cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Miley on June 20, 2012, 07:50:37 am

Title: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Miley on June 20, 2012, 07:50:37 am
I have 46 body armor total. (+3 Black Lamellar Vest and +3 Leather Gloves) I also forgot to add that I have 21 Strength and 7 Ironflesh.

I had taken no other damage that round (except the swing that killed me).
(click to show/hide)

This is from Chucky's +3 Heavy Throwing Axe... with this much Power Throw:
(click to show/hide)

Really...
Title: Re: Can Anybody Say This Isn't Overpowered?
Post by: Arrers on June 20, 2012, 07:51:28 am
pita
Title: Re: Can Anybody Say This Isn't Overpowered?
Post by: Zisa on June 20, 2012, 07:55:20 am
Not OP.
Title: Re: Can Anybody Say This Isn't Overpowered?
Post by: Loar Avel on June 20, 2012, 07:55:50 am
This Isn't Overpowered
Title: Re: Can Anybody Say This Isn't Overpowered?
Post by: Taser on June 20, 2012, 07:56:53 am
Not OP.

This.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: callahan9119 on June 20, 2012, 08:15:38 am
I can put 4 to 5 HTA into an armor crutcher and they don't die with 4 PT.

Stop the calls for nerfs/omg OP to archer, throwing, cav, two-handed etc etc

The most OP thing in this game/mod is two handers...I don't scream for nerfs...I just deal with that shit.

Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Miley on June 20, 2012, 08:17:06 am
Archery isn't OP. Cavalry isn't OP, just bumps are. Two-handers aren't OP. And ETC isn't OP.

And you're a new player.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: callahan9119 on June 20, 2012, 08:20:58 am
Sorry I'm not a hipster who discovered the band first and can't comment on anything because I arrived too late.

I use throwing axes, they aint overpowered.

You wear light armor.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Zisa on June 20, 2012, 08:23:13 am
The funniest part...
Is where you went 32-2 or so with a great maul.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Everkistus on June 20, 2012, 08:23:32 am
Think about it mate. You got leather gloves and light armor. A guy who invested in throwing skill and wpf should be able to harm you with his cutting damage axes. If you would have stood a bit farther he wouldn't have even been able to hit you.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: callahan9119 on June 20, 2012, 08:25:14 am
The funniest part...
Is where you went 32-2 or so with a great maul.

Exactly, I like Miley, but for her to come here and whine about throwing is kinda lame, when she is beating my brains in with a heavy maul.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: [ptx] on June 20, 2012, 08:34:43 am
Damage is random, this is probably leaning towards the max.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Smoothrich on June 20, 2012, 08:43:55 am
Paul made it some months ago that the cut/armor soak nerfs that reduced the speed of melee combat (probably one of the reasons all ranged weapons double or triple the damage output of most melee classes) did NOT apply to throwing weapons, because famed cRPG cartoonist Cheapshot lobbied for it for months.  By the time Paul buffed throwing, Cheapshot long abandoned the game.  When I told him about it, he said "I don't believe you." and never logged in again, wasting his talents forever on shitty minecraft comics.

Throwing axes are some of the most OP shit in the game, bar none.  Ridiculous damage output, especially when loomed.  PT doesn't matter.  Throwing damage should be reduced all across the board by at least a third, and accuracy needs to be MUCH lower.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Vibe on June 20, 2012, 08:47:21 am
Buff throwing hammers, the more manly option for throwers.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Bobthehero on June 20, 2012, 08:49:57 am
As a STR player (not crutcher, you fuckhead) in occasionnal plate armor, I fear throwing axes, much much much more than any pierce damage throwing weapons.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Miley on June 20, 2012, 08:53:26 am
Umm, some of you are obviously missing the part where I said I'm wearing 46 body armor. That is not light armor. That's as much as one of the new Brigandines or the other red armor. I also have 7 Ironflesh.

Zisa, then learn to beat it. So what I got that score with a Great Maul? I actually block.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on June 20, 2012, 08:58:37 am
Tests.
Wear a brigandine and have him hit you again.
Or thank god for all the times that guy has ever missed.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Mlekce on June 20, 2012, 09:02:15 am
46 body is nothing. Get over 50 body armor,more you have,the better is.
But i must say throwing weapons deal big dmg even if you wear heavy armor. It should stay that way because as trower you have only 4-5 throwing weapons,so only few chances to kill something.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: bruce on June 20, 2012, 09:19:10 am
Also depends on relative speed bonuses, if he threw the axe from height at you, axes being slow the speed bonus extra is huge. Same if you run into it; the extra speed bonus makes more of a difference then if you were, eg. running towards a crossbow or bow.

Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: FrugFrug on June 20, 2012, 10:09:08 am
Judging by the picture, I'm pretty sure that axe hit your legs which have much less armor. (The axe hitboxes are so horrible it's hard to tell sometimes)

If it did hit your chest it would need a pretty decent speed bonus to do that much, I know you have high agility/athletics so if you were running at him when it hit it could do that much, especially if he was moving towards you too. (Looks like you have about 20-25 health left meaning he did 45-50 damage.)

Edit:
Chucky has 9 athletics, so if you ever are running at him while he runs at you, expect to get hit for a ton of damage.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Vkvkvk on June 20, 2012, 10:13:13 am
(not crutcher, you fuckhead)

What am I reading here, has Bob lost his mind?

Mentionning "STR build" (30/9 no less, maybe a bit more agi now) and "plate armor" and "not crutcher" in the same sentence? Good fucking lord.

Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Artyem on June 20, 2012, 10:17:21 am
As a near-primary thrower, I often find myself using 3 - 4 throwing axes on people in most medium to light armor when I have 37 strength and 12 power throw, in fact, I usually have to finish them off with my fist (which seems to do more damage than my throwing weapons.)

Even against an archer who has no iron flesh, is wearing a linen shirt and a straw hat, I can put up to four heavy throwing axes into their torso and just watch them dally over to cover and continue to shoot my teammates from a different angle, which I often find quite irritating considering that means I often dispatch six or seven into someone with Kuyak before they die.  And my most frequent killer is the dreaded two-hander in his heavy kuyak and Vaegir helmet screaming out in anger as I franticly throw axe after axe after axe into his torso and face before he finally approaches me and lops my head off with the hilt of his sword after doing a 360 jump spin that warps his hitbox to a dot of quantum proportions, making my projectile fly through his body while I use my last breath to curse inability to switch to melee mode because I'm apparently so scared by the wandering behemoth that my limbs are frozen to the point that I'm uncapable of lifting my axe.

But you know, maybe I'm just new.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: bruce on June 20, 2012, 10:24:02 am
It really depends on the speeds and such. Axes are one of the slowest throwing weapons (in regard to flight speed), so they also profit the most (or suffer the most, depending) from speed bonuses. So if you axe someone running or riding at you, the damage can be very massive due to the axe's slow flightspeed.

On the other hand, axe someone who is running away from you, and you will do negligible damage. Riding away from you? Waste of throwing axe, if you hit by some miracle.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Uumdi on June 20, 2012, 10:32:07 am
Throwing's fine, axes are the most appropriate ones too, aside from the stupid hitboxes.  If anything gets nerfed don't touch throwing - the ammo count is already sparse.  Remember when +3 Throwing Lances were 3 per stack?  There's a screenshot somewhere of an ATS guy standing on some ruins with like 6 corpses surrounding him, because you used to be able to carry a huscarl shield and 9 MW Throwing Lances.

Throwers add great variety to the game and are a respectable alternative to pure ranged.  One of the few classes that can still hybrid and do decent, and you need to throw 12 of your points into WM and PT in order to do it, sacrificing some IF, or IF in its entirety.  Dock the damage by 1 or 2, ok fine,  but 1/3 like smooth said?  Just delete them from the game registry at that point.  Disgusting suggestion.  Go fuck with the Rus Bow instead.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Bobthehero on June 20, 2012, 10:44:55 am
What am I reading here, has Bob lost his mind?

Mentionning "STR build" (30/9 no less, maybe a bit more agi now) and "plate armor" and "not crutcher" in the same sentence? Good fucking lord.

Bob is also playing with a 1h no sword and in first person >:U

And I do well on my alts, at least in my opinion, they're not strenght build.

Not everyone who use a strenght build is a crutcher, I've been using my build even when agi builds ruled, used to be a 24-12 shielder at first, because of the shitty ping :(
And I use my plate because, well I like the look of plate armor, the only reason why I am not using it is because I am level 33 and there's the fucking upkeep, sure I hate the nerfs its been getting, but eh, I'll deal with it and range on the forums nontheless.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Leshma on June 20, 2012, 10:53:01 am
Buff throwing hammers, the more manly option for throwers.

Do you have any idea how much those hurt?

I agree with Miley, to hell with this throwing bullshit.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Vibe on June 20, 2012, 10:54:09 am
Do you have any idea how much those hurt?

I agree with Miley, to hell with this throwing bullshit.

Yes I have. Tested it on my 10 PT thrower and throwing axes killed A LOT faster. Even people in medium/low armor took 2 hammers + (unloomed)
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Leshma on June 20, 2012, 11:02:19 am
That still hurts. I hate throwing therefore my stand is that it shouldn't hurt at all. Throwing is the lamest type of ranged class we have in game and I'll never support it. Even a monkey can be a thrower and call himself skilled player.

The most random thing in this game is throwing. Also stupid.

Like we don't have enough ranged crap flying around so we need strong throwers as well.

They say they are support, that pikes are support, shields are support, so are archers, xbowmen etc.

Only support in this mod is freaking melee weapon, no matter of which type because it's only used when those "dedicated" weapons mentioned in last sentence fail.

We have a lot of infantry but dedicated infantry is scarce. And I'm for hybrids but not ranged/melee or cav/melee hybrids because we have so many of them already. I want to see buff for melee/melee hybrids.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Vibe on June 20, 2012, 11:04:43 am
Still doesn't hurt nearly as much as xbow shots. Most of the times xbows take half of my health with a body shot, 22 STR, 7 IF and 63 body armor.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Bobthehero on June 20, 2012, 11:11:21 am
A thrower can throw pretty quickly however.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Artyem on June 20, 2012, 11:15:10 am
That still hurts. I hate throwing therefore my stand is that it shouldn't hurt at all. Throwing is the lamest type of ranged class we have in game and I'll never support it. Even a monkey can be a thrower and call himself skilled player.

The most random thing in this game is throwing. Also stupid.

Like we don't have enough ranged crap flying around so we need strong throwers as well.

They say they are support, that pikes are support, shields are support, so are archers, xbowmen etc.

Only support in this mod is freaking melee weapon, no matter of which type because it's only used when those "dedicated" weapons mentioned in last sentence fail.

We have a lot of infantry but dedicated infantry is scarce. And I'm for hybrids but not ranged/melee or cav/melee hybrids because we have so many of them already. I want to see buff for melee/melee hybrids.

