosJapanophiles use them. WeeaboosJapanophiles should thank us for getting rid of cheap imitators.

Even if this is true, you should decrease the cost of the wakizashi, and nerf it to shit if you want.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Dr_Pockets on August 29, 2012, 02:57:01 am
It's the truth.
Wakizashi are very over priced. They either need to be 1. Buffed(length, strength, speed) or 2. Made cheaper ( they are pretty expensive for their stats) 

Edit: If length requires a new model than make it stronger or faster. It just need some form of buff either stats or lower price
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Bobthehero on August 29, 2012, 02:57:39 am
Lenght buff is impossible unless there's a new model.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Strider on August 29, 2012, 04:36:14 am
Definately decrease the cost and/or increase the swing/thrust damage very slightly.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Micah on August 29, 2012, 01:43:27 pm
I must say  that i do agree with auphelia very much now. In my prior posts i only looked for a good approach to the problem.
And tbh .. regardless what other posts say about style price for armors , there is no single other example for style weapons (not armor) with this ridiculous price/stat relation.
The price should be reduced to somewhat meaningfull and affordable, otherwise this all makes no sense , since its just an unused piece of an item that can aswell be deleted from the item shop...
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Jarlek on August 29, 2012, 02:08:38 pm
I must say  that i do agree with auphelia very much now. In my prior posts i only looked for a good approach to the problem.
And tbh .. regardless what other posts say about style price for armors , there is no single other example for style weapons (not armor) with this ridiculous price/stat relation.
The price should be reduced to somewhat meaningfull and affordable, otherwise this all makes no sense , since its just an unused piece of an item that can aswell be deleted from the item shop...
Torch is 10x as expensive as the club, while being slower and less damaging. Pays to look cool :(

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Auphilia on August 29, 2012, 08:35:43 pm
Even if you compare it to the torch (which gets effects that no other weapon in the game gets) a ~200 gold increase and a ~5k increase are two different things. If the wakizashi was flaming and could light up and look all magical, then sure let it be the price it is. At least that way people could simply troll with it until devs actually decided to balance it properly like other weapons. Also keep in mind that a torch is not really suppose to be a weapon, a wakizashi is. Comparing a cudgel to a torch is like comparing stones to smoke bombs. Smoke bombs aren't suppose to be used as a weapon, it is just for a fun effect.

So even still, there is no fair and reasonable argument for the wakizashi to cost so much with its current stats.


Another thing that should be made clear is that just because there are a few other odd end weapons/armors that have high costs based on stats, it does not justify why the wakizashi is so expensive with bad stats. If there are other poorly balanced weapons, then post about them until they are fixed. Every poorly balanced item shouldn't be ignored because there are multiple cases of it lol. What kind of reasoning is that?
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Bobthehero on August 30, 2012, 02:37:53 am
Long Espada Eslnova stats are shitty for its price.

Yup.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Teeth on August 30, 2012, 03:32:38 pm
I carry a Wakizashi and a Katana and only use the Wakizashi, fuck japanophile tax.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Micah on September 01, 2012, 01:08:14 am
Long Espada Eslnova stats are shitty for its price.

Yup.
is that supposed to be a joke ? because that weapon is crazy statwise imho ... its harder to play than other 1h (spammitar, warhammer ) but the stats are really sick ... 103 range , 28p (unloomed ) on thrust .. just lol
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Teeth on September 01, 2012, 11:26:28 am
is that supposed to be a joke ? because that weapon is crazy statwise imho ... its harder to play than other 1h (spammitar, warhammer ) but the stats are really sick ... 103 range , 28p (unloomed ) on thrust .. just lol
It's complete crap cause the 1h stab is a joke now.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Ptolemy on September 02, 2012, 02:54:56 pm
In after Devs ignore this thead.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Thomek on September 02, 2012, 09:26:19 pm
Make it zero 0000 slot.

