cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: callahan9119 on April 16, 2012, 09:30:55 pm

Title: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 16, 2012, 09:30:55 pm
I'm currently level 20 with stats of 13 str, 12 agi, 124 1 handed skill. I have 4 in IF, PS, Shield, Athletics and WM.

I seem to be making no progress, in fact I think I am actually regressing in ability. I believe I'm right that the "left to right" swing has the most advantages, so I try and use it as much as I can. What are good fighting tips for a shield user? Granted I have really played no M&B for a year and had never played MP until this week, but I have never played an online game where I just felt like I was making 0 progress in terms of skill...I get super bummed when I play, but I keep grinding hoping I'll have that moment where shit clicks.

I would have been level 30 by now except for a drunken respec...not sure how much the levels would matter though in terms of my efficacy on the battlefield.

This is the goal I'm shooting for in terms of build, courtesy of Digglez:

(click to show/hide)

Or this other Digglez build:

(click to show/hide)

I'll probably not do the build with riding this go around...but still undecided.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Remy on April 16, 2012, 09:57:41 pm
I am sure you are making progress, however, some people here have been playing M&B online since whenever the Beta was.

It will take some time before you can compete with people who have over 500+ hours playing this game.  :wink:
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: San on April 16, 2012, 10:01:08 pm
I definitely suggest 21/15 for now (pure build). 18 strength would be hard for someone who is not familiar with turning into swings, etc.

Left swing: Best for close distance
Overhead: Best at medium distance and great for 2+ vs 1 person
right swing: Best for long distance.

Be mindful of which ways you are moving when you are fighting.  Strafing is your friend.

Most of the time, strafe left if you want to right swing, strafe right if you want to left swing.
When fighting, it is good to strafe away from your opponent's swing direction.

When you left swing, turn right. When you right swing, turn left. It's up to you to decide whether you should turn and by how much, especially if you're strafing in that direction.

Beware of playing overly defensive. You can always bring your sword out and cancel whenever you want with a block. If you're overly defensive, you'll lose your pace against the opponent's offense.

Be mindful of your counters: Axes, Players on horses, and obviously people ganging up on you. If possible, try to be in an advantageous situation, and simply avoid these people if you don't feel confident.

In group fights, you want to use overheads primarily, and some left swings. If you use a short 1her, use left swings primarily, then overheads. It is a nice strategy to hold your swing until you can time a simultaneous swing with a teammate or at your opponent's back.

If you want practice, try going to the duel server for around 10 minutes before going to battle mode. Be aware of your mistakes and successful tactics while fighting.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Ronin on April 16, 2012, 10:02:20 pm
I think throwing is the least thing you should be focusing on, since in singleplayer they are useless that you have no experience with them. Horseback throwing is the hardest thing in mount&blade. In cRPG, it is most likely underpowered even.

Well, throwing is a hard thing to do. Unless you are planning to utilize from some cowardly/lucky kills from throwing I would tell you to skip it. I think a shielder with 21/15 and maximized IF, PS, Ath and shield would be good. Spend your remaining points into weapon master and you'll be quite strong in melee.

For fighting tips, first of all there are 3 things you have to keep in mind. You have the fastest melee weapon overall (if you do not count short poles and twohands). After all, your weapon is actually faster than all greatswords. Second, you have the less damage melee weapons. So you will need to hit for more times than they do to you. Thirdly, you have shortest weapons in melee. Even after you hit greatsword user for two times if he somehow manages to outrange you and spam, he can slash your guts. Do not think that you can set the 3rd hit to your noob opponent who can't even properly block manually. That noob can actually take you down.

Off-topic edit:
It will take some time before you can compete with people who have over 500+ hours playing this game.  :wink:
It has been over 1500 hours and this is only for warband. I must have more for Mount&Blade :)
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 16, 2012, 10:03:35 pm
(click to show/hide)

Thanks, that was exactly what I was looking for.

I think throwing is the least thing you should be focusing on, since in singleplayer they are useless that you have no experience with them. Horseback throwing is the hardest thing in mount&blade. In cRPG, it is most likely underpowered even.

Well, throwing is a hard thing to do. Unless you are planning to utilize from some cowardly/lucky kills from throwing I would tell you to skip it. I think a shielder with 21/15 and maximized IF, PS, Ath and shield would be good. Spend your remaining points into weapon master and you'll be quite strong in melee.

Before I repecced, throwing was where I got most of my kills...and tons of dead horses, this time around I waited to do throwing till the end.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 16, 2012, 10:06:32 pm
Double post.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Camaris on April 16, 2012, 10:08:02 pm
For shielders its important to listen to the opponents hits on your shield and dont look if they hit.
To avoid getting fainted too much hit back as soon as you hear the enemy hit on your shild. Thats the exact moment to start your attack.

After you got the basics (what the guy above told) you can start to try some faints yourself.
You have to stop your swing with a block and hit immediatly again in another or the same direction.

Just watch other shielders with good scores if you are death. You can get some of the tricks just by watching others doing it.

PS: Is it feint or faint? I really dont know it :)
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Zanze on April 16, 2012, 10:15:00 pm
Don't get rid of throwing. Seriously. I did 2 gens as shielder/thrower and 1 as pure shielder. I felt naked without my throwing weapons when trying to either fight an S key hero or other kind of agi whore, or when cav decide they wont leave till i'm dead.

1 Heavy throwing axe to a charging horse is a dead horse. A few daggers to the backs of a fleeing archer is a soon to be decapitated archer. Or hell, maybe Goretooth just rounded the corner after soloing my team while eating a sandwich. No way in hell I want to melee him. Throwing axes and PRAY that you hurt him enough to run away. (Or get a lucky kill ;))

Also, it gives you the option to go be a pure thrower for a few maps if you want  to save money. But in general, it just makes you more versatile. 7 PS is more than enough, as is 5 ath. (You can drop a pt in IF for a pt in ath)

TL;DR Throwing kills horses and agi whores/archers, which are coincidentally shield counters.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 16, 2012, 10:16:47 pm

PS: Is it feint or faint? I really dont know it :)

Feint:
(click to show/hide)

Faint:
(click to show/hide)

Thanks for all the advice guys.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Ronin on April 16, 2012, 10:19:29 pm
Ok then, you seem to be liking throwing. You may try this build as well:
STR: 21
AGI: 15

Ironflesh: 0
Pwr Strike: 7
Pwr Throw: 7
Shield: 5
Athletics: 5
Weapon master: 5

This was the build of a guy with an avatar that has a man in blue kettle helmet or somethin. Forgot his name. The thing you will be sacrificing is 10 bonus health from the ironflesh. Other then that, you will be dealing be dealing the same damage as a pure thrower in throwing and the same damage as a shielder in melee. You might play with it a little, that you might make it 4 in shield and 5 in power throw so you can have 3 ironflesh perhaps; for the sake of better survival.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 16, 2012, 10:20:35 pm
Strength: 21
Agility: 15
Hit points: 64

Skills to attributes: 2

Ironflesh: 4
Power Strike: 7
Shield: 5
Athletics: 4
Power Throw: 4
Weapon Master: 5

One Handed: 123
Throwing: 98


This build is flawed, put one more point in ath and one less in IF. Or put none in IF and max out ath, PT - but then you will need more throwing proficency.

If i were you i would ditch the throwing and go

Ironflesh: 7
Power Strike: 7
Shield: 5
Athletics: 5
Weapon Master: 5
One Handed: 148

If you still want to be a thrower i recomend this:

Strength: 18
Agility: 18
Hit points: 65
Skills to attributes: 2
Ironflesh: 6
Power Strike: 6
Athletics: 6
Power Throw: 5
Weapon Master: 6
One Handed: 129
Throwing: 110

Also are you NA or EU?

Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 16, 2012, 10:21:40 pm
Gonna stick with the Digglez build.

NA
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Ronin on April 16, 2012, 10:22:56 pm
Since you are going to be a shielder you may want to use heavyish armor, unlike pure throwers. So put enough points into throwing wpf accordingly.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: San on April 16, 2012, 10:23:21 pm
All you need is to be familiar with basics to be decent. After that, you can use your own creativity and knowledge of the game mechanics to perform even better with your own style.

My first build was a shield+thrower, and I didn't really start to flourish until I went to a pure 1h build.

Lack of ironflesh means you'll be getting killed in 1 hit on many occasions. Make sure you really like throwing before committing to using it as a sidearm.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 16, 2012, 10:23:56 pm
Gonna stick with the Digglez build.

NA

Riding and power throw?

If you want to throw stuff from a horse you also need points in horse archery
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 16, 2012, 10:26:18 pm
Riding and power throw?

If you want to throw stuff from a horse you also need points in horse archery

Not the riding one...yet.

I don't think it's meant to be thrown from his horse anyway...it's just an all around build.

I think it's for more advanced users...I'm not gonna try it till I'm waaaaay better. I didn't really need build advice, just tactics, techniques etc. I'm sticking with that first build.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Zanze on April 16, 2012, 10:35:30 pm
The riding one isn't meant to throw from horseback, else it would have HA. It's simply meant to be a somewhat jack of all trades build. Shielder Thrower is the staple of NH. If we need cav, we sacrifice 1 PS to get the option, but only cav when necessary. (Horses can't shieldwall effectively...they tend to run off. jerks.)


Do not dare to try that 18/15 for a while though. You are complete garbage until 27-30 ish.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 16, 2012, 10:45:32 pm
Yeah, sticking with the "Huscarl" build.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Digglez on April 16, 2012, 10:55:15 pm
Riding and power throw?

If you want to throw stuff from a horse you also need points in horse archery

wrong, you do not at all.  Hitting horses with axes is pretty childsplay and I routinely kill or hit enemy lancers charging me.  I also can do about 20% accuracy vs infantry, its a nice way to rattle them or soften up a piker that you cant reach.  HA is not a requirement by any means.


Cal, while you have 2 good builds to pick from, you are spending the stat points in the wrong way.


Get up to 15 STR first immediately & 5 PS
Get your throwing WPF maxed BEFORE melee.  Its alot easier to be able to throw as a low level than it is going thru high levels with shitty throwing.  I will normally go 50 melee/50 throwing then 75/75 then max my throwing.

Get 12 agi for 4shield skill to use heavy round
Get 15 agi for 5 riding so you can use your horse at later levels.

Finish +STR last 3 levels.


Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 16, 2012, 11:01:59 pm
wrong, you do not at all.  Hitting horses with axes is pretty childsplay and I routinely kill or hit enemy lancers charging me.  I also can do about 20% accuracy vs infantry, its a nice way to rattle them or soften up a piker that you cant reach.  HA is not a requirement by any means.


Cal, while you have 2 good builds to pick from, you are spending the stat points in the wrong way.


Get up to 15 STR first immediately & 5 PS
Get your throwing WPF maxed BEFORE melee.  Its alot easier to be able to throw as a low level than it is going thru high levels with shitty throwing.  I will normally go 50 melee/50 throwing then 75/75 then max my throwing.

