cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Huey Newton on June 29, 2012, 05:35:46 am

Title: Nerf Cav
Post by: Huey Newton on June 29, 2012, 05:35:46 am
I think cavalry needs a nerf.
Cavalry being the class as a whole, not just lancers, but 1h cav, 2h cav and horse crossbowmen.
Pardon given to horse archers at the moment because it is shit as a class atm.
Noone plays horse archer on NA. Dunno about EU

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Heres what I propose.

A change that was made many months ago but taken out a few days after implementation due to whiners.

The rider being bumped/stunned when bumping someone on foot.

(This was the same change longspears and pikes had blocking removed)

Heres why this change was genius.

Horse charge damage is a dumb mechanic. You can get kills by holding up a shield and steering into people.

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If your enemy does not have a weapon capable of rearing horses (141 length polearm?)

They will get bumped for alot of damage more often than not.

I suggest the devs bring this beautiful mechanic back.

If it was brought back, heres what I see happening.

At least half of all cavalry players quitting cavalry to go do something equally as gay.

This will not only nerf lancers,1hers but also horse crossbowmen.

I don't think this is the only fix nor will this remedy the HX problem on NA but it is an encompassing nerf that does contribute.

(click to show/hide)
Bump lancing, bump couch-lancing, bump slashing and bump-shooting will be gone forever.

Thank god.

With a lowered number of cavalry you will see a steady decrease of throwers and an increase of archers and crossbowmen.

Just like old cRPG.

The players dedicated to playing cavalry will still have the stomach to play without retardedly-easy game mechanics to make a class already perfectly capable of high scores.

Please I want cRPG to be like old where you were lucky to see a horse on a server.

This isn't just a nostalgic wish, the reason noone played cav back then was because
1. Expensive to save up for a horse
2. Archers tore everything to shreds
3. Sniper xbows (no wpf, pinpoint accurate)
4. Lolstab on 2hers was much better and out-ranging heavy lances, even with their old lancing angle, was relatively easy for an average player.

Now I want most of the cav players to quit because

1. Battle servers are plagued with people Bump lancing, bump couch-lancing, bump slashing and bump-shooting (Game mechanic bad for balance)
2. More cav = more longspears/pikes/throwers/archers (These weapons are universally raged at on a daily basis)
3. Without cav being AS easy as it is now, people will either be turned off by the newly necessary skill to get kills, or if that isn't enough, the fact that necessary skill and all that upkeep will be problems.


Shit game
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: TugBoat on June 29, 2012, 05:48:22 am
Buff Cudgel
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Son Of Odin on June 29, 2012, 05:50:13 am
You don't like challengers? :wink: Nah I think it's awesome that there is atleast some horselovers nowadays. Rider getting stunned while bumping was not a good mechanic. If we start to think that some class has to be played less we would have to do something radical to ranged as well. We all know that if there is a lot of archers they make everyone else want to quit. Same goes with cavalry.

But then again I don't think you're serious and just wrote a parody about cav nerf threads, right? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Vkvkvk on June 29, 2012, 05:51:13 am
At the very moment of my post you're in Battle doing the exact thing you want to be nerfed, what the fuck.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Calmir on June 29, 2012, 05:51:36 am
Double Deeeeeeeez
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Shatter on June 29, 2012, 05:56:14 am
At the very moment of my post you're in Battle doing the exact thing you want to be nerfed, what the fuck.
If it's in the game, use it. Doesn't mean you have to think it's balanced.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: TiFFman on June 29, 2012, 06:00:56 am
If it was somehow based on armor that would be a nice feature.  Would suck having this happen when you bump a leather archer or naked dude or something.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Vkvkvk on June 29, 2012, 06:01:35 am
If it's in the game, use it. Doesn't mean you have to think it's balanced.

Not a very good exemple of practice what you preach though.

But I agree, had the pleasure to see Rohypnol just have fun turning on a dime on his cataphract with 4 shields to repeatedly knockdown Huey because shields reaches under the stomach of horses.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Miley on June 29, 2012, 06:07:52 am
I wasn't understanding everything in this post... but two things stuck out to me:
1. A cavalry player is saying to nerf cavalry, which means something.
2.
3. Sniper xbows (no wpf, pinpoint accurate)
No, in old cRPG crossbow WPF didn't work, and it was inaccurrate as 1 WPF is now, but for everyone, even those with WPF in crossbows. It was never pinpoint...

Anyways, I don't think cavalry is thaaaaat overpowered; I just think cavalry bumps should be changed to the Native style bumps, and we can see from there.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Maciver on June 29, 2012, 06:17:28 am
At the very moment of my post you're in Battle doing the exact thing you want to be nerfed, what the fuck.

He is always cav, always has been, regardless of changes to the class.

Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Frell on June 29, 2012, 06:24:30 am
:) needed

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,34966.0.html
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: San on June 29, 2012, 06:30:17 am
Yes to the poll, but I think stunning the rider when they bump won't be a liked mechanic. It seems like it punishes cav for performing correctly. However, I think cav should be punished more for screwing up.

-Increased lance angle on the shorter spears so they can combat lancer cav. Good against lancer cav, takes skill to beat anything else.
-Stun the rider when he gets stopped, so he can't poke his way out or get off the horse that easily.
-Either 30% damage straight up when dehorsed or fall damage based on horse speed and mitigated by leg armor. Not too little or too much. Cav don't always fall in the spot that you think, so there are times where dehorsed cav don't get hit at all, and many are capable melee builds.

I think the above three are good, and only worsen situations where the cavalry player may likely die, anyhow.

(optional)increased speed required to bump/knockdown- this is the most direct nerf, so I could see how cav would hate this. It would also be even harder for them to get away if stopped. An alternate option would be to reduce shield forcefield on horse. It should not cover the legs. That way, low speed knockdowns will be harder to perform.

EDIT:

Almost forgot

To help ranged against cav, remove the weakness of the legs, and make the head even weaker. It nerfs frontal assaults against archers, reduces teamhit damage to your horse, and increases the chance of a pikeman killing the horse outright. The head is small enough for only skilled ranged to hit from afar, and it is the part of the horse that the rider can control the best.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Ubereem on June 29, 2012, 06:39:21 am
I wasn't understanding everything in this post... but two things stuck out to me:
1. A cavalry player is saying to nerf cavalry, which means something.


its simple he doesnt like being chased or killed by other cav which he believes aren't on the same skill level as him. he wants to be the only cav riding around lancing peasants in the back. lets face it rohy and these other cavers just get in his way
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Huey Newton on June 29, 2012, 06:47:21 am
he wants to be the only cav riding around lancing peasants in the back.

 :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Slamz on June 29, 2012, 07:02:09 am
I agree with this solution.

I would also have accepted a nerf to coursers and arabians.  If all cav were on destriers, I don't think there'd be nearly the problem, even without implementing bump-stuns.  Just too easy to lance people by surprise when you can come up on them at 80 mph.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: ROHYPNOL on June 29, 2012, 07:21:02 am
the question you are asking is irrelevant to what you are trying to explain or ask for a nerf.. and who would not want something to take skill anyway.. you cant go and completely change a game in so many ways with 1 swipe so gl with that.. oh btw i wasnt turning on a dime with my 3str 15agi 5 riding cataphract lol.. i would  much rather it be the way it is now than it be an archer fest.. if cav is taken away there that means there will be twice as many archers.. then you will be posting another irrelevant question on a thread saying.. do you want archery to take skill lol.. also i dont know if you realized that they, the devs actually made a server taht was OLD CRPG.. but im not sure how far it went back but it was a big failure because no one liked it.. just sayin..
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Leesin on June 29, 2012, 07:24:49 am
Maybe they should add this mechanic to your character and no one elses.

Posting in a renown whore thread.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: HardRice on June 29, 2012, 07:48:29 am
Maybe they should add this mechanic to your character and no one elses.

Posting in a renown whore thread.
Get out.

I agree with nerf, make cav quit naoo.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Kuyamzoleta on June 29, 2012, 08:04:23 am
you cant go and completely change a game in so many ways with 1 swipe so gl with that..

They have been.