Thats my personal opinion, its nothing but a mere accessoire.. expensive, but should be wearable. 
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Kuyamzoleta on September 03, 2012, 10:13:46 am
As a samurai wearing the equipment myself I'll say a few things I've noticed myself doing:


Whatever we decide, I'm honestly still going to wear the weapons cosmetically. I'd still say we should have a viable 1h samurai-distinguishable weapon to be able to use, but hey, I don't use 1h's so I don't really care about it.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Micah on September 03, 2012, 10:34:51 am
In after Devs ignore this thead.
better chance to get noticed by the right people over time in the propper board than getting lost beneath hundreds of silly QQ,trolls,dama and other wrong placed suggestions and toppics in random suggestions or even general board ;)
just be patient ^_^
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Kafein on September 08, 2012, 05:43:05 pm
Remove the slightly asian-looking girl from your avatar and devs will start reading your posts. Promise.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Bobthehero on September 08, 2012, 09:25:38 pm
is that supposed to be a joke ? because that weapon is crazy statwise imho ... its harder to play than other 1h (spammitar, warhammer ) but the stats are really sick ... 103 range , 28p (unloomed ) on thrust .. just lol

Its bad, really bad, been nerfed way too much, 1h stab is useless, etc etc.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Fartface on September 08, 2012, 10:39:54 pm
buff.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Silveredge on September 10, 2012, 07:24:32 pm
It's the weeabooJapanophile tax. We make sure that weeabooJapanese items suck for their price, so that only hardcore weeaboosJapanophiles use them. WeeaboosJapanophiles should thank us for getting rid of cheap imitators.

Blows me away at how racist cmp is.  How do you know they aren't Japanese?  After reading this thread, it's disgusting to see how a dev can take a stance against weapon stats on any item that are supposed to be balanced because of feelings towards a group of people or culture.  Balancing items should be exactly that, not be made a tool to poke at people you feel you are better than.  It saddens me that you post this garbage when you represent this game.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Ptolemy on September 10, 2012, 07:46:25 pm
(click to show/hide)

Prepare for -1 shitstorm, how do you think I got my custom title?

Also, still not seeing a waki buff, I am disappoint.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Bobthehero on September 10, 2012, 11:52:27 pm
Except weeaboo doesnt design japaneese people, for fuck sake, and Japaneese is a nationality, not a race.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Ptolemy on September 11, 2012, 12:10:31 am
Doesn't have to be a race to be racist.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Bobthehero on September 11, 2012, 12:13:01 am
Its still not a term that design Japaneese people.

Its like calling someone who loves ponies too much a Ponymy old friend, you are insulting the person, not the thing the person likes.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Silveredge on September 11, 2012, 12:14:16 am
Except weeaboo doesnt design japaneese people, for fuck sake, and Japaneese is a nationality, not a race.

I'm guessing you mean "define Japanese people"?  That's why I said "How do you know they aren't Japanese".  And you are referring to a debate that will never be solved with the argument about races vs nationality etc.  What is defined by the UN is this:

"In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/cerd.htm (http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/cerd.htm)

Not sure why I had to explain this.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Bobthehero on September 11, 2012, 12:29:48 am
No no no no

Person A is a white person from America, likes manga a lot and go on saying Kawaii and random Japaneese thing that barely make sense, he/she/it is weeaboo.

Person B is a Japaneese person who just happen to to like his/her/its own culture, it is not a weeaboo.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Silveredge on September 11, 2012, 12:49:28 am
What if person A is from Europe?  We had the exact same thing back when everyone was immigrating to America from Ireland, China, etc.  They loved anything "American" when they came over.  And the people that had more "time in" hated them.  The same thing, rinse repeat with other nationalities, Italian, German, Japanese, Filipino, etc.  But it wasn't racist at the time right?   :rolleyes:  We shouldn't hate any group of people who like a culture or nationality.  I'm sure if the "weaboos" were able to they would immigrate and become Japanese.  But they can't just show up on the shore like they used to.  Am I wrong in this stance?
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Bobthehero on September 11, 2012, 01:03:21 am
Person country of origin is irrelevant, so is the sex and all that, weeaboo doesn't say Japaneese culture is shit, just the people being dumb about it.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Silveredge on September 11, 2012, 01:32:28 am
For as long as I could remember I loved Medieval stuff.  I don't go to any renaissance fairs or anything like that but I really enjoy English style Medieval warfare and have a deep appreciation for it.  I don't see Europeans giving me a hard time specifically for that reason and nerfing the shit out of English weaponry just to spite me.  You can have dislike for weeabos, I just don't see any grounds for nerfing the weaponry for the specific reason that you HATE them.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Ptolemy on September 11, 2012, 01:51:37 am
Stop derailing the topic, this is a serious thread with a serious issue - there are other threads for you to go and be wrong in.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Bobthehero on September 11, 2012, 04:18:54 am
For as long as I could remember I loved Medieval stuff.  I don't go to any renaissance fairs or anything like that but I really enjoy English style Medieval warfare and have a deep appreciation for it.  I don't see Europeans giving me a hard time specifically for that reason and nerfing the shit out of English weaponry just to spite me.  You can have dislike for weeabos, I just don't see any grounds for nerfing the weaponry for the specific reason that you HATE them.