Let's dance around in Heavy Kuyak obsorbing every blow from every weapon while twirling around our lightning fast two handed sword smiting every poor watersac that doesn't have a MW Danish.  Then let's switch to the Awlpike of Wrath that gives a +50 to DPS and denies all incoming attacks by being plunged into the ground creating a cataclysmic earthquake that swallows up everything around before we switch back to our Danish Greatsword that can be thrust across the ocean into the eye of every god damned peasent in a fifty mile radius, why?

(click to show/hide)

And perhaps I should clarify that I play primarily as a two hander, I just don't twirle around like a pixy having convulsions and I realize how over powered my class can be when the strength attribute is abused.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Leshma on June 20, 2012, 11:17:14 am
What we need is modified scoreboard which takes damage into account and not just kills/deaths ratio. That will show the true impact throwers and other ranged classes have on battlefield.

As 2H nub gaysworder I can steal a lot of kills, while as staffmen I really have to work for them. Very often I end with zero kills although I've badly damaged 5 or more opponents. Usually greedy cav finish them off.

I'm skeptical that those stats fasader show us from time to time are actual damage dealt. Most likely that's damage calculated from kills certain weapons scored.

If those stats show true damage why don't we have it shown in scoreboard?
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Vibe on June 20, 2012, 11:23:43 am
A thrower can throw pretty quickly however.

Xbow doesn't have wpf requirement, or any skill requirement at all, while throwing has a need for PT investement and a 13 wpf per PT requirement. Not to mention that it's easier to hit stuff at longer range with xbow.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: TurmoilTom on June 20, 2012, 11:26:15 am
Throwing is fine. Low accuracy, high damage, low ammo, high damage, hard to hybridize, high damage, low projectile speed, high damage... Oh, and quick times in between throws.

It all balances... itself... out...

...

Buff throwing.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Leshma on June 20, 2012, 11:33:42 am
Xbow doesn't have wpf requirement, or any skill requirement at all, while throwing has a need for PT investement and a 13 wpf per PT requirement. Not to mention that it's easier to hit stuff at longer range with xbow.

Xbow as siderm is broken since the start of cRPG.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Deltah on June 20, 2012, 11:34:55 am
Miley I still love you and all but I don't care how "masterworked" the floor tiles that you strap over your dress are. Buy a wooden handled hatchet from wall-mart, sharpen it against a grinding wheel, and then allow a fully grown working man to toss it into your chest, with whatever armor you see fit to wear upon your being. Then multiply this by at least five to account for the practiced nordic strongman throwing his hefty, razor sharp axes with the skills he has honed over the entire course of his life to accomplish this task alone. It half of the people commenting have actually ever tried to play a pure thrower, they can tell you that it takes weeks of practice, a strong build, and a bit of luck, to merely match any of these fools who pick up a danish and plate in the bargain bin at wall-martia. I don't want to hurt your feelings but I think this is just another case of "something was moderately effective against my own personal playstyle, so please nerf it!" syndrome. Miley, go create a pure thrower, mw some axes, and have a nice day! Otherwise I shall go on my two hander, buy a danish, and mash left click for ten consecutive minutes until I am the best player in all of crpg, because that is how the game works as of late. But yeah I guess I am just bad at this game so my logic doesn't matter or anything.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Bobthehero on June 20, 2012, 11:40:12 am
Miley I still love you and all but I don't care how "masterworked" the floor tiles that you strap over your dress are. Buy a wooden handled hatchet from wall-mart, sharpen it against a grinding wheel, and then allow a fully grown working man to toss it into your chest, with whatever armor you see fit to wear upon your being. Then multiply this by at least five to account for the practiced nordic strongman throwing his hefty, razor sharp axes with the skills he has honed over the entire course of his life to accomplish this task alone.

I'll take the challenge in plate armor, if only I had a suit :(

It's been said that plate armor could protect from early gun powder weapons, I'd be feeling extremely safe in it.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: bruce on June 20, 2012, 11:50:14 am
Well, throwing axes... try throwing an axe and seeing how often you hit with the sharp bit. Realistically a spear is more practical to throw.

Anyway, in game 1h swords and such also hurt armour very well, and no armour is protection vs horsemen's lances.  Arrows are also funny in the respect that they don't care about armour overly much, but on the other hand naked people are not incapacitated / killed by an arrow to the ribcage, and horses ride around comfortably with 2-3 arrows in them. And all helms are mostly worthless vs all ranged projectiles, which is even more nonsensical.

So, eh, yes. Lots and lots of nonsensical stuff.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Leshma on June 20, 2012, 11:53:38 am
You miss, your enemy keeps backpedaling (to avoid epic speed bonus), you keep throwing, pick up those axes you've thrown on the ground, keep throwing...

Also the more throwers are on the server, the easier for you to play because ammo is everywhere.

If you buff throwing, more throwers will play, which makes it a lot easier for throwers.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Artyem on June 20, 2012, 12:02:43 pm
You miss, your enemy keeps backpedaling (to avoid epic speed bonus), you keep throwing, pick up those axes you've thrown on the ground, keep throwing...

Also the more throwers are on the server, the easier for you to play because ammo is everywhere.

If you buff throwing, more throwers will play, which makes it a lot easier for throwers.

Yes, I can pick up the axes that I miss but that doesn't help the fact that I lose four or five of my throwing axes to kill one guy in leather that I can't get back until the next round.  Please do note that I have the same issue with jarids, javelins, hammers and just about everything else.

I've seen an archer take a throwing lance to the chest and he just ignored it and continued to shoot his bow with no problem.

