cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Gricks on March 18, 2012, 12:07:08 am

Title: Mauls
Post by: Gricks on March 18, 2012, 12:07:08 am
Why are they even in the game? I don't know who thought an instagib unblockable weapon was a good idea. They dominate siege and make group fighting no fun.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Ohayashi on March 18, 2012, 12:27:34 am
They're slow as sin and you can chamber overheads if you're desperate.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: zagibu on March 18, 2012, 12:29:38 am
If no mauls were in this game, everyone would run around as a shielder dude. Well, maybe not everyone, but mauls are needed to keep their numbers in check.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: BlackMilk on March 18, 2012, 12:31:57 am
not really. crushthrough is almost as silly as polestagger is
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: karasu on March 18, 2012, 12:34:24 am
My signature.

I see crushthrough applying in that trinity, but I don't see polestagger.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Gricks on March 18, 2012, 12:35:40 am
Maul counters almost everything though. How is it anything like your signature?
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Gurnisson on March 18, 2012, 12:46:13 am
Fine for battle and most of the siege maps. Completely retarded in some siege maps though but that should be fixed by editing those maps. Because of their slowness, mauls are okay
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on March 18, 2012, 01:11:29 am
Talking of silly, stupid shit. Poke with a polearm once blocked leaves you defenceless... Stab with italian sword recover straight away, stab with a 2h recover straight away... :/ stupid.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: B3RS3RK on March 18, 2012, 01:21:02 am
not really. crushthrough is almost as silly as polestagger is

I can see why people want to remove Polestagger, it´s an unfair advantage, but remove crushthrough from Mauls and what do you have left?Shit!.

Also you need a strength-orientated build to reliably crushthrough with everything but the great maul.

And the Great maul is short, slow as shit and 3 Slots(Meaning you can only have crap weapons as backup).There is no melee weapon except for the long maul ingame that is slower than the Great maul.

The Mauls are pure Support weapons.They rule in Groupfights, but in one on one they are easy to beat if not used by a very skilled person.

A person playing with the GMaul who mastered it´s style can obviously seem OP, but that´s the same for every weapon.


Crushthrough-Weapons surely can be annoying as hell, especially if you are a biased shielder in that matter, but they add to the diversity of the game.Without crushthrough you could let another bit of Battle-awareness slip(The Part where you check the enemy for Mauls), making the game more repetetive and boring.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Gricks on March 18, 2012, 01:31:37 am
Nothing should have crush through. It is a cheap spec and every kill with it is cheesy. Yes, they would be useless without crushthrough- which is why I advocate removing them altogether.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Gurnisson on March 18, 2012, 01:31:40 am
There is no melee weapon except for the long maul ingame that is slower than the Great maul.

Heavy Lance and Pike
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Ohayashi on March 18, 2012, 01:36:24 am
Nothing should have crush through. It is a cheap spec and every kill with it is cheesy. Yes, they would be useless without crushthrough- which is why I advocate removing them altogether.

"7 Kilogram maul bearing down on my head? Hold on as I block it with a stick."
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: RibaldRon on March 18, 2012, 01:41:57 am
Crushthrough is probably one of my least favorite mechanics in the game.  You can crushthrough chambers too, by the way.

Maul users aren't necessarily any weaker than other pole/2H users, as they are vulnerable to archers and cav, maybe 1/2H users aren't if they pack a shield, but still..


IMO there needs to be a way to more reliably prevent crushthrough, since there exists a mechanic to increase it.  Players who are built for it are quite simply insane.  I'd also say that maul is good against single enemies rather than a team, as the common tactic is chamber a swing, block, then go to town until the target is dead.  There's really nothing you can do against that.  :cry:
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Malaclypse on March 18, 2012, 01:52:56 am
Jumping up while blocking a great maul overhead seems to negate most of the damage from the attack when it crushes through. Catching it earlier in the arc or something, I don't know.

Just don't thrust against them, generally. That is basically asking for an overhead attack.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Renten on March 18, 2012, 01:53:49 am
I find it funny that the long maul is terrible against anyone with a heavy shield or heavy weapon (great maul), yet the great maul rapes those same things. The long maul weighs 1 less kg than the great maul, and has a longer handle for a harder hit.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 18, 2012, 02:03:41 am
What? People are starting to complain about mauls now too? Geez, what is happening to this community?

Mauls can definitely be dangerous if teammates are helping, alone tho you cant do much and will have a hard time running away with the high weight and usually strength build. All i do against a mauler is side swing untill he dies, they usually cant attack back with their slow speed. Because of their heavy weapon you can easily outrun them if you have a balanced build so you dont have to fight them. On siege tho they can become a big problem but with a good defence you can kill them before they can hit anyone.

Maul counters almost everything though. How is it anything like your signature?

I dont see mauls countering archers/xbowmen/cav/pikes.. Maaaybe 2h/pole without shield but that depends alot on who is using it and who he is fighting so id say not. It is a good counter to melee if, like i said, is used with the help of teammates.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Aleta on March 18, 2012, 02:21:28 am
If would be more realistic if more weapons had the crushthrough ability to be honest. However, it could be less chance for it happening than it is now. Also, hits that crush through a block should deal a lot less damage than an unblocked hit, and should not be able to knock people down. What I think most people hate about the crushthough is that it deals the same damage whether you block an overhead swing or not, and you most likely get knocked to the ground making you most likely die on the hit the enemy gets on you while knocked down.

I'm not really sure if it is possible, but perhaps "nerf" the crushthough ability a bit by making it deal a lot less damage through a block than when unblocked. Also possibly giving more weapons back their crushthough ability, but with a lot smaller chance for it happening based on the weapons weight and the users strength.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Leshma on March 18, 2012, 04:07:17 am
They're slow as sin and you can chamber overheads if you're desperate.

You can try to chamber overhead but guess what will happen?
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: rustyspoon on March 18, 2012, 04:43:25 am
Mauls are fine. They are fantastic support weapons, but pretty terrible 1v1.

If they sideswing, block. If they overhead, spam. Or, since chances are you can move faster than them, run to your teammates. If you know what you're doing, the only time you'll die to a maul user is if you get unlucky or you're outnumbered.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Gricks on March 18, 2012, 08:59:45 am
What? People are starting to complain about mauls now too? Geez, what is happening to this community?

Mauls can definitely be dangerous if teammates are helping, alone tho you cant do much and will have a hard time running away with the high weight and usually strength build. All i do against a mauler is side swing untill he dies, they usually cant attack back with their slow speed. Because of their heavy weapon you can easily outrun them if you have a balanced build so you dont have to fight them. On siege tho they can become a big problem but with a good defence you can kill them before they can hit anyone.

I dont see mauls countering archers/xbowmen/cav/pikes.. Maaaybe 2h/pole without shield but that depends alot on who is using it and who he is fighting so id say not. It is a good counter to melee if, like i said, is used with the help of teammates.