You're not being a weeaboo about it, that is, being obnoxious about it, well unless you try to speak in ye olde English, walk around with a sword and challenge people, personally I don't care for japaneese weapons, they can do as they please, I'll stick with my Stabby.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Ptolemy on September 11, 2012, 09:39:57 am
Good, now that's settled, can we get back to the matter of buffing this shitty ass steroid knife?
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Kafein on September 13, 2012, 10:06:36 pm
Stop derailing the topic, this is a serious thread with a serious issue - there are other threads for you to go and be wrong in.

Listen to this wise post !

And no I will not put any smiley so you will forever ask yourself whether this post is sarcastic or not.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Memento_Mori on September 17, 2012, 09:39:16 pm
Just some strat prices.

Longsword 85


Wakizashi 96


.... GF.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Deracination on September 18, 2012, 05:31:37 am
This is pretty funny.  The goalposts are at about the thousand yard line, now.  "The wakizashi's balanced."  "Ok, it's imbalanced, but they're paying for style."  "Ok, they're not so much paying for style, as paying for Japanese stuff."  "Ok, fuck Japan, Japanese stuff, and people who like Japanese stuff, but I'm not racist."

The wakizashi is stupidly overpriced and you're racist.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Pentecost on September 24, 2012, 04:07:27 am
I do not use Jap armors or equipment on any of my characters, have never owned any at any point in my career, and do not plan on ever owning or using them in the future. That said, I still think the Wakizashi should have either its stats, price, or slot usage adjusted for the reasons Auphilia noted in his original post. As chadz said here (http://forum.meleegaming.com/announcements/crpg-status-and-plans/msg522883/#msg522883), these arguments about the real life availability and usage of the Wakizashi are secondary to the function it is meant to occupy in game, and, in its current implementation, that function is unclear. There is little point to using it in its present state if you are concerned with efficiency, and its high cost makes it excessively punitive for someone who's just carrying it because they want to complete a look.

If this is the result of a simple oversight rather than an intentionally poor design choice, then I would recommend the developers consider either reducing its cost and remove its ability to block in order to bring it in line with something like the Long Dagger (another item used for cosmetic purposes), or improve its stats so that it is a more viable choice for actual combat. 
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on September 24, 2012, 04:44:35 pm
This is pretty funny.  The goalposts are at about the thousand yard line, now.  "The wakizashi's balanced."  "Ok, it's imbalanced, but they're paying for style."  "Ok, they're not so much paying for style, as paying for Japanese stuff."  "Ok, fuck Japan, Japanese stuff, and people who like Japanese stuff, but I'm not racist."

The wakizashi is stupidly overpriced and you're racist.
This guy got no infamy, fucking cute as hell. <3
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Ptolemy on September 25, 2012, 01:49:36 pm
This guy got no infamy, fucking cute as hell. <3

Because he was right.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on September 25, 2012, 02:10:23 pm
Pay for style. You can have a cheapass shirt from a low-price bullshit shop or a similar shirt with a famous brand on it. There is a huge price difference. Same goes for this
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: cmp on September 25, 2012, 02:20:57 pm
Pay for style. You can have a cheapass shirt from a low-price bullshit shop or a similar shirt with a famous brand on it. There is a huge price difference. Same goes for this

It's not "pay for style", it's "pay for ugly". You pay more because of the discomfort you cause to other players.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Ptolemy on September 25, 2012, 05:27:48 pm
It's not "pay for style", it's "pay for ugly". You pay more because of the discomfort you cause to other players.

