cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Michael on February 23, 2011, 04:02:03 pm

Title: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Michael on February 23, 2011, 04:02:03 pm
NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed

As we all know, there is a class for all those people with no battlefield awareness, no defense skill, and its called 2h/polearm spammer.

I cant imagine that someone who is older than 15 can have fun with a playstyle where you hide behind houses, hide behind trees, hide in the hay, hide behind shielders, most of the time, then sneak behind the enemy and kill him from behind.

But meh, different people, different opinions, all okay.

But its silly that you can swing a huge sword/ axe faster than others a small 1h.

Realism is not an argument, I know that. =)

But its silly. The attack power is so high in crpg, a good shield breaks in 1 or 2 axe hits, and then, still, the 2h/polearm guy continues backpedaling and swinging because he doesnt have the ping/skill/ the balls to stay and parry. So the 1h with his smaller weapon has to rush forward, continue parrying successfully a couple of times (if he misses 1 block, hes dead, cos 2h/polearms damage is crazy, even with only 6 power strike I could one shot almost everyone with flamberge, nodachi, tears), and then has to hit the heavy armored 2h/polearm guy a couple of times till his finally dead. And the funny thing is then this guy who doesnt even know how to use a right mouse button spams the chat about 1h spam. Lol? 

Its silly that a 1h has only 2 options:
a) boost his agi like crazy to avoid being outspammed by every idiot with a huge 2h/polearm all the time, therefore being weak, dying often by 1 hit, needing 4 or more hits to kill the opponent
b) being to slow to ever strike back and hit the opponent never, wait till shield breaks, parry as long as he can, and get killed then.

I am not defending my class, I love horses, and always will, so footman is only an option for me on some anti-cav maps anyway.

But when I am more effective with a level 11 2h/polearm than with a level 20 1h/shield, there must be something wrong in the balance of this two classes.

With my lancer/elephant rider hybrid, I have 0 ath, I play with a delay of over a second, and still, I can "outspam" the average shielder with practically every weapon thats above long hafted knobbed mace, and thats not even fun any more.

Hell, I am even more effective when I drop my shield/ put it on the back and fight the 2h/polearm without my shield with my small 1h than with shield. What is also silly.

Whats the point of a shield then?

In native the point of a shield is simple. Its laid-back easy mode. Block the first swing with your shield, then strike, and kill, cos most of 2h/polearms cant parry shit, and they dont have the athletics to stay out of your reach all the time in native, nor do they have the agi/ wpf to outspam the shielder all the time.

In crpg, the point of a shield is what exactly? I havent played much shielder so perhaps I just dont know so tell me. =) To take an arrow that could have hit the 2h my old friend that is hiding behind you?

I think it would be okay/ easier to accept when the 2h guy had some skill, could chamber block and hit you, or at least parry a bit, but simply swinging and backpedaling is enough that the average 2h/polearm can defeat the average 1h/shielder, and that shouldnt be the case imo. Imho in a 1 vs 1 a 1hshielder should have the same chances as the 2h/polearm.
Nowadays in crpg, the 1hshielder can only win when he is really good or the 2h/polearm is really bad. Why do we privilege 2h/polearms? Its also in the upkeep. The best 2h/polearms are cheaper/ not more expensive than 1hs. Does this make sense at all?

2h/polearms need to invest less skill points than all other classes, and cos they are so cheap in upkeep too, we see so many easy-moders with bow and 2h/polearm, what is silly, and, to tell the truth, what makes me angry because they can use it 100 % of their playtime, while we noblemen have to use really bad gear most of the time.

My suggestion to solve this 2h/polearm  is simple. Reduce the weapon speed to a more realistic level.


Longsword, heavy bastard: 95 speed

normal 2h swords: 90 speed

Greatswords/ long hafted blade/ glaive: 85

(pole)axes: 80   


Katana, reduce the swing damage to 25. Its a peasant cutter! Its silly that 3 power strike is enough to kill many enemies in good armor with a simple left-right-swing combo.

2h thrust damage should be not more than 15, 20 at most. Its silly that most 2hs dance around and stab, thats all they do. Greatswords were slash-weapons, the Romans short sword was a stab weapon.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Christo on February 23, 2011, 04:09:11 pm
Weird.. one-handers became very fast now, shielder guy can facehug/lolspam you with fast swords, or hard-hitting blunt weapons. Use a damned Huscarl lolshield for epic originality, you'll pwn. Also, lowering the speed of polearms like crazy, are you mad? If such a downgrade will happen, a serious damage compensation is needed because of the speed trade-off.

I agree about the Katana/Greatsword thing, maybe it's a bit tough, but an interesting idea.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Punisher on February 23, 2011, 04:13:10 pm
Also buff 1h speed more while you are at it. 100 should be minimum speed, weapons like scimitar should have 110 at least.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Christo on February 23, 2011, 04:14:01 pm
Also buff 1h speed more while you are at it. 100 should be minimum speed, weapons like scimitar should have 110 at least.

Yeah sure, we don't have enough 1h lolspammers anyway..
They should get lower damage though, one-hit from a stupid sidespam-sword can instakill Platemail 6 IF when it's 'loomed, o.o
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Sir_Ironlake on February 23, 2011, 04:21:26 pm
Isnt a better solution to slow down backpaddleing?
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Phyrex on February 23, 2011, 04:22:13 pm
This is one of the most retarded threads I've ever seen.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on February 23, 2011, 04:30:58 pm
This is one of the most retarded threads I've ever seen.

agree
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Punisher on February 23, 2011, 04:33:54 pm
Yeah sure, we don't have enough 1h lolspammers anyway..
They should get lower damage though, one-hit from a stupid sidespam-sword can instakill Platemail 6 IF when it's 'loomed, o.o

Should have put a [sarcasm] tag on that post :)

This is one of the most retarded threads I've ever seen.