In concerns to the OP, I'd like to see your hypothesis(when it comes to projected class playing increases and decreases) come into motion. You've got a lot of hopeful values such as throwers decreasing, and archers and crossbowers increasing, turning the game into old c-rpg. Which, I believe, are what the developers are TRYING to do. they're trying to make this game a bit more teamwork oriented, and you could see this with the gameplay mechanics they've been recently changing, and what they propose to change in the future (i.e. multiplier, more mechanic changes). 
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: bonekuukkeli on June 29, 2012, 09:18:17 am
I don't think cav needs big nerf at all. Best way to "nerf" them and most classes out there is _map planning_.

When there's lot's of cavs, add more village / mountain maps in rotation. I don't care if there's many cav players out there if I have places to hide and ambush them at corners. Only flat maps are problematic sometimes if other team gets all cav players.

edit:

But sure if we talk about nerfs.... make it so that cav players sometimes fall off from horse if they receive high damage (good riding would reduce falling changes). Aaaaand if they rush to wall, make them fall off from horse. Maybe then make it so that some spear weapons would be stuck in bodies if unlucky so they need to pick up new one or go with backup slashing weapon. Also reduce bumpslashing through their own horse, it's just idiotic to see sword going through their own horse necks and hitting enemies.

Maybe my biggest wish:

Make us have assist points/ horse killing points in scoreboard for killing horses. That would encourage people to actually kill them and build characters specialized in horse killing.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Visconti on June 29, 2012, 09:20:22 am
+1

Any nerf to cav is a good nerf atm, the amount of cav on servers is retarded, watching them ride around like jets lancing everything in sight while being able to turn their war rhinos (cataphracts) on a dime is ridiculous. Fact that one of the best NA cav is asking for a nerf says something as well.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: bruce on June 29, 2012, 09:21:34 am
Better to nerf cav and put more open maps in rotation.

Maps shouldn't lead to "my class is useless on this / not this shit again, alt-tab time". Neither should they be so small so that infantry can go from one spawn to another in 30 seconds.

Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: bosco on June 29, 2012, 09:28:59 am
Far too many horses on EU_1. Something should be changed.

Or bring back LADDERS so RANGED can actually shoot the horses down.

These days, you're lucky if you can get more than two Arbalest shots off before you get bumped/lanced/whatever. Counting on teammates to cover you while reloading is a futile matter.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Matey on June 29, 2012, 09:41:31 am
I don't remember exactly how the rider getting bumped thing worked, but there is a way to make it exceptionally awesome IMO.

(if this is how it worked then sorry for redundancy)
horse bumps a player, the player gets knocked on his ass and the horse carries on, but the rider gets jolted enough that he cant swing a weapon.

this means that if the cav is trying to pick off an enemy then he wants to avoid bumping the player, BUT if the cav is trying to use FUCKING TEAMWORK instead of just trying to be a KSing little bitch like usual, then it means they can knock an enemy down and have their infantry beat the guy up, or if they have another cav following behind them, then that cav can lance the guy that got knocked down. the change would encourage cav to choose between going for an assist or a kill instead of going for the kill and if that doesnt work getting an assist... it just makes them comit to one or the other... i think you would see some great assist cav players and some great lancers, but you wouldnt see as much herp derp cav.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: OpenPalm on June 29, 2012, 10:09:17 am
I don't care either way, when I'm cav I either aim to bump or aim to stab with my lance, not both at the same time.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: LordBerenger on June 29, 2012, 10:14:46 am
Keep it as it is. Only ones to benefit from this are gay 2h with gayswords. And poor shielders.

Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Slamz on June 29, 2012, 10:16:57 am
I don't remember exactly how the rider getting bumped thing worked, but there is a way to make it exceptionally awesome IMO.

(if this is how it worked then sorry for redundancy)
horse bumps a player, the player gets knocked on his ass and the horse carries on, but the rider gets jolted enough that he cant swing a weapon.

That is exactly how it worked.

As I recall, the conversation at the time went this like:

chadz: "We have added a new mechanic!"
Players: "Hooray!"
chadz: "We have thought of a better way to do it!  We are removing this mechanic until we implement the better way!"
Players: "Hooray I guess!"
chadz: "I'll start on it just as soon as OO SHINY!!"
*3 months later*
Players: "So.... that mechanic... how's it going?"
chadz: "What are you talking about?"

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Digglez on June 29, 2012, 10:43:18 am
of course the guy with 190 length masterwork weapon doesnt care about nerfing the other 2 viable cav styles.  If you think you're so hot, lets see you go for a month using 1h and see how eager you are for a nerf.  Not to mention the idea of a rider getting bumped when the horse runs someone over is completely stupid idea. 

Bumping should be the OPPOSITE effect, it should help 1h/2h but hinder other weapons like someone holding a 190 length weapon or precision instrument like xbow.



Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: dynamike on June 29, 2012, 11:01:46 am
Huey went mad, put him down.

Cav is your friend:

Cav success is completely dependent on the awareness and cohesion of the enemy team. A frontal assault of light cav on an enemy team is a death wish, the only margin for success already is to circle around the enemy to attack the flanks/rear or pick off stragglers. Even having dedicated ranged players mark flanking (light) cav will result in them being rendered useless. This is fine as it is, as it brings a nice risk/reward playstyle to cav.

When fighting more than one enemy, it is a viable tactic for cav to hit (lance/sword) one enemy and try to avoid another by running him over. It is in fact the only way cav can cope with multiple enemies (especially as lancer cav), besides their mobility, and only so if the enemy is not able to rear the horse, slash the horse or kill the rider. Fine too.

Cav is also the most expensive class to play and - just like expensive armor wielding tincans - gets rewarded for the high cost by a battlefield advantage. For tincans it is to be able to absorb multiple hits, for cav it is the mobility and extra hp the horses can soak up. Fine as well.

Cav can suck, too:

Where cav is getting imbalanced and annoying is when you have a lightly armored guy sitting on a fat old panzer horse with a big shield, constantly blocking. Often he can just ride over and out of a group of people without getting hit or the horse being killed. Money is imo not a sufficient balance argument for this.

Xbow cav is another phenomenon that drives people mad because of "slow" fighting style with constant reloads, the bump-shots and the dragging rounds out. I believe longterm there will not be many around and it really takes dedicated (troll) people to even stick with this class for long. A solution for this anyway if needed would be simply to disallow a reloading of all xbows on horseback.

In conclusion: cav is hard and being bumpstunned is racist.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Templar_Steevee on June 29, 2012, 11:40:49 am
All of you are talking about nerfing cav by decreasing their speed, hp and so on...

IMO fisrt we should check one thing: make cav louder.
Nowdays horses move like a ninja, you can hear them when you got a lance or sword in your back ;/
You should be able hear charging horse in full speed at least from 50 m , not 5 when it's too late.

Huge advantage for cav is that you can't heat them from distance, and all of us should know that the worst enemy is enemy wich you don't know about.
If you will increase horses sounds (remove pillows from their hooves), you will remove one of their big advantage: suprise attack from back.

It will reduce a lot numbers of kills made by cav, but won't nerf them too much.

I also totally agree with reducing force field around shield, but not only on horseback :)
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: JackieChan on June 29, 2012, 11:50:27 am
another HA nerf... :cry:
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: obitus on June 29, 2012, 11:50:31 am
BUFF CAV

WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CAV FOR ONCE G-ZUS
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: rebbrown on June 29, 2012, 12:27:01 pm
Lower horse hp a bit and decrease the horse's speed when it bumps into someone (the higher that someone's weight, the bigger the slow) so that when someone mad charges through a mass of enemies, he comes to a crawl. There's a reason infantry massed up versus cavalry .. but right now it just leads to cavalry free bumping through because if you attack, you'll just TK.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: masasa on June 29, 2012, 12:30:34 pm
First I thought this was just another poorly made "nerf cav" thread but when I read it again I can now see the OP was just trolling. You got me, sorry for neg repping.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Aderyn on June 29, 2012, 12:34:45 pm
meh, i just want cav to be less maneuverable. It's kinda annoying when they are turning, like some people say - on a dime.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Rebelyell on June 29, 2012, 12:41:50 pm
yea nerf cav again????

ahh fuck you all who plus that


cav need 1 fix

make me abel to hear them when they are moving around, now we have ninja cav fest, that is the biggest problem
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Idzo on June 29, 2012, 12:58:25 pm
Every one wants to be Robin Hood, Legolas, Gimli, Aragon or some other hero.