Explain this then:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on September 25, 2012, 05:29:27 pm
Explain this then:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Did you just fucking hate on the Deli Cap? Fuck you.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on September 25, 2012, 05:30:25 pm
It's not "pay for style", it's "pay for ugly". You pay more because of the discomfort you cause to other players.
In that case please increase the my old friendtanas price.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: BlackMilk on September 25, 2012, 06:40:34 pm
In that case please increase the my old friendtanas price.
do us all a favor and stop writing in colours it's such a cheap way to whore attention
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Kafein on September 25, 2012, 07:51:28 pm
do us all a favor and stop writing in colours it's such a cheap way to whore attention

Actually writing in orange/yellow in a white forum is asking people not to read you.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on September 25, 2012, 09:04:13 pm
Actually writing in orange/yellow in a white forum is asking people not to read you.
This. <3 Not my fault orange is the only sexy color out there.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on September 25, 2012, 09:27:51 pm
Explain this then:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


I hope you get hit by a train
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Memento_Mori on September 26, 2012, 04:00:36 pm
It's not "pay for style", it's "pay for ugly". You pay more because of the discomfort you cause to other players.




You can feel his glorious beard throb in triumph as he laughs and his mix of cheetos and doritos fall from his lap to the floor.


Pay for style. You can have a cheapass shirt from a low-price bullshit shop or a similar shirt with a famous brand on it. There is a huge price difference. Same goes for this

Yes this would make sense in real life completely, but in a game where UPKEEP and ITEM COST both in CRPG and STRAT are a way to balance the items it doesn't make sense at all and really is just a big moral buster. (especially for the wakizashi which is a very subpar weapon even if you don't account for the price.)



Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: cmp on September 26, 2012, 04:04:11 pm
You can feel his glorious beard throb in triumph as he laughs and his mix of cheetos and doritos fall from his lap to the floor.

I'm not american.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Memento_Mori on September 26, 2012, 04:14:15 pm
I'm not american.

I don't get it?

You're not american thusly doritos, cheetos and other assorted junk food did not come flying out of your mouth as you were jiggling your giant beard in a laughing fit over your entirely clever and witty comments?

My bad.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Kafein on September 26, 2012, 06:50:25 pm
I don't get it?

You're not american thusly doritos, cheetos and other assorted junk food did not come flying out of your mouth as you were jiggling your giant beard in a laughing fit over your entirely clever and witty comments?

My bad.

Best way to get a wakizashi nerf  :lol:
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Thomek on September 27, 2012, 02:02:30 am
Make it zero slot cmp.

Please!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: cmp on September 27, 2012, 02:07:00 am
I don't get it?

You're not american thusly doritos, cheetos and other assorted junk food did not come flying out of your mouth as you were jiggling your giant beard in a laughing fit over your entirely clever and witty comments?

There are no cheetos or doritos here. I don't have a beard either.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: TurmoilTom on September 27, 2012, 02:09:42 am
There are no cheetos or doritos here. I don't have a beard either.

I don't think I could feel any more sorry for you than I do right now.

That's tragic news.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Ptolemy on September 27, 2012, 02:23:07 am
That's tragic news.

Almost as tragic as his lack of fashion sense. Kuyak and Warmask... then says the wakizashi is ugly.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Auphilia on September 27, 2012, 02:35:55 am
It's not "pay for style", it's "pay for ugly". You pay more because of the discomfort you cause to other players.

Then don't put it in the game if it is so ugly? Remove it, or balance it.
If the wakizashi has to cost 3x as much as its equivalent as a weapon, then do the same for all other weeaboo gear. I'm just asking for some kind of balance. Don't make rules for one weapon and use the excuse that it is for "style or ugly" when there are two other weapons that look identical to it (aside from their size) that are exempt from the ridiculous rule.

If that is a rule, apply it to the rest of them. If it is not a rule, then balance it.