Get 12 agi for 4shield skill to use heavy round
Get 15 agi for 5 riding so you can use your horse at later levels.

Finish +STR last 3 levels.

Yeah, unfortunately I didn't do that by design...I realized too late that I should have put some points into throwing SKILL if not PT...I can't even throw knives which friggin blows. But there's nothing I can do about it now. And I think respeccing again would destroy my soul.

I wonder if doing 15-20 again would be more or less obnoxious that 20-30 with crap throwing...
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Digglez on April 16, 2012, 11:05:45 pm
Yeah, unfortunately I didn't do that by design...I realized too late that I should have put some points into throwing SKILL if not PT...I can't even throw knives which friggin blows. But there's nothing I can do about it now. And I think respeccing again would destroy my soul.

Nah, if you are at least lvl 12, you'll be useful.  15 STR with 5PS & PT.  Kill horses all day.  Soften up 2h'ers for your teammates.

Respcing to fix a build is alot less painful than playing thru low gen with a BADly done build heh


But your predicament has shown us a problem, perhaps we need to add a guide on HOW to fill out the build as well as the build itself.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 16, 2012, 11:08:14 pm
Nah, if you are at least lvl 12, you'll be useful.  15 STR with 5PS & PT.  Kill horses all day.  Soften up 2h'ers for your teammates.

Respcing to fix a build is alot less painful than playing thru low gen with a BADly done build heh

Yeah, you're right....damn my soul and head hurt from respeccing again. I had your Huscarl build to level 26 and I was shitty drunk and kept getting killed by archers and I was like "F this shit, I'm gonna be an archer"...I regretted it like 90 seconds after I hit the button.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Gurnisson on April 16, 2012, 11:13:28 pm
15 agility and 4 athletics, really? Always max PS and Athletics for melee builds
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: rustyspoon on April 17, 2012, 01:22:15 am
15 agility and 4 athletics, really? Always max PS and Athletics for melee builds

Yeah, ESPECIALLY for shielders athletics is important. As a shielder you're already slower than other classes. It also takes longer for you to kill other people which means it's far easier to get surrounded. Then if you have low athletics on top of that...well...

Another bit of useful advice: use your shield as little as possible. If you don't know how to fight without a shield you are going to get crushed as soon as your shield breaks. Which if you're on NA can happen very quickly with the amount of str builds and axes. If you don't know how to handle yourself without a shield, you'll go down quick. You have to get used to darting in and out of range and recognizing which weapons will block stun you and which won't. Then when you get good at that, you can selectively put away your shield in order to get as much life as possible out of it. No more getting surprised by a broken shield.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 17, 2012, 01:35:45 am
I don't want my head clouded with doubts about builds. I like being able to have some throwing weapon capabilities. If there is a reasonable way to slightly alter this
(click to show/hide)
build to somehow make it "better" then I'm all ears...but I'm pretty sold on it. I have more of a problem with skills, not builds. And my shield almost never breaks...I'm gonna keep using it till I gain a better feel for the game and improve my situational awareness.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Digglez on April 17, 2012, 01:38:39 am
just take a point from ironflesh and put it to athletics
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Mlekce on April 17, 2012, 01:45:27 am
That class is so fustrating to play man. Low dmg,weapons glance a lot,you are slow,weapons are short,everyone with 2h weapon spam on you.
I tried it once and i rage respec to 2h. I suggest you use steel pick,nordic champion sword,knightly arming sword or arabian cav sword.
If you play battle whatch out when you are in the mob because almoust always in some tight maps like towns someone will block you from behind,and try to live untill the end of round,because everyone will be wounded so it is easier to kill them. Also get a lot of armor,and be patient.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: rustyspoon on April 17, 2012, 01:50:31 am
That class is so fustrating to play man. Low dmg,weapons glance a lot,you are slow,weapons are short,everyone with 2h weapon spam on you.
I tried it once and i rage respec to 2h. I suggest you use steel pick,nordic champion sword,knightly arming sword or arabian cav sword.
If you play battle whatch out when you are in the mob because almoust always in some tight maps like towns someone will block you from behind,and try to live untill the end of round,because everyone will be wounded so it is easier to kill them. Also get a lot of armor,and be patient.

Ugh. Don't go down the dark path and use the lame-ass steel pick.

If you're looking for skills, the most important thing a shielder needs is footwork. Footwork is FAR more important for shielder than ANY other class. As a shielder, your weapon is shorter than everyone else and carrying a shield makes you move slower than everyone else. Also, you'll often be outnumbered because you're slow and do little damage. You also have a higher chance of glancing, which again, makes footwork important. Watch good shielders and learn footwork. It's the most important 1h skill.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Mlekce on April 17, 2012, 01:59:36 am
i will build my next gen like this

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 21
Agility: 15
Skills to attributes: 2
Ironflesh: 4
Power Strike: 7
Shield: 4
Athletics: 5
Riding: 5
Weapon Master: 4
One Handed: 138
Throwing: 0
health points 64
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 17, 2012, 02:02:22 am
just take a point from ironflesh and put it to athletics

Will do, if it's better.

That class is so fustrating to play man. Low dmg,weapons glance a lot,you are slow,weapons are short,everyone with 2h weapon spam on you.
I tried it once and i rage respec to 2h. I suggest you use steel pick,nordic champion sword,knightly arming sword or arabian cav sword.
If you play battle whatch out when you are in the mob because almoust always in some tight maps like towns someone will block you from behind,and try to live untill the end of round,because everyone will be wounded so it is easier to kill them. Also get a lot of armor,and be patient.

I use the champion sword...well not now because I'm respeccing again  :mad:, but eventually.

I can't wear too much armor because of the throwing penalty...and more weight means I'm slower. I wear mostly vikingy medium armor, Haubergeon, Nordic Conical Helmet, leather gloves and mail chausses. I don't think I can go heavier than that. I like having throwing, won't change that.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Mlekce on April 17, 2012, 02:07:37 am
if you ever got chance to buy some loomed armor buy light kuyak or mongol armor,that light armors are crap.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 17, 2012, 02:14:46 am
if you ever got chance to buy some loomed armor buy light kuyak or mongol armor,that light armors are crap.

That has just a couple more points than what I have...
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: To Kill A Dead Horse on April 17, 2012, 02:39:50 am
I would say use a 12/24 or related build, and use a fighting axe/ long dagger combo for weapons. It worked for my STF.

I think throwing is the least thing you should be focusing on, since in singleplayer they are useless that you have no experience with them. Horseback throwing is the hardest thing in mount&blade. In cRPG, it is most likely underpowered even.

Well, throwing is a hard thing to do. Unless you are planning to utilize from some cowardly/lucky kills from throwing I would tell you to skip it.
Since I am a pure thrower with 9 PT all my killz result from skillz, though luck is a factor.
Throwing is pretty easy once you know the tradjectory and velocity. Its pretty useful when trying to gain distance on people (archers for instance) who are faster than you and also when you want to soften the enemy before engaging in melee.
And horseback throwing is as broken as dagger cav atm.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 17, 2012, 08:07:40 pm
1. How do you use throwing weapons in melee?

2. Does power throw add to thrown damage?

3. Does anybody know how to destroy an item in the crpg site? I don't want a lot of the cheap garbage I started with/bought early and it's cluttering up my inventory.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Digglez on April 17, 2012, 08:14:58 pm
1. How do you use throwing weapons in melee?

2. Does power throw add to thrown damage?

3. Does anybody know how to destroy an item in the crpg site? I don't want a lot of the cheap garbage I started with/bought early and it's cluttering up my inventory.

1)  Press X to change weapon mode, should be listed in options>controls

2)  Yes, powerthrow adds 10% dmg per point

3)  Just sell the item

Equipment tab > inventory from left sidebar > click on button with coin $$ amount for item you want to sell

Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 17, 2012, 08:20:32 pm
Thanks again.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Digglez on April 17, 2012, 08:24:51 pm
oh, forgot to mention there is a slight delay when you switch weapon modes.  Forgot the excuse devs gave as to why it was there, but it will often get you killed a thrower when you press the button and nothing happens
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Ronin on April 17, 2012, 09:49:11 pm
I would say use a 12/24 or related build, and use a fighting axe/ long dagger combo for weapons. It worked for my STF.
Since I am a pure thrower with 9 PT all my killz result from skillz, though luck is a factor.
Throwing is pretty easy once you know the tradjectory and velocity. Its pretty useful when trying to gain distance on people (archers for instance) who are faster than you and also when you want to soften the enemy before engaging in melee.
And horseback throwing is as broken as dagger cav atm.
I think you got me wrong. I do not mean throwing is luck based. It's just that callahan seems like a newbie player and since he is most likely to be beaten on melee, and since there is no such way he would be really good at throwing; but since it is still possible for him to get some lucky shots from throwing I called it lucky kills :)
In singleplayer warband, throwing is the least useful way of killing your enemies. That's why callahan is most likely unexperienced in that.

I am a thrower this gen, and I am pretty good at it also. I would like to make a throwing duel with you someday, before I retire :D
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 17, 2012, 09:52:14 pm
At this point I'll take lucky kills...they seem to be the only kills coming my way. I've never stuck with a game so long that has done nothing but frustrate and confound me.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Grumbs on April 17, 2012, 10:10:33 pm
Keep practising and don't feel bad about not doing so well. For me the learning experience was fun as long as you can see where you went wrong and then see some improvement as you play. Being able to say "damn I failed that block", or "overextended", "wrong attack direction", "didn't hold the block until it hit", "got feinted and missed a block", "wasn't aware of players around me", "didn't retreat when outnumbered", "tried to solo the wrong guy". If you can't really analyse where you go wrong it will lead to frustration, just need more experience really and you will start getting some kills. Go on the duel server for practice but try to duel people who aren't high on the scoreboard. You will get better with the actual mechanics in duel but need to play battle to get better at playing that. 1 point of athletics is worth much more than the 2 hp btw, especially when you have a shield

Get to lvl 30 with your complete build and then you will at least have a character on a similar level to others. Going hybrid means you are weaker while levelling than pure builds, and still not quite 100% as good as a dedicated build. Its all down to what you enjoy though, if you enjoy the playstyle then its good enough

When you get to 31 retire and sell your loom point. You should hopefully then have enough for a +3 heirloomed item with your 1mil you got. I would get gloves, body armour or a shield. You get like -10 body armour as a new player compared to people with heirlooms
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 17, 2012, 10:15:00 pm
Going hybrid means you are weaker while levelling than pure builds, and still not quite 100% as good as a dedicated build. Its all down to what you enjoy though, if you enjoy the playstyle then its good enough

I could get more kills just by going two handed and spamming...I'd still die a lot because my blocking sucks but I got cheap kills. I just don't like playing like that. The satisfaction of putting a javelin in someone's face and watching em crumble is so much more rewarding, at least for me.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Turboflex on April 17, 2012, 10:26:28 pm
Yes throwing is extremely satisfying, so much fun bringing down charging horses, cowardly archers, or rampaging 2h heroes. Keep practicing at it.