Mauls counter pikes in a 1v1. After the piker jumps, he is forced to block. And we all know what happens then. It isn't that mauls are imbalanced per say. It just a cheap and no skill build. A terrible player with a maul is still very effective.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Camaris on March 18, 2012, 10:23:13 am
Mauls are not really OP.
They are very annoying and sometimes have no counter. Thats the problem. In some occasions they are 100% win.

If CT could be chambered 100% everything would be totally fine.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Kalp on March 18, 2012, 10:25:28 am
Learn2playStopComplain
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Dezilagel on March 18, 2012, 10:41:36 am
Problem with the g-maul is that it turns a shitty player that you don't really have to worry about into a juggernaut of destruction.

It's simply too good and too easy to completely rape with imho.

Now, I'd really like to see CT mechanics changed:

Make the mauls much better all around weapons, but limit CT to shields. Then you'd still have a support function (forcing people to put their shields on their backs), while stopping them from being the ridiculous bullshit that they are now.

Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Shaith on March 18, 2012, 10:53:37 am
Problem with the g-maul is that it turns a shitty player that you don't really have to worry about into a juggernaut of destruction.

It's simply too good and too easy to completely rape with imho.

Now, I'd really like to see CT mechanics changed:

Make the mauls much better all around weapons, but limit CT to shields. Then you'd still have a support function (forcing people to put their shields on their backs), while stopping them from being the ridiculous bullshit that they are now.

Good Idea!
However i fear neither the shielders or MaulNubs will like it :/
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on March 18, 2012, 11:04:38 am
Im a shielder now, when i see a lone mauler i just think - easy kill. However when they are in a group or hide behind a wall.... splat. But generaly when you fight with a group of anything you tend to die, that leaves maulers hiding around corners, which leaves you a choice of not going inside the maulers cave, which practicaly leaves only one situation when maulers are dangerous - when they hide behind corners and suprise you. So i dont see the problem. Unless a lone mauler is a realy good player, but then id die to him regardless of the weapon

Conlcusion - its the person/situation/your own fail that kills you in this game, mauls are fine
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Christo on March 18, 2012, 11:15:21 am
Now, I'd really like to see CT mechanics changed:

Make the mauls much better all around weapons, but limit CT to shields. Then you'd still have a support function (forcing people to put their shields on their backs), while stopping them from being the ridiculous bullshit that they are now.

Now now, that's a very nice idea there.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: zagibu on March 18, 2012, 11:28:49 am
not really. crushthrough is almost as silly as polestagger is

Interesting. Didn't you convert to 1h + shield lately?
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: BlackMilk on March 18, 2012, 11:37:33 am
Interesting. Didn't you convert to 1h + shield lately?
Nope, still a 2hander.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Vexus on March 18, 2012, 12:22:03 pm
I really don't understand you whiners.

You whine about great maul being too accessible wanting either unsheatable or 3 slots, patch comes poof great maul 3 slots now they can't use some danish sword but have to stick with 0 or 1 slot weapons.

Now you want another nerf? It's very slow and if you don't understand speed, speed affects the blocking animation speed too! Use your fast weapons and feint, spam or kick attack them don't cry because they own you when they are in a group or get you by surprise.

A message from a someone who doesn't use a maul.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: BlameMeForTheNoise on March 18, 2012, 12:59:21 pm
I really enjoy fighting against Mauls.
I have to say in the 5 minutes Gnjus concentrates actually on blocking it really can get a challenge, but most of the other dudes pick mauls and heavy armor are just easy prey.
They are slow as fuck and all dudes I encountered with mauls so far wear very heavy armor. Just backpedal and sideswing. You are much faster in running speed AND in swinging AND have a greater range.
Use it. And as I myself learned: Do not thrust-attack. Even I with my Danish and 21 agility get stunned for too long. Not only the polearms.

When you find yourself closed in anyhow circle around them.

If you abide these rules they are no problem whatsoever.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: MrShine on March 18, 2012, 01:39:41 pm
As others mentioned crushthrough weapons are not that frightening solo, but I need to completely change my fighting style whenever I fight a mauler so it's a nice change of pace.  But if I'm outnumbered by enemies, and one of them has a maul, I'm in trouble.

A great support weapon but not very good 1v1.  Kinda like pikes/long spears.  I think they're fine as they are.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: martyrAD on March 18, 2012, 01:46:23 pm
As others mentioned crushthrough weapons are not that frightening solo, but I need to completely change my fighting style whenever I fight a mauler so it's a nice change of pace.  But if I'm outnumbered by enemies, and one of them has a maul, I'm in trouble.

A great support weapon but not very good 1v1.  Kinda like pikes/long spears.  I think they're fine as they are.

agree'd a solo mauler doesnt scare me, its when he has 2-3 friends with him i get scared...
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Phew on March 19, 2012, 02:49:01 am
1. Make a STF mauler, 39/3 or whatever
2. Buy a Great Maul, naked is fine armor-wise
3. Stand on top of a ladder in siege, just off to the side so ranged can't get you
4. Close your eyes and mash overheads for the entire round
5. When round ends, open eyes to see your 10+kills

On any siege maps where ladders are primary, 4 maulers can ENSURE victory for the defenders, with no counter. I'm sure they are fine on battle, but I've seen half the siege server GTX just because a few maulers coordinated on defense.

I don't know the solution, but it needs to be fixed. Maybe some kind of endurance bar so they can't just repeatedly overhead for the entire round?


Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Diomedes on March 19, 2012, 03:21:28 am
I've never encountered an OP mauler.  Every class has its strengths and weaknesses.  Maulers are generally weaker against ranged enemy, cavalry, fighting more than one enemy, backpedalers , and 95+ speed weapons with more than one attack direction.  It's a big list, and nobody's fault if your class isn't on it. 

If you're having trouble try taking a faster weapon and pay more attention to your footwork.  The real trick is getting over the visceral impulse to block the giant stone aimed at your head.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: zagibu on March 19, 2012, 08:57:34 am
1. Make a STF mauler, 39/3 or whatever
2. Buy a Great Maul, naked is fine armor-wise
3. Stand on top of a ladder in siege, just off to the side so ranged can't get you
4. Close your eyes and mash overheads for the entire round
5. When round ends, open eyes to see your 10+kills

On any siege maps where ladders are primary, 4 maulers can ENSURE victory for the defenders, with no counter. I'm sure they are fine on battle, but I've seen half the siege server GTX just because a few maulers coordinated on defense.

I don't know the solution, but it needs to be fixed. Maybe some kind of endurance bar so they can't just repeatedly overhead for the entire round?

4 mauler's can't ensure victory. If the other team has some maulers themselves, it's easy to break through.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Gnjus on March 19, 2012, 09:07:31 am
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Vibe on March 19, 2012, 09:09:08 am
Imo, the scariest maulers are not the STR ones, but the 21/18 ones.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: B3RS3RK on March 19, 2012, 09:16:58 am
Imo, the scariest maulers are not the STR ones, but the 21/18 ones.

this.