Take long spear,pike or whatever you want and stop crying.

Team play FTW.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Aderyn on June 29, 2012, 01:02:48 pm
you guys don't seem to realize that it's warbands own programming that makes it hard for us to hear horses.

The sound programming is horrible.

The time needed to figure out what's what in the code wouldn't be worth it.

I would NEVER ask anyone to rewrite the entire soundengine for a made game with shitty code unless they where employed and was getting paid alot. Wich afaik chadz and his band of raving maniacs brave valiant admins isn't.

But yeah, NA is kinda like rohan atm.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on June 29, 2012, 01:09:02 pm
I don't usually give input on balance when I have not played a game very long (only gen2 almost gen3), but here's my take on this. Cav aren't "OP" in the sense that most people would define that term. Cav ARE "gay" in the sense that most players would define that term. Basically, it goes like this. If another player is able to get a kill (or even worse, many kills) without visibly performing better than another player in combat, it's gay. Now, I'm not claiming that cav "takes no skill hurr durr". I'm claiming that cav does not require the user to perform visibly better than another player in order to get a kill. Same thing with archery and crossbows, and to a lesser extent, ranged.

Now, I don't feel that you can nerf something just because it's gay. If the devs were to implement a patch tommorow disallowing reloading of xbows on horseback, I would not mind a single bit. I can't stand fighting HA and HX because unless you a range player, they can simply choose to not be in any sort of danger. However, if there was a complete axing of HX, I feel that all those former HX guys would just go HA. I don't feel that the devs could then justifiably remove HA from the game as well.

So, I don't think that a "nerf" or "buff" is the answer to the cav "problem". If any solution is to be made, it would have to be something that discourages people from playing the class, but still allows them to do so reasonably. Price increases are the only thing that comes to mind, but I'm also not a very creative fellow. Maybe someone else has a good idea. That's my 2 cents.

Oh, forgot something. I don't go on EU very much since I'm in NA with a god-awful connection at the moment with no need to set foot there. Great Khans came in the NA server with about 5-6 cav players (mostly very skilled HA I believe?) and fucking WRECKED EVERYONE. If you weren't on the GK team, you had to enjoy your 1x or quit. I chose to quit, there wasn't a thing I could do about it as I wasn't ranged. I went longspear/pike, but that only prevents them from coming near me. They can still fill me full of holes since they were actually VERY good at that. Point is, I can only conclude that EU actually has that situation come up rather frequently since GK is a EU clan. Jesus christ, how horrifying.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: bruce on June 29, 2012, 01:15:16 pm
(1) Clone EU foot ranged players and ship them off to NA (we have more good foot archers, only realistic counter to mounted ranged)
(2) Lower horse HP, lower armour for unarmoured horses, reduce HP and armour bonus from heirlooming
(3) Increase costs of armoured horses
(4) More open maps, random plains and stuff; while it seems like cav paradise, it also makes it far easier to shoot down careless riders due to lack of obstacles to hide behind.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Tzar on June 29, 2012, 01:43:03 pm
I think cavalry needs a nerf.

Agree with the OP.

EU1 = 50% cav 30% ranged 20% inf

Most inf have fled to the siege server since they cant be arsed with eu1
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Leesin on June 29, 2012, 01:54:48 pm
Agree with the OP.

EU1 = 50% cav 30% ranged 20% inf

Most inf have fled to the siege server since they cant be arsed with eu1

I'd place a massive bet on your %'s being massively wrong.  :lol:
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Tzar on June 29, 2012, 01:58:30 pm
I'd place a massive bet on your %'s being massively wrong.  :lol:

Hmn riiiiiight... yeah maybe its 40% cav 40% ranged 20% inf.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Kerrigan on June 29, 2012, 02:25:52 pm
Damn I also thought you were serious so I gave a minus. Now I see this is a parody on nerf cav threads. Hehe nice.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: MB passionately on June 29, 2012, 02:57:16 pm
Allow a 2012 noob to have some questions:

So cav is good for every map ("all players take cav...")? would a good player pick an expensive horse in a narrow urban map?

Isn´t using a horse pure luxury for most players? How many folks have a six digit number of cash on their account? How often can I, an always broke noob, can use his cata-horse combined with a 14k armor?

Isn´t the bumping thing a matter of intelligence/teamplay? It took myself quite a long time to realize how to use a horse for the benefit of the team, not for 1 or 2 kills more. Maybe the cav riders should be "educated" better?

Look at the masses of tincans walking over the battlefield at high speed with a 50kg armor and a massive shlasher in their heavily armored hands, so you want to nerv players who have to rely on pure tactics to survive against these mutants?

Finally: Isn´t the game called MOUNT and Blade?



Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Gurnisson on June 29, 2012, 02:59:19 pm
Damn I also thought you were serious so I gave a minus. Now I see this is a parody on nerf cav threads. Hehe nice.

You can remove your downvote by pressing the minus button. You can change it to an upvote by pressing the plus button. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: BlueKnight on June 29, 2012, 03:03:16 pm
(click to show/hide)

Play cav and then rethink your request...
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 29, 2012, 03:06:00 pm
I rooledcav this gen because I thought it would be easy with a champ courser and mw heavy lance and man, it is much harder then I though. Sometimes I stab people and they don't die so I have to circle back and do it again. Other times I press the X key but nothing happens so I miss a couch on a peasant.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: rufio on June 29, 2012, 03:06:08 pm
i can say that this thread should be removed, the arguments made are... well.. not .. really ... arguments, only thing i can agree on is bump damage reduction , for the rest cav is very ballanced. and extremely eazy to counter. l2p america
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Lord_Panos on June 29, 2012, 03:07:17 pm
(click to show/hide)

Play cav and then rethink your request...

This.


Every1 thinks that cav is easymod because they see GK`s going for afk kills and shit.

But its not.

Horses die very easily because of the speed bonus,also same goes for the rider.

But what u proposed huey is just retarded.

Remove cav so you can get an increase in ranged and lolstab abuzers??!?!

 :shock:
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: BlueKnight on June 29, 2012, 03:13:06 pm
i can say that this thread should be removed, the arguments made are... well.. not .. really ... arguments, only thing i can agree on is bump damage reduction , for the rest cav is very ballanced. and extremely eazy to counter. l2p america

I bet that if I bumped you with horse... speeding horse... you would be in terrible condition or dead. Horses are hard and heavy lol
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on June 29, 2012, 03:13:41 pm
I don't get this. Is he serious?
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: rufio on June 29, 2012, 03:15:57 pm
I bet that if I bumped you with horse... speeding horse... you would be in terrible condition or dead. Horses are hard and heavy lol

i bet if i kicked you between your legs you would drop to the ground and not be able to fight, why is this not in crpg ?
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 29, 2012, 03:17:16 pm
I bet that if I bumped you with horse... speeding horse... you would be in terrible condition or dead. Horses are hard and heavy lol

Right but if I stab your horse going 50 mph and you fly off, you would just get up right?
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: BlueKnight on June 29, 2012, 03:17:36 pm
i bet if i kicked you between your legs you would drop to the ground and not be able to fight, why is this not in crpg ?
Balls of steel man and there is nothing you can do ;-)
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: //saxon on June 29, 2012, 03:30:02 pm
playing EU_1 before, we had a nice shield wall going with 14-17 people and some cav bundle of sticks comes along from behind resists all damage done to him and bumps DOWN every.fucking.guy. gets a kill and just rides off like nothing happened.

This is what i call bull a shit.

oh and one other thing i got bumped kill from an Arabian cav my old friend while is was walking up hill. fantastic.

this mod is disappointing me atm.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: rustyspoon on June 29, 2012, 03:30:37 pm
Cav is terribly easy to counter with teamwork, but who would want to stoop THAT low?