1h/shield is not about dueling or one shotting people (though you can, especially with a nasty close range weapon like a broad 1h battle axe or steel pick), the major satisfaction of this class a much greater ability to fight off multiple opponents. It becomes a chess-like match where you use your shield to bide your time, and position yourself to open opportunities to strike.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 17, 2012, 10:31:35 pm
1h/shield is not about dueling or one shotting people (though you can, especially with a nasty close range weapon like a broad 1h battle axe or steel pick), the major satisfaction of this class a much greater ability to fight off multiple opponents. It becomes a chess-like match where you use your shield to bide your time, and position yourself to open opportunities to strike.

Yeah, that's something I'm slowly realizing...my situational awareness sucks. It will start off an even 12 vs 12 mini battle and I'll be fighting off two guys and the next thing I know all my teammates are dead or running for their lives and I'm surrounded by 10 angry dudes with mauls and shit pounding my head into mush.

If I'm using my broad battle ax and put away my shield, does it then use two handed skill, which I have 0 of? It says secondary mode, not sure what that means.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Spawny on April 17, 2012, 10:50:53 pm
If I'm using my broad battle ax and put away my shield, does it then use two handed skill, which I have 0 of? It says secondary mode, not sure what that means.

Still uses 1h wpf. It's secondary mode changes it to it's spikey bit, turning it into a pierce weapon.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 17, 2012, 11:02:09 pm
Thank you.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: zagibu on April 17, 2012, 11:37:55 pm
Shielder can be frustrating till level 25, especially if you're not that skilled yet. Throwing even more so, because evading ranged is soooo easy in this game.

One mistake many shielders make is to wear heavy armor as soon as they have enough STR. If you don't have the athletics up to 5 yet, don't use heavy armor, or you will be circled easily. Read the offensive shielder guide for some tactics (builds are maybe not so relevant anymore, since a lot has changed since then).
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: kinngrimm on April 17, 2012, 11:54:09 pm
been there posted this http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,553.0.html

have a look also at game mechanics discussion
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1545.0.html

the mother of all guides
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,87133.0.html

a general bit on player attributes
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3947.15.html

more on tactics
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,27.0.html

have a nice reading  :lol:
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 17, 2012, 11:55:03 pm
Shielder can be frustrating till level 25, especially if you're not that skilled yet. Throwing even more so, because evading ranged is soooo easy in this game.

One mistake many shielders make is to wear heavy armor as soon as they have enough STR. If you don't have the athletics up to 5 yet, don't use heavy armor, or you will be circled easily. Read the offensive shielder guide for some tactics (builds are maybe not so relevant anymore, since a lot has changed since then).

What is considered "heavy"? I have a Haubergeon that weights 11.5.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Spawny on April 18, 2012, 12:34:32 pm
What is considered "heavy"? I have a Haubergeon that weights 11.5.

Anything over 15 weight imo, but definatly antyhing weighing 20 and over.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 18, 2012, 09:33:39 pm
Why does everyone seem so goddamn fast compared to me? I'm wearing nothing heavy. Nordic conical helmet 2.3, studded leather coat 6.6, leather gloves .1, mail chausses 1.7, one handed ax 1.5, shield 6.5, my throwing axes 8. Is that just too much combined weapons and shit? I have only 3 athletics atm (lvl 21), but I know those dudes running around in giant soup cans with str builds don't have a ton of athletics.

I don't wanna be wearing  studded coat forever, but unless I'm gonna see considerable gains in speed by getting 2 more in athletics, I don't see how I'll ever be able to wear decent armor and not run like I'm a fat ass.

And a question about throwing...does it ever become somewhat accurate? My axes have a hilarious/annoying tendency to go wherever they please. I'm fine with just learning to try and predict their flight better, but I'm wondering if someone were to go all in on throwing and get really high proficiency and PT, would it become more accurate? Weight doesn't seem to do anything, because I went out in my underpants to experiment and I seemed to gain no accuracy improvement.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Spawny on April 18, 2012, 10:17:33 pm
Depends on where you play. In EU, people generaly have higher athletics than in NA. At least 5-6 seems to be the norm, with quite a number of people pushing 7 or more.

About the throwing: Throwing is done by "feeling" the throw. You use the reticule to know where the center of your screen is and that's about it. The randomness in throwing get's better when you put more wpf into throwing, but it's never going to be very accurate.

Throwing axes fly off a bit below and left to the center of your screen, if you correct for that, your hitrate should improve.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 18, 2012, 11:07:23 pm
Depends on where you play. In EU, people generaly have higher athletics than in NA. At least 5-6 seems to be the norm, with quite a number of people pushing 7 or more.

Why, is there a surfeit of class and self respect in europe where guys don't feel compelled to go all strength and use mauls and shit?

I would prefer to play on EU because then I wouldn't understand half the flaming that goes on in chat. BTW is there a way to get rid of the voice commands so I don't have to hear "protect me", "retreat", "defend the catapult" etc yelled over and over?
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Gimest on April 18, 2012, 11:26:36 pm
U chose a hard build, shielder with throwing aint gonna be outrunning much ppl, if ur having 15 agi and 5 ath with shield and throwing weapons, that just mean's only couple enemies on battlefield will be slower then you.

Alot of ppl have atleast 15 agi, most two handers and polearmers 18 or 21 , and even if they have alot heavier armor then u, ur shield and throwing weapons will slow you down, especially when u have shield up.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Digglez on April 18, 2012, 11:50:41 pm
Why, is there a surfeit of class and self respect in europe where guys don't feel compelled to go all strength and use mauls and shit?

I would prefer to play on EU because then I wouldn't understand half the flaming that goes on in chat. BTW is there a way to get rid of the voice commands so I don't have to hear "protect me", "retreat", "defend the catapult" etc yelled over and over?

QMV will turn it off temporarily for that play session
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: kinngrimm on April 18, 2012, 11:54:08 pm
Why, is there a surfeit of class and self respect in europe where guys don't feel compelled to go all strength and use mauls and shit?
i can only speak for my self, i started 24 generations and 34 1/2 levels ago to go more and more to agi, because i died constantly to 2h and polearm spam or backbeddal spam. Athletics and also a bit more WPM as full concentration on sound and footwork did solve that problem for me.


I would prefer to play on EU because then I wouldn't understand half the flaming that goes on in chat. BTW is there a way to get rid of the voice commands so I don't have to hear "protect me", "retreat", "defend the catapult" etc yelled over and over?
chadz God of this Realm, hear us, we want client site permamute. So that we can honor your givings in peace without flame, out of RP comments or in general don't have to hear all the BS of some disturbingly small minded guys.(to some that may be the crap i pull out of my a**, point still is the same). We don't want to mute the same guys over and over again, or wait till some admin decides that one dude is taking it too far. Ignorance is bliss, client site permanent mute!
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Digglez on April 18, 2012, 11:57:30 pm
chadz God of this Realm, hear us, we want client site permamute. So that we can honor your givings in peace without flame, out of RP comments or in gneral don't have to hear all the BS of some disturbingly small minded guys.(to some that may be the crap i pull out of a**, point still is the same). We don't want to mute the same guys over and over again, or wait till some admin decides that one dude is taking it too far. Ignorance is bliss, client site permanent mute!

re-recording the fucking terrible voices & putting a basic 5 sec flood filter would pretty much solve the problem and require less time than coding a perma-mute function.  but devs dont anticipate kindergarten effort griefing.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: kinngrimm on April 19, 2012, 12:02:02 am
re-recording the fucking terrible voices & putting a basic 5 sec flood filter would pretty much solve the problem and require less time than coding a perma-mute function.  but devs dont anticipate kindergarten effort griefing.
it is not only about voice command spam, they are terrible annoying admitted, but so is the weapon switching some are doing weeeboooo ^^, worse things can be done within the possibilities of words.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 19, 2012, 12:20:11 am
Some of those voice commands have saved my life a couple times when used how they were supposed to, "infantry coming from behind" or whatever. 99.9% of the time though it's just people being annoying.

Same with game chat, some people will be cool and say some funny shit, but most of it is flaming, insults, endless bitching, requests for people to be banned etc etc...yeah it's the internet, but there is like a meanness in this mod that is kind of a bummer. If the mod wasn't so addicting I'd probably have stopped playing based on the oppressive player atmosphere.

Native is much more easy going, but it just has a hollow feeling after I played this.

People seem super nice for the most part on the forums, or maybe I'm in the wrong forum and all the bitching assery is elsewhere.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: BlindGuy on April 19, 2012, 12:23:29 am
i can only speak for my self, i started 24 generations and 34 1/2 levels ago to go more and more to agi, because i died constantly to 2h and polearm spam or backbeddal spam. Athletics and also a bit more WPM as full concentration on sound and footwork did solve that problem for me.


I have to agree with Kinn, despite that I hate his pick with a passion I usually reserve for the ladies. Many players here are hurting you, as a new player, by suggesting builds with 15 AGI. As a new player, with a shield (shields are very heavy and slow you a lot), you are making the game so hard for yourself with such low agility. I would sugest 15/21:

5 PS
7 shield, athletics and WM.

This will give you 150 wpf in 1handed, and another almost 90 to chuck into polearms, or throwing, or crossbows, to have a little bit of anticav/range abilities, and you can chuck your skillpoints left over into PT, or riding, or IF.

This may not be the most hardhitting build, but there is NO point in being able to kill enemies in 1hit if you never even get to hit them. This is a support role mostly untill you are a more experienced player, take some hits on your shield while you manouver enemies into a bad place so your teammates can destroy them with 2handers and poleaxes. with 7 shield you can catch a fair few arows before your shield gives out aswell, letting you rush the shooter, or keep a teammate safe while he reloads a crossbow.

REMEMBER: This game only shows Kills, and Deaths, but your teammates and yourself will know when you have helped them get a win, and they WILL apreciate you saving them from arrows, landing blows on enemies backs, and leaping over horsemen who have fallen, saving them from certain death while they lie on the ground mourning their horsey.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 19, 2012, 12:29:03 am
Why is my head always being clouded with doubts about my build  :|
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: rustyspoon on April 19, 2012, 12:33:19 am
Why is my head always being clouded with doubts about my build  :|

Honestly you shouldn't worry much about your build until you get the playstyle down. People have posted some pretty solid builds on here already. Until you get more used to the mechanics and how CRPG plays maximizing your build isn't such a big deal. Also, the way you tailor your build has a lot to do with your preferred playstyle anyway. The more you play the more you'll tweak your build anyway to fit your playstyle.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Ronin on April 19, 2012, 12:39:24 am
Why is my head always being clouded with doubts about my build  :|
That is the bittersweet part of cRPG, get used to it :)
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 19, 2012, 12:43:36 am
That is the bittersweet part of cRPG, get used to it :)

Every time I think I'm settled on something, someone comes around and goes "hey bro, you're doing it all wrong...".
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: kinngrimm on April 19, 2012, 12:49:53 am
Every time I think I'm settled on something, someone comes around and goes "hey bro, you're doing it all wrong...".
i won't give you a build, if you want one from me you can find mine in the "solid builds" section somewhere inbetween page 15-18. But it just doesn't matter.
If you like this mod and with generation 2 i believe you are pretty much hooked  :lol:
that then but implies many more generations to come and one of the awesome things about crpg are exactly these generations.
You do improve your gear over time. You tweak your build into other directions and when a new generation is started you know from the last one what you enjoyed and what not so you tweak your build again till you are pretty close to what you feel is perfect for yourself.
Use this if you haven't got it yet http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm

enjoy


Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 19, 2012, 12:53:45 am
i won't give you a build, if you want one from me you can find mine in the "solid builds" section somewhere inbetween page 15-18. But it just doesn't matter.
If you like this mod and with generation 2 i believe you are pretty much hooked  :lol:
that then but implies many more generations to come and one of the awesome things about crpg are exactly these generations.
You do improve your gear over time. You tweak your build into other directions and when a new generation is started you know from the last one what you enjoyed and what not so you tweak your build again till you are pretty close to what you feel is perfect for yourself.
Use this if you haven't got it yet http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm

enjoy

I have more money than I know what to do with...that's the frustrating thing...I cannot put it to any use.

