cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: ZigZag on June 13, 2012, 02:31:23 am
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Most high leveled players are going to hate this thread, but I'm still going to voice my opinion.
Leveling in C-RPG is broken and needs a fix.
It takes several weeks to become level 31 (if you do have a life), it takes double that + slightly more to hit 32. Afterwards, it becomes an outright joke.
Heirloomed items provide raw power / stats. Playing this game years after you have obtained all your heirloomed gear (surpassing level 31) also provides raw power / stats.
I do not agree for what heirlooms stand for (which are obviously stronger than the default weapons), but the leveling system that has no cap is an outright worse example than that.
I believe heirlooms should be a cosmetic feature and players who play this mod for a long period of time should be rewarded with something cosmetic rather than raw strength, weather it be you moving slightly faster because of that extra point in agility or your ability to ride a better horse because you can afford that extra point in horse riding that wouldn't be available to you otherwise.
Titles would be a sufficient reward, that is an example of "cosmetic' feature.
There should be a firm cap in levels. Weather it be 30 or 31, let the community decide. As long as it is obtainable within weeks or at least within a month of playing, I understand this is the "RPG" in "C-RPG" but having no level cap just provides more and more raw stats / power to players with more free time.
It is silly to reward those who are already skilled (hopefully) by the time of hitting level 35 (which takes a good year at least, if not months of non-stop playing) with EXTRA stats which makes them even more powerful than the rest.
I know many would disagree to defend their point of view in order to maintain all of their extra stats that they have worked long and hard to obtain.
But I, myself, who owns over 23 heirloom points worth of items and am disagreeing with what they represent.
Give me cosmetics that would show others how long I've played this mod rather than raw power to bash new player's skulls in and discourage them from continuing playing this mod.
Now, I know there are players in this mod that have worked hard and long to keep their players are maximum stats / power, give them something in compensation, maybe gold, heirloom points, or a title / something cosmetic.
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Meh, I have...like I dunno fuck all looms, Im always giving shit away, making crappy trades, it doesnt matter, If you cant rape whoever you like at level 30ish and a decent build, no looms, then tbh you probably never will. Dont much care what ppl do, I will continue to get bored after a few gens, trade of my looms for something else, and continue to do w.e, it's a game for fun, if tryhards want to get to level 35 with a maxed build to gain an advantage, just take a leaf from my book: Just laugh at them each time they die :D
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lvl 34+ won't make 4+man ganging you die on their own. You may well be 27 lvl and beat those guys. 34+ is just cosmetics. It allows you to get the build you want, better build than anybody has, but it is enough that during the battle you will get random arrow and all your additional HP is gone. That advantage is reduced then. Also rain slows down all the agi_fast+ high levels so the difference isn't so big.
high levels are important mostly on duel server but during the battle it is not the level that makes you a killing machine.
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http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,33868.0.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,33868.0.html)
There you go one thread per day is enough.
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Meh, I have...like I dunno fuck all looms, Im always giving shit away, making crappy trades, it doesnt matter, If you cant rape whoever you like at level 30ish and a decent build, no looms, then tbh you probably never will. Dont much care what ppl do, I will continue to get bored after a few gens, trade of my looms for something else, and continue to do w.e, it's a game for fun, if tryhards want to get to level 35 with a maxed build to gain an advantage, just take a leaf from my book: Just laugh at them each time they die :D
Laughing at them when they die doesn't balance the game, putting a firm cap does. They have worked hard to reach level 35 and to remove it without compensation would really be a deal breaker for them.
You know what's funny? That even level 35 isn't a level cap in this game. it is possible to reach level 36. And even 36 isn't the level cap.
And if you are to say that "eh, lvl 35 isn't a big deal, my balls are bigger, I'll kill them anyway."
That's your pride talking, pride doesn't balance games, logic does.
Level 35 is a good 4-5 levels ahead of the average player, (lvls 30-31).
4-5 levels IS a big deal, in terms of balance.
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Make a good weapon balance and then talk about balancing builds lol.
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http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,33868.0.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,33868.0.html)
There you go one thread per day is enough.
If you read carefully, you'll realize the two threads have different subjects. One is about nerfing heirlooms, another is about putting a level cap in C-RPG.
Guess which one this is.
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Took me bout 4-5 days recently to get lvl 1-31 although for 2-3 days iirc there were Double XP lol. Nonetheless i'm lvl 29 atm and it's not that hard to lvl up. Just pray u get x5 and fight well.
Also i just noticed we posted right at the very same second
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Make a good weapon balance and then talk about balancing builds lol.
Weapon balance can be a tricky subject when there are so many weapons within this mod, many players would disagree which weapon is more powerful than another, thus causing endless amounts of discussion / arguments.
This is not a tricky subject. This is like whacking a fly which has been sitting on your nose for the past several years.
Putting a firm level cap, compensating those who have leveled above the cap'd level and done deal.
