If This Isn't Ovpowered, Why Isn't it?

[Artyem]

That still hurts. I hate throwing therefore my stand is that it shouldn't hurt at all. Throwing is the lamest type of ranged class we have in game and I'll never support it. Even a monkey can be a thrower and call himself skilled player.

The most random thing in this game is throwing. Also stupid.

Like we don't have enough ranged crap flying around so we need strong throwers as well.

They say they are support, that pikes are support, shields are support, so are archers, xbowmen etc.

Only support in this mod is freaking melee weapon, no matter of which type because it's only used when those "dedicated" weapons mentioned in last sentence fail.

We have a lot of infantry but dedicated infantry is scarce. And I'm for hybrids but not ranged/melee or cav/melee hybrids because we have so many of them already. I want to see buff for melee/melee hybrids.

Let's dance around in Heavy Kuyak obsorbing every blow from every weapon while twirling around our lightning fast two handed sword smiting every poor watersac that doesn't have a MW Danish.  Then let's switch to the Awlpike of Wrath that gives a +50 to DPS and denies all incoming attacks by being plunged into the ground creating a cataclysmic earthquake that swallows up everything around before we switch back to our Danish Greatsword that can be thrust across the ocean into the eye of every god damned peasent in a fifty mile radius, why?

(click to show/hide)

Because two handers aren't OP enough, no no no, we have to be capable of carrying around two masterwork weapons that can be swung at the same approximate speed while still being capable of being hit a dozen times by others, but they don't do damage to your 10 ironflesh 60+ armor do they?  So when a class rolls around that is hardly played in contrast to anything else you have to cry and complain that it can break through your steel foreskin and do that small sliver of damage that's needed to take down nearly any person in the game these days.  To single handedly take on just about anyone I encounter, I have to dispatch over 75% of my arsenal to kill them (not counting misses, which isn't frequent at a short range) which I find fucking ridiculous considering I can easily be one shotted by the hilt of a danish greatsword. 

And perhaps I should clarify that I play primarily as a two hander, I just don't twirle around like a pixy having convulsions and I realize how over powered my class can be when the strength attribute is abused.

[Leshma]

What we need is modified scoreboard which takes damage into account and not just kills/deaths ratio. That will show the true impact throwers and other ranged classes have on battlefield.

As 2H nub gaysworder I can steal a lot of kills, while as staffmen I really have to work for them. Very often I end with zero kills although I've badly damaged 5 or more opponents. Usually greedy cav finish them off.

I'm skeptical that those stats fasader show us from time to time are actual damage dealt. Most likely that's damage calculated from kills certain weapons scored.

If those stats show true damage why don't we have it shown in scoreboard?

[Vibe]

A thrower can throw pretty quickly however.

Xbow doesn't have wpf requirement, or any skill requirement at all, while throwing has a need for PT investement and a 13 wpf per PT requirement. Not to mention that it's easier to hit stuff at longer range with xbow.

[TurmoilTom]

Throwing is fine. Low accuracy, high damage, low ammo, high damage, hard to hybridize, high damage, low projectile speed, high damage... Oh, and quick times in between throws.

It all balances... itself... out...

...

Buff throwing.

(click to show/hide)

Also, nerf level 34-2h build-great maul-spamming-Miley

(click to show/hide)

Although, honestly, I'm not much worse

(click to show/hide)

cause I own a +3 Great Maul

(click to show/hide)

And a +3 Mallet.

[Leshma]

Xbow doesn't have wpf requirement, or any skill requirement at all, while throwing has a need for PT investement and a 13 wpf per PT requirement. Not to mention that it's easier to hit stuff at longer range with xbow.

Xbow as siderm is broken since the start of cRPG.

[Deltah]

Miley I still love you and all but I don't care how "masterworked" the floor tiles that you strap over your dress are. Buy a wooden handled hatchet from wall-mart, sharpen it against a grinding wheel, and then allow a fully grown working man to toss it into your chest, with whatever armor you see fit to wear upon your being. Then multiply this by at least five to account for the practiced nordic strongman throwing his hefty, razor sharp axes with the skills he has honed over the entire course of his life to accomplish this task alone. It half of the people commenting have actually ever tried to play a pure thrower, they can tell you that it takes weeks of practice, a strong build, and a bit of luck, to merely match any of these fools who pick up a danish and plate in the bargain bin at wall-martia. I don't want to hurt your feelings but I think this is just another case of "something was moderately effective against my own personal playstyle, so please nerf it!" syndrome. Miley, go create a pure thrower, mw some axes, and have a nice day! Otherwise I shall go on my two hander, buy a danish, and mash left click for ten consecutive minutes until I am the best player in all of crpg, because that is how the game works as of late. But yeah I guess I am just bad at this game so my logic doesn't matter or anything.