This is the best agility build I can devise for what I want to do, and it seems like i have very little hitpoints. I want at least 4 throwing.

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 15
Agility: 21
Hit points: 56
Skills to attributes: 2
Ironflesh: 3
Power Strike: 5
Shield: 6
Athletics: 7
Power Throw: 4
Weapon Master: 5
One Handed: 124
Throwing: 100
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Grumbs on April 19, 2012, 01:24:22 am
Don't worry too much about it at gen 1..You will get to level 31 and get to start all over again from lvl 1 with ~600k free gold. That you can then put towards a ~1.6mil item

Your build won't be what lets you down at this point, you will just be learning to play and as long as its a functional build that covers your main areas it will be fine
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 19, 2012, 01:30:01 am
If having 7 athletics is clearly better than having 7 PS I'd like to know now.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: kinngrimm on April 19, 2012, 01:39:00 am
If having 7 athletics is clearly better than having 7 PS I'd like to know now.
Are you good or even very good at manual blocking? yes => you can use less shieldskill and less ath
Do you want to be on the flancs, hunt ranged runners, be mobile to get involved in places with medium to large walking distances, be out of weaponsreach and into weapons reach to your own liking and the disliking of your foe? if yes to these points up ath
If you you are sure you get a strike out and you want to make that one count then up str.

Str or Agi none of these are clearly better then each of it. That is what we are trying to say to you. Playstyle is about personal choice. Choices you can do over and over again, with each generation again till you would go for maximum level and then would be able to calculate on a broader spectrum attributes and skills into your build.

EDIT: the bare minimum in athletics out of my POV is 6 athletics. The bare minimum for strength depends strongly on the weapon you use
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 19, 2012, 01:43:08 am
I suck at manual blocking. Badly.

So I guess agility is where I should go for now? How is the build I put up? I use 1 handed weapons like broad 1 handed ax, nord champion sword and rarely the steel pick.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Digglez on April 19, 2012, 01:53:26 am
Why is my head always being clouded with doubts about my build  :|

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 19, 2012, 01:56:44 am
You're right

(click to show/hide)

But I ask a question about speed, or anything really, and I get unsolicited recommendations to change my build...almost like I'm doomed unless I do this or that.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: kinngrimm on April 19, 2012, 02:25:38 am
You're right

(click to show/hide)

But I ask a question about speed, or anything really, and I get unsolicited recommendations to change my build...almost like I'm doomed unless I do this or that.
how about the following.
You posted a 21 str 15 agi built at first. Go for it.
In a couple of weeks or if you play very often on a daily base then a lot sooner you go for 18/18. Then afterwards you go for 15/21 ... 12/24 ... 9/27 perhaps even 6 str 30 agi

while you do these generations you can test out 6-10 ath 6-10 shieldskill. The differences you will see are remarkable. But not cheap to invest.
You will miss  out totaly on IF with the later builts as when you got f.e. 8+ shieldskill that is a tough bitch to break and only if you make a mistake(experience will tell you what i am talking about) you will die fast otherwise you have a fucking shield that can take a beating.
between 6 and 8 ath is a niticable difference as with 8 to 10. Test it experience it.

You will need at least 18 generations if you want to full set of armor and 1h/sh to be masterwork. With hitting gen 15 you will ahve the biggest xp bonus for mutlipliers possible. Then you decide do you want to loom more stuff and perhaps get your smithingskills up so you do more generations and at a certain point you may go for max level. That all depends on how much time also you are able and crazy as hell enough to invest in this game.

Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: rustyspoon on April 19, 2012, 02:27:20 am
But I ask a question about speed, or anything really, and I get unsolicited recommendations to change my build...almost like I'm doomed unless I do this or that.

No, you're not doomed and you shouldn't worry about your build much. As long as your build is pretty balanced (it is) you're fine for your first gen. I honestly wouldn't go below 6 ps for your first gen as a 1-hander or you'll probably run into problems with glancing. Once you learn good footwork you can do okay with 4ps with a 1-hander. Really your first couple of gens are just about learning the mechanics. Don't stress about your build right now. Especially when you consider that the builds that people are giving you are coming from their own personal preferences.

On your next gen just experiment with your build a bit more and do that again with subsequent gens. People are always posting up builds, but the only way to learn what build is right for you is to try out different ones.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Grumbs on April 19, 2012, 02:27:35 am
If people said there was only one way to build then that would suggest big balance issues. Just depends on various factors, preference and since its capped you can't be the best in all areas. You have to sacrifice one thing for another, in this case manoeuvrability or damage or a mix. For eg. Kinngrimm's style is very defensive and fighting outnumbered, so he has high shield skill and can manuevre fast and choose when to engage or disengage. Someone else might not mind going slower and will want to kill in fewer hits instead. Kingrimm has like 4PS but high piercing weapon so does decent damage regardless though, but its quite short range I guess

You just have to go with a build and then play to your strengths and be aware of your weaknesses
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: kinngrimm on April 19, 2012, 03:49:11 am
If people said there was only one way to build then that would suggest big balance issues. Just depends on various factors, preference and since its capped you can't be the best in all areas. You have to sacrifice one thing for another, in this case manoeuvrability or damage or a mix. For eg. Kinngrimm's style is very defensive and fighting outnumbered, so he has high shield skill and can manuevre fast and choose when to engage or disengage. Someone else might not mind going slower and will want to kill in fewer hits instead. Kingrimm has like 4PS but high piercing weapon so does decent damage regardless though, but its quite short range I guess

You just have to go with a build and then play to your strengths and be aware of your weaknesses

nice that some guys get what i try to do :) yes playstyle is the answer and you build and work actively on your playstyle over several generations. Till you found out what works best for you, what you want to focus on, what purpose you want to fullfill. If these things are answered you will know for yourself what stats you'd like to have and with what disadvantages you can live or work around them.

for me as mentioned it is very important to choose where, when and against whom i do engage. Surly getting peopel of guard gives you perhaps a kill or 1-2 free strikes, but often those who are not paying attention to their sorrounding have friends close by, if those then come chasing at you, you can either cut&run which is mostly unsatisfying to me  :mrgreen: so i needed to find ways to survive ...


till gen 3 i was thrower/1h/sh hybrid , and well got most kills out of throwing which means i sucked at 1h/sh. But i liked the shielder them so i got rid of throwing.
Also getting killed by 2h spam was annoying as you perhaps know that by defenition of gamemechanics there is a attack and a block phase, someone who keeps attacking after his first attack spams, but not in his attack pahse, so normaly the other dude should hit him, but there is backpeddeling and there where awesome weapons like the meanwhile corrected long hafted blade ... all of that brought me to more agi/wpm/ath
Then i was just annoyed by those mass clusterfucks still with XP buble(you got xp only when people got killed close to you) with soooo much teamdamge. That turned me more and more to the flanks. On the flanks i faced 3 major opponents. Cav, Ranged and Ninjas.
All of these again brought me more to ath till i ended up on a 9/27 build with huscarl/sitesword/bamboo and light leather gear. I was killing a lot less then today but the combination was awesome  8-) after a big respec i ended up with gen 16 less loomed gear but totally new gear loomed and my new weapon of choice was soon afterwards the steel pick. Vic666 always told me like that is the weapon no other weapon. After testing it for 1-2 generations i adjusted my build to even more ath for facehug and well i still use it. (man do i miss the good old siteword, much more versatile and fun to play, fuck you devs for nerving it into the ground)
What i am just telling you is a short history and how different experiences changed my perspective and therefor my playstyle. That all can be totally different on your site. Don't be afraid to test out. In the 26 generations i had there were at least 4-7 total fucked up builds in ... so what i still ahd fun testing them and afterwards i knew what not to do in the future.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Ronin on April 19, 2012, 02:34:50 pm
Kinngrimm your style of playing seems like doing art. That's what I was trying to do at my second gen, but due to a strange build I attempted to make I think I couldn't be as much effective as you. My build was 18/21 6 PS, 7 Ath, 5 shield, 5 weapon master. Not a bad build I say, but I never see any other guy tried the same build. At first I was pissed off at my choice of class, due to the considerably low damage. But after I realized, I have to play a bit more strategically. I did wonders with my non-loomed italian falchion and non-loomed long espada. In crowds, I was able to hold my block and hit at the right moment to kill the enemy. Not to mention, shielder class is the best class to not hit your teammates in a total chaos. Also, high athletics and shield is golden for multicombat something that is one of the most satisfying when you are succesful. Yeah, if pasting a throwing axe to the head of my foe comes first; killing 3 opponents by myself comes second in terms of satisfaction :)

Well, oh... what I was saying? Ahha! If your warband is automatically updated, you may try to play some native multiplayer nowadays perhaps. For me, it is much more stable to learn the game mechanics. In native, everyone is equal and it shows which player is actually the best. In cRPG there are level 35 ninjas with mw katana, mw body armor, mw boots, mw gloves, mw head armor, mw boots and mw snowflakes who are actually nothing but spammers in Nditions duel server. Well, they are not spammer noobs in Nditions but that's what they do in cRPG for sure. So, go to native. It may seem dubious and limited at first, but in my opinion it is better.

Edit: I think there is another piece of advice I can give. Since you are first gen, you have no loomed weapons. Therefore carrying 2-3 different kind of weapons -let's say steel pick, broad axe, espada eslavona- might increase your flexibility. It's going to be a total chaos, pick steel pick and short length will be your avantage; an enemy shielder is coming towards you, grab your axe and tear it's shield to pieces; a lightly armored foe is coming, pick espada eslavona and do some superfast thrust attacks. Considering all of one handed weapons are one slot, and are not heavy; this might not do you harm after all. Also, it is a good way to find out which weapon is better for your liking; therefore which build suits more to your liking.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Spawny on April 19, 2012, 03:52:13 pm
Kinngrimm your style of playing seems like doing art. That's what I was trying to do at my second gen, but due to a strange build I attempted to make I think I couldn't be as much effective as you. My build was 18/21 6 PS, 7 Ath, 5 shield, 5 weapon master. Not a bad build I say, but I never see any other guy tried the same build.