I'd love to see the devs mega nerf all weeaboo gear. Then we would have more people explaining how ridiculous this shit is until it was fixed.
The devs added the items to the game, it was their choice, they could have removed them, they chose not to, so they should quit being so left and right about it and make up their mind. Remove the shit you don't want, or balance it and be fair about it.

Why are the devs so afraid of simply removing it all? If they aren't afraid to make themselves look like racists trolls, then why not simply respect yourselves more and remove the items you don't want to deal with or look at? I'd rather have devs that can make up their minds about what they want in their game, than devs that add shit they don't like just to nerf and troll about it. Why are you punishing your players for using fucking weapons and armor that YOU put into the game? lol

Take it out, or balance it.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Thomek on September 27, 2012, 02:36:33 am
Almost as tragic as his lack of fashion sense. Kuyak and Warmask... then says the wakizashi is ugly.

Let him troll on! He is after all, the hardest working coder we have.. :D
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: cmp on September 27, 2012, 03:39:57 am
Then don't put it in the game if it is so ugly? Remove it, or balance it.
If the wakizashi has to cost 3x as much as its equivalent as a weapon, then do the same for all other weeaboo gear. I'm just asking for some kind of balance. Don't make rules for one weapon and use the excuse that it is for "style or ugly" when there are two other weapons that look identical to it (aside from their size) that are exempt from the ridiculous rule.

If that is a rule, apply it to the rest of them. If it is not a rule, then balance it.

I'd love to see the devs mega nerf all weeaboo gear. Then we would have more people explaining how ridiculous this shit is until it was fixed.
The devs added the items to the game, it was their choice, they could have removed them, they chose not to, so they should quit being so left and right about it and make up their mind. Remove the shit you don't want, or balance it and be fair about it.

Why are the devs so afraid of simply removing it all? If they aren't afraid to make themselves look like racists trolls, then why not simply respect yourselves more and remove the items you don't want to deal with or look at? I'd rather have devs that can make up their minds about what they want in their game, than devs that add shit they don't like just to nerf and troll about it. Why are you punishing your players for using fucking weapons and armor that YOU put into the game? lol

Take it out, or balance it.

Or keep it as it is. Which is what we will do. Problem?
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Thomek on September 27, 2012, 06:10:12 am
Auphilia,

I'm not going to defend cmp here, as I agree with you generally that we shouldn't pay performance tax AND upkeep tax for weaboo items. Upkeep tax would be enough.. I think the items should be quite viable, but more expensive than euro stuff

Thing is cmp is not really the one taking all the decisions here. He just jumped into the thread.. :D  (He can I'd think, but he would step on some toes)

Some facts lost in time for you Auphilia:
* Dev team and especially balancers are quite Euro-centric. (And Especially the one balancer who shall not be mentioned but has a name starting with "P" or "U")
* Afaik chadz himself is the reason we still have weaboo items in the game. There was a time when he himself helped add shurikens, masked hoods and black lamellars. (Initiated and organized by yours truly)  I heard the rest of the devs simply wanted to remove it all..

I agree with chadz. Weaboo items are part of the quirky thing that makes cRPG identity unique, and Ninjas possible of course!

Also, I would't waste my time trying to convince cmp to change the waki.. Of the dev team your best hope is chadz or Fasader. :D  (Does Fasader even play anymore?)

Paul can be convinced if you have tons of credibility to spend.. And so far, you don't have that amount. (yet)
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Auphilia on September 27, 2012, 12:51:47 pm
Or keep it as it is. Which is what we will do. Problem?

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: cmp on September 27, 2012, 01:12:12 pm
It's a serious answer, of course it's not funny. Duh.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on September 27, 2012, 02:02:12 pm
Generally, I'm fairly content with the pricing and stats of the japanese stuff apart from the wakizashi. Never really used the wakizashi, because it's not part of my style. But its price point is an oddity considering how bad it is. But it really is just an item for style(with its current stats), like the torch, so it being expensive is not necessarily completely wrong. I'd say that it's a little too expensive though, but that's a matter of tweaking. I believe its main issue is it being useless while still having stats that don't look useless. Either strip its stats and price or increase its price and stats. That's the only changes I think you have a chance of making to it.