I didn't even waste my time reading past the first 2 lines, this comes from Michael, what else can you expect?
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Seawied on February 23, 2011, 04:37:25 pm
the TL;DR version of the original post

Quote
I GOTS KILLED BY A POLEARM!!!111!!1! :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Terrible idea that would make this game slow as molasses... with exception to anyone who used a 1h weapon without a shield.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Punisher on February 23, 2011, 04:38:44 pm
Well no need to worry, I know for sure no dev will ever implement something coming from Michael.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Christo on February 23, 2011, 04:39:27 pm
Should have put a [sarcasm] tag on that post :)

I didn't even waste my time reading past the first 2 lines, this comes from Michael, what else can you expect?

Oh, I see. Okay then.  :wink:
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Furax on February 23, 2011, 04:40:26 pm
"spam spam spam" its all I hear theese days, YOU CANT BE OUTSPAMMED UNLESS YOUR AN IDIOT(or use the great maul) and even then its basically only the overhead strike which can be outspammed.

There is no build or weapon which will allow you to swing wildly without ever having to block(sucessfully), im not saying people dont do it, but thats just because theyr bad players and if they meet an avreage player theyre dead.

And I suspect alot of lowskilled/new players think feints are completed swings=/

And to anyone who belives otherwise I suggest you read this guide by Formless:http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1545.0.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1545.0.html)
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Babelfish on February 23, 2011, 04:44:43 pm
This is one of the most retarded threads I've ever seen.

+1
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Spawny on February 23, 2011, 05:50:12 pm
"spam spam spam" its all I hear theese days, YOU CANT BE OUTSPAMMED UNLESS YOUR AN IDIOT(or use the great maul) and even then its basically only the overhead strike which can be outspammed.

There is no build or weapon which will allow you to swing wildly without ever having to block(sucessfully), im not saying people dont do it, but thats just because theyr bad players and if they meet an avreage player theyre dead.

Try a full strength character vs an agility build (21 or higher) with a longsword/heavy bastard/katana. You will get outspammed pretty hard.

The only true issue I have with 1h/shield is the speed of the shield. You can get it up quite fast, but it's so slow to drop when you attack.
I can fight people who are just waiting for me to start an attack. Then, as soon as they see the animation start (my character slowly dropping his shield before raising his arm to strike), they swing and hit me first.

Damage and speed of 1h is fine without a shield, but the speed and damage difference with the longer great swords is so minimal, there's no reason to fight with a 1h/no shield build unless you go for style/deliberatly want to gimp yourself.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: bruce on February 23, 2011, 06:29:42 pm
Damage and speed of 1h is fine without a shield, but the speed and damage difference with the longer great swords is so minimal, there's no reason to fight with a 1h/no shield build unless you go for style/deliberatly want to gimp yourself.

Sensible, isn't it?

But anyway, I do fine with my shielder hybrid... if someone doesn't want to fight but wants to spam feints or do whatever, I'll backpedal away.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Tempest on February 23, 2011, 06:48:44 pm
This is one of the most retarded threads I've ever seen.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: IG_Saint on February 23, 2011, 06:49:45 pm
This is one of the most retarded threads I've ever seen.

I was planning to type a detailed and in depth post as to why michael is wrong and then I decided to just say fuck it and quote phyrex.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Gorath on February 23, 2011, 07:22:42 pm
This is one of the most retarded threads I've ever seen.

Well it IS Michael/Finished.  He's part of the special few that are truly legitimately terrible at the game and incapable of posting anything but gibbering drivel.  Like balton and trippin.  Good for your daily Nelson-esque point and laugh fix.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Diomedes on February 23, 2011, 08:06:25 pm
I'm a sword and board right now and I'd like to chime in by saying I'm happy with speed balance right now.  Currently the weapons which really scare me are the side sword, steel pick, great long bardiche, and the great long axe.  As it should be right?
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Michael on February 24, 2011, 12:45:07 am
Just tried it on duel server.

This char has atm over 100 wpf in 1h, and 1 in 2h.

I am better with peasant cutter katana (2h version) where I have invested not one single weapon point and no shield, than with every 1h weapon I tried (Scimitar, Elite Scimitar, Steel Pick, Sarranid Cavalry Sword, all types of axes, Military Sickle, all types of sabres, yeah), with Nordic shield, or without shield.

Please never ever someone say katana needs skill.

The question now is, however, for what exactly do I invest skill points in Shield and Weapon Master to boost 1h wpf, when its totally useless?
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Punisher on February 24, 2011, 12:48:15 am
If you post a screenshot with youself getting a 3-0 score with a peasant cutter katana (2h version) where you have invested not one single weapon point and no shield it will be considered a valid argument and therefore the dev team will have no choice but to implement your suggestions.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Furax on February 24, 2011, 12:51:59 am
The only true issue I have with 1h/shield is the speed of the shield. You can get it up quite fast, but it's so slow to drop when you attack.
I can fight people who are just waiting for me to start an attack. Then, as soon as they see the animation start (my character slowly dropping his shield before raising his arm to strike), they swing and hit me first.

Yes, whilst I agree with you that time from block to attack is way slower than not using a shield, its still not spamable. I was doing fine on my 1hander with 9 agi and an axe versus katana users so.. The only times I  get "outspammed" is when I overestimate the skill of the enemy and he does not try to block when I feint=/
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Thomek on February 24, 2011, 12:54:49 am
Finshed/Michael

Stop ranting about. With 100+ ping you have no say in any wep-balance discussion. The game is simply unbalanced for all with that high pings, the netcode cant deal with it.. Why you even want to play this game with that ping is a mystery to me. Make an archer or smth.. but stay out of any melee discussions.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: bruce on February 24, 2011, 01:04:29 am
The question now is, however, for what exactly do I invest skill points in Shield and Weapon Master to boost 1h wpf, when its totally useless?