My build in 1 level :)
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: kinngrimm on April 19, 2012, 05:12:40 pm
Kinngrimm your style of playing seems like doing art.
:oops: thank you (flattery definetly works for me  :D)

... But after I realized, I have to play a bit more strategically. I did wonders with my non-loomed italian falchion and non-loomed long espada. In crowds, I was able to hold my block and hit at the right moment to kill the enemy.
yes indeed. Gear and build only carries you a short distance. If you rely only on that you a re dead meat from the start of the round. There are always chances to solve a puzzle which is in motion, we train ourselves to see the patterns when/where/against whom to take action.

Not to mention, shielder class is the best class to not hit your teammates in a total chaos. Also, high athletics and shield is golden for multicombat something that is one of the most satisfying when you are succesful. Yeah, if pasting a throwing axe to the head of my foe comes first; killing 3 opponents by myself comes second in terms of satisfaction :)
i also started as throwing hybrid, now i got my shielder and a 4th gen thrower. Throwing is definetly fun, but killing 2+ Opponents with 1h/shield coems first for myself =)

Well, oh... what I was saying? Ahha! If your warband is automatically updated, you may try to play some native multiplayer nowadays perhaps. For me, it is much more stable to learn the game mechanics. In native, everyone is equal and it shows which player is actually the best. In cRPG there are level 35 ninjas with mw katana, mw body armor, mw boots, mw gloves, mw head armor, mw boots and mw snowflakes who are actually nothing but spammers in Nditions duel server. Well, they are not spammer noobs in Nditions but that's what they do in cRPG for sure. So, go to native. It may seem dubious and limited at first, but in my opinion it is better.
last time in November, was on 140(?) slot filled up server over several maps within top 5, i just don't want to stop grinding xp for too long :) 55million to lvl 35 ^^ damn addiction

Edit: I think there is another piece of advice I can give. Since you are first gen, you have no loomed weapons. Therefore carrying 2-3 different kind of weapons -let's say steel pick, broad axe, espada eslavona- might increase your flexibility. It's going to be a total chaos, pick steel pick and short length will be your avantage; an enemy shielder is coming towards you, grab your axe and tear it's shield to pieces; a lightly armored foe is coming, pick espada eslavona and do some superfast thrust attacks. Considering all of one handed weapons are one slot, and are not heavy; this might not do you harm after all. Also, it is a good way to find out which weapon is better for your liking; therefore which build suits more to your liking.
if you lay out your build, it is most likely also for a specific weapon, if you then have weapons with similar characteristics which give additional advantage yes go for it. I got myself a Broad One Handed Battle Axe,too. I mostly dont use it bcz on cav maps i have a warspear for anticav with me, but on citymaps or in general, maps with lots of close spaces or steep hills where cav cant really navigate i take the luxury to get my axe equiped and my huscarl
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: San on April 20, 2012, 08:34:33 am
Also one important thing to note is you don't need to limit yourself to what your character is proficient with.

If you carry a war spear with you, that is sheathable and helps defend you from cavalry if you use it with a shield, even with 1 wpf. I definitely recommend choosing between a sheathable spear or an axe as your secondary weapon. If you're low on cash, even the cheapo axes work brilliantly enough.


Above lvl 30, lvl 32+ shielder build makes it much better since you attain enough agility for shield and movement, yet also achieve the damage output and health that other 1hers are sorely lacking. I think it's entirely viable after looming your weapon, since shield can cover you most of the time anyways vs multiple opponents, and against single opponents the loomed armor won't make much of a difference most of the time.

@kinngrimm
lvl 34 steel pick user here, lvl 34 is much fun , I agree (and op). 79 million to lvl 35 myself... Hybridizing with 1h/shield (131 1h / 95 polearm) offers plenty of variety, since you can protect yourself from ranged while also having extra points to venture to other classes quite nicely; many of the other classes synergize well with 1h.  Instead of throwing, I went with cav for a 24/15 1h/hoplite cav with the regular lance since I've never done melee cav before and was already part polearm.  At lvl 35 I may put a few points into throwing since there is nothing left to put points in. Lance isn't sheathable but it is a great hoplite weapon in my opinion.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Ronin on April 20, 2012, 11:32:32 am
My build in 1 level :)
You mean 1st generation I think :D

And kingrimm thanks for your post. I personally got bored to play as a shielder and tried a different class, that I do not like to use short weapons and without a shield, I was much more better with my manual block. But after being tried different builds I see now, playing as a shilder was an unique experience. I definitely did not regret it playing. But it was just not for me methinks.

And san, I do not think if you maxed all of the skills you supposedly have (shield, athletics, power strike, Ironflesh, riding, weapon master) but I would not recommend having 3 power throw skill. With 3 power throw, I do not think it would offer much to you at that level. Additionally, since you will have 2-3 slots filled with your shield+onehand+spear it would leave you with only one slot. Which makes it useless in my opinion. Throwing is a bit luck based compared to other abilities and without much ammo, you may find it very useless. In case you haven't maxed out the skills I listed, you better go max them first. Just saying.
By the way, I tried to guess what kind of build you did go for at the character planner. But I failed. If you'd like to share your build, I am eager to see it :)
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: PanPan on April 20, 2012, 01:59:42 pm
You mean 1st generation I think :D

And kingrimm thanks for your post. I personally got bored to play as a shielder and tried a different class, that I do not like to use short weapons and without a shield, I was much more better with my manual block. But after being tried different builds I see now, playing as a shilder was an unique experience. I definitely did not regret it playing. But it was just not for me methinks.

And san, I do not think if you maxed all of the skills you supposedly have (shield, athletics, power strike, Ironflesh, riding, weapon master) but I would not recommend having 3 power throw skill. With 3 power throw, I do not think it would offer much to you at that level. Additionally, since you will have 2-3 slots filled with your shield+onehand+spear it would leave you with only one slot. Which makes it useless in my opinion. Throwing is a bit luck based compared to other abilities and without much ammo, you may find it very useless. In case you haven't maxed out the skills I listed, you better go max them first. Just saying.
By the way, I tried to guess what kind of build you did go for at the character planner. But I failed. If you'd like to share your build, I am eager to see it :)

He means He's going to ahve that build in one lvl.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 20, 2012, 09:32:11 pm
I decided to put my throwing weapons away and focus on melee. This way I can do athletics and wear heavier armor and not worry about throwing penalty. What should be my alternate weapon? I'm thinking a spear.

I find myself actually doing better not trying to play two roles, a thrower and a melee fighter. Just being a melee fighter keeps me more focused.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Spawny on April 20, 2012, 10:10:43 pm
He means He's going to ahve that build in one lvl.

Exactly.

I'm at 18/18 5 IF, 6 PS, 5 Shield, 6 Athletics and 6 WM now. Level 32 will be 18/21 with 7 athletics.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Ronin on April 20, 2012, 10:52:00 pm
I did that madness at level 30 :P
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Spawny on April 21, 2012, 12:34:11 am
I've got a +3 broad one handed battle axe to match the build :)

High footspeed and enough damage to hurt people.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 21, 2012, 01:32:48 am
How does this build look?

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 18
Agility: 18
Hit points: 63
Skills to attributes: 2
Ironflesh: 5
Power Strike: 6
Shield: 6
Athletics: 6
Weapon Master: 6
One Handed: 135
Polearm: 101

Would I be able to wear heavy armor with this and still move reasonably well, or would something with 7 athletics be better if I plan on wearing heavy armor?
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Gurnisson on April 21, 2012, 02:09:25 am
It's decent. 1 more IF instead of that last WM point though. Best build imo is 18/21 with low IF and WM but full ath and ps but that's only better when you get more experience. 21/15 or 18/18 are good places to start.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Shatter on April 21, 2012, 02:28:20 am
Would I be able to wear heavy armor with this and still move reasonably well, or would something with 7 athletics be better if I plan on wearing heavy armor?
Don't worry about wearing heavy armor or not. No matter how much athletics you have, its almost always better for a shielder to have a body armor under 15 or 16 weight. And as others have said, stay above 6 PS. Since you are new, you are more likely glance a lot at 5 PS.

Just find a build and stick with it. After your first gen, you will have an understanding of the game and know whether you want more agi or str and can make a build more suited to your playstyle. 
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Digglez on April 21, 2012, 02:37:03 am
why bother with polearms as a shielder? throwing weapons basically accomplish the same thing (anti-cav), plus you can use them against infantry as well.

ranged > crappy spears
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: zagibu on April 21, 2012, 02:45:41 am
You have a shield, why do you need armor?
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Shatter on April 21, 2012, 02:52:17 am
why bother with polearms as a shielder? throwing weapons basically accomplish the same thing (anti-cav), plus you can use them against infantry as well.

ranged > crappy spears
Well, throwing is better anti-cav but you can use polearms to support in melee fights against infantry. I don't think throwing on a shielder is very strong against other non-archer infantry unless there are a few other shielder throwers with him like how you NH guys roll around and throw axes in mass. A lone shielder with throwing axes is almost ignorable.

It's probably better for him to just pick a build whether its pure 1h/with throwing/with polearms and just play it through for a gen. When he finishes it, he will have a better idea of what build he should go for his next build according to his preferences.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Zanze on April 21, 2012, 02:53:04 am
You have a shield, why do you need armor?

Many times I've charged into a group of 6+ with my pal Blackwhite. He wears heavy armor all the time, I wear crappy mail. More often than not(when we walk out alive...), I walk out alive and he does not. Difference? I have a big piece of mahogany between myself and the enemy.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 21, 2012, 03:09:42 am
why bother with polearms as a shielder? throwing weapons basically accomplish the same thing (anti-cav), plus you can use them against infantry as well.

ranged > crappy spears

Throwing was screwing up my mindset, I never knew what I should be doing...hanging back trying to throw or going up and fighting. Since I've dropped throwing I am doing better having only to focus on one thing. When I am better I'll go back to that, as I like it in theory...I was just poor at putting it into practice.

When I say heavy armor, I mean Sipahi Yawshan or something with 18.5 weight MAX. I am wearing a studded leather coat atm.

I don't think throwing on a shielder is very strong against other non-archer infantry unless there are a few other shielder throwers with him like how you NH guys roll around and throw axes in mass. A lone shielder with throwing axes is almost ignorable.

That pretty much sums it up. At least my experience. It's awesome when I stick an axe in someones head, but it's not worth devoting 4 skill points and tactical decision making to...at least when I'm not very good. I'm by myself, it is just too difficult.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Shatter on April 21, 2012, 03:12:44 am
Throwing was screwing up my mindset, I never knew what I should be doing...hanging back trying to throw or going up and fighting. Since I've dropped throwing I am doing better having only to focus on one thing. When I am better I'll go back to that, as I like it in theory...I was just poor at putting it into practice.