Also, I find that arguing through reason continuosly for a year is the best way to be able to influence an items pricing or stats. It's what I did for the katana, and I used up a lot Thomek's trademarked "credibility" in doing so, but eventually they did balance it to a point where I am content and it's a viable counter toward most threats(not to imply I was the only one debating the issue). The katana pre-december 2010 patch was a little crazy when everyone had 230 wpf and a 106 speed katana, but in my opinion they took it a little far when it was nerfed, which was what I argued.

Arguing with emotions and personal attacks will get you nowhere, though. Just a tip if you really want to change it. I remember a guy who argued that katana should be 140 speed or something based on the pricing and had a ridiculous "mathematical" formula to back it up, so don't do that either. Just be reasonable and try to counter every argument posed against you with some evidence time and time again 'til no one bothers to argue you anymore and the item is either changed or you will be forever ignored by others. And if you can not counter the argument, then concede the point until you can.

But personally I'd rather see more cultures included instead of eternally debating about this one culture. I'd gladly see a few chinese armours and maybe even a chinese type one hander and shield. Luckily many of these weapons can be replaced by european items that look similar. Then adding indian gear would be great aswell. Of course finding the models for these is the problem. I've noticed that my second favourite character after my ninja is my zulu and after that my full strength fat plate abuser. It's really nice to be able to change styles but also combat styles to fit the character. I usually try to immerse myself in my character and try to act as the character would. Brings a nice variation to the cRPG routine.

On, the other hand if you really just want to rave on the forums, personal insults and emotional pleading goes a long way to achieve that goal.

This ends this session of "Wisdoms of Old Ninja Lobbyists" with Khorin and Thomek. Thank you all for joining us and we'll see you again next week. :wink:
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Kafein on September 27, 2012, 02:17:33 pm
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Bookmarked

Btw, what about people that want to wear female dresses or male noble outfits ?

Those items are all 3k, even though they have crap stats for that price.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: cmp on September 27, 2012, 04:23:09 pm
Btw, what about people that want to wear female dresses or male noble outfits ?

Those items are all 3k, even though they have crap stats for that price.

We are obviously racist (?) towards noble people.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Leshma on September 27, 2012, 04:41:22 pm
I do understand that this is probably the only multiplayer orientated mod for Warband which has japanese items but you weeaboos really need to realize that's not the point of cRPG.

You should be lucky there's japanese gear in cRPG at all, not asking for buffs.

I never liked the fact that cRPG attracts so many weeaboos but I have to admit that I was lucky being part of community which has people like Khorin. Having him as part of this community makes up for 20 whiny naruto kids.

That being said, Wakizashi should be 0 slot. People need one more reason to hate archers.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Tydeus on September 27, 2012, 05:26:12 pm
Or keep it as it is. Which is what we will do. Problem?
It's a serious answer, of course it's not funny. Duh.
Yes, but to be fair, isn't that at least partially because we're doomed to never get another item patch ever again?  :lol:
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on September 27, 2012, 05:37:22 pm
Eh. Thanks for the kind words, Leshma.  :oops:

I do understand that this is probably the only multiplayer orientated mod for Warband which has japanese items but you weeaboos really need to realize that's not the point of cRPG.

It's a fundamental difference of view, I believe. To many(some weaboos included) this mod is about creating a character. A unique character that you can choose to play whenever you want. That's the core concept that appealed to me and the reason I still play today. I can't think of many others who have been actively playing the same character for all this time. I became a ninja purely by accident. I had no idea or any particular interest in ninjas when I started playing, nor do I to this day. But it's the character I stumbled upon, and it's the one I still am.

To me, having eastern and far eastern cultures does not detract from the core idea, it in fact adds to it.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on September 27, 2012, 06:59:33 pm
Eh. Thanks for the kind words, Leshma.  :oops:

It's a fundamental difference of view, I believe. To many(some weaboos included) this mod is about creating a character. A unique character that you can choose to play whenever you want. That's the core concept that appealed to me and the reason I still play today. I can't think of many others who have been actively playing the same character for all this time. I became a ninja purely by accident. I had no idea or any particular interest in ninjas when I started playing, nor do I to this day. But it's the character I stumbled upon, and it's the one I still am.