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Took me bout 4-5 days recently to get lvl 1-31 although for 2-3 days iirc there were Double XP lol. Nonetheless i'm lvl 29 atm and it's not that hard to lvl up. Just pray u get x5 and fight well.
Also i just noticed we posted right at the very same second
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Ah, but have you reached level 32? 33? 34? 35? 36? 50? ...Do you get my point?
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I think heirlooms are fine...its only about a 10% boost in 99% of cases. Heirlooms are really only truly effective in the other 1%, say, mail mittens. They move up to +8 and it really is night and day. Otherwise...really no difference.
I had a +3 Military Hammer long ago as my first +3 and I could barely match a 0.5 k/d ratio. About a month or 2 ago I was a shielder again using a +0 War Sword and I was topping the charts for some time with absurd scores like 40/15(siege) or 18/4(battle). Skill does more than heirlooms ever will. I can say right now, Miley or Saul or Phyrex or Tor with peasant clothes and a scythe could destroy me any day even if I had a loomed milanese armor set and a weapon of my choice loomed as well. (If you take glancing out of the equation and just let her do 1hp of damage per hit)
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But sometimes you kill high levels and you don't even know these guys are 33, 34 or so. Lvl doesn't make players good. It helps but better player is better. It doesn't make such a difference I guess.
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Well congrats Zig zag you started another pointless discussion which will take the time of the people who are going to post here and the only thing that will change through this is Nothing
And even if the leveling system gets changed now only more of these discussions will come about people who want the old system back :rolleyes:
Cant you simply accept that the majority seems to be against it? Otherwise devs would have changed it earlier already.
just deal with it.
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Ah, but have you reached level 32? 33? 34? 35? 36? 50? ...Do you get my point?
Nope, and yeah but the thing is devs wants you to retire (AFAIK) so that's why the cap is so high and takes so long to reach after lvl 31.
And as for heirlooms...meh. It makes certain weapons/playstyles effective and well makes it unique.
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scythe could destroy me any day
Scythe is a very good weapon. Never underestimate it.
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But sometimes you kill high levels and you don't even know these guys are 33, 34 or so. Lvl doesn't make players good. It helps but better player is better. It doesn't make such a difference I guess.
A single point within stats can let you outrun a player with pure speed, such as athletics.
A single point within stats can mean you survive with 1 health point left after taking a blow.
A single point within stats can mean you kill a player with 1 hit rather than 2 hits.
A singe point within stats can mean you ride an armored horse rather than an unarmored one.
A single point within stats can mean your shield doesn't break within 5 hits but rather 6 hits.
That is a SINGLE point. Now, multiply that by 3 for EVERY level the player surpasses you.
It is a subtle unbalance within the game, just because you don't know what level the player is, doesn't balance the game.
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tldr version plz
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A single point within stats can let you outrun a player with pure speed, such as athletics.
A single point within stats can mean you survive with 1 health point left after taking a blow.
A single point within stats can mean you kill a player with 1 hit rather than 2 hits.
A singe point within stats can mean you ride an armored horse rather than an unarmored one.
A single point within stats can mean your shield doesn't break within 5 hits but rather 6 hits.
That is a SINGLE point. Now, multiply that by 3 for EVERY level the player surpasses you.
It is a subtle unbalance within the game, just because you don't know what level the player is, doesn't balance the game.
You haven't learned 1 thing about this game yet.
It has so many strange random factors that you can have million PS and enemies will survive.
You may have million armour and you will die from 1-2 hits
You may have more athletics and lighter gear but on similar terrain your enemy will run a lot faster
You are damn unlucky and you can't do anything. Seriously getting knocked down by some cav that you couldn't avoid because archer shot you or friendlies blocked you or whateva and dying on the ground ebcause there are a few enemies inc.
All the damn formulas have some random factors and your 1 more athletics or 5 more HP won't change it.
It is a subtle unbalance within the game, just because you don't know what level the player is, doesn't balance the game.
I hit the enemy until he is dead or I am dead. I don't give a simple fuck about his level, if he wants to piss or it he is thirsty. I don't care if he is tired, ill, happy, warmed up etc. I don't care about his mouse, screen and PC.
There are many more important factors that make you kill/die
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I agree completely. Players with a very high level and improved weapons and, especially, armour might discourage new players. The levelling process is slower for them as well. I never liked MMO's for the fact of being at a disadvantage against players who already had much better equipment.
cRPG is how Native should have been. The devs have accomplished what those in TaleWorlds never have after so many patches. But I agree that heirlooms are a disadvantage.
I think that the mod should let you play whichever class you liked (like it does now), without enhanced items. That way it would be the same for everyone (like Native but much better).
Nevertheless, it is a bit too late for this suggestion, since the majority of players have many heirlooms, including the devs and admins, and I'm not sure they all agree.
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Leveling in this game is painful experience. Good thing is that it's fun because game isn't some grindy and boring MMORPG bullshit.
Looms are OP, levels are OP as well but it's not like they fall from the sky.
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You haven't learned 1 thing about this game yet.