When I say heavy armor, I mean Sipahi Yawshan or something with 18.5 weight MAX. I am wearing a studded leather coat atm.
You can try out both armors and see which one you prefer. For me, the Sipahi Yawshan would be too heavy as a shielder. But maybe you will like it over a lighter armor. When you hit 30, try one day with one armor, and another day with the other armor.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 21, 2012, 03:21:08 am
Well, I lost the throwing axes which were 8 pounds combined. I figured that would allow me to use some heavier armor.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: BlindGuy on April 21, 2012, 04:55:52 am
Well, tbh, if you can stand how ugly it is, studded leather is one of the best armour to weight gears around. Will save you from most 1hits, and is still light enough that you can chase down pesky archers. combine with a mail coif and it is a good look imo.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Mlekce on April 23, 2012, 09:42:32 pm
nordic champion sword is it worth looming?
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Turboflex on April 23, 2012, 10:08:27 pm
Nordic champ is solid balance of speed, range and slashing damage (35 for masterwork). it will hit pretty hard with 7 or 8 powerstrike.

Make sure you are VERY comfortable with a weapon before you start looming it tho to save yourself some trouble.

If you are unsure, you can always sell the loompoint for 600k gold, and then later go to market to buy something you know you want to keep (and usually at 350-450k per level, so you pocket the change).
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 23, 2012, 10:12:50 pm
Why is the elite scimitar supposedly so good? I used it and liked it, but it wasn't super awesome or anything. Maybe I'm not good enough to notice or exploit whatever advantages it has.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Ronin on April 23, 2012, 10:18:32 pm
I have tested elite scimitar. Didn't like it much. Where'd you get that it is supposedly good? It doesn't have a stab, which is a big disadvantage for a sword in my opinion.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Mlekce on April 23, 2012, 10:20:35 pm
Nordic champ is solid balance of speed, range and slashing damage (35 for masterwork). it will hit pretty hard with 7 or 8 powerstrike.

Make sure you are VERY comfortable with a weapon before you start looming it tho to save yourself some trouble.

If you are unsure, you can always sell the loompoint for 600k gold, and then later go to market to buy something you know you want to keep (and usually at 350-450k per level, so you pocket the change).

Dunno mate i bought it cheap from market and now i have +1 destrier and +1 champ so i don't know what to loom. I would like to try again 1h with proper build (21/15) so i beleve it should be ok. I beleve even if i don't like it i would be able to trade it for lance cuz i am cav,not footman.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Mlekce on April 23, 2012, 10:22:19 pm
Scimitars are bad i had them bouth masterworked and it glanced a lot. It is great to kill archers and low armor dudes,but if you try to attack plate user u are fucked. I don't think that scimitar is footman sword i think it is cav sword.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 23, 2012, 10:39:06 pm
Someone said it and the pick were overpowered cheese weapons.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Mlekce on April 23, 2012, 11:02:16 pm
warhammer is mega awsome weapon. It is short and slower but it hits like a train,
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 23, 2012, 11:11:23 pm
Never tried that one, I'm looking for a good pair with my pole, I spec both 1 handed and pole.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Turboflex on April 24, 2012, 12:08:28 am
people call scimi and pick cheap because you can spam them. Curved weapons used to have a glitchy hitbox that helped so they have that rep, but I think it's been fixed up. People dislike steel pick because it's fast, and hurts a lot, but people who use it really need to know their footwork & timing to do well with such short length (same with warhammer).
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 24, 2012, 12:13:06 am
I see, thanks.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Ronin on April 24, 2012, 08:25:00 am
People doesn't seem to be listening me but you should definetely try italian falchion. So much power for that little thing. 34c hurts a lot, and the length is ok in sieges.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Ophelica on April 24, 2012, 10:47:03 am
Hello,
I have a question that the OP might have on his mind; and am having the same troubles as OP, we're in the same boat of "GOING THROUGH THE MOTIONS!"

Just started cRPG myself and I am loving it; but I find my success in-game has DRASTICALLY changed. My ratio is horrid and I feel quite nooby! But it's Magical to say the least and I want to improve!

ANYWAY,
The question is; what would a great balanced shield be for your first GEN? I've seen Rustyspoon, I love his play style and how quick he is! Great Shielder from what I've seen man!

Thanks everyone!
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: RiPLeY_II on April 24, 2012, 10:56:41 am
I see people giving you advice on weapons and builds suitable for veteran shielders, not taking into account who asked for the advice ...

As a veteran shielder myself, with many generations in a row beforer going max level, best advice i can tell a noob shielder is that you  stick with a 18/18 build with 6 ath, 6wm, 6ps,6shield and 5 if, and use a 1h sword that is LONG (nordic champion's sword, knighly arming sword, italian sword), and a durable shield (Huscarl, heavy heather, heavy kite). With short weapons, you'll end up hitting the air many times, as you still don't have the right timing and you'll open your defense, and you still don't have the footwork needed to use them  properly (you'll get it in the future). The build I told you is reasonably quick and reasonably strong and durable for a starter. Don't go hybrid with throwing or anything else, first try to learn one style, then you can try another.

Use a medium armor, something in the 37-43 non-loomed armor stat (not more than 13 kg). It won't punish your movement as much as heavy and gives more than enough protection for a shielder. But buy the good shield and weapon before the armor, they'll be far more useful.

Use it for 2 generations till you get the mechanics, then you can experiment yourself, use another builds or shorter and more powerful weapons, but for now, use the standard build I told you which is the one you'll get more benefits from.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Ophelica on April 24, 2012, 11:32:35 am
Thanks Ripley!
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Vibe on April 24, 2012, 11:44:26 am
use a 1h sword that is LONG (nordic champion's sword, knighly arming sword, italian sword)

Italian is not that long.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: RiPLeY_II on April 24, 2012, 12:38:37 pm
Italian is not that long.

98, it's long for 1h standards (not for 1h swords), being the longest 1h 105. People are talking here of using italian falchion or warhammer (70 and 65), which are obviously short and inadequate for begginers.

Anything beyond 95 should work, i was only telling him some examples of good swords he can use in his first generations to learn the mechanics.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Phazey on April 24, 2012, 02:45:23 pm
Some good advice in this thread.

Tip for fighting tincans with a 1h sword: try overheads. It's harder to hit, but doesn't glance as much as the side swings. Also: try holding it a bit for extra power... if the situation allows.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Turboflex on April 24, 2012, 05:38:08 pm
Work combos also. try an overhead, and even if he parries try to get in a fast backhand (left to right) swing. Something about the overhead parry animation is slow so he will have trouble getting a counter. If you land it then try a right swing.

People who aren't top notch blockers have a lot of problems with variable combos like that.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Phew on April 24, 2012, 06:45:38 pm
If you are fighting someone that is aware of you (1v1-type situation), only use left swings and overheads. Right swing is for unaware folks that are on the outside of your reach and as an opener if you are approaching someone with less reach than you; it's just too slow and glance-prone for 1v1. Thrust is glitchy as hell, and its unpredictable hitbox will drive you crazy, but if you can master 1h thrust you will be deadly.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 24, 2012, 08:43:28 pm
Thanks Ripley

(click to show/hide)

I'm already specced 60/40 1hand/pole...well not 60/40 yet, but I already have about 70 points in pole and I'm not respeccing. I'm still undecided about 21/15 or 18/18, but hopefully I make the right choice. Thanks again for that and everyone else who has helped me, especially San and Digglez (I just couldn't get good with throwing  :()

If I did go 18/18, which would I get to 18 first, STR or AGI?
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Turboflex on April 24, 2012, 09:06:46 pm
I would get to 12 AGI first (to use a 4 skill shield and get WPF to a good level), then 18 STR so you can get your hits some beef, then 18 AGI to round it out.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 24, 2012, 09:21:06 pm
I would get to 12 AGI first (to use a 4 skill shield and get WPF to a good level), then 18 STR so you can get your hits some beef, then 18 AGI to round it out.

Looks good.

Whats more valuable since I split 1 hand and pole, 1 stat will need to be 5 instead of 6....should it be IF, WM or shield that I leave at 5? I was thinking if I'm split then maybe WM would be more valuable than 2 hp from ironflesh.

This is my final build, I think I will finish up 18/18:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: rustyspoon on April 25, 2012, 01:08:40 am
Looks good.

Whats more valuable since I split 1 hand and pole, 1 stat will need to be 5 instead of 6....should it be IF, WM or shield that I leave at 5? I was thinking if I'm split then maybe WM would be more valuable than 2 hp from ironflesh.

This is my final build, I think I will finish up 18/18:

(click to show/hide)

I agree with going 6 WM and 5 IF. 2 hp isn't a big deal. However, you'd benefit more from 135 in polearm and 101 in 1-hand. Or go even on each. Faster weapons benefit less from WPF than slower weapons.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: RiPLeY_II on April 25, 2012, 08:24:40 am
Looks good.

Whats more valuable since I split 1 hand and pole, 1 stat will need to be 5 instead of 6....should it be IF, WM or shield that I leave at 5? I was thinking if I'm split then maybe WM would be more valuable than 2 hp from ironflesh.

This is my final build, I think I will finish up 18/18:

(click to show/hide)

It looks ok to me. You don't need more wpf in polearm, as you'll end up using it only in 1h-mode (hoplite) vs. cavalry to stop them, which is its main use for a shielder. You could even live with less wpf in polearm (80-90).

That's a pretty good build for a 1h starter.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: LordSnow on April 25, 2012, 10:08:25 am
It's THE best build for 1h at all if you stay lvl 30. Go for 18/21 or 21/18 at lvl 32/33 and you'll be op.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: kinngrimm on April 25, 2012, 12:27:19 pm
Some good advice in this thread.

Tip for fighting tincans with a 1h sword: try overheads. It's harder to hit, but doesn't glance as much as the side swings. Also: try holding it a bit for extra power... if the situation allows.
before the armor soaking values had been changed i would have gone only with stab/thrust attack, not sure if they are still the best option against tincans though.

additional dmg can be done not only by holding an attack but also by moving into a strike. Move from left to right for the left strike , from right to left for the right strike, forwards for stab/thrust attack and jump in combination with overheads where you release the overhead so that it hits in the falling sequence.

Other skills you wanna learn.
- basic blocking(without movement first, later with movement then afterwards include feinting)
- feint attack tab - block tab - attack tab - block tab ... that also combined with left/right/upper/thrust attacks
- kickslashes
- jump stab against horses
- target switching against more enemies
- pan/armor/360° view in combination with zoom
- patience
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Zanze on April 26, 2012, 05:52:03 am
Other skills you wanna learn.
- HEADSHOTS
- basic blocking(without movement first, later with movement then afterwards include feinting)
- feint attack tab - block tab - attack tab - block tab ... that also combined with left/right/upper/thrust attacks
- kickslashes
- jump stab against horses
- target switching against more enemies
- pan/armor/360° view in combination with zoom
- patience

Fixed this for you. The lifeblood of 1h weapon damage is headshots(imo). ESPECIALLY if you use a cutting sword instead of a stabbing one. But headshots, no one suspects that puny 30cut sword will take off 20-40% of their 80 health in a single swing when it pokes their face. Tincan no helmet? One hit kill.