To me, having eastern and far eastern cultures does not detract from the core idea, it in fact adds to it.

Yes more cool 1h shit. The world runs on 1h and spears, make it so. 2h should be something you do because you broke your shield.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Mr_Oujamaflip on September 27, 2012, 09:38:49 pm
I never liked the fact that cRPG attracts so many weeaboos but I have to admit that I was lucky being part of community which has people like Khorin. Having him as part of this community makes up for 20 whiny naruto kids.


Stop hati- wait what?
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Deracination on September 27, 2012, 11:02:44 pm
The "you should be glad that there's even X and stop asking for X to be balanced" argument is ridiculous.  It could be applied to literally anything that exists.  To put it another way, perfect should not be the enemy of good.

Paying for style is something that's done only in the case of purely aesthetic garb and equipment with poor stats.  No one fought in a wedding dress or a noble outfit and no one carried a torch into battle as their primary weapon.  That's why they're overpriced; you're paying to be ludicrous.  This should not be applicable to any Japanese-style weapons or armor currently in the game, as they were all created and used for function alone.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Kafein on September 27, 2012, 11:35:46 pm
This should not be applicable to any Japanese-style weapons or armor currently in the game, as they were all created and used for function alone.

Yeah but shipping them to Calradia did cost a heapload of gold and even in top notch nord turbodrakkars the poor steel tends to become dull.

There you, awesome RP explaining why japanese stuff sucks in cRPG.

Also, it doesn't actually suck. The light strange armor was the absolute best archer armor for a very long time.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Auphilia on September 28, 2012, 12:13:12 am
I don't know, I've argued against every argument in this thread. No one has come up with any reasonable counter argument. Just more trolling.

I've argued why the wakizashi is too expensive (EVEN considering there is a weeaboo tax or style tax or ugly tax or whatever the fuck it's called) in about two or three pages worth of text.

It has been compared to noble robes before, and the argument is that the wakizashi is NOT a noble's weapon, and was produced cheaply enough for peasants and the lower class to purchase.

It has been compared to the torch, and the argument is that the wakizashi is NOT a fun item used for special effects like smoke bombs or other "fun" items. It is a weapon that was used to actually kill people. If the community wants to turn it into a useless "fun" weapon, then even still, nerf it and make it as cheap as the other "fun" weapons.

The weeaboo tax or import theory tax isn't a fair argument either, as no other Japanese weapon or armor is as ridiculously expensive as the wakizashi for its stats.

Aside from all the trolling, are there any arguments that I have missed?
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Kafein on September 28, 2012, 02:16:25 pm
I don't know, I've argued against every argument in this thread. No one has come up with any reasonable counter argument. Just more trolling.

I've argued why the wakizashi is too expensive (EVEN considering there is a weeaboo tax or style tax or ugly tax or whatever the fuck it's called) in about two or three pages worth of text.

It has been compared to noble robes before, and the argument is that the wakizashi is NOT a noble's weapon, and was produced cheaply enough for peasants and the lower class to purchase.

It has been compared to the torch, and the argument is that the wakizashi is NOT a fun item used for special effects like smoke bombs or other "fun" items. It is a weapon that was used to actually kill people. If the community wants to turn it into a useless "fun" weapon, then even still, nerf it and make it as cheap as the other "fun" weapons.

The weeaboo tax or import theory tax isn't a fair argument either, as no other Japanese weapon or armor is as ridiculously expensive as the wakizashi for its stats.

Aside from all the trolling, are there any arguments that I have missed?