[Bobthehero]

Miley I still love you and all but I don't care how "masterworked" the floor tiles that you strap over your dress are. Buy a wooden handled hatchet from wall-mart, sharpen it against a grinding wheel, and then allow a fully grown working man to toss it into your chest, with whatever armor you see fit to wear upon your being. Then multiply this by at least five to account for the practiced nordic strongman throwing his hefty, razor sharp axes with the skills he has honed over the entire course of his life to accomplish this task alone.

I'll take the challenge in plate armor, if only I had a suit

It's been said that plate armor could protect from early gun powder weapons, I'd be feeling extremely safe in it.

[bruce]

Well, throwing axes... try throwing an axe and seeing how often you hit with the sharp bit. Realistically a spear is more practical to throw.

Anyway, in game 1h swords and such also hurt armour very well, and no armour is protection vs horsemen's lances.  Arrows are also funny in the respect that they don't care about armour overly much, but on the other hand naked people are not incapacitated / killed by an arrow to the ribcage, and horses ride around comfortably with 2-3 arrows in them. And all helms are mostly worthless vs all ranged projectiles, which is even more nonsensical.

So, eh, yes. Lots and lots of nonsensical stuff.

[Leshma]

You miss, your enemy keeps backpedaling (to avoid epic speed bonus), you keep throwing, pick up those axes you've thrown on the ground, keep throwing...

Also the more throwers are on the server, the easier for you to play because ammo is everywhere.

If you buff throwing, more throwers will play, which makes it a lot easier for throwers.

[Artyem]

You miss, your enemy keeps backpedaling (to avoid epic speed bonus), you keep throwing, pick up those axes you've thrown on the ground, keep throwing...

Also the more throwers are on the server, the easier for you to play because ammo is everywhere.

If you buff throwing, more throwers will play, which makes it a lot easier for throwers.

Yes, I can pick up the axes that I miss but that doesn't help the fact that I lose four or five of my throwing axes to kill one guy in leather that I can't get back until the next round.  Please do note that I have the same issue with jarids, javelins, hammers and just about everything else.

I've seen an archer take a throwing lance to the chest and he just ignored it and continued to shoot his bow with no problem.

Perhaps I should reiterate that i have 12 (twelve) power throw.

[Deltah]

I'll take the challenge in plate armor, if only I had a suit

It's been said that plate armor could protect from early gun powder weapons, I'd be feeling extremely safe in it.

Sounds like a plan to me. Bring some full plate over, a selection of early period gunpowder weapons, and a couple strongmen complete with axes, and we shall have a fun time turning your internal organs to jello with blunt trauma!

[Bobthehero]

Yeah... no, there's a reason padding existed, its a pretty good anti blunt trauma armor, the gun will hurt like a bitch, probably incapacite the wearer, sure, but the axes will do fuck all, it wasn't a very popular weapon either way.

[Leshma]

Yes, I can pick up the axes that I miss but that doesn't help the fact that I lose four or five of my throwing axes to kill one guy in leather that I can't get back until the next round.  Please do note that I have the same issue with jarids, javelins, hammers and just about everything else.

Hit points are the most OP thing in this mod.

Peasant with 80 HP or more can survive things fully armored knight with 40 HP can't.

[Slamz]

I think chucky's answer of "4 lol" was laughing that you thought he only had 4 PT...  Unless he retired recently or respec'd since I last saw him, I'm pretty sure he has at least 7 PT (or else I have no idea what he's doing with his points -- he needs no PS and probably needs no WM because his armor is so light...so why only 4 PT?  I don't believe it).

I'd also suggest that your light armor and speed (the better to maul people with) worked against you as you no doubt gave Chucky an epic damage boost by running at him.

And really, a dedicated thrower hitting a mediocre armored opponent for 2/3rds health doesn't seem that OP to me.  I doubt you had to hit many people 3 times with your maul to kill them.  If two shotting needs nerfed, then we've got a lot of nerfing ahead of us.


Also, if he hits you in a limb, the damage is greatly reduced.

[bruce]

Throwing is not nearly as effective as you imagine; the advancement of armour and tactics basically obsoleted throwing in the medieval battlefield. There were still Spanish Jinetes using javelins from horseback (to disrupt and harass infantry formations, and also because it is more effective from horseback), think that's pretty much it. Despite humans not being one-dimensional creatures irl and being able to throw things and fight perfectly well, throwing axes, spears were not carried by everyone in medieval times.

It would be reasonable if throwing spears/javelins and such were more effective then throwing axes and also cut; but also if armour was more protective. You're not going to stop a plated knight with two strong men throwing things at him. Else they'd have saved money making plate, weapons designed to fight plate and all that jazz by just taking sharpened hatchets.

And Leshma, yes and no, buff damage by 50% and armour ratings by 75% (of mail and up, not leather) and armour matters, suddenly, more then HP.