Running off in random directions and swinging wildly until you die is how this game was meant to be played.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: BlueKnight on June 29, 2012, 03:31:36 pm
Is it so hard to stay aware? If I had 20 athletics I would be stabbing you from behind with dagger. Would you ask for dagger nerf? Also if I had 5 more dagger_20_athl_friends you would be fucked man.

It is hard to believe some people call me whiner... Look at yourself whining at speedy 1-direction attackers. Is it so hard to press block down or jump aside or just hit the horse?
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Gurnisson on June 29, 2012, 03:49:25 pm
Look at yourself whining at speedy 1-direction attackers. Is it so hard to press block down or jump aside or just hit the horse?

People whine about Pikes being great 1 vs. 1 weapons too. With almost no spin, low damage, low speed, one attacking direction and massive thrust-stun it's still apparently not a huge disvantage and pikes are still too good for dueling. You know what, it doesn't surprise me that it's whining about cav when there's whining about the pike's dueling capability. It's just how this community is to be honest. :lol:
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on June 29, 2012, 03:58:21 pm
playing EU_1 before, we had a nice shield wall going with 14-17 people and some cav bundle of sticks comes along from behind resists all damage done to him and bumps DOWN every.fucking.guy. gets a kill and just rides off like nothing happened.

This is what i call bull a shit.

oh and one other thing i got bumped kill from an Arabian cav my old friend while is was walking up hill. fantastic.

this mod is disappointing me atm.

i call bullshit, you ride into a 8+ people group that are close to each other and horse stops by the sheer amount of inf it went into
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Gurnisson on June 29, 2012, 04:02:18 pm
i call bullshit, you ride into a 8+ people group that are close to each other and horse stops by the sheer amount of inf it went into

Might work, depending on the horse. However, doesn't remove the fact that if it did trample through 17 people, they all had laughable awareness and deserved to get bumped.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on June 29, 2012, 04:06:12 pm
I dont like the bump stun idea. This would do very little if nothing to actually nerf lancer cav which is the easy cav mode that needs to be nerf (and is used by 95% of cav), and it would heavily nerf 1h/2h cav to the point of being obsolete. 1h/2h weapons are so short its very difficult to not hit someone when coming in to attack them, not only that due to how short the weapon is bumping is necessary to protect ourselves from them hitting us as we come in. Also xbow cav is not OP in any way shape and form, and bumping is also important to them too as its the only way they can really kill a sheilder. Lancer cav on the other hand do not bump people when they are trying to actually lance them, and if they do bump its well after the target was hit with the lance therefore there is no difference than it is now.

There is no such thing as "bump lancing", ive been playing for 9 months now and that has literally never happend to me (never even heard the term until today), whenever i see a lancer cav coming at me i put up my gaurd and i never get hit. Its not even possible, to hit someoen with a lance you have to stab them before you hit them with your horse, the weapon is too long to hit them when they are that close to you. But i assume you mean bump lancing in lancing them so they have to put up there block so you can run them over safely, which isnt really much of an advantage, anyone who wears any armor at all is not going to be damaged by a lancer horse (courser) bump. Why are u proposing to nerf the only 2 cav classes that are not really OP and require some skill, while not nerfing the problem, the lancer cav at all.

I do think something should be done, but it should be in the area of making it harder for lancer cav to hit people, that is the current problem, anyone can charge a lance straight into someone its too easy.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 29, 2012, 04:07:42 pm
Personally I think the game is pretty well balanced.  Ranged (on foot and horse) can easily take down horses.  On an open plains map, try rushing up to the enemy team and see how long your horse stays alive before being shot to bits.

Pikes and Long spears (really even pitch forks) can easily stop horses in their tracks.  At level 1 I was rearing horses with a pitch fork.

I don't think cavalry is overpowered as people suggest.  I think that infantry in public servers generally have no sense of teamwork or tactics and that their stupidity leads to cavalry being able to pick people off.

In strategus battles, or in servers where infantry runs around in groups, cavalry is forced to go after other cavalry, or the people who run around by themselves.  Once those targets are gone, cavalry is only useful when two infantry groups are engaged in combat.

So where's the problem?  Cavalry is overpowered because people in public servers are too stupid to run around with a pikeman in their group?  Or because ranged doesn't want to target horses (when they do, my horse drops quick).

I think nerfs should end, the game is pretty well balanced as it stands, and nothing is overpowered.  Everything has a counter, everything has weaknesses, it's not my fault for exploiting my classes strengths while you do not exploit my weaknesses. 

Anyone who's ever been in a strategus battle with decent tactics can attest to the fact that cavalry is only useful when two infantry groups are engaged in combat, this is typically how cavalry was used in warfare, to flank engaged enemy infantry.  It's not my fault you have lone-wolf rambo types who think they can run around on their own, and then bitch and moan when they inevitably get gang banged by cavalry.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: BlueKnight on June 29, 2012, 04:08:32 pm
(click to show/hide)

You can bump lance but remember that every horseman that decides to bump, risks a damn lot.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 29, 2012, 04:10:48 pm
Listen to Lemmywinks, he speaks the truth. Heavy horse + morningstar is superhard.

A quick fix would be to give 2h swords the old stab animation. Now that 360 lolstabs have been nerfed it isn't as powerful. The minipike greatswords easily stop cav in their tracks.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: bruce on June 29, 2012, 04:11:09 pm
The only solution to making teamwork happen more is to make maps where solo heroism / running in random directions is suicide, like open plains (without big obvious clusterfuck ruin) and other actual battlefield maps. As long as half the maps are random town/village/whatsit run to the ruin and camp/ rush around streets clusterfuck there will be no teamplay.

We had on EU4 a long long time ago mostly open plains maps, lots of players, which resulted in big shieldwalls and formation fighting, because failure to do so was certain death.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on June 29, 2012, 04:13:11 pm
(click to show/hide)

You can bump lance but remember that every horseman that decides to bump, risks a damn lot.

I would like to see someone bump lance me in duel server or something, really it would be impressive to see that there was a game mechanic ive literally never seen before. Also what do u mean risk alot, 1h/2h cav have to bump or get close enough to bump every single kill. Ez mode lancer cav.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Gurnisson on June 29, 2012, 04:13:42 pm
There is no such thing as "bump lancing", ive been playing for 9 months now and that has literally never happend to me (never even heard the term until today), whenever i see a lancer cav coming at me i put up my gaurd and i never get hit. Its not even possible, to hit someoen with a lance you have to stab them before you hit them with your horse, the weapon is too long to hit them when they are that close to you.

Learn to play before making comments like that. If you haven't seen bumplancing in 9 months of cRPG then I'm very surprised. I don't know how it's on NA, but there's quite a lot of bump lancing on EU, and I can (could maybe, haven't played lancer in a while) easily do it myself. If you want to see the best bump lancers, watch the 'nomads' on DtV :lol:

It requires good timing, but it's quite easily done once you've mastered it.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Leshma on June 29, 2012, 04:14:24 pm
Keep it as it is. Only ones to benefit from this are gay 2h with gayswords. And poor shielders.

Less cav means less kills for me, when I'm using greatsword.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: BlueKnight on June 29, 2012, 04:16:08 pm
I would like to see someone bump lance me in duel server or something, really it would be impressive to see that there was a game mechanic ive literally never seen before. Also what do u mean risk alot, 1h/2h cav have to bump or get close enough to bump every single kill. Ez mode lancer cav.

When I play my cav alt and see an enemy holding down his block or preparing to chamber, then I decide to bumplance him. It usually deals small dmg but surprises an enemy and forces him to change his tactic. Have you ever played lance-cav?
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on June 29, 2012, 04:18:33 pm
When I play my cav alt and see an enemy holding down his block or preparing to chamber, then I decide to bumplance him. It usually deals small dmg but surprises an enemy and forces him to change his tactic. Have you ever played lance-cav?

Yes i played lancer cav along time ago when i was working my way up to morning-star cav. I also on occasion will use my lance if there are some lancer cav that are targeting me alot ot kill them just out of anger, dont need any pole wpf to be lancer cav.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: ROHYPNOL on June 29, 2012, 04:23:01 pm
nerf torch.. its stays lit while on horseback
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Blackzilla on June 29, 2012, 04:30:16 pm
I think huey wants this because this is what NA looks like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5HXF2qp-yY&feature=player_detailpage#t=224s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5HXF2qp-yY&feature=player_detailpage#t=224s) All the  cav on one team, causeing him not to top the score board, anyone who steals one of hueys peasant/afk kills, needs to be nerfed.