It has so many strange random factors that you can have million PS and enemies will survive.
You may have million armour and you will die from 1-2 hits
You may have more athletics and lighter gear but on similar terrain your enemy will run a lot faster
You are damn unlucky and you can't do anything. Seriously getting knocked down by some cav that you couldn't avoid because archer shot you or friendlies blocked you or whateva and dying on the ground ebcause there are a few enemies inc.
All the damn formulas have some random factors and your 1 more athletics or 5 more HP won't change it.I hit the enemy until he is dead or I am dead. I don't give a simple fuck about his level, if he wants to piss or it he is thirsty. I don't care if he is tired, ill, happy, warmed up etc. I don't care about his mouse, screen and PC.
There are many more important factors that make you kill/die
If I had a million armor and million hitpoints, I would be a walking god amongst mortals. And if I had a million power throw, I could throw my rock and knock out the most skilled player in this game.
You sir are either very stupid or trolling.
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After you get your stuff +3 and high level I expect you to be disappointed because these aren't the most important factors.
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I agree completely. Players with a very high level and improved weapons and, especially, armour might discourage new players. The levelling process is slower for them as well. I never liked MMO's for the fact of being at a disadvantage against players who already had much better equipment.
cRPG is how Native should have been. The devs have accomplished what those in TaleWorlds never have after so many patches. But I agree that heirlooms are a disadvantage.
I think that the mod should let you play whichever class you liked (like it does now), without enhanced items. That way it would be the same for everyone (like Native but much better).
Nevertheless, it is a bit too late for this suggestion, since the majority of players have many heirlooms, including the devs and admins, and I'm not sure they all agree.
no looms=game is dead
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You can't have million HP, you can have 105 HP. But if you're noob 105 HP and greatest loomed armor money can buy won't help you in 1vs1 situation against skilled peasant with a club/staff/whatever.
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If I had a million armor and million hitpoints, I would be a walking god amongst mortals. And if I had a million power throw, I could throw my rock and knock out the most skilled player in this game.
You sir are either very stupid or trolling.
Do you fucking know what exaggeration is ?
Imagine that I have 6IF and 65 body armour 57 head armour and 55 leg armour and usually I die after1-3 hits. Sometimes it is so fucking annoying and makes no sense but I accept that huge amount of armour that I have doesn't protect me. Get to know what exaggeration is and finally accept that I didn't mean you had to have million hp to see what would happen.
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If I had a million armor and million hitpoints, I would be a walking god amongst mortals. And if I had a million power throw, I could throw my rock and knock out the most skilled player in this game.
You sir are either very stupid or trolling.
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at last 3 decent players and you are fucked up
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Leveling in this game is painful experience. Good thing is that it's fun because game isn't some grindy and boring MMORPG bullshit.
Looms are OP, levels are OP as well but it's not like they fall from the sky.
Just because they are hard to obtain, doesn't make it okay.
Like I said, the rewards could be cosmetic, that is an option. Heirloomed items try to replicate "rare" items that players and trade with other players in return for gold and other goods. It doesn't have to provide raw stats, it could look somewhat better than an unheirloomed one, (different weapon skin perhaps) and that is enough motivation for someone to keep playing.
Playing this game should be a matter of fun and progression. But the progression of power / stats needs to have a finish line at some point or else it's a broken system.
Progression could continue to a cosmetic feature, where you can unlock certain titles and looks for your characters.
However, having absolutely NO level cap, is completely.. foolish to put at least.
There is no SET or BASE, it's just the more you play the more power you get, so play.. play... days, months, years, and become the most powerful soldier out there.
That is not right.
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Do you fucking know what exaggeration is ?
Imagine that I have 6IF and 65 body armour 57 head armour and 55 leg armour and usually I die after1-3 hits. Sometimes it is so fucking annoying and makes no sense but I accept that huge amount of armour that I have doesn't protect me. Get to know what exaggeration is and finally accept that I didn't mean you had to have million hp to see what would happen.
If logically you allow an unending growth in power / stats into a game, then you might as well be exaggerating the worst.
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ZigZag is an old player. I remember his posts appearing so fucking long time ago
If logically you allow an unending growth in power / stats into a game, then you might as well be exaggerating the worst.
OMG I will give you 100$ when you get to lvl 36 without haxing in crpg. It will take you about 3 years of hard playing. Feel free and go for your infinite Power throw lol.
If I stop to retire now, in 20+ years I might get to lvl 38. Poor noobs will die because I will have around 10 more HP and 1 more athletics. I will be damn immortal (sarcasm)
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Yet another newmy old friend that registered like 7 days ago and wants veterans to be nerfed, gtfo.
Yet another ignorant veteran that is too ignorant to see logical reasoning.
I'm not new by the way. I have played this mod years ago, I usually keep to myself and never really interacted with the community, until recently.
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years ago ?
good this mod only exists for about 23 months ;)
Another man that doesn't know what exaggeration is...