39/3 maulers are so slow, my char can easily make a 3 course diner while he swings and still jump out of reach before he hits.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Gnjus on March 19, 2012, 09:17:29 am
Imo, the scariest maulers are not the STR ones, but the 21/18 ones.

Exactly, because they are a lot faster (harder to dance around them and outspam them) and they knockdown/crush-through pretty much the same since that's such a random mechanics. The only + in going full strength is that you can afford yourself a bit more errors with manual blocking (won't die in 1 or 2 hits) but in every other area full STR Mauler sucks - 1 on 1 he's pretty much useless, he can't avoid projectiles, can't escape couches, etc. It's a support unit heavily dependant on his team, the map, the balance, etc, even the armor he's wearing because you need heavy armor since you're gonna get hit a lot due to your slowness and headshots hurt no matter your HP. And in heavy armor you're even more slow.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on March 19, 2012, 09:27:36 am
If using a short weapon, spam.
If using a long weapon, range.

With my katana, I can spam them whenever they do an overhead and hit first, I only need to block sideswings. Seems fair to me. Both are forced to block. My katana gets stunned most of the time i block aswell.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Vibe on March 19, 2012, 09:38:35 am
If using a short weapon, spam.
If using a long weapon, range.

With my katana, I can spam them whenever they do an overhead and hit first, I only need to block sideswings. Seems fair to me. Both are forced to block. My katana gets stunned most of the time i block aswell.

Problem with spam however is usually your low damage versus his high armor and a slight positioning mistake might make you glance, not interrupting his overhead and getting your head smashed to paté.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Phyrex on March 19, 2012, 10:31:18 am
If I don't have any problem with them, why do you?

Phyrex' Very Short Guide to Maul Defence

Never thrust or overhead.

Spam left and right slashes while watching for Maul side slashes. Should you somehow fail your spam or perhaps do a thrust by mistake, kick-slash him.

As a solo-mauler, aggression and constant W-key spam is a must. Heavy armour and the slow, short weapon requires constant 'up in your face' combat tactics. An easy prey for back-peddling, spam and kick-slashing.

An experienced mauler will try a side slash and see if you block or not. If you do block it, you should, he might try doing it again, but this time do a holded side slash. This will stun your weapon and he'll try an overhead straight away, keep the kick-key ready or simply backpeddle away.

The mauler isn't that awesome at taking out turtles, it's far better at taking out support players. Flamberge, Pikes and all the 2-attack direction polearms, slow polearms, defensive/str-whore players and newbie/clueless players.(Who got none but themselves to blame.)

And of course, throughout this thread, the people who complain wield  the weapons/fit into the categories mentioned above. Amusing. Would be like me complaining at archers shooting me in an open field. Guess what? They're my counter-class, the maul might just be yours.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Gurnisson on March 19, 2012, 11:59:57 am
If you're a 1h the mauler will probably try to go to your left when he does an overhead to try and avoid the fast leftslash. Other dangerous tricks the mauler has is preparing a side swing, wait for you to block that direction ans then change to the overhead. Takes a lot of guys by surprise, that trick
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Gricks on March 19, 2012, 12:07:03 pm
A mauler crutches and generally takes a butt load of hits. You miss or glance once and you are dead. You use an overhead-dead, thrust-dead. Fighting multiple people? Dead. There is just so many ways to die without you being able to do anything about it. All because of crush through.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: martyrAD on March 19, 2012, 12:15:33 pm
A mauler crutches and generally takes a butt load of hits. You miss or glance once and you are dead. You use an overhead-dead, thrust-dead. Fighting multiple people? Dead. There is just so many ways to die without you being able to do anything about it. All because of crush through.

Teamwork, you're doing it wrong..
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: karasu on March 19, 2012, 12:17:09 pm
I find it funny that the long maul is terrible against anyone with a heavy shield or heavy weapon (great maul), yet the great maul rapes those same things. The long maul weighs 1 less kg than the great maul, and has a longer handle for a harder hit.

  With the long maul you can actually maul through shield walled team mates, from safe distance p.e.

  The same reach allows you to backpedal in safe range while crushingthrough the enemies.

  This is an heavy advantage, which was obviously taken into account by the item balance team.

  I've given already some tips of how to fight against a mauler (at least a decent one).


  If you wanna make comparisons with polestagger, do this mind exercise:
     a) realize that maulers are with luck 3 or 4 at the same time;
     b) also realize that polearm users make most of the time almost 40% of a server (including cav users, also staggers);
     c) obvious conclusion.

  It's simple facts and mathematics. A polearm user hits you once, if it staggers, good luck. Either he'll stunlock you to death, or the rest 40% will, or even the other 60% will take advantage of the stun (most likely).

  A mauler hits you with overhead? You have at least 50% chance roughly of being able to counter first by using the brains and smart footwork + faster swing.

  A mauler by itself is completely useless in most scenarios; a mauler that knows HOW to act, WHERE to act, and how to apply TEAMPLAY and TACTICS, might be your worst nightmare.
When that happens, this happens (nords teamplaying with decent tactics): http://i.imgur.com/OCXbB.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/OCXbB.jpg)

  Also the most formidable mauler isn't the one with tincan suits and pure str builds. Run from those with actuall WPF and medium/low gear. Run... really run!
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: karasu on March 19, 2012, 12:18:24 pm
If I don't have any problem with them, why do you?

Phyrex' Very Short Guide to Maul Defence

Never thrust or overhead.

Spam left and right slashes while watching for Maul side slashes. Should you somehow fail your spam or perhaps do a thrust by mistake, kick-slash him.

As a solo-mauler, aggression and constant W-key spam is a must. Heavy armour and the slow, short weapon requires constant 'up in your face' combat tactics. An easy prey for back-peddling, spam and kick-slashing.

An experienced mauler will try a side slash and see if you block or not. If you do block it, you should, he might try doing it again, but this time do a holded side slash. This will stun your weapon and he'll try an overhead straight away, keep the kick-key ready or simply backpeddle away.

The mauler isn't that awesome at taking out turtles, it's far better at taking out support players. Flamberge, Pikes and all the 2-attack direction polearms, slow polearms, defensive/str-whore players and newbie/clueless players.(Who got none but themselves to blame.)

And of course, throughout this thread, the people who complain wield  the weapons/fit into the categories mentioned above. Amusing. Would be like me complaining at archers shooting me in an open field. Guess what? They're my counter-class, the maul might just be yours.

That's basically what I've said all the time, but I guess people take more attention if there is a "Phyrex" tag attached to it. Placebo effect, etc.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Ronin on March 19, 2012, 12:25:11 pm
A mauler crutches and generally takes a butt load of hits. You miss or glance once and you are dead. You use an overhead-dead, thrust-dead. Fighting multiple people? Dead. There is just so many ways to die without you being able to do anything about it. All because of crush through.
As a mauler and two hander myself, this is very true. But there are underestimating your own power against those maulers as well.