Idk, I have 4 shield skill, a knightly heather and a 2x heirloomed sarranid cavalry sword for horseback slashing and I do decently well on foot. It took a bit of getting used to after using a long polearm but I really don't see the problem now that you can't get 2331231 wpf through retirements and agistacking.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: IG_Saint on February 24, 2011, 01:25:12 am
Just tried it on duel server.

This char has atm over 100 wpf in 1h, and 1 in 2h.

I am better with peasant cutter katana (2h version) where I have invested not one single weapon point and no shield, than with every 1h weapon I tried (Scimitar, Elite Scimitar, Steel Pick, Sarranid Cavalry Sword, all types of axes, Military Sickle, all types of sabres, yeah), with Nordic shield, or without shield.

Please never ever someone say katana needs skill.

The question now is, however, for what exactly do I invest skill points in Shield and Weapon Master to boost 1h wpf, when its totally useless?

And here's a picture of me doing 54/11 on the duel server with my 1H:
(click to show/hide)
Just because you suck with 1hs doesn't mean they're bad weapons. Likewise just because I can do well with them doesn't make them overpowered. They're fine.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Xant on February 24, 2011, 01:39:49 am
Just tried it on duel server.

This char has atm over 100 wpf in 1h, and 1 in 2h.

I am better with peasant cutter katana (2h version) where I have invested not one single weapon point and no shield, than with every 1h weapon I tried (Scimitar, Elite Scimitar, Steel Pick, Sarranid Cavalry Sword, all types of axes, Military Sickle, all types of sabres, yeah), with Nordic shield, or without shield.

Please never ever someone say katana needs skill.

The question now is, however, for what exactly do I invest skill points in Shield and Weapon Master to boost 1h wpf, when its totally useless?

By "Better" do you mean that you managed 1 kill, 56 deaths with katana and 0 kills, 56 deaths with 1h?

Well Michael, I'm here to tell you that even you can get lucky sometimes!

So take part in Euromillions lottery, today is your day! Seize the moment!
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Babelfish on February 24, 2011, 01:46:03 am
And here's a picture of me doing 54/11 on the duel server with my 1H:
(click to show/hide)
Just because you suck with 1hs doesn't mean they're bad weapons. Likewise just because I can do well with them doesn't make them overpowered. They're fine.

Was gonna say something similar, but you beat me to it :(
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Seawied on February 24, 2011, 04:08:24 am
By "Better" do you mean that you managed 1 kill, 56 deaths with katana and 0 kills, 56 deaths with 1h?

Well Michael, I'm here to tell you that even you can get lucky sometimes!

So take part in Euromillions lottery, today is your day! Seize the moment!

 :lol:
God wills it!
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Patricia on February 24, 2011, 04:18:21 am
Try a full strength character vs an agility build (21 or higher) with a longsword/heavy bastard/katana. You will get outspammed pretty hard.

The only true issue I have with 1h/shield is the speed of the shield. You can get it up quite fast, but it's so slow to drop when you attack.
I can fight people who are just waiting for me to start an attack. Then, as soon as they see the animation start (my character slowly dropping his shield before raising his arm to strike), they swing and hit me first.

Damage and speed of 1h is fine without a shield, but the speed and damage difference with the longer great swords is so minimal, there's no reason to fight with a 1h/no shield build unless you go for style/deliberatly want to gimp yourself.

I have a full strength build with 3 agi and a 88 speed weapon and I don't get outspammed by agi builds :)
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Xant on February 24, 2011, 04:25:40 am
Indeed-o, footwork's the name of the game.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: [ptx] on February 24, 2011, 10:01:08 am
This is one of the most retarded threads I've ever seen.
Nah, i've seen better. Michael/Finished must be getting sloppy, this is rather boring trollery.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: DrKronic on February 24, 2011, 07:04:32 pm
Nah, i've seen better. Michael/Finished must be getting sloppy, this is rather boring trollery.

True I mean you can actually use the best hyperspeed one handers(heirloomed once I recommend) without a shield and get good kills, following this would only exacerbate that issue

(this requires modest manual blocking and feinting a wee  bit but I know firsthand this works with steel pick and side sword)
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on February 24, 2011, 10:36:55 pm
I nearly thought about responding to his arguments in this thread. But you guys already did it for me, so thank you for saving me some time :)
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Torp on February 24, 2011, 10:45:06 pm
honestly; this whole thread is trolling.

I've played 2h and polearm alot, and i'd say im average-a little above average.
When i play my lvl 25 shielder alt, it's pure easymode and i get a kill-death ratio of 3 without even trying... it is so much easier.

also, i've had 12/27 twice heirloomed katana build, and still i could only outspam 1/10 players, as spamming is simply not an effective way of plying.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Siiem on February 25, 2011, 05:30:32 am
My 1h lvl 18 alt, if you can't manage with any 1h weapon... well then sorry pal, wake up and smell the coffee. 
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Aldwyn on March 01, 2011, 09:47:16 pm
I've played both classes, and can easily say 2h is way easier.  The only time 1h has advantage is fighting in a crowd, as a 1h I often killed one or two and caused some tks before I died.  As 2h though, If I find a shielder or 2 alone I can manuver around them and simply right swing spam until they fuck up timing and die or hit them around their shield.  It's exceptionally easy to kill 90% of shielders, of course there are those that somehow (I don't know how) mastered the class like ManoWar or Balbaroth.  To counter awesome 2h spam and damage, I'd say increase all 1h speeds by 10 to compensate for the slow shield lowering animation.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Mustang_Sweets on March 01, 2011, 10:14:29 pm
I only have a problem with the animations the 1h wiffs on face hugging whilst the polearm and 2h  can do so as much as they want and still do normal to good damge. The 1h is very crippled i went with an 8 ps 1h and still average the kills I do with my 4 ps and 27 agi 1h now both of these i had to ditch the shield in order to have killing ability. In a way it seems like 1h shielders are built for being that wall you need for the team and for being that man with survivability.