BTW didn't read anything.


I saw someone say something about bump stun, no do not RE-ADD that mechanic AGAIN, it was horrble you barely touch something bam you are stunned.


I lied I skimmed through this page.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Lord_Panos on June 29, 2012, 04:32:11 pm
Yesterday I bumped couched tenne,he was so mad  :lol:
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Weewum on June 29, 2012, 04:53:18 pm
Buff Lancers, 1h Cav, and HX.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Zisa on June 29, 2012, 06:31:18 pm
I'd like cav to get stumbled when their horse gets hit by anything.. you know, a weapon in the horse's face - as opposed to now where the horse bleeds a little and the rider couches you.

It is hilarious the people who tell Huey to 'try cav'. nubs. When Huey masters the art of not running over team mates he'll be really good. Not counting that vital skill (which few bother to attempt as it is THE hardest) he is pretty good.

I'd like a lot of other things for cav too, but...
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 29, 2012, 07:21:16 pm
For the 10,000th time on this forum, nothing in the game is overpowered.  everything has a counter to a classes "strengths".  Cavalry appears overpowered when you have 50 infantry all trying to do their own thing instead of working in somewhat coherent groups.  When you have infantry that runs around in groups that can compliment each other's weaknesses, cavalry doesn't destroy them.  In strategus battles where ground troops are more organized, cavalry can't just run through the ranks and destroy infantry at will.

Cavalry is only "overpowered" when infantry plays like fucking retards, with no teamwork or tactics.  Sorry you can't run around rambo'ing everything and then expect to be invulnerable to cavalry, maybe you should go play single player if that's what you're looking for.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: rufio on June 29, 2012, 07:25:40 pm
bump lancing is only hard with heavy lance, the lower tier ones its pretty eazy since the stab animation is way faster.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: bruce on June 29, 2012, 07:28:31 pm
I'd like cav to get stumbled when their horse gets hit by anything.. you know, a weapon in the horse's face - as opposed to now where the horse bleeds a little and the rider couches you.

It's more sensible that horses die if weapon is applied to face?  :?
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 29, 2012, 07:34:22 pm
For the 10,000th time on this forum, nothing in the game is overpowered.  everything has a counter to a classes "strengths".  Cavalry appears overpowered when you have 50 infantry all trying to do their own thing instead of working in somewhat coherent groups.  When you have infantry that runs around in groups that can compliment each other's weaknesses, cavalry doesn't destroy them.  In strategus battles where ground troops are more organized, cavalry can't just run through the ranks and destroy infantry at will.

Cavalry is only "overpowered" when infantry plays like fucking retards, with no teamwork or tactics.  Sorry you can't run around rambo'ing everything and then expect to be invulnerable to cavalry, maybe you should go play single player if that's what you're looking for.

Cav is the most OP thing in strat. The only reason it doesn't dominate everything is because there are rarely open field battles and its expensive.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 29, 2012, 07:38:27 pm
Tell that to any faction that uses pikes or long spears, or has any sort of ability to work as a team.  I've even seen it with my own eyes in the public servers where infantry forms up into formations (such as a shield wall with pikes behind) and cavalry can't do shit but pick off stragglers and circle outside the pack.

How people can even suggest cavalry is overpowered when ranged can take them out, pikes and anything pokey over 150 can stop them (I rear horses as a level 1 peasant with pitchfork) and other cavalry (like horse archers and xbows) can take down enemy cavalry.  Cavalry has plenty of weaknesses, they aren't this unstoppable force that some retards make them out to be.

The only reason they are ever "strong" versus infantry, is because infantry is fucking up and not using proper tactics or teamwork.  End of story, lock thread.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Vkvkvk on June 29, 2012, 07:39:53 pm
Cav is the most OP thing in strat. The only reason it doesn't dominate everything is because there are rarely open field battles and its expensive.

Don't listen to Huseby, he's a horse lover through and through and will do anything and give the most retarded logics and reasons to have cavalry not getting nerfed.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 29, 2012, 07:42:40 pm
Don't listen to Huseby, he's a horse lover through and through and will do anything and give the most retarded logics and reasons to have cavalry not getting nerfed.

How is my logic retarded?  Yes, I'm a 10th gen cavalry lancer.  What's your point?

I've been saying this for everything in the game, not just horses or lancing...nothing is overpowered, everything has a counter to it.  If you think something is overpowered, it's because you aren't using the right tactics, equipment or teamwork.

Lock thread, or come back with a counter-argument other than "nah-ah"
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 29, 2012, 07:48:52 pm
How is my logic retarded?  Yes, I'm a 10th gen cavalry lancer.  What's your point?

I've been saying this for everything in the game, not just horses or lancing...nothing is overpowered, everything has a counter to it.  If you think something is overpowered, it's because you aren't using the right tactics, equipment or teamwork.

Lock thread, or come back with a counter-argument other than "nah-ah"

Because you don't know what the word overpowered means. Just because something has a counter or a weakness doesn't mean its not overpowered, its is more (OVER) powerful (POWERED) when compared to other classes.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Canary on June 29, 2012, 07:52:20 pm
(click to show/hide)

Play cav and then rethink your request...

Do you know who you're talking to? You clearly don't know who you're talking to. You're making it obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about, like, damn. The fact that you said these words just makes all your other posts in this thread seem like garbage. Refutable, flawed, illogical garbage. Good lord. Way to ruin all of your own credibility in just seven words, man.

Fact that one of the best NA cav is asking for a nerf says something as well.

See that? This guy knows what's up. He knows who he's talking about. He's saying things that aren't completely off-base and ill-informed,  but he's still a bit shy of the mark. Huey Newton isn't just one of the best NA cav, he's one of the best cav in all of cRPG. This is not a hyperbolic statement, there is documented proof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ3fW1BxIRY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ3fW1BxIRY)

This video details the final win where team USA came out on top of all of the other (European) cavalry teams in a 3v3 match on an EU server. Huey Newton was on this team. He's one of the best cav players in all of cRPG, he knows what he's talking about. Huey Newton has played cav.


Anyway, any major nerfs to cavalry will just relegate them to the role they're best suited for. Any buffs won't stop them from doing it, either. I'm talking about picking on people who aren't paying attention.

How's that cmp quote go? "Give cavalry a 600-length lance and they'll just use it to backstab."
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 29, 2012, 07:54:26 pm
Because you don't know what the word overpowered means. Just because something has a counter or a weakness doesn't mean its not overpowered, its is more (OVER) powerful (POWERED) when compared to other classes.

Compared to it's natural counter, the pikeman, no, it's not at all.  Compared to horse xbows, no a cavalry lancer is not overpowered.  Hell even 2 melee players standing near each other is enough to counter the cavalry.  Cavalry bumps or stabs the first guy, and is vulnerable to the second.  Stop blaming your shit tactics for something being overpowered.  Also ground crossbows and throwers fuck up horses with impunity, not to mention archers (the good ones) hit my courser from 100's of yards away, even with me juking (granted it's a lot of luck, but still).

By your standards, plate is overpowered versus any other armor type.  And strength builds are overpowered compared to agility.
Everything in the game has a counter to it, and usually multiple counters. 

The game is fine, leave it the fuck alone already (this has been my stance for months in regards to any nerf suggestions).
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on June 29, 2012, 07:56:34 pm
yes for cav taking skill and etc

But no i do not agree on riders getting bumped when they crash into someone and I'm a goddam shielder, the easiest cav prey.
If you do this it could take more skill to use a lance indeed BUT you would kill 1h cav! it takes much more precision to hit someone with your sword given the fact that infantry in mount and blade can zigzag like it is not humanly possible in real life. Even if the cav didnt want to bump the infantry, he would more then 50% of the time!

juste nerf bump damage
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 29, 2012, 07:57:51 pm
Compared to it's natural counter, the pikeman, no, it's not at all.  Compared to horse xbows, no a cavalry lancer is not overpowered.  Hell even 2 melee players standing near each other is enough to counter the cavalry.  Cavalry bumps or stabs the first guy, and is vulnerable to the second.  Stop blaming your shit tactics for something being overpowered.  Also ground crossbows and throwers fuck up horses with impunity, not to mention archers (the good ones) hit my courser from 100's of yards away, even with me juking (granted it's a lot of luck, but still).