Perhaps I should reiterate that i have 12 (twelve) power throw.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Deltah on June 20, 2012, 12:04:06 pm
I'll take the challenge in plate armor, if only I had a suit :(

It's been said that plate armor could protect from early gun powder weapons, I'd be feeling extremely safe in it.

Sounds like a plan to me. Bring some full plate over, a selection of early period gunpowder weapons, and a couple strongmen complete with axes, and we shall have a fun time turning your internal organs to jello with blunt trauma! :D
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Bobthehero on June 20, 2012, 12:09:46 pm
Yeah... no, there's a reason padding existed, its a pretty good anti blunt trauma armor, the gun will hurt like a bitch, probably incapacite the wearer, sure, but the axes will do fuck all, it wasn't a very popular weapon either way.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Leshma on June 20, 2012, 12:10:55 pm
Yes, I can pick up the axes that I miss but that doesn't help the fact that I lose four or five of my throwing axes to kill one guy in leather that I can't get back until the next round.  Please do note that I have the same issue with jarids, javelins, hammers and just about everything else.

Hit points are the most OP thing in this mod.

Peasant with 80 HP or more can survive things fully armored knight with 40 HP can't.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Slamz on June 20, 2012, 12:14:00 pm
I think chucky's answer of "4 lol" was laughing that you thought he only had 4 PT...  Unless he retired recently or respec'd since I last saw him, I'm pretty sure he has at least 7 PT (or else I have no idea what he's doing with his points -- he needs no PS and probably needs no WM because his armor is so light...so why only 4 PT?  I don't believe it).

I'd also suggest that your light armor and speed (the better to maul people with) worked against you as you no doubt gave Chucky an epic damage boost by running at him.

And really, a dedicated thrower hitting a mediocre armored opponent for 2/3rds health doesn't seem that OP to me.  I doubt you had to hit many people 3 times with your maul to kill them.  If two shotting needs nerfed, then we've got a lot of nerfing ahead of us.


Also, if he hits you in a limb, the damage is greatly reduced.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: bruce on June 20, 2012, 12:19:05 pm
Throwing is not nearly as effective as you imagine; the advancement of armour and tactics basically obsoleted throwing in the medieval battlefield. There were still Spanish Jinetes using javelins from horseback (to disrupt and harass infantry formations, and also because it is more effective from horseback), think that's pretty much it. Despite humans not being one-dimensional creatures irl and being able to throw things and fight perfectly well, throwing axes, spears were not carried by everyone in medieval times.

It would be reasonable if throwing spears/javelins and such were more effective then throwing axes and also cut; but also if armour was more protective. You're not going to stop a plated knight with two strong men throwing things at him. Else they'd have saved money making plate, weapons designed to fight plate and all that jazz by just taking sharpened hatchets.

And Leshma, yes and no, buff damage by 50% and armour ratings by 75% (of mail and up, not leather) and armour matters, suddenly, more then HP.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Leshma on June 20, 2012, 12:24:23 pm
I also doubt it's just 4 PT but if it is, it's broken. You see, 4 PT isn't proper hybridization. I can put that much if I decide to respec my main and I'll have my 2H build same as before.

Four points in throwing and let's say 80-90 in throwing is nothing. Main reason why I didn't put my 4 free points in throwing because I thought I couldn't hurt anyone. Guess I was wrong.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Miwiw on June 20, 2012, 12:25:21 pm
Not op....

It is probably also the highest damage he could get by throwing with his weapon. A 2h can also do low to non damage when he is about to glance, with a good swing he can take down a plate guy in 2 hits as well... so nah, hard to say this was op.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: EyeBeat on June 20, 2012, 12:52:58 pm
I never really have a problem with throwers unless it is a 2v1 or 3v1. 

I don't see why they should be nerfed at all.  They always seem to run away from me.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on June 20, 2012, 02:21:21 pm
pointless thread. There is absolutely no significance in taking one incident into account to judge how strong or weak damage from a weapon is, when the damage is calculated with a random factor.

WaltF4? Gief some average numbers! :P
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Zisa on June 20, 2012, 02:51:28 pm
Umm, some of you are obviously missing the part where I said I'm wearing 46 body armor. That is not light armor. That's as much as one of the new Brigandines or the other red armor. I also have 7 Ironflesh.

Zisa, then learn to beat it. So what I got that score with a Great Maul? I actually block.
Can't block a throwing axe, dunce. Also, you could have used those 7 points you put into IF and put them into agility as +3 agility and 1 athletics.

lamelar - not as good for dodging as light (i.e. fuck all) armor. It's medium, and it slows you down considerably.

I suppose we should nerf axe because your bedtowel covering did not absorb all the damage? Get hit with an arbalest in full plate and see an 8th of health left or so (30str 10 IF) and you might rethink how OP those axes are. Or, you might think 'game' sometimes the badguys win.

I've chased chucky down with agi builds and strength builds, agi being more likely to catch him of course, and I do not recall being one shot by him in a pilgrim disguise either.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Baggy on June 20, 2012, 02:57:08 pm
Not OP.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Gurnisson on June 20, 2012, 03:00:45 pm
Perhaps I should reiterate that i have 12 (twelve) power throw.

Well, you don't have 12 effective power throw, that's for sure. How much throwing wpf do you have and how much armor do you wear? My guess is that you've max got 8, probably like 6-7 :lol:
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: dynamike on June 20, 2012, 03:17:35 pm
Have played a lot of throwing on my main and alts. Most throwing is good for usually is stagger and anger the enemy until you take him down in melee.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on June 20, 2012, 03:21:39 pm
Throwing axes hurt alot, even do tons of damage or even one shot my horse. Throwing used to not do as much damage, it also seems to have gotten much more accurate. Not to mention throwers have tons of throwing weapons and can pick them up if they miss. Reduce damage or accuracy or how many they can carry.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: bruce on June 20, 2012, 03:26:20 pm
It is utterly impossible that a 4pt throwing axe oneshot anyone wearing lamellar, unless it was launched from castle walls at a running person for maximum speed bonus. The thrower is lying, most likely.