As a 1h shielder your job is to get in the way and support that way not to be the killer, you are there to stall a good player till he can be swarmed or waste an archers arrows.

But, I will repeat myself about the animation, if you are face hugging a polearm or 2h you should be wiffed on because they already have the range on your weapon if you are a 1h.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Xant on March 01, 2011, 10:23:06 pm
If I find a shielder or 2 alone I can manuver around them and simply right swing spam until they fuck up timing and die or hit them around their shield.

lol wat.

Maybe if they just bought M&B and they're drunk on elderberries you can do that.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Torp on March 01, 2011, 10:26:32 pm
lol wat.

Maybe if they just bought M&B and they're drunk on elderberries you can do that.

+1
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Aldwyn on March 01, 2011, 10:50:38 pm
most shielders can't fight like balbaroth can...
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Xant on March 01, 2011, 10:53:00 pm
most shielders can't fight like balbaroth can...

Yes most shielders can't even follow targets, imagine how they'd do as 2h with manual blocking when they have to both follow AND block  :o
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Siiem on March 01, 2011, 11:00:51 pm
Shield coverage has been nerfed hard, still fun to see turtles that haven't realized this yet, and just rmbs without turning towards the attack somewhat. Then you move to their side and slash them, however such sighting are extremely rare.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Murrogh on March 02, 2011, 01:59:23 am
I've played both classes, and can easily say 2h is way easier.  The only time 1h has advantage is fighting in a crowd, as a 1h I often killed one or two and caused some tks before I died.  As 2h though, If I find a shielder or 2 alone I can manuver around them and simply right swing spam until they fuck up timing and die or hit them around their shield.  It's exceptionally easy to kill 90% of shielders, of course there are those that somehow (I don't know how) mastered the class like ManoWar or Balbaroth.  To counter awesome 2h spam and damage, I'd say increase all 1h speeds by 10 to compensate for the slow shield lowering animation.
Adding 10 speed to 1-handers would make the good 1-handed weapons incredibly overpowered.

Many shielders notice the amount of time that it takes to lower a shield. This is actually very fast. The main delay is the shield blocking animation, this gives a large delay between when you successfully block an attack and when you can respond. If any changes were to be made, I would suggest changing this animation (or make it be sped up by shield skill).


However, shielders do not seem to be an underpowered class to me. The fact that many 1-handed weps already have over 100 speed makes it possible to make up for slow shield response time by using proper footwork, forcing glances or even removing your shield if you are in a 1v1 battle.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: bruce on March 02, 2011, 02:09:38 am
To be honest, with a 2x heirloomed SCS and a 21/15 build with 120 wpf, the only time I can remember I could not counterattack (rather then "I failed to do it properly") was vs a sidesword (1h) spammer with 20 ping less then me.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Native_ATS on March 02, 2011, 02:26:19 am
2h thrust damage should be not more than 15, 20 at most. Its silly that most 2hs dance around and stab, thats all they do. Greatswords were slash-weapons, the Romans short sword was a stab weapon.
saddly i say this part is true lol, am tried of people just spaming thrust as they run away
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Xant on March 02, 2011, 03:53:31 am
15 thrust damage for greatswords would be beyond silly.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Vibe on March 02, 2011, 07:37:52 am
As long as the 1h keeps hugging you, even without shield, 1h>2h.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Memento_Mori on March 02, 2011, 04:06:45 pm
I stopped reading when I read that you can effectively kill armored enemies with a katana & 3 power strike..

GOOD LUCK MICHAEL, maybe you'd like to test this on the duel server, you make a new character level them up to 9 str and we'll see how many hits of the katana it takes to kill me with no IF & milanese plate.
rough estimate, even with a speed bonus it's taking at least 6 hits.

I don't see a problem with the speed differences anymore, shielders are paying back the 2h/pole spammers with their own kind of spam now that most of their swords got a speed buff.

Next problem to tackle in CRPG - learning how to block & counter attack effectively.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: RandomDude on March 03, 2011, 07:18:21 pm
Lil bored, answers in bold.

NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed

Because of a backpedaller?

As we all know, there is a class for all those people with no battlefield awareness, no defense skill, and its called 2h/polearm spammer.

No battlefield awareness usually = dead player no?

I cant imagine that someone who is older than 15 can have fun with a playstyle where you hide behind houses, hide behind trees, hide in the hay, hide behind shielders, most of the time, then sneak behind the enemy and kill him from behind.

So this is just against ninja's now? Or maybe these guys dont want to be shot/javved/throwing axed etc

But meh, different people, different opinions, all okay.

But its silly that you can swing a huge sword/ axe faster than others a small 1h.

No opinion about that except that i can kill 2hs with my 1h

Realism is not an argument, I know that. =)

But its silly. The attack power is so high in crpg, a good shield breaks in 1 or 2 axe hits, and then, still, the 2h/polearm guy continues backpedaling and swinging because he doesnt have the ping/skill/ the balls to stay and parry. So the 1h with his smaller weapon has to rush forward, continue parrying successfully a couple of times (if he misses 1 block, hes dead, cos 2h/polearms damage is crazy, even with only 6 power strike I could one shot almost everyone with flamberge, nodachi, tears), and then has to hit the heavy armored 2h/polearm guy a couple of times till his finally dead. And the funny thing is then this guy who doesnt even know how to use a right mouse button spams the chat about 1h spam. Lol? 