Stop reading everything and understanding it literally.
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years ago ?
good this mod only exists for about 23 months ;)
just start getting skill and stop whining about other human beeings beeing better in a fucking game than you.
Another ignorant and idiotic approach to the subject, I understand there are a high number of immature and irrational people within this community to due reading other posts.
Skill does not equal balance.
After balance, comes skill.
Yet it is understandable that a high skilled player can take down an unbalanced player.
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Who cares about cosmetic stuff?
There is fun in progression of power /stats otherwise there wouldnt be those evil lame lvl 35 players :rolleyes:
Just because they are hard to obtain, doesn't make it okay
Strange that in every RPG or atleast good online whatevers the Hard obtainable items are way better .
Everyone has the same chances,some play the game longer and they should have an advantage and this argument about 1 skill point blabla and another blabla multiplied by blablabla is just as stupid as you "sir" seem to be with your boring suggestions about cosmetics and titles no one cares about.
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And about your balance :
This is the most balanced mod/game you will ever find if you didn´t notice yet .
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And about your balance :
This is the most balanced mod/game you will ever find if you didn´t notice yet .
Ofc it doesn't mean the mod can't be more balanced. For example I would remove knockdown from wooden stick. In my humble opinion this would make mod more balanced. Also I have a few other strange ideas :D
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Its not such a big deal. The main benefit from going 30+ is to have a character thats never underlevelled, and for people who cba with feeling like they're grinding. The +3 attributes, +3skill points or so isn't going to make you a monster player. Thats like +1 powerstrike or athletics. If you sacrifice Weapon master points you can make silly high PS+ath characters with lots of HP that still attack fast, but thats more to do with WM needing some tweaks or WPF/level.
You effectively cost yourself 600k+ every 8.9 mil XP you get over 31 too. You can't haemorrhage gold on repairs like you can when you get a loompoint each 8.7mil xp . So you might find people over 31 actually use cheaper gear than people who retire every time they hit 31.
It takes a hell of a lot of game time to get those small bonuses over 30. 71 million XP to get 34 . Thats 8 times to 31, or 4.8million gold worth of retirements (at 600k per loom point).
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Ofc it doesn't mean the mod can't be more balanced. For example I would remove knockdown from wooden stick. In my humble opinion this would make mod more balanced. Also I have a few other strange ideas :D
Exactly my point.
Many people just take a lazy approach. "Eh why change it when it's been there for so long."
Why do you think chadz asks for suggestions on what to do next?
To help him and his development team to refine their mod.
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OH NO! OTHER PLAYERS WILL HAVE INFINITE POWER!
Good luck getting to 33-5 for another...5-10 health? 8-16% damage? 1-2 Athletics?
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No.
Compared to pretty much any other progressive character PVP game out there cRPG has virtually no downtime to be able to compete with other players.
Within like 2 hours I can go from a level 1 peasant with no chance to like level 15, where I at least can hurt & kill people if I pay attention.
Looms are a minor buff; you don't need looms to compete like in other RPGs.
Deal with it - 90% of the game is player skill & how you build your character. 10% is loom advantage.
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Exactly my point.
Many people just take a lazy approach. "Eh why change it when it's been there for so long."
Why do you think chadz asks for suggestions on what to do next?
To help him and his development team to refine their mod.
But anyway if there is a problem it is not with a character development. Try to look for some strange features that stand out. for example 1h axe with 3,2 weight that is balaced despite you hold it in 1 hand and 2h axe that is unbalanced despite it has 2 weight wtf?
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Its not such a big deal. The main benefit from going 30+ is to have a character thats never underlevelled, and for people who cba with feeling like they're grinding. The +3 attributes, +3skill points or so isn't going to make you a monster player. Thats like +1 or 2 powerstrike or athletics. If you sacrifice Weapon master points you can make silly high PS+ath characters with lots of HP that still attack fast, but thats more to do with WM needing some tweaks or WPF/level.
You effectively cost yourself 600k+ every 8.9 mil XP you get over 31 too. You can't haemorrhage gold on repairs like you can when you get a loompoint each 8.7mil xp . So you might find people over 31 actually use cheaper gear than people who retire every time they hit 31.
It takes a hell of a lot of game time to get those small bonuses over 30. 71 million XP to get 34 . Thats 8 times to 31, or 4.8million gold worth of retirements (at 600k per loom point).
It isn't a big deal, it is a huge deal in terms of balance.
1 extra point into athletics could mean you ran away from your enemy and saved your life, or 1 point into athletics can mean you pursued your enemy and sliced him down.
It is many of these "small differences" that add up overtime into eventually becoming a matter to deal with.
And as for gold, people have clans, people can trade, people can share.
I am generation 5 and have 23 heirloom points worth of gear without anyone actually lending me a hand, your point?
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GOOD. those "small" differences are the reward to dedicating yourself to get that extra 8 million experience, 16million, 64million.
Again, they are SMALL.