-A maul is a very short weapon, can be outranged even with long one handed swords.
-A maul is a very slow weapon plus unbalanced, which forces the mauler to plan carefully of his attacks.
-A maul is a very slow and short weapon plus unbalanced, meaning the mauler will have no chance to spam you. Meaning you can use super-feints without fear of getting a sudden blow.

However, maul is still a bit stronger in my opinion.
-In multi combat, if one of your foes use a maul you are more likely to be dead compared when there's not. But again multi combat is where you shouldn't be the winner after all. Still can be counted as a factor.
-Most of the maulers wear heavy armor, and tend to stick with high STR builds which make them super tough to beat. Try to not let your swings to glance. He's a STR build with a heavy armor after all. Thank god he won't be moving very fast.
-A maul is a very high damage blunt weapon with a knockdown effect. Meaning even if you wear heavy armor, it won't protect you much. Plus if a knockdown occurs, the second blow is enough to finish you off. Even if you still live after the second, in a 1v1 fight a good player would kick you where you rise and struck a third blow to your head. After that, you are truly dead. There is noting you can do to avoid this factor. It is just that maul is a powerful weapon.
-In a siege if the defender team has 3-4 maulers, don't even hope to take the walls. There is not much you can do either, unless some ranged tactics. But oh, there is truly nothing you can do if the defender team has ranged troops as well.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Gnjus on March 19, 2012, 12:49:01 pm
When that happens, this happens (nords teamplaying with decent tactics): http://i.imgur.com/OCXbB.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/OCXbB.jpg)

Your screenshot is a lie and thus your whole post should be ignored. Nords do not win rounds with their "teamplay", they mostly hide in the corner and protect Weren while he practices his aiming (he couldn't hit an elephant from 15 yards but he's having his fun i recon).  :twisted:
Usual scores when Nords are online are 5-0 or 5-1 (due to first unbalanced round that separates them ) prepatch and 4-0 & 4-1 after patch (P.S. 0's & 1's being team with Nords in it).  :wink:
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Phew on March 19, 2012, 01:06:20 pm
If using a short weapon, spam.
If using a long weapon, range.

With my katana, I can spam them whenever they do an overhead and hit first, I only need to block sideswings. Seems fair to me. Both are forced to block. My katana gets stunned most of the time i block aswell.

Totally inapplicable for the Siege situation I described (maulers on top and to the side of ladders). The ladder/castle geometry nullifies your reach and speed by funneling you under their maul.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: rustyspoon on March 19, 2012, 01:28:49 pm
Totally inapplicable for the Siege situation I described (maulers on top and to the side of ladders). The ladder/castle geometry nullifies your reach and speed by funneling you under their maul.

Get a few heavy shielders to push through while everyone follows behind them. Problem solved. With the attackers faster spawn times if you keep pushing you'll make it through.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Vexus on March 19, 2012, 01:32:06 pm
There are so many ways to go through maul guys on siege walls.

Even if the first guy dies there will be 4+ more behind him that will rush attack for the opportunity, if your so afraid of dying in mode where you'll respawn in a few seconds, your opinion doesn't count towards balance.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: karasu on March 19, 2012, 01:35:23 pm
Don't forget the overwhelming amount of team hits a mauler gets on his back, which usually means their doom.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Leshma on March 19, 2012, 01:54:05 pm
When you find yourself closed in anyhow circle around them.

They'll just navigate their overhead into your face.

I don't like mauls although there are ways to deal with them (like backpedaling which is lame). I simply don't like the fact that there is a weapon which can't be blocked, for me biggest advantage of this game compared to other medieval or fantasy games is directional blocking.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: B3RS3RK on March 19, 2012, 02:06:53 pm
Yeah, but that alone turns boring after some time.The interesting thing about Crushthrough is that you completely have to change your tactic fighting them.Without it it´s just block block block slash slash slash, so boring my mind starts sleeping, but when Crushthrough comes into the equation you have to think more.

This is the Reason why I also would like to keep the polestagger in the game.But unlike crushthrough, I can clearly see why people want Polestagger removed: it´s an unfair advantage, which crushthrough is not since it is limited to very few and special weapons.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 19, 2012, 03:11:37 pm
Maul counters almost everything though. How is it anything like your signature?

No, they don't.  They're really only useful in group situations.  I can spam a maul with my 89 speed long bardiche, so you're argument is invalid.  Get out of overhead range, or hit them before they hit you. They're slow as balls. 
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Diomedes on March 19, 2012, 03:24:34 pm
A mauler crutches and generally takes a butt load of hits. You miss or glance once and you are dead. You use an overhead-dead, thrust-dead. Fighting multiple people? Dead. There is just so many ways to die without you being able to do anything about it. All because of crush through.

Is your problem seriously that an enemy with basically one attack direction, incredibly short reach, short attack speed, slow movement speed, and entirely predictable tactics may have a way to kill you in rare circumstances?  I think the entire thread echoes this sentiment: the problem is how you're fighting maulers, not the mauls themselves.  If I can one-shot 27 STR maulers with a 1-handed sword then you can do the same.

Only post here if you've something constructive to say.  It's not worthwhile to try and pull other players down because you can't pick your battles.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Phew on March 19, 2012, 09:23:40 pm
Get a few heavy shielders to push through while everyone follows behind them. Problem solved. With the attackers faster spawn times if you keep pushing you'll make it through.

Only shield I've seen that blocks Great Mauls with any consistency is Steel Shield; good luck finding even one steel shielder on your team, nonetheless "a few". My +2 Brown Lion has blocked a great maul ONCE. Ever. Even when I had +5 shield skill from shield wall, a great mauler ran right up and crushed through (because I believe crushthrough % is only a function of shield weight, not skill).

I challenge everyone to make a STF mauler, play siege and stand at the top of a ladder on defense (just to the side to avoid archers) and overhead swing repeatedly. Even naked, you will most likely be near the top in kills, even if you've never played warband before. Then tell me it's not a problem. Yes, maulers have some weaknesses in the open field, but they are just too strong on siege defense.



Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: B3RS3RK on March 19, 2012, 09:37:20 pm
Well, the obvious solution would be to play battle if you cant handle maulers...
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Phew on March 19, 2012, 10:17:36 pm
Well, the obvious solution would be to play battle if you cant handle maulers...

Berserk, stop trolling. People that like actually like PLAYING the game (and not alt-tabbing doing something else while waiting for the round to end after they die) play Siege.

Lancers were nerfed because they were over-the-top on Battle, it's not unreasonable to ask that mauls be nerfed because they are over-the-top on siege.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: IR_Kuoin on March 19, 2012, 10:22:30 pm
I fucking hate maulers, can't block overheads if the guy got 7 ps, wich almost every mauler has.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: B3RS3RK on March 19, 2012, 10:31:24 pm
My bad.