By your standards, plate is overpowered versus any other armor type.  And strength builds are overpowered compared to agility.
Everything in the game has a counter to it, and usually multiple counters. 

The game is fine, leave it the fuck alone already (this has been my stance for months in regards to any nerf suggestions).

According to this website: http://listverse.com/2007/07/13/top-10-most-deadly-animals/

The mosquito is the most deadly creature in the world. Yet if you put a mosquito and a human with a flyswatter in a room, who is going to win?
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 29, 2012, 07:59:06 pm
So you're saying with the right tactics and equipment the most deadly animal in the world can be killed with relative ease?  Thanks for agreeing with me.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: polkafranzi on June 29, 2012, 08:03:14 pm
So you're saying with the right tactics and equipment the most deadly animal in the world can be killed with relative ease?  Thanks for agreeing with me.

owned
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 29, 2012, 08:04:04 pm
So you're saying with the right tactics and equipment the most deadly animal in the world can be killed with relative ease?  Thanks for agreeing with me.

According to this logic nothing in the world in any aspect is overpowered. In folklore dragons destroy whole towns in a few minutes, yet a knight always prevales in the end by exploiting whatever it is the dragon's weakness is. That doesn't mean that a 30 ft tall flying monster that shoots fire isn't less overpowered, just that it isn't invinsible.

EDIT: That is like saying a 1991 honda civic with 300,000 miles on it is faster then a Bugatti Veyron Super Sport because the veryron's engine could explode mid race or it could run out of gas mid race.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 29, 2012, 08:07:40 pm
I'd agree a dragon versus anything in middle age warfare would be extremely overpowered...can we focus on c-rpg?
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 29, 2012, 08:13:26 pm
I'd agree a dragon versus anything in middle age warfare would be extremely overpowered...can we focus on c-rpg?

Unfortunately we cannot, because you appear to not understand the meaning of words, or the ability to apply simple logic.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 29, 2012, 08:23:50 pm
Unfortunately we cannot, because you appear to not understand the meaning of words, or the ability to apply simple logic.

Because I claim that pikemen (and level 1 peasants with pitchforks) can counter horses?  Or that ranged can counter horses, or that other horses can counter horses.

Or that infantry using even half-assed tactics in groups can easily keep cavalry at bay (or make them ineffective). 

Right, you got me.  I'm the one not understanding words or using simple logic.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Vengt037 on June 29, 2012, 08:34:48 pm
Warning: I'm only 2nd gen. Still a noob.

Observations:

1.  I enjoy seeing how other players adapt to game mechanics with changes in playstyle instead of rushing to petition devs to change the mechanics. More cav = more ranged. More ranged = more shielders, etc. 

2. My alt is cav and I noticed that I usually die pretty quickly unless I wait for the enemy infantry to get tied up with mine.

3. My main is a hybrid thrower and usually gets about 2 horse kill per round, hanging at the back of the army to make sure enemy cav doesn't charge in from behind to spear people who aren't paying attention. Teamwork = best counter to cav.

4. Bumpslash (1h cav) and lolstab (2h) both look goofy and seem unrealistic somehow. I would say give more speed bonus to the 1ha cav, but take away bump slash ability. The extra speed and inertia from being mounted is what makes mounted soldiers hit harder, not staggering someone by bumping into them w/ horse and slashing at the same time. I don't think that's really even possible.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on June 29, 2012, 09:01:20 pm
Warning: I'm only 2nd gen. Still a noob.

Observations:

1.  I enjoy seeing how other players adapt to game mechanics with changes in playstyle instead of rushing to petition devs to change the mechanics. More cav = more ranged. More ranged = more shielders, etc. 

2. My alt is cav and I noticed that I usually die pretty quickly unless I wait for the enemy infantry to get tied up with mine.

3. My main is a hybrid thrower and usually gets about 2 horse kill per round, hanging at the back of the army to make sure enemy cav doesn't charge in from behind to spear people who aren't paying attention. Teamwork = best counter to cav.

4. Bumpslash (1h cav) and lolstab (2h) both look goofy and seem unrealistic somehow. I would say give more speed bonus to the 1ha cav, but take away bump slash ability. The extra speed and inertia from being mounted is what makes mounted soldiers hit harder, not staggering someone by bumping into them w/ horse and slashing at the same time. I don't think that's really even possible.

How is bumpslashing as 1h impossible, i get its impossible with a lance but not with 1h. If you charge a guy whose facing you, and hit the right side of his bodyt with teh right side of your horse, you can easily still hit him with your weapon assuming its in your right hand, the guy is right there infront of you, so long as you dont trample him by hitting the center of his body with the center of your horses body, which if you do that you cant hit them in this game either, at-least not with a morning-star a longsword might have the reach to do it but i doubt it.

Using a lance to kill people needs to be made more challenging. A happy medium in difficulty between couching someone and hitting someone with a lance in a regualr way. Nerfing cavalary as a whole will only create alot more lancer cav, as the 1h cav and the xbow cav all go to lancer cav as  it would be hte only cav left good enough to still play. Thats exactly what will happen if we implemented this bump nerf.

But at any rate i dont know why we are arguing about this, the devs do not listen to us. They believe they know more about game mechanic and balance and that they know what is best, and they do, so they do what they want and 95% of the time they ignore our suggestions.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 29, 2012, 09:05:44 pm
besides me saying cavalry has plenty of counters, and they should leave the game alone...I DO agree that one of the worst things i can think of, is bump slashing (in native or c-rpg). 

I'd prefer if they got rid of the ability to bump slash, but the problem is bigger than being able to bump slash, it's the fact you can technically hit someone who is face hugging you, even if you have a 5 foot weapon (granted it glances because you have no speed bonus like you do on cavalry, but it's the same mechanic that allows for bump slashing/couching/lancing).

And honestly, I don't mind huey's initial suggestion that cavalry get interrupted when bumping, as much as I think it's lame, I don't see it being that big of an issue and would solve the problem of bump slashing (even though the initial mechanic of why it's possible remains in game). 

I do take offense when people say cavalry (or any class) is overpowered, bring those arguments my way and I'll shut you down every time.

*EDIT* You need reading comprehension (along with a lot of other things I won't get into here) lemmy. The guy never said bumpslashing with 1h is hard or impossible...and thankfully the dev's don't listen to all the QQ'ing from the community.  The logical people are saying that proper equipment, tactics, and teamwork can counter any class or playstyle, the people too stupid to adapt whine to the dev's to change the game around.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Idzo on June 29, 2012, 10:25:13 pm
Once again. Don't nerf cav. Team play FTW.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on June 29, 2012, 11:07:03 pm
stupuid horses
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Visconti on June 30, 2012, 06:22:07 am
So i heard cav is hard
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Pollux on June 30, 2012, 06:29:14 am
Can someone PM me robert namo's cav build. kthx
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Perverz on June 30, 2012, 09:22:28 am
cry baby's!!
lock this crap
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Herkkutatti666 on June 30, 2012, 09:27:32 am
Buff Cudgel
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: bruce on June 30, 2012, 12:15:59 pm
I'm a lancer so nerf bumpslashing but cav is fine

Rly?

Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: IR_Kuoin on June 30, 2012, 12:32:06 pm
Also, only jousting and great lance should be able to couch.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Solidox on June 30, 2012, 03:09:44 pm
Buff archers, Nerf cav.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: matt2507 on June 30, 2012, 03:32:51 pm
nerf cav... :rolleyes:
NO !!!


nerf arabian...  :rolleyes:
YES !!!



or maybe ok for a total nerf if you reduce the repair cost...
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Thomek on June 30, 2012, 04:14:18 pm
So the cav metagame has arrived in NA too..

Too many cav are simply just frustrating to gameplay for the biggest amount of players.. Their numbers must be reduced somehow.