What you're saying is the equivalent of people complaining in MMO's. "OH NO! THAT GUY WITH FULL RAID GEAR IS BETTER THAN MY CHARACTER WHO JUST HIT MAX LEVEL." The difference here is, a level 15 player can EASILY defeat a level 35 if skilled enough. Heavens forbid the level 35 has a slight edge.
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ok we can have stf fight. I will have 1 less athletics and 3 less strength. I have no chance but we can duel anyway. (sarcasm)
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OH NO! OTHER PLAYERS WILL HAVE INFINITE POWER!
Good luck getting to 33-5 for another...5-10 health? 8-16% damage? 1-2 Athletics?
Exactly, I can't do it, you can't do it, the average player doesn't put that much time and effort into this game.
There are several level 35's besides that fact. They do have that extra health, extra damage, extra athletics.
And eventually a level 36.
Those are several people who a lot of time and effort to put into this game, they should be rewarded, but not with power, they are already skilled with having to put so much time into this game.
Many people ask "who cares about cosmetics?" yet there are people bidding millions of gold for a 30-day title.
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So...the person who does more than the average player should not be rewarded?
So... the person who works overtime should get paid the same amount for his extra time as the person who clocks in at 9am and clocks out at 5pm?
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GOOD. those "small" differences are the reward to dedicating yourself to get that extra 8 million experience, 16million, 64million.
Again, they are SMALL.
What you're saying is the equivalent of people complaining in MMO's. "OH NO! THAT GUY WITH FULL RAID GEAR IS BETTER THAN MY CHARACTER WHO JUST HIT MAX LEVEL." The difference here is, a level 15 player can EASILY defeat a level 35 if skilled enough. Heavens forbid the level 35 has a slight edge.
"Small differences" that "add up".
Skill does not equal balance.
Balance comes before skill
Yet it is understandable that a skilled player can take down an unbalanced player.
I must repeat myself, apperently.
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Exactly, I can't do it, you can't do it, the average player doesn't put that much time and effort into this game.
There are several level 35's besides that fact. They do have that extra health, extra damage, extra athletics.
And eventually a level 36.
Those are several people who a lot of time and effort to put into this game, they should be rewarded, but not with power, they are already skilled with having to put so much time into this game.
Many people ask "who cares about cosmetics?" yet there are people bidding millions of gold for a 30-day title.
I dont think they would bet on them if they would loose all their looms in exchange for that 30 day title.
There is no lvl 36 atm you can read it somewhere on this forum.
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So...the person who does more than the average player should not be rewarded?
So... the person who works overtime should get paid the same amount for his extra time as the person who clocks in at 9am and clocks out at 5pm?
Of course, reward the player that puts time and effort into this game, just not in raw power / stats.
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I dont think they would bet on them if they would loose all their looms in exchange for that 30 day title.
There is no lvl 36 atm you can read it somewhere on this forum.
This isn't about heirlooms, this is about setting an actual level cap.
None of this "soft cap" and "hard cap" bullshit.
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And eventually a level 36.
Isn't it like 36 lvl requires a few hundred million experience? There aren't any players at lvl 36. Every player makes mistake. lvl 36 doesn't make you OP. Chase is respecing all the damn time and he is one of the best of cRPG players, BUT HOW IS IT POSSIBLE IF HE ISN'T LVL 35? Your advantages are so small that nobody pays attention to them.
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Oh no there are like a handful of level 35s in the game AND SOMEDAY THERE MIGHT BE A LEVEL 36
Leveling in cRPG is broken!
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So what would you prefer?
Max lvl 30 ?
Cosmetic items instead of powerfull ones?
Did i miss something?
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Isn't it like 36 lvl requires a few hundred million experience? There aren't any players at lvl 36. Every player makes mistake. lvl 36 doesn't make you OP. Chase is respecing all the damn time and he is one of the best of cRPG players, BUT HOW IS IT POSSIBLE IF HE ISN'T LVL 35? Your advantages are so small that nobody pays attention to them.
That's the problem, they should pay attention to them.
You don't make a great balance change at once in a game, little by little you head towards perfection.
I would argue though that having no level cap is not a small unbalance, that it is huge mistake that most people have overlooked it.
You are able to have such great advantages such as riding that badass horse that you couldn't do otherwise with your currant build. Or wear that awesome shield that you wouldn't otherwise be able to.
Ever felt like all you needed was a few more points in your stats to make the build of your dreams? And then realize that would take you ages?
Those few points may sound like nothing, but they may be everything.
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I would argue though that having no level cap is not a small unbalance, that it is huge mistake that most people have overlooked it.
Too bad there is a level cap.
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Yep 50 right?
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Zig Zag, play around with this damage calculator: http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm
Raw player damage has a huge RNG component that levels out damage between players quite a bit.