Pssh. Darn those silly ppl spamming about spam. They'll make threads about it next!

Its silly that a 1h has only 2 options:
a) boost his agi like crazy to avoid being outspammed by every idiot with a huge 2h/polearm all the time, therefore being weak, dying often by 1 hit, needing 4 or more hits to kill the opponent
b) being to slow to ever strike back and hit the opponent never, wait till shield breaks, parry as long as he can, and get killed then.

Even great maul has a chance to attack after a successful block, no?

I am not defending my class, I love horses, and always will, so footman is only an option for me on some anti-cav maps anyway.

But when I am more effective with a level 11 2h/polearm than with a level 20 1h/shield, there must be something wrong in the balance of this two classes.

With my lancer/elephant rider hybrid, I have 0 ath, I play with a delay of over a second, and still, I can "outspam" the average shielder with practically every weapon thats above long hafted knobbed mace, and thats not even fun any more.

I try and go for the guys i think are best on their team.

Hell, I am even more effective when I drop my shield/ put it on the back and fight the 2h/polearm without my shield with my small 1h than with shield. What is also silly.

Whats the point of a shield then?

Blocking ranged. Blocking mutliple opponents at once. No manual block.

In native the point of a shield is simple. Its laid-back easy mode. Block the first swing with your shield, then strike, and kill, cos most of 2h/polearms cant parry shit, and they dont have the athletics to stay out of your reach all the time in native, nor do they have the agi/ wpf to outspam the shielder all the time.

In crpg, the point of a shield is what exactly? I havent played much shielder so perhaps I just dont know so tell me. =) To take an arrow that could have hit the 2h my old friend that is hiding behind you?

I think it would be okay/ easier to accept when the 2h guy had some skill, could chamber block and hit you, or at least parry a bit, but simply swinging and backpedaling is enough that the average 2h/polearm can defeat the average 1h/shielder, and that shouldnt be the case imo. Imho in a 1 vs 1 a 1hshielder should have the same chances as the 2h/polearm.
Nowadays in crpg, the 1hshielder can only win when he is really good or the 2h/polearm is really bad. Why do we privilege 2h/polearms? Its also in the upkeep. The best 2h/polearms are cheaper/ not more expensive than 1hs. Does this make sense at all?

2h/polearms need to invest less skill points than all other classes, and cos they are so cheap in upkeep too, we see so many easy-moders with bow and 2h/polearm, what is silly, and, to tell the truth, what makes me angry because they can use it 100 % of their playtime, while we noblemen have to use really bad gear most of the time.

My suggestion to solve this 2h/polearm  is simple. Reduce the weapon speed to a more realistic level.

You dont have to follow his backpedal. 1hs can move backwards and forwards too until the 2h/PA makes a mistake and gets too close.

Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: [ptx] on March 08, 2011, 09:28:21 pm
Contrary to popular belief, 1h in c-rpg is not really easy-mode (unless you got really pimped out gear and stats :D).
It requires a very different skillset from the other classes - you don't need skill to defend yourself, but it takes way better timing to return attacks, whilst you also need to aim these attacks much more precisely. Footwork is extremely important.
I really don't see how someone having these skills could whine about 1h being underpowered. Boring, yes, underpowered, no.
Conclusion - Michael is a constant noob.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: bruce on March 08, 2011, 11:12:54 pm
Contrary to popular belief, 1h in c-rpg is not really easy-mode (unless you got really pimped out gear and stats :D).
It requires a very different skillset from the other classes - you don't need skill to defend yourself, but it takes way better timing to return attacks, whilst you also need to aim these attacks much more precisely. Footwork is extremely important.
I really don't see how someone having these skills could whine about 1h being underpowered. Boring, yes, underpowered, no.
Conclusion - Michael is a constant noob.

This.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Noble Crassius on March 08, 2011, 11:18:11 pm
Not really that different or are you saying 2handers do not have to worry about foot work and timing? cuz I would disagree with that heavily. 1hands may have to worry more about foot work but they make up for it in the fact they don't have to worry at all about blocking.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: UrLukur on March 08, 2011, 11:21:44 pm
Not really that different or are you saying 2handers do not have to worry about foot work and timing? cuz I would disagree with that heavily. 1hands may have to worry more about foot work but they make up for it in the fact they don't have to worry at all about blocking.

They have to worry LESS about blocking, not 'don't have to worry at all about blocking'. Especially those with kite/heather/tower shields. They still have to use that rmb and account for shield speed too.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Zisa on March 09, 2011, 03:48:39 am
(click to show/hide)
I love how these notions spread from subsection to subsection, like mold or fungus..

a. Agi builds did indeed get screwed this patch. Oh well.
b. I DID make a 9 str 33 agility 198 wpf with masterwork katana - it is underwhelming. Against armored opponents expect to get 3 hits in before missing a block and getting one shotted.
c. With the exception of 1h AND shield, 31 wpf is quite adequate for a strength build, run into my thrower and find out.
d. When carrying a shield, you WANT wpf to make up for the shield slowing you down, lightly armored or not.
e. katana needs skill if you want to be any good with it.
f. Good shielders are the TOUGHEST thing to fight as a katana wielder.
g. Ever thought maybe you are actually just really bad with one handers? Watch some good ones and learn some tips, or, if learning is not your thing, MAKE THE MONTHLY POST WHINING ABOUT IT.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Gorath on March 09, 2011, 03:51:32 am
@ Zisa:  It's Michael.  He's absolutely horrid at the game and only ever had any kind of success running his "elephant" character holding RMB with multiple shields running people over on a plated charger.  In other words, ignore his posts except to point and laugh.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Seawied on March 09, 2011, 11:01:32 pm
Why are you guys keeping this thread alive? Just let it die to the anal of history


no that's not a misquote. It was a 'pun'ny
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 09, 2011, 11:09:57 pm
Why are you guys keeping this thread alive? Just let it die to the anal of history


no that's not a misquote. It was a 'pun'ny

*dies*

I see what you did there... +1 cookie
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Bonze on March 10, 2011, 12:20:37 am
Finshed/Michael