To do this, left to right swing is the easiest. Once you get the feel for where to swing, you'll headshot almost every time. Overheads are a little easier, just angle the downward swipe on the center of their body and it should hit. (Not as reliable as left-right). Right to left feels retarded at times, almost as if your going to miss. Don't recommend it. Thrusts... don't worry about headshotting with them for long. I couldn't do it until I played a piker for a gen.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Alskaer_Alvari on April 26, 2012, 06:53:05 pm
I´ll add a little question here:

I don´t really understand the values of shields... what does body armor mean? Does this also influence the hitpoints of shields, or is it added to my armor stats?
I have no idea how the hitboxes in this game work, are height/width important?
What kind of shields are most practical for a 1h infantryman?

Thanks
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: ZEE_BISHOP on April 26, 2012, 08:01:23 pm
I´ll add a little question here:

I don´t really understand the values of shields... what does body armor mean? Does this also influence the hitpoints of shields, or is it added to my armor stats?
I have no idea how the hitboxes in this game work, are height/width important?
What kind of shields are most practical for a 1h infantryman?

Thanks

The armour value has nothing to do with the armour you wear, but it works in a similar concept. It reduces the damage that your shield takes, especially from cutting weapons (except axes of course) and also makes it possible for weapons to glance. If you're facing a bunch of 1H sword users and your have a plate covered round shield, you're laughing in terms of it not breaking this century. But when is that ever the case?

Hitpoints is straight up what the shield can take damage wise, so things like heavy kyte shields and the huscarl shield which can soak up a bunch of ammo.

Speed is the time it takes for your shield to actually block, despite what the animation shows, anything below 100 speed is not blocking you as soon as you press the block button.

Weight is pretty obvious, weight in your hand slows your movement speed a lot and also slows your weapon swing. The flip side is a heavier shield is supposed to have a bigger chance of blocking things like Great mauls. Although, in practice if someone's charging at you with a great maul, it's loomed and he has a build tailored for it -- You'd better not be trying to shield block the mans overheads unless you want a headache.

With weight, think about your armour weight too. Any total weight over 7.5 and you start reducing your WPF by 1 per 1 weight over. Body armour counts as 1x weight, legs as 1x weight, hand as 2x weight and head as 3x weight. If your weapon proficiency gets below 100 WPF after those calculations, then your weapon is not performing as the stats say it should.

Coverage is important too, if a shield isn't covering you, it won't block for you -- Your magic forcefield depending on your shield skill is not infinite. So shields with poor width will allow spamming 2H sworders to spin around you flailing like retards and they might get free hits around the side of your shield. Likewise you could get shot in the foot / head if you have a short shield

So it's entirely down to your play style, want to be a tank? Facing a lot of sword users? Want to be speedy to dart in and out of combat? Got a weapon where you want to get in close and just tap block to know you are blocked?

Consider how much armour you wear and what weapon you intend to use too. Also, how much shield skill you have as that means shields last longer, increase speed and have larger coverage, how much WPF do you have? That can mean you'll be okay with a bigger shield as you can still swing fast. How about athletics and agility too? Then you'll be able to move fast with heavier shields or maybe move super fast with a light shield.

Elite cav shield's a good shield IMO, it also won't break the bank. Depending on your shielding skill it won't snap like a twig when someone looks at it, it isn't crazy heavy, has okay armour, decent coverage and it's 100 speed so it blocks when you tell it to -- You can also use it on horseback and it looks "nice" in my opinion anyway. That being said, it's a bit of a jack of all trades, which in itself is a flaw as it's not "awesome" at any one thing.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: JennaHaze on April 26, 2012, 08:12:36 pm
Take a niuweidao and a round steel buckler wear light armors and use 15-24 build.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Alskaer_Alvari on April 26, 2012, 08:22:47 pm
...


Great answer, thanks!  :) Made things MUCH clearer.

And yeah, round shield buckler... was just considering buying that one...  :o But I think it´s too expensive for now. Until when is an armor considered "light"?
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: ZEE_BISHOP on April 26, 2012, 08:28:08 pm

Great answer, thanks!  :) Made things MUCH clearer.

And yeah, round shield buckler... was just considering buying that one...  :o But I think it´s too expensive for now. Until when is an armor considered "light"?

Anything that adds up to below 7.5 weight, I edited my post above to say about WPF and weight stuff: "Any total weight over 7.5 and you start reducing your WPF by 1 per 1 weight over. Body armour counts as 1x weight, legs as 1x weight, hand as 2x weight and head as 3x weight. If your weapon proficiency gets below 100 WPF after those calculations, then your weapon is not performing as the stats say it should. "
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Alskaer_Alvari on April 26, 2012, 08:34:10 pm

I´m not sure I follow, right now I have:
Nordic Helmet 1.2
Peltastos Armor 6.6
Leather G. 0.1
Rus Cav Boots 0.8 (but they don´t count?)


So I have (3*1.2=)3.6 + 6.6 + (2*0.1=)0.2 = 10.4 weigt, which reduces my wpf by 3 points... correct?
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: ZEE_BISHOP on April 26, 2012, 08:42:17 pm
I´m not sure I follow, right now I have:
Nordic Helmet 1.2
Peltastos Armor 6.6
Leather G. 0.1
Rus Cav Boots 0.8 (but they don´t count?)


So I have (3*1.2=)3.6 + 6.6 + (2*0.1=)0.2 = 10.4 weigt, which reduces my wpf by 3 points... correct?

the boots do count, so 11.2 which means your WPF is reduced by 4%, you're wearing pretty light gear as it is. "light" armour is all the tunics, padded armour, leather etc. "Medium" armour is generally the chain mail stuff and the "heavy" armour is all your top end chain mails / plate armours.

This thread is worth looking at though as it will explain it a lot better than I could! :)

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,23607.0.html
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Alskaer_Alvari on April 26, 2012, 08:46:49 pm
Ok good to know. Though I think I want at least medium armor eventually. It´s no fun to die by 2 hits at best. I only use the gear I use because I don´t have much cash  :mrgreen:
And yeah, I´ll read through that thread for sure. Thanks for the help
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Turboflex on April 26, 2012, 08:54:18 pm
For an infantryman, shields that are not usable on horseback are generally good deals.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: ZEE_BISHOP on April 26, 2012, 08:57:24 pm
Ok good to know. Though I think I want at least medium armor eventually. It´s no fun to die by 2 hits at best. I only use the gear I use because I don´t have much cash  :mrgreen:
And yeah, I´ll read through that thread for sure. Thanks for the help

NP, good luck as a shielder.

RE: the extra armour, it's a double edged sword. Some people are of the opinion that your shield should be your armour and you should wear paper around. I guess it depends on your play style, but if you intend to dodge and weave in groups of people, you're going to take a couple of hits here and there and the light gear doesn't cut it. That being said, you can't afford to bring a heavy shield and super heavy armour if you expect to chase down AGI whores or not get super spammed by people with high WPF.  :P

I hope you have at least 18 AGI / 6 ATH / 6 WM and 6/7 PS though or you're setting yourself up for a world of hurt and whining.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: San on April 26, 2012, 11:31:02 pm
I think you only need a good helmet.

You can wear mediocre body and still take a good 3 hits if you have 6-8 ironflesh, while having good head armor prevents all that bonus to head damage that may 1shot you.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: ZEE_BISHOP on April 26, 2012, 11:44:36 pm
I think you only need a good helmet.

You can wear mediocre body and still take a good 3 hits if you have 6-8 ironflesh, while having good head armor prevents all that bonus to head damage that may 1shot you.

8 iron flesh on a shielder? I had 6 on mine before and I totally regretted having that much, I guess you can do your builds however you want though but IMO ironflesh should be the last stat you even think of adding to as a shielder... If you've got AGI up enough you can have 4~ iron flesh and couple it with some armour, that way people at least can glance off of you. But that's just my opinion, I guess.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Alskaer_Alvari on April 26, 2012, 11:44:49 pm
Take a niuweidao and a round steel buckler wear light armors and use 15-24 build.

Wow yeah I fell for that one, didn´t I
Seriously, is that round steel buckler a joke item to piss of newbies or something?
Can´t believe I spent 7000 on that thing  :cry:
It breaks faster then my Nordic Shield and good lord, the size of that thing...
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: ZEE_BISHOP on April 26, 2012, 11:50:19 pm
Wow yeah I fell for that one, didn´t I
Seriously, is that round steel buckler a joke item to piss of newbies or something?
Can´t believe I spent 7000 on that thing  :cry:
It breaks faster then my Nordic Shield and good lord, the size of that thing...

You need high shielding to pull that thing off, then it has more HP / a larger "forcefield" to catch ranged... looming it helps too... It's really for a high AGI build though, zipping in and out of combat and getting people who are attempting to swing then escaping  :P
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Alskaer_Alvari on April 27, 2012, 03:18:52 am
Ah, sort of a specialists item. Well, I´ll keep it in my inventory and maybe try it again later...

On another note, reading through this thread and another one that was linked here helped me get a little better. Most important thing is to be aggressive as a shielder and I was pretty passive  :rolleyes:
Also, I noticed that if you wanna play good first person is just out of the question in this game. It´s a shame, though, I much prefer it.

 Oh, and I now use the plate covered round shield. It serves me good so far.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on April 27, 2012, 04:09:41 am
The round steel buckler is the inbred cousin of the buckler family. The steel buckler is much better, the one that looks deformed.
And against faster weapons, the plated shield can be a problem if its a little slow on blocking.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: rustyspoon on April 27, 2012, 04:51:35 am
Also, I noticed that if you wanna play good first person is just out of the question in this game. It´s a shame, though, I much prefer it.

Actually if you practice you can play pretty well in 1st person. BobTheHero does pretty well playing as a 1-hander no shield in 1st person.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Turboflex on April 27, 2012, 04:37:48 pm
Im sure you can do fine, for me though the best part of shielding is the ability to take on multiple opponents at once for extended periods, and the extra visual range that 3rd person provides is important for the tactical maneuvering of that.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: ZEE_BISHOP on April 27, 2012, 04:42:42 pm
Im sure you can do fine, for me though the best part of shielding is the ability to take on multiple opponents at once for extended periods, and the extra visual range that 3rd person provides is important for the tactical maneuvering of that.

I think I'd have to agree with this, I'm sure first person would be very handy for a pikeman however or a "Spartan"-esque build :)
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Benemortasia on April 27, 2012, 06:26:02 pm
This thread has been so enlightening and after reading it yesterday afternoon and applying it last night my game has definitely improved.

And I have a question: Does sword and shield generally out damage spear and shield? I'm looking at this from a group melee standpoint where you land an attack every 10 or 15 seconds.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: kinngrimm on April 27, 2012, 06:38:08 pm
...