I wanted to change them so they would play a little more predictable and use team based tactics more. Not going around like superfast solo Ninjas with 1shot backstab abilities, and super easy headshots with 1h and lances, which effectively quadruples their base damage..  (Just hold the mouse at the right angle at all times..)

Let's hope some devs listen this time.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Vkvkvk on June 30, 2012, 05:03:05 pm
So the cav metagame has arrived in NA too..

Too many cav are simply just frustrating to gameplay for the biggest amount of players.. Their numbers must be reduced somehow.

I wanted to change them so they would play a little more predictable and use team based tactics more. Not going around like superfast solo Ninjas with 1shot backstab abilities, and super easy headshots with 1h and lances, which effectively quadruples their base damage..  (Just hold the mouse at the right angle at all times..)

Let's hope some devs listen this time.

Cav metagame has been in NA for shitlong, it's just the first time that someone in NA is vocal like that about it apparently.

Horses are also ridiculously maneuvrable, they can nearly turn on a dime at full speed and the little speed they lose to turn on a dime, they just accelerate back to it within a second because of stupid speed stats and because Horses heirlooms are fuckretarded.

When I play as a class that can't deal with cavalry really well (Short weapon or archer if the cav actually got close to me) all I can really do is dodge while he turns on a dime and come for another run within 3 seconds of the first run, shit's stupid. When I dodge a horse, I expect to atleast be safe for more than 3 seconds but nope, that cav is already in my back wiggling his lance in my rectum. because he turned instantly.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: ROHYPNOL on June 30, 2012, 05:11:47 pm
hrm.. whatever buff horse crossbow.. you all suck at it..

NERF PEOPLE WHO ARE LEVEL 31+ FORCE THEM TO ACTUALLY PLAY SOMETHING ELSE RAWWRRRRRR
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Swaggart on June 30, 2012, 05:15:46 pm
Cav didn't used to be a problem when the longspear was 2 slots and all 2Hs and Polearms brought it against cav. The bamboo spear is even better if you have no polearm wpf so I'm not sure why people don't bring it for extra anti-cav power/deterrence. I guess it's because the line of thinking in my signature is much more pervasive.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Thomek on June 30, 2012, 05:31:11 pm
Shit used to be cewl when I could pull a bamboo out of my pocket.. Now there is no more hidden surprises for cav, so they just choose another target if you wear it.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Swaggart on June 30, 2012, 05:44:03 pm
Sounds like a pretty good cav counter to me.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Gurnisson on June 30, 2012, 05:49:41 pm
Sounds like a pretty good cav counter to me.

It's a defensive counter, just like shields are for archers. It's not an offensive counter, you just repel them. No half-decent cav would run at a long/bamboo spear
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Blashyrkh on June 30, 2012, 06:06:02 pm
to be honest I don't see the problem with cav ... I see the problem that all the cav is in one team (and not mine!)
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Chris_P_Bacon on June 30, 2012, 06:10:56 pm
*ahem* As a 2h/polearm user, if this change is implemented I believe horse charges should be one hit kills, just like in real life.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Smoothrich on July 01, 2012, 12:33:35 am
Reduce all mounted lance damage by 25 percent (including couching), and reduce all mounted xbow stats by 25 percent while you are at it.   Maybe consider a  reduction of the maneuver stat across every horse, but a small one.  Reduce mounted shield skill/shield coverage by a good amount.  I think that would be enough for a while.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Mustikki on July 01, 2012, 12:51:42 am
Give 100g bonus to whoever kills an enemy horse.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Thomek on July 01, 2012, 01:04:03 am
Reduce all mounted lance damage by 25 percent (including couching), and reduce all mounted xbow stats by 25 percent while you are at it.   Maybe consider a  reduction of the maneuver stat across every horse, but a small one.  Reduce mounted shield skill/shield coverage by a good amount.  I think that would be enough for a while.

This is a good idea, they can get large amounts of damage from speed-bonuses anyway. As well as was done with archery, one can reward headshots more, something which is not so hard and good cav already does all the time anyway.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Banok on July 01, 2012, 01:24:46 am
I tried cav recently and now trying archer so I can say without bias that cav absolutely rapes archers. as archer you have to spend most the time zoomed in and have 45 degree vision, and horse sounds suck - if they are going decent speed only hear them when they are 2 metres away and then its too late.

imo from playing arbalest, xbow is WAY better than bow for killing cavalry, you can always take your time and hit the horses head. but on open maps xbow becomes useless - and cav go about unchecked really.

yeah horses really need a nerf or a proper counter, but i'm not exactly sure how without making it unplayable.

It's a defensive counter, just like shields are for archers. It's not an offensive counter, you just repel them. No half-decent cav would run at a long/bamboo spear

+1
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: duurrr on July 01, 2012, 01:26:02 am
nerf cav

nerf range

boost all melee weapon speed by 5

put native animations in

ty
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Banok on July 01, 2012, 01:32:48 am
Quote
The rider being bumped/stunned when bumping someone on foot.

(This was the same change longspears and pikes had blocking removed)

2 of the best changes to crpg ever, why the hell did they remove these D:
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Leshma on July 01, 2012, 01:44:50 am
Give 100g bonus to whoever kills an enemy horse.

Yes, please.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on July 01, 2012, 03:34:14 am
Quote
So the cav metagame has arrived in NA too..

Been here a while. Kinda why I say "nerf cav" 24/7.

BECAUSE DAMMIT THEY NEED NERF! GET RID OF THEIR LEGS!!!

edit: and I actually find the idea of enemy horse bounties really cool. Gold per horse kill is kinda awesome. Probably impossible to implement, and might cause another holocaust or something, but still.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Sarpton on July 01, 2012, 07:07:53 am
Give 100g bonus to whoever kills an enemy horse.



Why does this not have more +1?!  I honestly would be thrilled with such a slight but delightful addition.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Perverz on July 01, 2012, 09:43:28 am
you guys are so anoying...when i was 2h all was complain about archers, as mauler was allway hear complayns about how many mauls is in game......now as cavl hear allways complains about xbows and cavlary.....
why dont u quit playing and start something else?
i never cry about anything...you r just unmature......
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: MaTtHiAs_M on July 01, 2012, 10:48:51 am
.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: IR_Kuoin on July 01, 2012, 12:37:50 pm
Thypical GK to downvote everything that has anythin to do with nerf for cav.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Bulzur on July 01, 2012, 02:30:40 pm
Reduce all mounted lance damage by 25 percent (including couching), and reduce all mounted xbow stats by 25 percent while you are at it.   Maybe consider a  reduction of the maneuver stat across every horse, but a small one.  Reduce mounted shield skill/shield coverage by a good amount.  I think that would be enough for a while.

This should do it.
Don't nerf their maneuver though. Just damage and force shield on horse could already do the trick.

But what about 1h cav ? You nerf the lance damage (fine), but not the 1h's ? (when it's easier to hit the head as a 1h cav than as a lancer, because of the initial reach)
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Gurnisson on July 01, 2012, 02:37:36 pm
Reduce mounted shield skill/shield coverage by a good amount.

Has been the biggest problem with the game for quite a while. :|
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: XXTNTXX on July 13, 2012, 10:23:30 pm
This game is called Mount & Blade
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Mlekce on July 13, 2012, 10:25:38 pm
i would only nerf lancers even more,cuz that class is totaly gay. Rest of cav is ok.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Gawin on July 13, 2012, 10:39:45 pm
Make everything back the way it used to be in in Warband. Fuck cut damage archery. Fuck slowly fired arrows. Fuck two shots with Arbalest. Everything was perfectly balanced. Cav was torn to shred by archers (like they should). Long Spears and Two Hands were torn to shreds by archers (like they should). Shielders wrecked archers (like they should). The only change necessary is making making the bow difficulty higher. That way you wont have shooting agi light armored whores. make it like 13 difficulty for long bow 10 for rus and horn and yumi 9 for tartar 8 for nomad 2 for bow 1 for short bow. That way archers would have less wpf and they wont be able to run like little girls
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: polkafranzi on July 13, 2012, 10:47:46 pm
Make everything back the way it used to be in in Warband. Fuck cut damage archery. Fuck slowly fired arrows. Fuck two shots with Arbalest. Everything was perfectly balanced. Cav was torn to shred by archers (like they should). Long Spears and Two Hands were torn to shreds by archers (like they should). Shielders wrecked archers (like they should). The only change necessary is making making the bow difficulty higher. That way you wont have shooting agi light armored whores. make it like 13 difficulty for long bow 10 for rus and horn and yumi 9 for tartar 8 for nomad 2 for bow 1 for short bow. That way archers would have less wpf and they wont be able to run like little girls

LOL

The "like they should" fails are so far from reality i'm surprised you are even on the same planet as the rest of us.