And yes, throwing axes do a lot of damage to a charging horse and virtually none to a horse running away because the flight speed of the weapon is so low they get a massive damage bonus when someone is charging at them. Slower flightspeed of weapon, larger the bonus.

Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 20, 2012, 03:27:30 pm
Chucky isn't a hybrid he is a dedicated thrower with 4 pt. I believe he is 12-27, so he has a lot of athletics for speed bonus and I would assume a lot of WM so he is pretty accurate.

People keep saying that throwing is really inaccurate, but that never seems to be the case when I see them, other then the half way accros the map shots that people try and make.

EDIT: On its own, throwing isn't even that OP, but when there are a lot of them on it becomes pretty obnoxious. Also that fact that throwing axes have a bonus to shield makes it even worse.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on June 20, 2012, 03:41:18 pm
It is utterly impossible that a 4pt throwing axe oneshot anyone wearing lamellar, unless it was launched from castle walls at a running person for maximum speed bonus. The thrower is lying, most likely.

And yes, throwing axes do a lot of damage to a charging horse and virtually none to a horse running away because the flight speed of the weapon is so low they get a massive damage bonus when someone is charging at them. Slower flightspeed of weapon, larger the bonus.

I have a champion destrieter with alot of hp and armor, running away it still takes atleast 1/3 of my horses health away if not more. I dont see how that is no damage.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: bruce on June 20, 2012, 03:43:42 pm
I've got a champion courser and 8 riding (well, had, before respec), in the rare event my horse gets hit by a throwing weapon from behind it's totally negligible.

Then again, it is light years faster then a destrier.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Vodner on June 20, 2012, 03:46:40 pm
Quote
Chucky isn't a hybrid he is a dedicated thrower with 4 pt. I believe he is 12-27, so he has a lot of athletics for speed bonus and I would assume a lot of WM so he is pretty accurate.
From what I have read, ranged speed bonus is purely one-way. It depends entirely on the speed of the victim relative to the missile (as if the missile was thrown from a stationary position).

Source (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,20187.msg287266.html#msg287266)

Since throwing axes are so slow, I would expect running into them would make you take a massive amount of extra damage.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: MrShine on June 20, 2012, 03:48:42 pm
The thing that makes throwing scary on the receiving end is you are usually up close and personal with the thrower taking a good speed bonus against a high damage weapon.  I tend to avoid closing on throwers since I currently don't have a shield.

But by no means are throwers OP.  I repeat - I don't like engaging with throwers, but I am not suggesting a nerf.  They have low ammo low accuracy and usually need 3 hits to kill anyone.  They simply don't last during a round, which is why I let some other unsuspecting peasant sop up projectiles early and then engage the throwers late in the round when they are low on ammo.

Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: TurmoilTom on June 20, 2012, 03:49:09 pm
From what I have read, ranged speed bonus is purely one-way. It depends entirely on the speed of the victim relative to the missile.

Source (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,20187.msg287266.html#msg287266)

Yes. This is why running toward someone with 9 athletics (or riding toward someone on a Courser, for example) while you throw something at him isn't going to increase your damage.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Zanze on June 20, 2012, 03:50:10 pm
Chucky is 12-27, so he does have 4PT. His axes ARE masterworked and I assume he does have about 154wpf in throwing.

Masterwork throwing axes are VERY innacurate at any distance other than in your face, any thrower can vouch to this. The saving grace behind them(the axes) is their extremely large hitbox and high damage. At +3 they do about 48 cut damage per throw. Now if you are standing still, this will do crap to you as your armor will probably soak it. However, given their high cut damage they are able to take advantage of your speed bonus. That is how horse headshots at full gallop get 1 shotted, or people take heavy damage. Running AWAY from the axe will also severely reduce the damage just as much as it would increase it when running toward it.

Also, Lemmy, my +0 destrier has been hit by a clanmates +3 throwing axe as it ran away. It lost a little less than 10% health. What story speak you?
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Phew on June 20, 2012, 04:09:33 pm
Damage from throwing is so variable. I took a Heavy Throwing Axe to the skull the other day (54 head armor), and it did about 12 damage, when it should have nearly killed me.

But for Miley to whine about throwing (which is pretty weak overall) while wielding the most BS OP weapon in the game is pretty hilarious.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Vodner on June 20, 2012, 04:10:48 pm
Quote
Now if you are standing still, this will do crap to you as your armor will probably soak it.
At 46 armor they will actually do an average of 34.5 damage with 4 PT and 172 wpf (assuming the calculator is still up to date).

If you were running towards the axe at 50% of its base speed (not sure how fast people are relative to throwing axes), you would be looking at a 216% damage boost. That gets factored in before armor, so punching in 1.5^1.9*47 (~101 cut) into the damage calculator gives an average damage of 100.5.

Even at 25% speed, you're still looking at an average of 64 (and as high as 78) cut.

I believe this works both ways. If you were running away at 50% speed and 46 armor, you would suffer no damage. At 25% speed, you would suffer an average of 9 damage.