Minimum: 17
Average: 28.5
Maximum: 40
Minimum: 19
Average: 31
Maximum: 43
+1 PS, from 7-8 with 42 damage weapon against 50 armour. The 7ps guy can do over twice the damage of the lvl 33/34. This is taking out the damage modifiers from moving into the attack and all the mechanical skills in the game like blocking, decisions you make, footwork etc. The game is still very much about being consistent with everything you do, your mechanical skills, decisions, tactics, not overextending, whatever.
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Yep 50 right?
Lol, no. 36 or 37.
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And eventually a level 36.
The Apocalypse looms on the horizon. There will be no survivors.
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Lol, no. 36 or 37.
Oh no my planned build for lvl 50 will never get real now :cry:
cmp let me just ask you for one favor :
Never change the game only because a minority of the community wants it and it´s not your own opinion.
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So what would you prefer?
Max lvl 30 ?
Cosmetic items instead of powerfull ones?
Did i miss something?
Max level being whatever that the community is comfortable with. One that can be achieved by an average C-RPG player.
Cosmetics such as titles, banners, ect awarded to players who spent lots of time trying to obtain it.
For now, just add an actual level limit that an average C-RPG player is able to obtain.
Remove the levels of the players that surpass the level limit, give them a unique permanent banner, some sort of cosmetic feature, maybe a permanent title in compensation for their dedication. Or many even give them lots of heirloom points depending on how much exp they have gathered, almost like a force retirement.
If they are a good sport, they would understand why this is done, and if they are skilled / good after playing such a long time, it would not matter much to them, and the unique cosmetic feature should be enough to satisfy them.
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Lol, no. 36 or 37.
23 months into this mod according to Warlord, how many people have hit the limit?
Point taken?
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Never change the game only because a minority of the community wants it and it´s not your own opinion.
Never did, never will.
Besides, we already looked at the level cap recently and we decided it's fine as it is.
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Never did, never will.
Besides, we already looked at the level cap recently and we decided it's fine as it is.
Oh well, I guess I'm the minority, thank you for reading my post then, all 320+ of you.
That was my opinion.
Do as you wish.
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Never did, never will.
Besides, we already looked at the level cap recently and we decided it's fine as it is.
fine i can leave this discussion now.
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YES THIS THREAD IS GREAT. Lets put a cap we can all reach quickly, gear we can all access with only short wait. You know what? We should not even bother to make our own builds, just have a bunch preset archetypes at the level cap, so we can just grab one without waiting. But limit the gear per archetypal class, so we can get top tier stuff after winning just a round or two. To mix it up, we should have each team get slighty different gear so we dont all wear same. Infact, we could even align those gear choices with the factions from singleplayer, so it feels RP'ish.
Wait, they made that game already....
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I've beaten level 33+ players with 0 ps 0 slot hammers and non loomed cloth armor, and beaten other geared up people as a fresh retire level 3 naked guy with a wooden stick on siege, get on my level scrub
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No, I want that 11 power strike and ironflesh.
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It doesn't take way too long. This is so much faster levelling than in old cRPG. I'm 34 going on level 35 at generation 1, and I'm not complaining about the amount of experience I have to gain. I have alternate characters that have retired more than once. It takes time, but it's not impossible; you'll get there. You know, it's hard for the developers to make an experience system that fits everybody, so just move on.
P.S. No, I don't play this 24/7, and if you don't believe me, ask someone that has me on Steam.
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Stopped reading posts after about 5, so I'll just say this:
QQ moar, you obviously didn't play cRPG back when level 45+ players rode around on Cataphracts in full Milanese Plate with Crushthrough Morningstar/38p Sword of Tears/pocket Pikes/no upkeep terrorizing people who had played for a few weeks and only managed to purchase a mail shirt and a falchion or something.
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Lol, no. 36 or 37.
If you do not know what the level cap is and you are part of the development team, then there's a good chance there is no firm level cap.
It must not be "oh, 35, maybe 36, or I guess 37" It must be firm and clear, and do you really expect the average player to stick around to gain hundreds of millions of experience until they are finally able to match the long term players in raw stats?
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If you do not know what the level cap is and you are part of the development team, then there's a good chance there is no firm level cap.
It must not be "oh, 35, maybe 36, or I guess 37" It must be firm and clear, and do you really expect the average player to stick around to gain hundreds of millions of experience until they are finally able to match the long term players in raw stats?
I don't believe there is anyone at a "level cap" yet. Cmpx didn't start out on the developer team, but he made it up there. It wasn't for no reason, obviously. Maybe you should think about it. Cmpx is a developer--do you think this is the first time he's heard your kind of whining or seen it before? Hundreds of millions of experience only separates your from other players minimally, so if you can't play with it, then quit or get better.
Everyone started out sucking and being a peasant, by the way... So new players can level up just like everyone has to. You're lucky it's much easier than before.
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MW looms give you what, +1 speed? +3 damage? +5 armor? Heirloom stacking is not a big deal. What probably could help is shortening 1-30 more and lengthening 30-31 accordingly.
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P.S. No, I don't play this 24/7, and if you don't believe me, ask someone that has me on Steam.