Perfectly balanced? lol man, you made my year.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: LordBerenger on July 13, 2012, 10:52:29 pm
Make everything back the way it used to be in in Warband. Fuck cut damage archery. Fuck slowly fired arrows. Fuck two shots with Arbalest. Everything was perfectly balanced. Cav was torn to shred by archers (like they should). Long Spears and Two Hands were torn to shreds by archers (like they should). Shielders wrecked archers (like they should). The only change necessary is making making the bow difficulty higher. That way you wont have shooting agi light armored whores. make it like 13 difficulty for long bow 10 for rus and horn and yumi 9 for tartar 8 for nomad 2 for bow 1 for short bow. That way archers would have less wpf and they wont be able to run like little girls

If ur talking about 2010 CRPG at its finest OKAY! Since everything was so OP it balanced eachother out. Agree with higher PD req. Also there should be a much bigger search for peeps using aimbots and that sort of shit.

Too bad it's just a dream and nothing devs would ''re-implement''
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Vkvkvk on July 13, 2012, 11:16:14 pm
This game is called Mount & Blade

This game is also called Mount & Blade.

Your point is?
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Adamar on July 13, 2012, 11:20:42 pm
Make everything back the way it used to be in in Warband. Fuck cut damage archery. Fuck slowly fired arrows. Fuck two shots with Arbalest. Everything was perfectly balanced. Cav was torn to shred by archers (like they should). Long Spears and Two Hands were torn to shreds by archers (like they should). Shielders wrecked archers (like they should). The only change necessary is making making the bow difficulty higher. That way you wont have shooting agi light armored whores. make it like 13 difficulty for long bow 10 for rus and horn and yumi 9 for tartar 8 for nomad 2 for bow 1 for short bow. That way archers would have less wpf and they wont be able to run like little girls

13, 10 powerdraw? do you even know what you're saying?
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Havoco on July 13, 2012, 11:24:59 pm
This game is called Mount & Blade

So if I made a game called rock and scissors rock should obviously be the best class, right?
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Tears of Destiny on July 13, 2012, 11:26:00 pm
Since everything was so OP it balanced eachother out.

Ah, this reminds me of the days when I joined a game and saw a wall of Huscarl shields, a sea of crushthrough knockdown barmaces, and a hurricane of throwing. Good times.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on July 14, 2012, 12:20:35 am
This game is also called Mount & Blade.

Your point is?

The point is that people bitch about cavalry and want it removed from the game, even though the title of the game "mount".  Being on a horse has obvious advantages, but it also has obvious disadvantages as well.  Just like every class in the game.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Vkvkvk on July 14, 2012, 12:43:04 am
The point is that people bitch about cavalry and want it removed from the game, even though the title of the game "mount".  Being on a horse has obvious advantages, but it also has obvious disadvantages as well.  Just like every class in the game.

I don't have a clue about people wanting to remove Cavalry from the game.

I still think Cavalry is an integral part of the game and will remain to be. Just don't mistake "integral part of the game" with "Has to be well over other classes in term of fighting abilities".

It's mostly the fact that as a cavalry, the obvious disadvantages can easily be taken care of with little effort.

As once mentionned, as an infantry without a shield, outside of a few long weapons out there, cavalry will stab your shit and archer will shoot you and effectively be your hard counter and all you can really do is spaz around hoping the arrows doesn't hit you or very dearly hope that while you're busy with 3 guys, that some guy zipping in and out of the battlefield at ridiculous speed on uneven terrain won't one hit kill you.

Meanwhile, as a Cavalry, they have no clear hard counter, all they have are defensive counters or deterrent if you like that word better. Arrows to the face of a shieldless infantry is not a deterrent, long spears and pikes that can be dodged by just going a few degrees off-course are a deterrent as he can just continue his course somewhere else and impact with the next infantry that's already busy fighting one too many people.

Don't even get me started on archers, unless the archer has some serious foresight and can literally see in the future, unless the horse is extremely close to the archer, the horse will easily just change course and dodge the arrow without a single problem because at the speed they go to, they're impossible to lead unless they're going in a straight line, but with the current maneuvrability values of horses, this is not the case.

I just hate the sheer power that Cavalry has while remaining quick and agile. I played Cavalry myself, given a level 30 and above build with a heirloomed horse that can turn on a dime on the most uneven and shitty god damned terrain the game has to offer quicker than infantry can even walk on it, it pretty much feels like you're an infantry on crack that's using some sort of 50str/100agi build, you do the most damage of any weapon class in the entire game and yet you remain mobile enough to dodge any sort of "counter" (Read: deterrent in the Cavalry's situation) there might be against you and in the off chance that you do get brought down because you screwed up, you still have all the chances on your side by dint of shitty terrain collision making it so you're on your ass UNDER the ground, horses absorbing hits for you or the rider just outright being launched several meters away without taking a single digit of damage or getting conveniently teleported away from where he got brought down, at which point he can begin his new life as a perfectly viable 18/18, 21/18, 18/21 infantry or whatever god damned build your cavalry guy might be.

One last thing that seals the deal to me is how you're not safe from Cavalry anywhere, not on roofs, not on elevations, not on steep cliffs, fucking nowhere. Horses are god damned mountain goats and will climb the worse fucking terrain known to man and will trample your ass to death while simultaneously setting a new record for how fast he got to the top of the Mt. Everest.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: polkafranzi on July 14, 2012, 12:58:33 am
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Havoco on July 14, 2012, 01:41:09 am
U know what would fix this? C SITE SPAM. 1 slot c sites plz.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: SixThumbs on July 14, 2012, 02:49:41 am
What about adding a toned down version of the Diplomacy feature where the more injured your horse is the slower it goes? Although it might encourage even more hyena/scavenger style cavalry.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on July 14, 2012, 04:48:34 am
Quote
Although it might encourage even more hyena/scavenger style cavalry.

I'll just cram more afk and peasant kills into my score before dying each round.

But seriously leave my fucking horses alone.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Gawin on July 14, 2012, 05:49:12 am
13, 10 powerdraw? do you even know what you're saying?
no such thing as running archers
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Gawin on July 14, 2012, 05:53:42 am
LOL

The "like they should" fails are so far from reality i'm surprised you are even on the same planet as the rest of us.

Perfectly balanced? lol man, you made my year.
Archers could actually kill in real life. One or tow shots could normally kill a horse. Taking an arrow while riding on a horse usually knocked a person off or killed them. English longbowmen killed heavily armored English knights with one to two shots, they should be able to kill, not just wound a person.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: Adamar on July 14, 2012, 05:53:53 am
no such thing as running archers

No such thing as aiming archers either. 2 slot bows need a shit load of wpf to be of any use.
Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: bruce on July 14, 2012, 08:46:27 am
English longbowmen killed heavily armored English knights with one to two shots

Then they got banned for TKing.

Although, yes, arrows actually kill unarmoured creatures. They don't go running off merrily while looking like a pincushion. It's just the excessive hp though, when you see an arabian run into a pike/spear and turn away it's equally laughable.

I mean, some changes could be made to compensate lowered HP, like horse not dying instantly bar running into pike/spear (so stabbing it in your head with a 1h = horseman's attack continues uninterrupted, you die regardless) etc. Or horse corpses knocking people down... so it is the spear, pike and ranged which are then proper "anti cavalry" weapons.


Title: Re: Nerf Cav
Post by: SixThumbs on July 14, 2012, 03:00:48 pm
Nerf cav!

Sorry, that's all I heard.