And I have a question: Does sword and shield generally out damage spear and shield? I'm looking at this from a group melee standpoint where you land an attack every 10 or 15 seconds.
no it doesn't spectate KingGlype of clan Denbitre. Also Mercs have a crazy hoplite, he was eitehr with shortspear or war spear if i remember correctly, really good player and massiv k/d. He had often the ability to ride in his generations but also chose often not to and jsut go pure melee where he still rocked.(man what was your name sry too early for me need second coffee ... EDIT:Merc_Pully)
They are two totaly different playstyles where you can do different things with these.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Benemortasia on April 29, 2012, 05:26:28 am
...

They are two totaly different playstyles where you can do different things with these.
Thanks and yeah, I've been running a nord sword and the basic free spear (upkeep problems) with a shield, and in engagements with multiple people I manage to hit more enemies and less team mates with a spear as opposed to the sword. But a one on one with a spear and shield I get trounced.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: ZEE_BISHOP on April 29, 2012, 09:16:18 pm
I think most people do a little giggle to themselves when they come across a shield and spear person on his own because they're easy to chamber and block unless they put the shield away or are high AGI and do some mad spin stab wizardry. I'm sure some people can (and do) pull it off really well if that's your thing, but I don't think you need to waste WPF into it if you're keeping it as a 2ndry support weapon.

I sometimes take a cheap spear with me as a shielder (with 0 WPF in polearm) because it is handy to do support jabs behind the group without getting lolspammed by your 2H team mates and also handy for keeping the cav away. You're still capable of pole staggerning, rearing horses, and killing people with 0 WPF then like you say -- toss it away and take out your sword to fight when people are about to target you.  :P
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: kinngrimm on April 30, 2012, 01:10:19 am
I think most people do a little giggle to themselves when they come across a shield and spear person on his own because they're easy to chamber and block unless they put the shield away or are high AGI and do some mad spin stab wizardry. I'm sure some people can (and do) pull it off really well if that's your thing, but I don't think you need to waste WPF into it if you're keeping it as a 2ndry support weapon.
not sure here, i got only leftovers wpf polearm and the main thing i use it for is to stop horses which works often enough. Still if you wanna go hoplite and do real good with it i would advice to 100+ wpf, i have the feeling you would less glance that way, but more important would be str and ps for a hoplite and "not to walk alone". If you go pure hoplite as i said a shortspear for close combat melee or a warspear which is also good without the shield. Think about what you want to do with the spear then decide.


I sometimes take a cheap spear with me as a shielder (with 0 WPF in polearm) because it is handy to do support jabs behind the group without getting lolspammed by your 2H team mates and also handy for keeping the cav away. You're still capable of pole staggerning, rearing horses, and killing people with 0 WPF then like you say -- toss it away and take out your sword to fight when people are about to target you.  :P
Agreed, i do the same with bamboo sometimes if i know there are some special cav friends aiming for me  :mrgreen:.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: San on April 30, 2012, 07:30:55 am
My strategy is pretty much the same as kinngrimm's, but I am strength-oriented and he is more likely agi.

At 8 PS, hoplite rarely ever glances, unless you hit at the very tip, after most of the animation is over. It also hits like a truck and lets you sneak in kills more easily than 1h sometimes in a 2+ v 1.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Alskaer_Alvari on April 30, 2012, 05:05:07 pm
I decided to go pure shielder for now.

I´m 24 now, at 31 I could either be

21/18

IF 3 or 4
PS 7
Sh 6
Ath 6
WM 3 or 4

or 18/21

IF 3
PS 6
Sh 7
Ath 7
WM 3


I wonder what would be more noticable, the additional dmg and health from 21/18 or the additional speed and durability from 18/21?
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: kinngrimm on April 30, 2012, 06:03:17 pm
I decided to go pure shielder for now.

I´m 24 now, at 31 I could either be

...

I wonder what would be more noticable, the additional dmg and health from 21/18 or the additional speed and durability from 18/21?
plan for lvl 30 as with 31 you will retire and wouldnt play it that long, so half the time you are playing is in lvl 30. If you have your build ready there you have half the time the full power =)

If you are new to M&B / cRPG and your manual blocking skills sucks, i would go for more agi and shieldskill. You increase your durability and have a longer time ingame at least when you play battle not siege. perhaps even go for 15/24 or depending on what weapon you use 12/24 all at lvl 30. with 8 shield skill and 8 ath you can take a beating while also be prepared to hunt some archers ^^
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Turboflex on April 30, 2012, 06:22:18 pm
Well with 5 shield and something like a huscarl shield you will be fine.

Go with 18 or 21 AGI for now, but as your footwork improves you will need less speed, and will probably prefer to move your STR up instead to improve your damage. Only having 5-6 powerstrike with a 1h slash weapon can be pretty tough against people with even medium armour. You can make up for your lack of penetration with a blunt or pierce weapon, although they are all a bit more advanced to use since they have shorter range. Military hammer isn't so bad, but length is just 80 which is still kind of low compared to full sized swords.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Phew on April 30, 2012, 07:25:05 pm
21/15 7if/7ps/5ath/5sh/5wm with a longer swing-only weapon is the best starting point for 1h/shield IMHO. So either of the scimitars, Liuyedao, Niuweidao, Military Cleaver, or Military Hammer. 1h thrust can be very powerful, but if you aren't very experienced with it, the constant glancing and wonky hitbox will get you killed alot.

I think Heavy Round Shield is the best all-arounder, but it's a tad slow, so if you fall for a feint the shield isn't fast enough to recover and block. The 100 speed shields are more forgiving to mistakes, but offer less coverage/durability, which you need as a novice.

Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Alskaer_Alvari on April 30, 2012, 08:13:26 pm
Well this is my setup atm:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=1hgkwr.jpg)

Although I almost liked my steel pick & plate covered round shield setup better. What really annoys me about the huscarl shield is the size of that thing, even in 3rd person it blocks visibility.

And I doubt I´ll retire right away at lvl 31, I´ve had enough of that damn lvling up by now and the thought of starting as a peasant again.... bah. Anyway, I´ll go 18/18 first and see what happens then...
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Spawny on April 30, 2012, 08:32:03 pm
Well this is my setup atm:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=1hgkwr.jpg)

Although I almost liked my steel pick & plate covered round shield setup better. What really annoys me about the huscarl shield is the size of that thing, even in 3rd person it blocks visibility.

And I doubt I´ll retire right away at lvl 31, I´ve had enough of that damn lvling up by now and the thought of starting as a peasant again.... bah. Anyway, I´ll go 18/18 first and see what happens then...

Tbh, the warhammer is a bit of a specialists weapon. I'm using short weapons myself (picks, axes, hammers) with an 18/18 build and when I level I'm going for 21 agility and 7 athletics.
2 simple reasons:
- Short weapons mean I have to close more distance to get a hit in on someone, so I need to be fast on my feet
- Short weapons are short because they hit for a lot of damage. Especially when MW, the steel pick, warhammer and broad one handed battle axe all hurt like hell with 18 strength and 6 PS.

I need speed more than damage, because nothing is more frustrating than missing someone by an inch because you were too slow.

PS
I personally use the broad one handed battle axe most, as it's relatively high cutting power compensates for it being cut damage instead of pierce/blunt and it eats shields pretty fast. The warhammer is a close second, as it knocks people down pretty often and has 4 attack directions. Steel pick hurts like hell when you hit someone, is a bit harder to block for most people, but it's also the shortest and doesn't have an additional benefit.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Turboflex on April 30, 2012, 08:37:43 pm
Once you get familiar with short weapons, the disadvantage of their range wears off though. I have been using broad 1h battle axe for like 10 gens and know its range down to the pixel. I can actually effectively outrange people with longer weapons, cuz I know the range and timing so well I am a lot more efficient with my swings. It's very nice having a 1h that hits like 2h with 38cut damage.

I only have 5 ath too, but it's not a big deal, worst case I need to hold it up for a 2nd block while I get close. I also carry 2 stacks of heavy throwing axes incase some smart guy tries to kite me :), after I pop him once, he turns around to close on me instead. I'm actually thing of going 24/12 next gen.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Phazey on May 01, 2012, 04:42:57 pm
If you're planning on using the shorter weapons (range 70ish instead of the 100 range swords), go agi. You'll need the extra athletics (acceleration / movement speed) to compensate for your lack of range. So i would recommend the 18/21 shielder build.

Also: how about bringing 2 one handed weapons?

Bring a nice, long sword with 100-ish range and that warhammer, pick or mace you prefer. That way, you have options.

You could fight the low and medium armoured guys with your sword and switch to the shorter warhammer to beat down those tin cans. Also, with the 7 athletics and the 100 range sword, you can (jump-)slash at those cavalry without being skewered... if you get the footwork right.

Also: knock down is fun, eh?  :wink:

edit: typo's
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Alskaer_Alvari on May 01, 2012, 05:24:40 pm
But doesn´t carrying a second weapon considerably slow me down?
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: RiPLeY_II on May 01, 2012, 05:39:40 pm
But doesn´t carrying a second weapon considerably slow me down?
No. I usually go with a nordic champion's sword and an axe and you can¡t notice the difference from going with just 1 weapon. A shield in your back is what slows you down a lot.

Anyway, I'd suggest that if you go with two 1h-weapons, is because one of them is a special-counter (like an axe vs. shielder). Going with a sword and a warhammer, both have the same use about enemies (you'll end up not changing to the sword for light armored enemies).
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: callahan9119 on May 01, 2012, 09:54:07 pm
My strategy is pretty much the same as kinngrimm's, but I am strength-oriented and he is more likely agi.

At 8 PS, hoplite rarely ever glances, unless you hit at the very tip, after most of the animation is over. It also hits like a truck and lets you sneak in kills more easily than 1h sometimes in a 2+ v 1.

San, I usually watch you when you're on and I'm dead. Epic last stand last night btw... But anyways, I never see you use your spear, You have it out a lot, but you seem to always switch to the pick when you fight. When do you use the thing?
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: Vodner on May 02, 2012, 12:22:32 am
San, I usually watch you when you're on and I'm dead. Epic last stand last night btw... But anyways, I never see you use your spear, You have it out a lot, but you seem to always switch to the pick when you fight. When do you use the thing?
The spear is for discouraging / rearing cav. With the range bonus from using a shield, the warspear is somewhat decent for the role, in addition to being sheathable.
Title: Re: Tips for 1 handed/shield fighting?
Post by: San on May 02, 2012, 12:34:47 am
As Saul explained, cav will rarely even target you with your shield+spear out.

If you have your 1h out most of the time, when you need your spear the most, it may take too long to switch and then rear the cav. If a cav has a faster lance, hoplite is slow enough to lose a dual exchange if both players release at the same time.

Therefore, it's easier to have the spear out most of the time and simply switch when getting close to infantry.


Also thanks for the compliment. In this game, knowledge is everything (not much really lends itself to reaction time or twitch mechanics), so once you understand more of the game mechanics as time passes,  you will surprise yourself at times at the amount of things you will be able to perform.