Stop ranting about. With 100+ ping you have no say in any wep-balance discussion. The game is simply unbalanced for all with that high pings, the netcode cant deal with it..

native is playable with higher pings but the donkey god preferred wild laggy click orgies with quake 3 speed. Thats why the servers are full with ranged shit....
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Xant on March 10, 2011, 12:46:56 am
Q3 speed.. lawl!
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 10, 2011, 12:51:35 am

native is playable with higher pings but the donkey god preferred wild laggy click orgies with quake 3 speed. Thats why the servers are full with ranged shit....

You do realize that with high ping archery is harder then melee, right? We use snail rounds in this server, not the ballistic missiles of pre-patch, and thus leading and predicting a target becomes almost impossible with high ping. Spamming in melee has been proven to net more kills then spamming at range, though you do die sooner.

EDIT: And this is slower then Quake 3. Much much slower, not even comparable. Q3 if you were seen for more then half a second people called you crap for being so slow. If you could not get at least two headshots in one second you were also slow. Now that game gave me seizures with the rampant mad jumping bunny hopping bullet storm every-one-is-on-speed gameplay.

cRPG you have an insane amount of time to think about what is happening next compared to Q3 which made Korean SC1 players look like they were moving normal.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Gorath on March 10, 2011, 12:53:06 am
  with quake 3 speed

You obviously never played Q3.  And if you think this is fast, you wouldn't have been able to hang with us old school FPS'ers anyways. 
Air-juggle kills pwn M&B ranged my old friends with our slow ass movement speed  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSe6jNBGDMM)
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 10, 2011, 01:07:49 am
You obviously never played Q3.  And if you think this is fast, you wouldn't have been able to hang with us old school FPS'ers anyways. 
Air-juggle kills pwn M&B ranged my old friends with our slow ass movement speed  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSe6jNBGDMM)

And this is why I have no respect for the majority of the newer generation of FPS players. This is a slowed-down video of Q3 and it is still faster then almost everything in the market now. Most FPSes are easy mode compared to this, and I will always crack up when young players talk about the next "twitch" game.

This is real ability to lead a target and bounce on demand. Sure, Q3 may have been imbalanced, but it sharpened reflexes like nothing else. And to think some players still complain about the projectiles moving too fast in this game...
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Zisa on March 10, 2011, 03:53:35 am
Try GTAIV for mega dissapointment 'shooter' wise. Made me long for UT.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: DrKronic on March 10, 2011, 04:39:54 am
Console game shooters have pussified "twitch" games with all the aiming help, removal of prone/leaning, I.e. halo, etc and now most pc shooters are ported to pc with most effort being put into consoles (16 man call of duty. Mw2 server=fail) 

("Magnet" projectiles that bend toward target, etc)

My friend bought me a ps3 and shooters are so boring on a gamepad compared to mouse and keyboard, but I was playing on compys in the eighties so I am a dinosaur compared to the average kid who plays games nowadays
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Gorath on March 10, 2011, 05:50:39 am
Agreed with all 3 of you above me.

I still hit up Quake Live quite a bit to get my fix.  But like you guys have made mention to as well, I'm a dinosaur in gamer years (30) as I grew up with all this shit.  I still have longing memories of playing Dukem on T.E.N. for close to two years hardcore (meaning 5-10+ hours a day, sometimes 24+ hours with no sleep at home on dial up and at lans on the weekend) in my youth.

New FPS gamers have no fucking clue about intense twitch gaming.

Speaking of Quake Live.  If any of you old-timers play it as well like I do, hit me up.  I go by Vap0rWare or SnakeEyz (first gaming handle I ever had).  We can set up some matches for lulz.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G45tMacGSDg&feature=related
Map knowledge, aim, movement control, timing, strategy.  All performed in micro second adjustments.  New games still don't compare to the classics.

Speaking of nostalgia:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kT_WGrL3Fs
Same handle (SnakeEyz).  Hit me up.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Spawny on March 10, 2011, 12:43:18 pm
I used to play Q3 Arena with the instagib mod on CTF mode. Settings in such a way you could use the railgun to jump, making it possible to get from your flag to the enemy flag and back in under 20 seconds.
There was no recharge on the railgun.

That was fast pased action :P
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Vibe on March 10, 2011, 01:09:37 pm
I actually played quite some Q3A, was quite good with rocket launcher (hitting people in air with rocket is skillZ).

But then I found about Q3 trickjumping... man now that's some hard shit to master :)
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Paul on March 10, 2011, 05:27:53 pm
Strafejumping was an awesome feature in Q3 and JKO/JKA. When being skilled in it, it made oneself several times faster and being able to jump alot further than the other players. Loved it.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Babelfish on March 10, 2011, 05:43:13 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWDF64RC4lA&feature=related

This brings back memories =D
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: rustyspoon on March 30, 2011, 07:14:11 am
God, I miss all those old games. When the original Quake first came out, it totally blew my mind. It happened again with the original Unreal. I miss the days where a game could actually amaze you. Now it's just the same old shit.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Bonze on March 30, 2011, 08:54:00 pm
You obviously never played Q3.  And if you think this is fast, you wouldn't have been able to hang with us old school FPS'ers anyways. 
Air-juggle kills pwn M&B ranged my old friends with our slow ass movement speed  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSe6jNBGDMM)