You just set Steam to offline mode and still play, admit it! :mrgreen:
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Stopped reading posts after about 5, so I'll just say this:
QQ moar, you obviously didn't play cRPG back when level 45+ players rode around on Cataphracts in full Milanese Plate with Crushthrough Morningstar/38p pike of tears/pocket Pikes/no upkeep terrorizing people who had played for a few weeks and only managed to purchase a mail shirt and a falchion or something.
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If you do not know what the level cap is and you are part of the development team, then there's a good chance there is no firm level cap.
It must not be "oh, 35, maybe 36, or I guess 37" It must be firm and clear, and do you really expect the average player to stick around to gain hundreds of millions of experience until they are finally able to match the long term players in raw stats?
People aren't aiming for any level cap, they generally make builds for 30 and retire at 31. You can do that your whole cRPG career and be one of the best players in the game while amassing huge quantities of gold for masterwork items or repairs. Its always been said that there is a soft cap, but there is effectively a hard cap too due to the amount of time needed to level up:
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That is some epic diminishing returns curve for a game..Now consider people who go over 31 don't make characters for 37..they make them for 33/34 because levelling up to there might be as far as you ever go, anything after that is just a tiny bonus somewhere on the horizon after hundreds/thousands of hours of game time, a bonus that might not even equate to more than 1 HP
Then you also have the fact that this is not a duelling game. You meet people who have twice your HP because you got plinked by an arrow already, you outnumber players you consider high priority (or just anyone you can). You hit people in the back if you get the opportunity. You use team work to beat better players etc..Its a battle, not an arena game
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If you do not know what the level cap is and you are part of the development team, then there's a good chance there is no firm level cap.
It must not be "oh, 35, maybe 36, or I guess 37" It must be firm and clear, and do you really expect the average player to stick around to gain hundreds of millions of experience until they are finally able to match the long term players in raw stats?
Level 33 is just 4 generations worth of XP.
Level 34 is just 9 generations worth of XP.
Level 35 is 20 generations worth of XP.
Level 36 is 48 generations worth of XP.
Level 37 is 115 generations worth of XP.
It's much easier for you to come close to high level monsters, how you call them, than for them to gain another level.
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there is effectively a hard cap too due to the amount of time needed to level up:
My great-grandchildren could make it to lvl 40, though :P
On a more serious note, I can somewhat understand your rage. It has a bad feeling to it knowing that there are players out there simply having 1-2 PS or Ath more than you will ever get (with the other stats equal). But in the end it really doesn't matter at all, the better player (as in duelist, backstabber, backpaddler, dancing master, teamworker, whatever...) will win allways. The bonus you gain at lvl 35 (which is IMO insane to actively go for) is just too small.
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Ignoring most other posts as I won't waste my time reading those, I just can voice my opinion, by saying that the current system is fine right now. Maybe there is a need to change the xp system but I even prefer this over the xp system before.
I see that there is no need of skill to level up. Only the time is important. That means that even casual players have the same chance as skilled players (casual in this case means "less skilled", though casual usually also means spending less time) to level up.
I prefer having no hard cap but actually a soft cap which is possible to be reached, level 31/32. Level 31 is possible to reach in about 2 weeks with some hours a day and some luck as well (x2, x3).
Not sure why you would limit the cap to a certain level, e.g. 31 as there are many, especially hybrid builds, not being "finished" at those levels yet. Also making looms not giving any real stats would destroy my need to retire anymore. If its just about the looks I wouldn't retire.. :P
Skill does also mean more than 1 , 2 levels.
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buff hybrids
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I don't believe there is anyone at a "level cap" yet. Cmpx didn't start out on the developer team, but he made it up there. It wasn't for no reason, obviously. Maybe you should think about it. Cmpx is a developer--do you think this is the first time he's heard your kind of whining or seen it before? Hundreds of millions of experience only separates your from other players minimally, so if you can't play with it, then quit or get better.
Everyone started out sucking and being a peasant, by the way... So new players can level up just like everyone has to. You're lucky it's much easier than before.
When that "minimally" can mean they run faster, swing faster, and be overall more powerful hybird builds or core build than the average player (levels 30-31) , then there is something wrong, because in order for them to catch up to such speed, such strength, and such equipment, they will need to spend just as much time as the long time players did in order for them to optimize their character to the maximum.
It makes no sense to keep such a broken system.
Feels almost like one of those Chineese RPG grinding systems.
Yes, the game is very fun, but level balancing would make it even more fun at equal opportunity.
Give achievable rewards to the average player that hasn't been lingering around this community for the past year / months.
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Chances are next cRPG will have a vastly different leveling system, fixing some of the things you mentioned. Not gonna change this one, though. Not worth the rage :wink:
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Feels almost like one of those Chineese RPG grinding systems.
lol, comparing cRPG's grind to one of those is like comparing a hangnail to the holocaust.
cRPG by it's nature develops your character. Some characters have advantages, deal with it.
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Because it would set a base, or I should say, a "roof" which this mod is missing.