I dont really see a solution for your problem other than abolishing mauls from siege(Although I personally have never experienced such serious problems with maulers on siege), which, hands down, would be a bit drastic.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Laufknoten on March 19, 2012, 10:34:35 pm
I think most of the people don't have problems with maulers, just as most people don't have problems with archers. Still they whine or complain. I get rarely killed by maulers, because they're quite rare. Still I don't like them, because they require nothing more than 20 str, no wpf, no skill, just the 20 str you need to be able to equip the weapon. The long maul is okay, it's freaking slow and you have to use timing and footwork to be good with it. But the great maul is a weapon even a mentally retarded chimp would be good with. God damnit, they are called lolhammers for a reason...
The other mauls are okay though.   
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: MrShine on March 19, 2012, 10:35:08 pm
Yes, maulers have some weaknesses in the open field, but they are just too strong on siege defense.

I know right, I mean how dare an item be very strong in a very specific niche instance!

Same with damn pikes, in the open field against a single horseman pikes are like mega OP at rearing horses!

Against stationary targets archers can like be mega OP at hitting them from ranged, while the stationary target can't attack back!
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: IR_Kuoin on March 19, 2012, 10:46:44 pm
On siege:

On every ladder etc. there are 1 - 3 maulers ganking around
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Phew on March 19, 2012, 11:15:26 pm
I know right, I mean how dare an item be very strong in a very specific niche instance!

Same with damn pikes, in the open field against a single horseman pikes are like mega OP at rearing horses!

Against stationary targets archers can like be mega OP at hitting them from ranged, while the stationary target can't attack back!

Cav can avoid pikers and be successful, attackers can't avoid ladders and doorways in siege without leeching. Defending a castle from siege isn't a "niche instance"; half the server is doing it at any given time.

Come to NA siege when Occitan is playing defense and tell me there isn't a problem with mauls. Their 5-6 maulers could easily repel 5x that number of attackers, by standing stationary and performing a single attack repeatedly. Other clans and random folks are starting to pick up on this insta-win tactic. Extrapolate out the current situation (every pole and 2h player spawning with a maul on siege defense), and everyone will just quit playing siege.

My best suggestion for a fix is to implement a stamina bar that depletes as a function of weapon weight. Would be hard for the devs to implement though.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 19, 2012, 11:50:12 pm
Yeah I suggested stamina a while back for all weapons (when people were brainstorming ways to buff agility).  That seems to be lacking in this game for all attacks.  But it wouldn't necessarily be based on agility alone because obviously the stronger you are, the longer you can swing heavy objects around.  It would need some heaving tweaking to be viable.

That being said, it would also be nice if stamina was added to horses based on their "breed" and how much weight they are carrying (rider's equipment weight + horses armor if it has any). 

The thing is though, even if both of these could be implemented, it would completely change how people are used to playing warband.  This is more one of those things I wish taleworlds implemented from the start, or in a patch.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Phew on March 20, 2012, 12:50:51 am
Yeah I suggested stamina a while back for all weapons (when people were brainstorming ways to buff agility).  That seems to be lacking in this game for all attacks.  But it wouldn't necessarily be based on agility alone because obviously the stronger you are, the longer you can swing heavy objects around.  It would need some heaving tweaking to be viable.

That being said, it would also be nice if stamina was added to horses based on their "breed" and how much weight they are carrying (rider's equipment weight + horses armor if it has any). 

The thing is though, even if both of these could be implemented, it would completely change how people are used to playing warband.  This is more one of those things I wish taleworlds implemented from the start, or in a patch.

It wouldn't have to be based on a particular stat, everyone could have the same stamina reserve and regen rate. Or strength could increase the size of the pool, agility regen rate. Swings and holds would consume stamina based on the weapon weight. Wouldn't change much other than force people to be more selective with their swings. An extra bonus is that it would reduce teamwounds.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: SirProto on March 20, 2012, 02:33:28 am
I blocked a maul today with a pike. WITH A PIKE. I felt like a wizard.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Diomedes on March 20, 2012, 03:51:35 am
Is it impossible to chamber mauls?  Just wondering.  It's an unreasonable standard to expect every player to chamber, but it seems to me that if a ladder is guarded by a mauler then somebody should just chamber the mauler.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: MrShine on March 20, 2012, 03:59:52 am
Cav can avoid pikers and be successful, attackers can't avoid ladders and doorways in siege without leeching. Defending a castle from siege isn't a "niche instance"; half the server is doing it at any given time.

Come to NA siege when Occitan is playing defense and tell me there isn't a problem with mauls. Their 5-6 maulers could easily repel 5x that number of attackers, by standing stationary and performing a single attack repeatedly. Other clans and random folks are starting to pick up on this insta-win tactic. Extrapolate out the current situation (every pole and 2h player spawning with a maul on siege defense), and everyone will just quit playing siege.

My best suggestion for a fix is to implement a stamina bar that depletes as a function of weapon weight. Would be hard for the devs to implement though.

Pick up a crossbow.
Pick up..ANY longer ranged weapon.
Don't charge forward up the ladder like a lemming.

Congratulations, you've just countered the maul defense.

Scenario 2: they are around a corner up the ladder with overheads ready.  Upblock and run through like a champ, they can't get all of you due to the slow speed of the overhead and likely 2 hits required to kill.

Is it impossible to chamber mauls?  Just wondering.  It's an unreasonable standard to expect every player to chamber, but it seems to me that if a ladder is guarded by a mauler then somebody should just chamber the mauler.
You can chamber a maul just like any other weapon, but they can still crushthrough your chamber, so you'll end up taking the hit first anyways rendering the attempt moot.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Vibe on March 20, 2012, 08:19:50 am
I blocked a maul today with a pike. WITH A PIKE. I felt like a wizard.  :mrgreen:

Yep happened to me when I tried to maul a piker. I guess the 3 weight on pike really helps if the mauler has 7 PS.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: zagibu on March 20, 2012, 08:44:57 am
If maulers are so OP in siege defense, why do attackers still mostly win?
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Old_Sir_Agor on March 20, 2012, 08:53:19 am
If maulers are so OP in siege defense, why do attackers still mostly win?

on eu mostly won defenders, because when maulers and ranged camp ladders it is hell gate for attackers :twisted:
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: IR_Kuoin on March 20, 2012, 09:17:39 am
Nerf maul! Yesterday I was using my plate armor, 54 body armor, and a guy with a maul 1 hit me with full health. The guy had 12PS but c'mon, thats silly that a fully plate man can get 1 hit by a mauler, AND I also had 7 IF (70) hitpoints
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Vibe on March 20, 2012, 09:19:15 am
Nerf maul! Yesterday I was using my plate armor, 54 body armor, and a guy with a maul 1 hit me with full health. The guy had 12PS but c'mon, thats silly that a fully plate man can get 1 hit by a mauler, AND I also had 7 IF (70) hitpoints

Blunt, 12 PS, most probably headshot - makes perfect sense
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: B3RS3RK on March 20, 2012, 09:19:21 am
Well, imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger in his best days hitting you in the head with a steel-headed, 8 kilo hammer(Probably even more in RL xD).


Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: rustyspoon on March 20, 2012, 01:02:49 pm
I still don't buy the maul problem on siege and I play a shit-ton of siege. A lot of the maps have siege towers which negates the ladder problem.

Also, if attackers are working together you can build a siege tower in under a minute. With it, you can reach an area that defense can't even get to.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: camperus on March 20, 2012, 02:37:28 pm
Cry more noobs. When using a maul you cant do so much againts skilled people so if u are crying here looking for a crushtrough nerf u are a noob (and u deserve to be smashed again and again and again and again until you learn how to play).
 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Gricks on March 20, 2012, 03:14:56 pm
Cry more noobs. When using a maul you cant do so much againts skilled people so if u are crying here looking for a crushtrough nerf u are a noob (and u deserve to be smashed again and again and again and again until you learn how to play).
 :rolleyes:

Thanks for the constructive comment.

But seriously-maybe not imbalanced, but still cheap and skill-less.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: _Tak_ on March 20, 2012, 03:30:52 pm
on eu mostly won defenders, because when maulers and ranged camp ladders it is hell gate for attackers :twisted:

This is false, I play on siege quite alot and most of the time I have to say Attackers wins much more than defenders.

let say if there are 100 matches. Attackers will win around 65 rounds while defenders will win 35 rounds. It really depend on the skill of defenders. Once they died it will take 35 seconds to respawn, if all defenders got wiped out together at same time then attackers can capture the flag in less than 10 seconds. Most of the time defenders often fight on walls but never come to flag. Use faction banner, play as defender forover 5 round then you will understand how hard it is to play as a defender.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: IR_Kuoin on March 20, 2012, 03:45:11 pm
Cry more noobs. When using a maul you cant do so much againts skilled people so if u are crying here looking for a crushtrough nerf u are a noob (and u deserve to be smashed again and again and again and again until you learn how to play).
 :rolleyes:

Lol L2p maul noobcake
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: camperus on March 20, 2012, 03:58:57 pm
Thanks for the constructive comment.

But seriously-maybe not imbalanced, but still cheap and skill-less.

Thanks for the constructive comment but using a maul properly needs good blocking skills and footwork (like any infantry without shield), if u dont understand that its because u dont know how to play.

Lol L2p maul noobcake

:-P
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Diomedes on March 20, 2012, 04:51:02 pm
But seriously-maybe not imbalanced, but still cheap and skill-less.

I'm rarely one to say this but... wanna go brah?  I'm an okay 1h and shield and believe I could beat your 'skill-less' maul.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 20, 2012, 06:15:11 pm
I'm rarely one to say this but... wanna go brah?  I'm an okay 1h and shield and believe I could beat your 'skill-less' maul.

(click to show/hide)

I'm a pretty terrible 1h without my shield, and since i'm always on horseback my manual blocking sucks, but I'm betting I could take a skill-less mauler with 1h without a shield.  Hell I'll even use my 73 length 1h broad battle axe and show this guy how to counter a "skill-less" mauler.  Both cases I would use the speed to my advantage.

Or I could go the other direction and use an 89 speed long bardiche (140 length) and show that even 89 speed you can out spam a mauler, or use reach to your advantage.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Phew on March 20, 2012, 11:50:03 pm
You guys are missing the point. No one is claiming Mauls are OP in duel situations, and they are probably balanced in an open group battle situation.

They are just totally, ridiculously OP in siege. Just because it's not abused 24/7 doesn't mean it's fine. Whenever a clan or group of randoms decides to put 2 maulers on every ladder, attackers have no choice but to pour into the meatgrinder like lemmings and hope eventually someone gets through. Any weapon that allows a naked newbie to top the scoreboard while performing only a single attack without even moving needs some adjustment.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Diomedes on March 21, 2012, 02:43:25 am
Any weapon that allows a naked newbie to top the scoreboard while performing only a single attack without even moving needs some adjustment.

That's the siege attackers fault in almost any circumstance.  Of course there's a meatgrinder element to siege when defenders are doing their job.  There are only balance problems when it is unreasonably difficult to get by a player on siege.  But mauls on siege are in their best environment, so of course we can expect that they'll do well.  So, the real question is: is it effectively impossible for reasonably skilled players to get by an average mauler atop a ladder?  Absolutely not.  Two sensible players marching together up a ladder can overcome a mauler in most cases.

Again, I'd be happy to demonstrate this with willing volunteers.  Often I can get by maulers guarding ladders on my own, so it shouldn't be difficult to demonstrate my point.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Rumblood on March 21, 2012, 03:09:33 am
That's the siege attackers fault in almost any circumstance.  Of course there's a meatgrinder element to siege when defenders are doing their job.  There are only balance problems when it is unreasonably difficult to get by a player on siege.  But mauls on siege are in their best environment, so of course we can expect that they'll do well.  So, the real question is: is it effectively impossible for reasonably skilled players to get by an average mauler atop a ladder?  Absolutely not.  Two sensible players marching together up a ladder can overcome a mauler in most cases.

Again, I'd be happy to demonstrate this with willing volunteers.  Often I can get by maulers guarding ladders on my own, so it shouldn't be difficult to demonstrate my point.

Yep. Archer on right side of ladder, melee up on left. Mauler pops his head up to overhead. Face shot. Dead mauler.  :wink:
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Gricks on March 21, 2012, 04:57:04 am
I'm rarely one to say this but... wanna go brah?  I'm an okay 1h and shield and believe I could beat your 'skill-less' maul.

(click to show/hide)

I didn't say they were good for dueling. But go ahead and troll.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Diomedes on March 21, 2012, 05:49:22 am
I didn't say they were good for dueling. But go ahead and troll.

And I didn't say they were bad at dueling.  I implied that the maul is not a 'skill-less' weapon.  I'm not intending to troll anybody here, it's just that I find the proposition that mauls are overpowered ridiculous.  That they've a handful of powerful-yet-still-not-invulnerable environments is not by itself a justification to nerf them, regardless of whether they require 'skill' in those environments. 
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Adamar on March 21, 2012, 05:49:48 am
Skilless, unrealistic and not needed since we need more shielders ingame. Remove mauls.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 21, 2012, 06:51:28 am
Skilless, unrealistic and not needed since we need more shielders ingame. Remove mauls.
No
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: BlackMilk on March 21, 2012, 07:24:51 am
I'm a pretty terrible 1h without my shield, and since i'm always on horseback my manual blocking sucks, but I'm betting I could take a skill-less mauler with 1h without a shield.  Hell I'll even use my 73 length 1h broad battle axe and show this guy how to counter a "skill-less" mauler.  Both cases I would use the speed to my advantage.