Buy a  courser or sarranid  horse - heirloom your horse to champion  - invest 6-10 in riding - join  a random server -  press R - play more then 20 min with your horse in  first-person view

Are you through with it?
Look at this picture for the next 2 hours.

thanks






visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: rustyspoon on March 31, 2011, 03:32:18 am
Buy a  courser or sarranid  horse - heirloom your horse to champion  - invest 6-10 in riding - join  a random server -  press R - play more then 20 min with your horse in  first-person view

Are you through with it?
Look at this picture for the next 2 hours.

thanks



Going to have to disagree with you here. Regardless of how fast you can get a horse to move in this game, you are still only worrying about the x and y axis. Now, if you were jumping 40 feet in the air with that horse and stabbing people mid-air who were moving just as fast but moving in an entirely different direction I might agree with you. As it stands though, you are wrong.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: kinngrimm on March 31, 2011, 07:23:17 am
It took some guts to go against all those 2h/polearms, it is like a sign which says "hate me". Respect for that Michal.
Since i started playing half a year ago i managed to become a averadge to perhaps even a good player with my 1h/shielder. I still stand in disbelief before all those fantastic players with their great abilities in manual blocking without a shield. I try it myself time over time but just cant get the hang of it ... yet.
After generation 8, i had a masterwork huscarl and went all out agi.
I did so because of 2h/polearm spammers, that was my reason behind it, to create a build which can handle those.
Nowadays i try less agi and slowly find a balance which will be best for my playstyle. I guess i will allways have more agi then str, to compensate agi or less skill, put it as you want. I have seen you Michal with your shielder and you did mostly pretty good.

Spawny :
"The only true issue I have with 1h/shield is the speed of the shield. You can get it up quite fast, but it's so slow to drop when you attack.
I can fight people who are just waiting for me to start an attack. Then, as soon as they see the animation start (my character slowly dropping his shield before raising his arm to strike), they swing and hit me first."

true


RandomDude
"You dont have to follow his backpedal. 1hs can move backwards and forwards too until the 2h/PA makes a mistake and gets too close."
till the shield breaks, or he just jumps out of range if the 1h/shield attacks and spams at that moment, works often, if the the 2h/polearm guy is at least with same ath, the 1h/shielder has a difficult time trying to hug, additional weigth from the shield or getting shield stuned slows them down.

ptx:
"Contrary to popular belief, 1h in c-rpg is not really easy-mode (unless you got really pimped out gear and stats :D).
It requires a very different skillset from the other classes - you don't need skill to defend yourself, but it takes way better timing to return attacks, whilst you also need to aim these attacks much more precisely. Footwork is extremely important."

true

So why are mostly 2h/polearm players at the top of the board? skill or perhaps imbalance or a combination of both? If imbalance, is it because of the thinking it takes more skill to block with them so it must be easier to kill with them?
I repeat i have a great deal of respect of those who have mastered blocking but how much benefits should they get in opposite to the 1h/shielders who cant block in the same way, but will loose their shield and ability block at some point and who have an additional animation that takes time and additional weight to burden them?
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Gorath on April 02, 2011, 10:05:41 am
Buy a  courser or sarranid  horse - heirloom your horse to champion  - invest 6-10 in riding - join  a random server -  press R - play more then 20 min with your horse in  first-person view

Are you through with it?
Look at this picture for the next 2 hours.

thanks

Still doesn't even come CLOSE to the SPEED of old school quake games, nor requiring nearly the same timing and precision to pull off air juggles against a strafe jumping opponent (while weapon swapping for rocket to rail combos).  Sorry, stare at your own picture.  M&B speed doesn't compare to real FPS games (not the shit that the x-box generation of halo-tards play).
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: [ptx] on April 02, 2011, 12:26:18 pm
So why are mostly 2h/polearm players at the top of the board? skill or perhaps imbalance or a combination of both? If imbalance, is it because of the thinking it takes more skill to block with them so it must be easier to kill with them?
I repeat i have a great deal of respect of those who have mastered blocking but how much benefits should they get in opposite to the 1h/shielders who cant block in the same way, but will loose their shield and ability block at some point and who have an additional animation that takes time and additional weight to burden them?
What i meant with my post is that 1h/shield requires a different approach than 2h/polearms. If you try to play in the same way you would with a 2h or a polearm, you will either fail or only have an average performance.
1h/shield play a different role on a battlefield, if they exploit it, they win.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Osiris on April 02, 2011, 01:04:21 pm
Good 1h players with steel shield and pick etc are a pain in the ass :P the left slash is so quick i find it difficult to see in time to block sometimes :D (i suck btw) The thing with 1h players is that the mistake is yours to make :D if i meet a 2h player he is more likley to make a mistake allowing me to kill then a 1h if you know what i mean....
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Otaku_HyeZa on April 04, 2011, 07:02:29 pm
I think that is needed "reduce"
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Digglez on April 09, 2011, 08:51:58 am
you know the game is horribly unbalanced when 75% of all kills are from 2h and high level polearms.

1h weapons and low level polearms (pike/spears) are a complete joke.

2h swing speed needs to be dramatically reduced, specifically anything crush or cut.  What makes sense is 2h weapons being able to cleave thru multiple people
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Siiem on April 09, 2011, 09:06:38 am
you know the game is horribly unbalanced when 75% of all kills are from 2h and high level polearms.

1h weapons and low level polearms (pike/spears) are a complete joke.