No, you won the argument. I don't have any medal though.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Rebelyell on September 28, 2012, 07:57:44 pm
I can't agree with any of arguments of RP and stuff like that
that weapon simply need buff or prize rework.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on September 30, 2012, 11:06:29 am
I think the only sensible buff is to remove all weaboo items from the game
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Kafein on September 30, 2012, 12:29:04 pm
I think the only sensible buff is to remove all weaboo items from the game

That would increase the value of all the remaining weaboo items.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on September 30, 2012, 03:12:15 pm
Almost as tragic as his lack of fashion sense. Kuyak and Warmask... then says the wakizashi is ugly.
Waki is ugly, coolest ugly weapon ingame, like old black armor ugly, that's why I love my waki, don't make it 0 slot, don't decrease its price, don't buff it in any way, fuck ninjas.
Melee weapon I've been using for several weeks on the char I play the most is a waki btw, so fuck off bitches and fake ass assholes who think the waki is just an accesory to you my old friends and your fucking my old friendtanas all you ninjas with my old friendtanas are the gayest players on earth and the 1# guys I'd permaban if I got to pick, and NO YOUR STAB IS STILL OP AS HELL EVEN THOUGH ITS STATS ARE SHIT DUE TO THE OP 2H ANIMATION, NOW FUCK OFF.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Ptolemy on September 30, 2012, 04:10:04 pm
Blah.

Rage post is made of rage and post.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Thomek on September 30, 2012, 04:40:38 pm
Waki is ugly, coolest ugly weapon ingame, like old black armor ugly, that's why I love my waki, don't make it 0 slot, don't decrease its price, don't buff it in any way, fuck ninjas.
Melee weapon I've been using for several weeks on the char I play the most is a waki btw, so fuck off bitches and fake ass assholes who think the waki is just an accesory to you my old friends and your fucking my old friendtanas all you ninjas with my old friendtanas are the gayest players on earth and the 1# guys I'd permaban if I got to pick, and NO YOUR STAB IS STILL OP AS HELL EVEN THOUGH ITS STATS ARE SHIT DUE TO THE OP 2H ANIMATION, NOW FUCK OFF.


Zlisch why you hatin' so much?
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on September 30, 2012, 04:48:02 pm
Zlisch why you hatin' so much?
Dude, when I write in pink text I'm joking.
But seriously, thinking the waki is just an accesorry is fucking retarded, it's half decent.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: TurmoilTom on October 01, 2012, 04:27:12 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on October 01, 2012, 04:48:42 am
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no joke italian falchion is a BOSS sword, i used to use it when i was a 1h my old friend (i know you didnt post that but god i love that thing)
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: TurmoilTom on October 01, 2012, 04:55:43 am
no joke italian falchion is a BOSS sword, i used to use it when i was a 1h my old friend (i know you didnt post that but god i love that thing)

Italian weapons tend to be pretty boss in this mod, not gonna lie.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Ptolemy on October 01, 2012, 05:06:07 am
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Wait a second... the waki has 21 pierce on the stab but the katana has 16?

IT'S THE SAME MODEL!
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on October 01, 2012, 07:36:38 am
Wait a second... the waki has 21 pierce on the stab but the katana has 16?

IT'S THE SAME MODEL!
But then again the katana has a stab that won't glance 99% of the time...
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on October 01, 2012, 10:23:14 am
Ya. The 2h animation is a lot better. However, Zlisch is exaggerating.
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 01, 2012, 11:09:03 am
Ya. The 2h animation is a lot better. However, Zlisch is exaggerating.


He is likely accounting for the NA side which stacks armor like it is going out of style and anything less then 50 is "light" and "living life on the edge."  :wink:
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Bobthehero on October 01, 2012, 08:24:53 pm
I have 44 body armor in my medium armor gear.

#YOLO
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Leshma on October 01, 2012, 08:39:23 pm
Wait a second... the waki has 21 pierce on the stab but the katana has 16?

IT'S THE SAME MODEL!

Nodachi has none. It's basically Katana but a bit bigger and longer. I guess the longer curved japanese weapon is, less thrust damage it deals :lol:
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: Kafein on October 01, 2012, 09:10:01 pm
Italian weapons tend to be pretty boss in this mod, not gonna lie.

CoMsPiracy !
Title: Re: Whack A$@ Zashi?
Post by: ednos on October 02, 2012, 08:18:58 pm
He is likely accounting for the NA side which stacks armor like it is going out of style and anything less then 50 is "light" and "living life on the edge."  :wink:

Is this why killing people on the EU servers is so easy with 5 PS (if the high latency doesn't make you so angry that you want to swing a cactus (http://i.imgur.com/yq8Fq.jpg))?