Or I could go the other direction and use an 89 speed long bardiche (140 length) and show that even 89 speed you can out spam a mauler, or use reach to your advantage.
So you think Mauls are balanced cause shitty players suck with them?

GM stuns your weapon for ages on side swings and crushes through your block on overheads...then again it's quite easy to run away from a good mauler cause the maul slows them down so much. But you can't tell me that it's "easy" to fight a decent mauler with a good build (24/18 eg)
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: B3RS3RK on March 21, 2012, 08:19:40 am
It´s not easy to fight ANY decent player, that beeing said.

That will be so with the maul, and it will still be so when the enemy has an axe or something.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Leshma on March 21, 2012, 11:02:46 am
It´s not easy to fight ANY decent player, that beeing said.

Depends. When it comes to 2H swords situation is pretty clear there. Better players, even by a small margin usually beat those worse than them. Mauls actually buffs chances of worse player to win against better than him, who's not using maul.

Same can be said for polearms. Reason why noob can be deadly with polearms is polestagger, of course. I have yet to see newb being deadly with any greatsword, they are pretty much easy prey, even in groups.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Spawny on March 21, 2012, 12:03:05 pm
There's a vast difference in my survival time when fighting phyrex with a 2h compared with a great maul.

With a 2h, I can block quite a number of attacks and I might even get a hit or 2 in. When he has a great maul, it's pretty much over within 2 or 3 strikes every time.
I have 18 agility and a 1h weapon and when he has 18 agility, there's no way for me to get in range to hit him, and back out in time. His side swing stuns my tiny 1h sowrd and the overhead kills me or stuns me long enough for him to land the second overhead.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 21, 2012, 01:22:03 pm
I have yet to see newb being deadly with any greatsword, they are pretty much easy prey, even in groups.

Talking about newb weapons... 2h must be the most used one among them.. Just saying...

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Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Vibe on March 21, 2012, 01:41:34 pm
I have yet to see newb being deadly with any greatsword, they are pretty much easy prey, even in groups.

Any player with enough PS that swings his sword like a crazy motherfucker not caring about blocks and shit is deadly if the opponent isn't careful. Ivani4 power
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Angantyr on March 21, 2012, 02:12:05 pm
I'd still argue for Dezi's suggestion about making it crushthrough on shields only..
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: kinngrimm on March 21, 2012, 05:56:56 pm
on eu mostly won defenders, because when maulers and ranged camp ladders it is hell gate for attackers :twisted:
crap Agor found his way into the forum and now i have to look at his bs here too ;) ... so how do i mute players ingame forever out of my chatsystem  :lol:

btt

good players as bad players are using a chrushthrough weapon, both get the bonus, if then in the case someone would have successfully blocked they basicly say fu. What i don't get, that so many people think it is a valid counter to shields ... really :) , in my eyes the only valid counters to shields are shield breakers and cav/ranged in my back, still i hate chrushthrough, because even if i was able to fend of all those other dudes who had been playing really good, there is coming that one dude with the fucking chrusthrough and you cant do jackshit about it(If he gets lucky and actually hits you). This is not about having a shield or not but about an awareness of skillfull playing and the feeling that you have been betrayed somehow by the game mechanics.

Still i guess i would miss the chills, if chrushthrough would be taken out of the game completely.

The Stamina Bar sounds interesting, bigger through Str, regenerating through agi, also a sound concept. But i wouldn't include it on duel servers though, just for Battle/Siege/Strat(i know those are our duels servers ^^)
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Kalp on March 21, 2012, 07:29:21 pm
I just don't understand all this topics where people are crying about this weapon or this. In my 10 generations I played with polearm, 2h [mauls included], 1h+shield and xbow. And I never complain about this or this weapon. Each weapon has its advantages and disadvantages, but the decisive factor which make it good or bad is a HUMAN called PLAYER and his playing style. [In my case, I don't like players which are fast and using spam attack]. No one like to lose, but this is a game. Sometimes you win, sometimes not. I believe that a dev-team make good job and I take game mechanics as it is and I enjoy it, because it change from patch to patch and you must adapt to new challenges. If you don't like it and also crying like 8-year old kid leave it.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Angantyr on March 21, 2012, 09:16:22 pm
Some may think it is fun to have this wildcard mechanic as an added footwork and spam mini-game the attack-block melee aside, and I can to some degree understand that. I can also understand that people think it is a fun weapon to use. Though I personally don't like it much for having an auto-win on hit attack I've tried it a few times and yes it is fun to klonk people over their heads, even if I feel a bit cheesy when doing so.

Think what you will about lolhammers, they are still the only melee weapon that allows a player to kill a more skilled player with an unblockable attack and are also the only completely fantasy weapon in the mod. Either way, I don't care much and I'm also one of those who think the mod is pretty balanced overall, it's not like it's OP or anything, just has a bit gamey mechanic. Let it stay as is if people are so attached to it - but at least change the in-game model to a real Medieval mace of sorts.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: kono yaro! on March 22, 2012, 12:29:28 am
Some may think it is fun to have this wildcard mechanic as an added footwork and spam mini-game the attack-block melee aside, and I can to some degree understand that. I can also understand that people think it is a fun weapon to use. Though I personally don't like it much for having an auto-win on hit attack I've tried it a few times and yes it is fun to klonk people over their heads, even if I feel a bit cheesy when doing so.

Think what you will about lolhammers, they are still the only melee weapon that allows a player to kill a more skilled player with an unblockable attack and are also the only completely fantasy weapon in the mod. Either way, I don't care much and I'm also one of those who think the mod is pretty balanced overall, it's not like it's OP or anything, just has a bit gamey mechanic. Let it stay as is if people are so attached to it - but at least change the in-game model to a real Medieval mace of sorts.

skilled players dont block up vs mauls
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Angantyr on March 22, 2012, 01:01:12 am
You consider writing something completely random and with no relevance to the quote some kind of argument or what is this? Did you even read my post?

And if that was some kind of convoluted l2p provocation go ahead and challenge me to a duel, I'm getting pretty tired of assumptive nubs.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Laufknoten on March 22, 2012, 01:15:39 am
skilled players dont block up vs mauls
Yeah sure, they block the hit with their face like a boss... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Blashyrkh on April 03, 2012, 11:25:02 am
personaly i think that the mauls need some work done, I really don't mind they have crushthrough but on the other hand how come polearms and other 2h axes don't have it? i bet your ass that a really strong person can cleave through a shield if standing stationary?
the other thing that is bothering me its a problem in Warband itself, when someone miss his swing with a maul and then just turns and still hits you and get a crushthrough hit? maybe lowering crushthrough %? you gotta remember that shields we used so people deflected the blows not just to stand with the shield accepting the swing.

well my whine post is complete, nothing will be done about it ... so cya in game :D
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Gurnisson on April 03, 2012, 12:45:46 pm
personaly i think that the mauls need some work done, I really don't mind they have crushthrough but on the other hand how come polearms and other 2h axes don't have it? i bet your ass that a really strong person can cleave through a shield if standing stationary?