The high leveled players who are around 35 already are very skilled at this game (at least I would hope so)
They do not really need additional points along with their skill to slice the average player down.
Putting the level cap would remove the stat advantage that long time players have over average players and would force the game to be more skill -based rather than level - based.
That is exactly why I kept saying skill does not equal balance, balance comes before skill, and even though a skilled player can take down an unbalanced player.
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Chances are next cRPG will have a vastly different leveling system, fixing some of the things you mentioned. Not gonna change this one, though. Not worth the rage :wink:
Well, if you fix the leveling system, then there might be a different perspective on how this is viewed.
Although I would still recommand having a firm level cap that is within the grasp of the average player, that is one of the basic fundamentals for such an RPG mod that you have created.
And there is no rage here, just opinions and discussion to help better the mod.
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Chances are next cRPG will have a vastly different leveling system, fixing some of the things you mentioned. Not gonna change this one, though. Not worth the rage :wink:
next cRPG?
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Because it would set a base, or I should say, a "roof" which this mod is missing.
The high leveled players who are around 35 already are very skilled at this game (at least I would hope so)
They do not really need additional points along with their skill to slice the average player down.
Putting the level cap would remove the stat advantage that long time players have over average players and would force the game to be more skill -based rather than level - based.
That is exactly why I kept saying skill does not equal balance, balance comes before skill, and even though a skilled player can take down an unbalanced player.
In the time it takes to hit level 35 you can retire enough times to have 19-20 looms. Probably more if you factor in XP bonus per gen.
I would take those looms over the few stat points in an instant.
You're trying to create a solution for a problem that doesn't exist; the vast majority of the cRPG population retires at 31, and will continue to retire at 31.
So there are a few superheroes out there that have level 33-35 toons...who cares. You can still beat them through teamwork or trickery or simply pulling off some skills. It's not like World of Warcraft where a lowbie has literally no ability to harm a higher level... everyone in the cRPG universe is quite susceptible to a few bonks on the noggin'.
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This.
I just started a new character on the Maxlvl 20 server for fun and levelled him to 21. That took about 2 1/2 hours.
Now he is 15/15 with 5 PS, 5 athletics and 5 wm (~136 wpf).
I can now beat the shit out of any player, even if he has 21 str and 21 agi, when I am the better blocker and the more experienced player, even without looms. Sure, it´s harder, but by no means impossible.
cRPG in it´s current state is one of the newcomers friendliest games/mods I EVER played, no online-multiplayer game makes it so easy to gain money and levels like cRPG.
You are obviously missing the point. But please do go on, about how such a badass player you are.
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GENERAL DIAGNOZE
QQ THREAD
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GENERAL DIAGNOZE
QQ THREAD
General Diagnosis*
And if you are not here to provide a logical statement then please take the short bus out of here.
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Post has been reopened, see bottom for details.
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Don't give a damn about how many of you are willing to get butthurt over this thread.
I still believe the level cap should be 30 (no exeptions). That way the MAJORITY of the players who actually have a LIFE are able to hit the level cap and gain all the stats that are available to them.
Right now you have a silly game, where some guy who spent over 6+ months if not a year, gaining to lvl 35, having so much more stats advantage than you, (do the math) yes it is a significant amount. 1 point extra into athletics (as an example) is enough for a man to catch up to you and slaughter you. 1 point extra could also mean an armored horse instead of that crappy horse you're riding with your current build. And this is the work of just 1 point extra.
Balance your game. The developers already responded to this thread, maybe they will never put an actual level cap that most people are able to reach.
I still believe I am right, and will stand with my statement.
Share your opinions and rage if you wish, I've already gotten lots of people hating me for it.
This is a general topic. Thanks for the developers for reading my post, but reading isnt enough, not until my ideas come into action.
Therefore, this topic is unlocked again, and I will bump it every now and then if I wish to do so.
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Level cap of 31 if anything, that way I can do 30/9 and have fun.
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And again. 1 level difference is nothing. If it's 30 <-> 36/37 maybe. BUT even THEN its all about skill. 1 PS doesnt help you if you cant block, if you cant side-step in the right moment or have no battle awareness.
You never need to reach level 34+. A level 30 is good enough for most classes. Only Horse Archers would need a higher level for proper aim. anyone else has nice builds on lvl 31 and 30.
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I beleive I have just -1 everything you have said in this thread zigzag
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Chances are next cRPG will have a vastly different leveling system, fixing some of the things you mentioned. Not gonna change this one, though. Not worth the rage :wink:
I hope our invested time in crpg will be transferred the the next crpg (xp, items, gold).
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I beleive I have just -1 everything you have said in this thread zigzag
Oh... my internet feelings.. are so hurt..
</3
Also try to add points into my infamy, not sure how that crap works, but make it into one long red line to make it look like a lightsaber
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I hope our invested time in crpg will be transferred the the next crpg (xp, items, gold).
Hopefully the next CRPG will have an actual LEGIT level cap!