Anybody more knowledgeable feel free to correct me if I have erred. Better yet, somebody test this in the duel server.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Billius_Maximus on June 20, 2012, 04:23:41 pm
I'm an 18/18 throwing hybrid build (6 IF, 6 PS, 6 PT, 6 Ath, 6 WM)
100 1h wpf
136 throwing wpf

The only 1 hit kill I have ever done with my unloomed heavy throwing axes is headshots / nakeds.
The average amount of axes it takes me to kill a player is ~3
The average amount of 2h swings it takes to kill me is ~1 (2 if I'm lucky)
I carry 9 axes, so assuming my accuracy is FLAWLESS (bahahahhaa) I will kill 3 people per round.

Explain to me how this is OP?
I like you Miley, you're pretty cool. Solid skill too. But seriously, just shut up.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Uumdi on June 20, 2012, 04:40:19 pm
I suggest an alternative.


Buff throwing.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: FrugFrug on June 20, 2012, 04:48:25 pm
I suggest an alternative.


Buff Stones.

Seriously, they were nerfed...
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Phew on June 20, 2012, 05:05:18 pm
It's also worth noting that a non-heirloomed crossbow/steel bolts (not even an arbalest) does about the same damage to 46 armor as +3 heavy throwing axes @4PT.

With vastly better accuracy.

With vastly longer range.

With 4X the ammo per stack.

With no WPF requirements.

With no skill point investment.

With half the upkeep per projectile.

If throwing is OP, crossbows must be friggin' lasers.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: bruce on June 20, 2012, 05:30:50 pm
I cannot backpedal instareload arbalest, please fix.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Turboflex on June 20, 2012, 05:35:21 pm
Throwing axes are some of the most OP shit in the game, bar none.  Ridiculous damage output, especially when loomed.  PT doesn't matter.  Throwing damage should be reduced all across the board by at least a third, and accuracy needs to be MUCH lower.

coming from a guy who's usually playing cav, the most OP class, whining about throwing, one of the few things that can actively counter horses.

some for Lemmy Winks QQing, who goes around 1 shotting people with his morning star.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Teeth on June 20, 2012, 05:36:39 pm
Rule No. 1 in balance discussions:
You have no right to complain about something being OP with a great maul in your hands.

I thought everybody knew that by now.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on June 20, 2012, 05:42:33 pm
If throwing weapons get nerfed they'll run the risk of being fucking useless.

The problem is that throwing weapons are retarded. They are shotguns--you throw them while on the move, or while jumping, from relatively close range. The low number or available projectiles to throw, combined with their inaccuracy, means that they need something going for them. It's simply not worth the effort to hit somebody with a thrown weapon if, after 8 misses, you finally score a hit only to cause 1/4 damage. At that rate, you won't get any fucking kills.

The thrown weapons mechanics are, uh, special. If they're gonna be this inaccurate, and give you so few tries to hit your target, then they better fucking do alot of damage relative to other weapons. Otherwise they'll just be a supplement to melee weapons, and just that.

Yeah, I know you can pick up and reuse thrown weapons, which can increase the number of tries you get to hit your target. It's not always practical, and there are many moments when the thrower is unable to get to used axes and he's just fucked. The weapons are generally thrown towards the enemy blob, and getting to them requires getting BEHIND ENEMY LINES DUN DUN DUN.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Bulzur on June 20, 2012, 05:48:07 pm
The only thing that caught my attention was the fact that a great maul user was complaining about a ranged class dealing too much damage.

Made my day.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: akapraf on June 20, 2012, 05:53:29 pm
throwing is op only if you have +32 lvl ( and only if you invest all you points in throwing ... i don't see to many players using a 100% throwing build )
but wait!!! if you think better all builds +32 lvl are OP
Edit: and Leshma if you think throwing is so easy pls make an alternative an put 3 screenshots with best of you'r scores and tell us how many maps did you play to manage to get  those 3 top scores
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Lichen on June 20, 2012, 06:24:05 pm
The fact that any thrower can manage to get kills in battle (not siege) is an achievement. Of course if a class that isn't 2h manages to NOT be completely useless of course it must be 'OP'. I've played many throwers and once someone is aware your chances go way down to hit them. Throwing isn't OP. The main ones who die to throwing on battle servers are idiot cav who don't yet understand that a big axe flung into their horse charging a thrower might be bad for the horses health (amazing I know). If you think it is OP go make a STF character and get on a battle server then come back and post your score topping pic....cause, you know, throwing is so 'OP'.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: San on June 20, 2012, 06:48:30 pm
I think throwing is fine, but I think they need to be a lot more careful when they throw and try to actually hit properly instead of throwing a bunch and retrieving them later. This may be difficult to code, but it would be cool to have it so if you throw the same weapon 2 times, it "breaks" and you can't use it again. That way, throwers don't just spam throw and hope for a lucky hit while they run around and scavenge for more.

This might be even harder to code, but it would be nice to have throwing weapons that hit the enemy can also be retrieved and don't contribute to it breaking.

This buffs throwers that can actually hit people and conserve their ammo, instead of throwing as fast as possible, and helps balance it against its low accuracy.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Zisa on June 20, 2012, 06:53:52 pm
I think throwing is fine, but I think they need to be a lot more careful when they throw and try to actually hit properly instead of throwing a bunch and retrieving them later. This may be difficult to code, but it would be cool to have it so if you throw the same weapon 2 times, it "breaks" and you can't use it again. That way, throwers don't just spam throw and hope for a lucky hit while they run around and scavenge for more.

This might be even harder to code, but it would be nice to have throwing weapons that hit the enemy can also be retrieved and don't contribute to it breaking.