Because large and relatively fast weapons with crushthrough with be horribly overpowered? Even if the damage from the crush would be low, you could still be able to crush through lock someone with a large and fast weapon.

the other thing that is bothering me its a problem in Warband itself, when someone miss his swing with a maul and then just turns and still hits you and get a crushthrough hit?

It's a warband bug that one. You can also hit through blocks with any other weapon using the same move. Hit to the side, drag it in near the ground, bypass block. Silly.
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Vibe on April 03, 2012, 02:56:38 pm
I really don't mind they have crushthrough but on the other hand how come polearms and other 2h axes don't have it?

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Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Leshma on April 03, 2012, 03:58:52 pm
Quote
I really don't mind they have crushthrough but on the other hand how come polearms and other 2h axes don't have it?

Bar Mace had crushthrough, you don't want to know whats that like...

Long Iron Maul as well. Before, them Morningstar lost CT, Bec also...

The less CT weapons the better. Problem with Great Maul isn't just CT, Great Maul also has knockdown tag which means even if you can survive one overhead from STR char, you end up on the ground where you can't do shit. So basically, Great Maul is one hit weapon, actually it would be better to say that you can make only one mistake when facing Great Maul user. Spam is the key against it but sadly some people (like me) can't spam because of ping which goes up and down and cancel immediate second swing in a row...
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: v/onMega on April 03, 2012, 04:52:41 pm
The lovers got some arguements, the haters too.

Now, as mentioned, CT weapons are a rare sight. Gnjus kicked of a little wave (totally give him that) attracting ppl. To play as a mauler, that wont last long though.

Maulers will remain a rare sight.

The contrast between a gmauls pro's and its cons is only matched by a long spear and a pike.

Whenever you die by these weapons in a battle you:

Lacked awareness
Picked your fight wrong
Don't know your weapon
Dont know that you can right swing spam most maulers

etc.

How many really good maulers do you see? Less then a handful.

In fact if you carefully follow the list above, you ll always be on top of a mauler...but be sure, the mauler has to play it by the same parameters, just according to his weapon.


So please, dont make this all sound like being a good mauler is sooooo easy. It simply isn t.

I exclude a defensive situation in siege. Yes, having a maul there makes it easy. But thats about it.

Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Coward on April 03, 2012, 05:32:02 pm
Polestagger mauler when he land his attacks...
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Kalp on April 03, 2012, 08:04:27 pm
http://youtu.be/huJ2U3W0Dqo (http://youtu.be/huJ2U3W0Dqo)  :D
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Fartface on April 04, 2012, 01:16:23 pm
Well i'm a deticated mauler.
With 39 str and only 3 agi , I'm realy powerfull alot of onehits but realy slow . But ye in certrain maps it's easy for me to get the 20-1 score but at other maps il get cav fucked alotttt I'm to slow to dodge a good cav man couching and i got no defense against one hander cav and lancer cav can keep bumping me till death:S
Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Akynos on April 06, 2012, 05:53:05 pm
I have played mauler with an alt not so long ago. If anything,I'd say the maul is OP on the chambering time; let me explain:

Whenever I fight against a mauler, I often get CT'ed once, but I then never have time to attack back: As soon as I am hit once,
I'm done, the guy just has to keep pounding me down with an overhead.

When you actually think about it, the force that goes down to crush is enormous: By so, it should take quite some time for the mauler to actually be able to rechamber the overhead, and to be honest, enough time so that a mauler can't crushspam. Only agi 1h seem to be able to hit back after being crushed once.
For me, the maul shouldn't be a weapon for mass spam: It should be a deadly weapon with a one-time usage. For comparaison, in shooter games, it would be the shotgun. And currently, It feels like this 'shotgun' shoots as fast as a machine gun.

So don't get me wrong, don't change CT or anything, not even weapon speed, because then the general speed of the weapon would be decreased, and that wouldn't be balanced. The only thing I would change is the chambering time.It could be done by adding a slight stun on the mauler once he swung the weapon, or if there is one, a longer one.

As for gameplay, it will be simple: You hit once with your GM. You can't spam the guy out: Your chamber is too slow, so you'll have to either 1 shot him or fall back and try to find an opening. To compensate, I think a slight buff to the damage would be fair.

So in a nutshell, here is my idea for a change on the Great Maul: Increase chambering time, increase slightly the damage ( like 2 more blunt base damage).Believe me, this will make the gameplay much more interesting for maulers who will then try sneak attacks more often, and avoid the silly raging we all get when we get spammed by a GM.

Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: HUSTLER on April 06, 2012, 06:06:23 pm
Akynos what your asking for is silly because u forgot how hard it is to get close enough an perform a overhead on anyone who aint a complete noob..

Also you idea would make the maul useless because it´s really hard to perform good with a maul outside siege an it takes some really good timing just to get that 1 overhead in on an aware opponent..

I don't see any reason to change the way mauls work currently its fine only victims are lasy people an noobs who dont know how to counter it..

On contrary to what new players think the maul is a High risk High reward kinda weapon.. If not taking standing on some choke point on siege into account..  :?

Stop nerfing shit, learn to counter a weapons strengths and learn some tactics.

Its a 68 reach weapon with 80 speed rating its pretty simple to counter by basically doing the easy Backwalk an spam just about any weapon can outspam a maul..

Title: Re: Mauls
Post by: Akynos on April 06, 2012, 06:24:48 pm
Akynos what your asking for is silly because u forgot how hard it is to get close enough an perform a overhead on anyone who aint a complete noob..

Also you idea would make the maul useless because it´s really hard to perform good with a maul outside siege an it takes some really good timing just to get that 1 overhead in on an aware opponent..

No it isn't. It is not difficult to hit someone, and not only complete noobs fall for it. I agree that siege makes it easier because of the narrow corridors and such, but it is the same for battle in a town. Heck, it may even be easier on battle, as long as you stay with your group: You don't get ganked and you get free kills whenever someone steps too close. it's sometimes hard to spot a mauler behind a line of shielders.
So no, mauler is not so hard to play. I had an alt mauler, and I used to top the scoreboard regulary, and I'm not such a great player. I didn't need to block, just to keep masturbating my mouse upwards and downwards while clicking. The only thing I needed to do was to 'aim' at the guy.

Sure, if you play against a good player, you won't have such an easy time. But then again, it's not mean to be, right? What I mean is, you can be as strong as you can, if you get hit just once, you're very possibly done, because the guy will just keep maulspamming, no matter how good you are. Hit once ==> dead.
I don't really go for a change in Gm: to me, it's pretty balanced. But if a change is to be made, it wouldn't be about the CT, it would be about the chamber speed only, and that would still be a slight change. I think GM is slightly OP. Of course it is a hard weapon, of course if you are a noob you won't get far, of course you get to kill noobs easely. But that is the same with every other weapon. Hope you understand that :)