This buffs throwers that can actually hit people and conserve their ammo, instead of throwing as fast as possible, and helps balance it against its low accuracy.
Devs can check, but as far a I can tell you are more likely to miss when spamming. Might even be throwing 'blanks'.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 20, 2012, 07:40:47 pm
I think throwing is fine, but I think they need to be a lot more careful when they throw and try to actually hit properly instead of throwing a bunch and retrieving them later. This may be difficult to code, but it would be cool to have it so if you throw the same weapon 2 times, it "breaks" and you can't use it again. That way, throwers don't just spam throw and hope for a lucky hit while they run around and scavenge for more.

This might be even harder to code, but it would be nice to have throwing weapons that hit the enemy can also be retrieved and don't contribute to it breaking.

This buffs throwers that can actually hit people and conserve their ammo, instead of throwing as fast as possible, and helps balance it against its low accuracy.

Or make it so anyone can pick up throwing weapons, but not throw them.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Hobb on June 20, 2012, 08:22:20 pm
As cav i fear nothing more than throwers. A champ courser on the move rarely takes 2 body shots from throwers. It is imo the best counter to lancer cav especially when they are in a group or otherwise protected.

But.....

A pure throwers playstyle makes them very vulnerable. I mean think about it, throwers are at there best when they are close enough to melee clashes to be accurate but far enough away so they dont get attacked... This area is exactly where cav get most of there kills.

I think most lancers can agree that they kill alot of throwers.

Throwing not OP, imo they should have more ammo
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Artyem on June 20, 2012, 09:19:57 pm
(click to show/hide)

I used to have more but they vanished!  This is what I see on a daily basis, except it's usually not just one axe in the head, it's five in their torso.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 20, 2012, 09:29:34 pm
(click to show/hide)

I used to have more but they vanished!  This is what I see on a daily basis, except it's usually not just one axe in the head, it's five in their torso.

Keep in mind that even though it looks like that is sticking out of his head, it was not registered as a headshot.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Artyem on June 20, 2012, 09:30:58 pm
Which is another problem with throwing, the hitboxes get warped around so much that when we do land a hit it usually doesn't do as much damage as you'd expect it to because it's probably not even hitting the part of the body it's sticking out of.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Rusty_Shacklefjord on June 20, 2012, 09:32:31 pm
To begin with, a pure thrower on the battlefield is completely unrealistic. I challenge anyone to name one type of pure-throwing warrior from history, aside from maybe cavemen with slings and rocks. There have been a lot of hybrids like vikings with throwing axes, greeks with javelins, zulu spear chuckers and ninjas with throwing stars, but none of them was all about throwing shit at the enemy. They either fought normally with their weapon and threw it when the time was right, or threw it immediately before the clash and went to fight with their primary weapon. THAT is how throwing weapons are used realistically.

In cRPG, throwers have limited ammo compared to other types of ranged, but realistically it's still too much. Nobody ever went to battle with 12 little axes strapped to their belt, but they're everywhere on the NA servers. I think EU players seriously underestimate how many of these pure throwers we have on NA. I can't remember the last time I saw someone with a heavy kuyak and danish greatsword, but I saw a dozen pure throwers before lunch.

As someone else mentioned, they can also easily share and pick up ammo, and often travel in groups of 2-3. These little clubs like to pick on helpless melee players and hang around the edge of brawls, bombarding people with a hail of axes. If you try to attack, they'll backpedal and scatter while chucking axes back at you. If you try to retreat, they'll run you down with their 9 athletics and endlessly recycled axes - any one of which is enough to kill or maim.

It's both unrealistic and unfun. There's really no excuse for throwing to continue being as ridiculous as it is.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Digglez on June 20, 2012, 09:44:07 pm
Chucky should print out Miley's post, frame it and hang it next to his computer for inspiration.

Go Thrower nation!


For all you 2h heroes, if you think throwing is so overpowered, put your money where your mouth is and respec throwing.  *Listens for crickets*
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Vodner on June 20, 2012, 09:52:01 pm
To begin with, a pure thrower on the battlefield is completely unrealistic. I challenge anyone to name one type of pure-throwing warrior from history, aside from maybe cavemen with slings and rocks. There have been a lot of hybrids like vikings with throwing axes, greeks with javelins, zulu spear chuckers and ninjas with throwing stars, but none of them was all about throwing shit at the enemy. They either fought normally with their weapon and threw it when the time was right, or threw it immediately before the clash and went to fight with their primary weapon. THAT is how throwing weapons are used realistically.
Weren't Roman velites used almost entirely for their javelins? I believe they carried melee weapons, but I don't believe they engaged in melee under normal circumstances.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Leshma on June 20, 2012, 09:53:45 pm
This is medieval battle simulator. At least it's trying to be...
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Artyem on June 20, 2012, 09:55:53 pm
Rusty, I'm having a hard time following your argument here.  In real life there is no such thing as a "pure build" because you didn't stop learning how to do things at the age of 45 (you were probably dead before that, but that's aside from the point) as most people then who fought in wars probably were capable of throwing a spear, using a sword, and also probably knew how to use a halberd.

Sure, there was no such thing as a "pure thrower" but there was also no such thing as a "pure two hander".

This isn't even a realism discussion, this is a whine thread because a two hander lost some health to a +3 heavy throwing axe, which is inaccurate as hell and often misses the hitbox that it was going for.  And yeah, throwers travel in packs because if you go alone you're going to chip out over half your arsenal to take down a guy with a two hander, but if you had a buddy or two you're minimizing the amount of ammo expelled from either person.

"helpless melee players" you could always travel with friends too, instead of going rambo with your 11 ironflesh 11 power strike bullshitery.  You also claim that they have an endless supply of recycled axes, which wouldn't happen if they were actually killing things as you can't yet remove a throwing axe from a dead body.  And if they actually do miss that much, then doesn't that just prove that they're too inaccurate and should probably just be left alone?  And most throwers that actually do damage don't have 9 athletics but run just about as fast as you do.

Two handers can swing their sword at the speed of light while running around with no weight restrictions thanks to how ridiculous the strength attribute is now, they can stab further than a polearm and accelerate faster than a one hander.  They don't even need to hit you with the blade, just the hilt is fine and it still delivers 2x as much damage as one throwing axe.

Two handers are both unrealistic and unfun.  There's really no excuse for two handers to continue being as ridiculous as they are.


EDIT:

Well, you don't have 12 effective power throw, that's for sure. How much throwing wpf do you have and how much armor do you wear? My guess is that you've max got 8, probably like 6-7 :lol:

I wear a nomad vest and light everything else with around 113 wpf in throwing, which isn't alot but when you consider that I wear light armor i don't really need much more.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Zanze on June 20, 2012, 10:44:15 pm
To begin with, a pure thrower on the battlefield is completely unrealistic. I challenge anyone to name one type of pure-throwing warrior from history, aside from maybe cavemen with slings and rocks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velites
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peltast

Also, just for the record, when in need of recruits for your army would it be easier to arm someone to the teeth or give a man a piece of wood as a shield and 3 sharpened sticks and say "run in, throw this, and then stand in front of the real soldiers so you protect them from arrows or javelins or whatnot" Skirmishers were, and are used in every single army to date(Maybe less now in modern warfare, but light infantry still exists). Romans and Vikings threw because it was effective, that is true. They doubled as heavy infantry, that is true. But what about the ones who could not afford mail armor? Or a good weapon? They threw whatever they could find at the enemy.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 20, 2012, 10:55:04 pm
I wear a nomad vest and light everything else with around 113 wpf in throwing, which isn't alot but when you consider that I wear light armor i don't really need much more.

Actually you do, you need 13 or 14 wpf (i forget) per PT, so if you only have 113 you only get a bonus of 8 PT.

This should explain why you can't aim for shit and your throwing weapons don't do as much damage as you think they would.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: robert_namo on June 20, 2012, 11:16:17 pm
Just wait till they make my nodachi throwable.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Miley on June 20, 2012, 11:21:13 pm
As a near-primary thrower, I often find myself using 3 - 4 throwing axes on people in most medium to light armor when I have 37 strength and 12 power throw, in fact, I usually have to finish them off with my fist (which seems to do more damage than my throwing weapons.)

Even against an archer who has no iron flesh, is wearing a linen shirt and a straw hat, I can put up to four heavy throwing axes into their torso and just watch them dally over to cover and continue to shoot my teammates from a different angle, which I often find quite irritating considering that means I often dispatch six or seven into someone with Kuyak before they die.  And my most frequent killer is the dreaded two-hander in his heavy kuyak and Vaegir helmet screaming out in anger as I franticly throw axe after axe after axe into his torso and face before he finally approaches me and lops my head off with the hilt of his sword after doing a 360 jump spin that warps his hitbox to a dot of quantum proportions, making my projectile fly through his body while I use my last breath to curse inability to switch to melee mode because I'm apparently so scared by the wandering behemoth that my limbs are frozen to the point that I'm uncapable of lifting my axe.

But you know, maybe I'm just new.

That's because throwing is broken. A 4 PT person does more than a 12 PT person? Plus you're lacking WPF.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Slamz on June 20, 2012, 11:23:03 pm
The person to ask would be Chestaclese.  Dunno what his build is but he's worlds better at throwing than Chucky (although I don't think Chucky's problem is his build so much as his apparent refusal to stop moving before throwing... it's a big accuracy penalty to throw on the move).

My current hybrid:
24/12
5 PT
4 WM
107 throwing wpf

Leaving me with enough for 8 PS, 8 IF, 4 athletics and 106 wpf for polearm.

It's really your wpf that suffers from hybrid throwing.  107 is exactly the amount I need for PT 5 with my armor (heavy kuyak, nordic warlord helm, mail mittens, mail chausses).

I do think hybrid thrower is worth it but mostly for horses.  It's useful against people but accuracy is kind of a crapshoot and plate crutchers will laugh it off.  Don't plan on being a hybrid thrower with less than 100 wpf in throwing unless you wear crap armor.

But it deals fantastic damage to coursers.

Miley, with that armor, would actually do well as a hybrid thrower.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Miley on June 20, 2012, 11:25:52 pm
Can't block a throwing axe, dunce. Also, you could have used those 7 points you put into IF and put them into agility as +3 agility and 1 athletics.

lamelar - not as good for dodging as light (i.e. fuck all) armor. It's medium, and it slows you down considerably.

I suppose we should nerf axe because your bedtowel covering did not absorb all the damage? Get hit with an arbalest in full plate and see an 8th of health left or so (30str 10 IF) and you might rethink how OP those axes are. Or, you might think 'game' sometimes the badguys win.

I've chased chucky down with agi builds and strength builds, agi being more likely to catch him of course, and I do not recall being one shot by him in a pilgrim disguise either.

All you do is Agility only builds and spam people because you can't block. You're an easy out.
Title: Re: If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?
Post by: Miley on June 20, 2012, 11:29:24 pm
4 PT and 9 Athletics and two-shotting? Yeah, that's not OP, okay... I was at the same level as Chucky (ground level). I've had a thrower, so I'm not speaking blindly. Great Maul is also not OP--you can spam it easily if you know how, which isn't hard either.