2h swing speed needs to be dramatically reduced, specifically anything crush or cut.  What makes sense is 2h weapons being able to cleave thru multiple people

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Digglez on April 09, 2011, 11:01:20 am
let us know when you graduate high school and can post intelligent debate instead of regurgitating quotes like a mindless parrot
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Thucydides on April 09, 2011, 11:06:35 am
Diggles, you need to play CRPG. All i see are shielders and range, with a few people using 2h and polearm. 1h actually has the same extra "thrust" range as 2hers, sometimes the sarranid cavalry sword hits before my GLA does because of the extra reach in a thrust. 1hers are not weak at all, polearms are a lot weaker than 2hers over all, because theres "ghost" speed for 2h and extra length due to efficient animations for 2h.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: kinngrimm on April 09, 2011, 04:53:06 pm
All i see are shielders and range, with a few people using 2h and polearm.
simply put ... not true, as their are a lot of ranged out there those go mostly 2h/polearm because of needed space for amunition. Besides those most cavalry players go pure polearm.
Nevertheless there are more shielders out there then say 4 months ago, my guess there are some who were upset by constantly being shot to death. Even as shield guy 40-50% of my deaths is by getting shot by some kind of ranged weapon.

1h actually has the same extra "thrust" range as 2hers
Again not entirely true as far as i can tell, there are weapons with ghost ranges, but not only with 1h's but with 2h's/polearm aswell and there is no single 1h weapon witch has nearly the same length as a medium sized 2h/polearm. So if you backpaddle/spam and the 1h didn't adjust to the tactic change, 2h/polearm wins because of range. If you aren't able to do that, then either you may no yet have the feeling for your range or the shielder has enough athletics and brains to close in and come into his weapon range.

1hers are not weak at all, polearms are a lot weaker than 2hers over all, because theres "ghost" speed for 2h and extra length due to efficient animations for 2h.
First time i hear someone mention ghost speed, ghost range i here often but ghost speed? What is that? Any developers who could tell me about ghost speed?
If you talk about speed and animations, what about the shield animations, one of them isn't actually touched by shield skill. Also lots of 2h's/polearm's stun shields which have lesser weigth which gives u additional time(speed) to finish off the 1h guy.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Thucydides on April 10, 2011, 12:42:58 pm
1. Those people who use bows and crossbows are range, they used polearms/2h as backup weapons. You hardly see pure polearm/2H anymore
2. The animation extends the effective length of a 1her just like a 2her's stab, the arm extends as the thrust is completed.
3. Since you are a shielder, test the speed of a Great Long Axe with a danish greatsword. Count the number of swings you completed in a minute. People have been saying that 2hers have a +5 speed bonus to their weapon.
"shield stun" is a nonissue, since you would have to just take another hit and then you can retaliate. Personally i've never seen "shieldstun" before, since all the heavy weapons have crushthrough or the shield is a huscarl.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: owens on April 10, 2011, 01:10:14 pm
This Forum Post Is nothing more than the excreta of a MAN TROLL
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: owens on April 10, 2011, 01:15:38 pm
But really 1h is easier if people know how to play. Australia's Roman is the best player in the world proven(hes a gook). He uses 1H and no shield. The game is balanced your a choad.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Konrax on April 13, 2011, 03:18:38 pm
In comparison, yes both 1h/shield and 2h are good, but in all honesty the shield user has to make less mistakes then the 2h fighter in order win a fight mainly because of many 2h fighters going pure strength now.

For example it will take me 4-5 swings to kill a pure strength build 2h fighter when I die in 1-2 swings. Compound that with superiour range, speed, and weapon stun after a parry it is indeed quite difficult to be a shield user (not including huscarl shield).

On the flip side people say that the shield is a huge advantage and it is when it comes to survivability at range, but there is a speed rating on the shield and a penalty to the speed of your weapon when you use a shield. Essentially manual blocking is faster, doesn't break, and stuns lighter 1h weapons. On the flip side shield blocks in all directions from the front. Also shields are not forever, they do indeed break fairly easily (I use the elite cavalry shield on foot) with the exception of the high tier shields.

Honestly what I find is that if a 2h enemy blocks my attack, I need to immediately block their next swing, if I block their attack, often their swing speed is so fast I can't even swing back in time before being hit by their next attack. hence the "spam" that many shield users face, and why I use a fast shield.

I don't really care anymore about the speed debate because 2h and polearms are faster then 1h WITH a shield, however the time it takes to attack again after striking a shield is not modified and if anything is shorter than a complete swing. The only thing I would like to see is that perhaps when you strike a shield you need to wait till the time of a completed attack before being able to swing again.

This would make it basically come down to block/swing for both parties. Then the 2h player has the speed and range advantage to step out of combat and re-enter it with an attack instead of just left attack over and over again with a faster weapon.

Some other things I noticed are:

Backpedaling and stab for 2h and polearm is over powered and should work the same as a 1h. It has been quoted by other players that the most difficult attack to do successfully is a 1h stab because it requires the fighter to be moving forward in order to successfully use the attack. The 2h stabs on the other hand can be done moving in any direction.

Next is that 2h and polearm weapons can go through physical obstacles that 1h weapons normally get caught on, like fighting in a tight space and the 1h players weapon hits the wall next to them, and the 2h poleaxe fighters weapon just goes through the wall and hits the other person. Also this includes the weapons ghosting through team mates that would normally result in a TK.

From my observations I have found that 2h and polearm is much less restricted by the physics in this game in comparison to 1h weapons which litterally get caught on everything.

+2 cents
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Vibe on April 13, 2011, 03:40:41 pm
Backpedaling and stab for 2h and polearm is over powered and should work the same as a 1h. It has been quoted by other players that the most difficult attack to do successfully is a 1h stab because it requires the fighter to be moving forward in order to successfully use the attack. The 2h stabs on the other hand can be done moving in any direction.

Next is that 2h and polearm weapons can go through physical obstacles that 1h weapons normally get caught on, like fighting in a tight space and the 1h players weapon hits the wall next to them, and the 2h poleaxe fighters weapon just goes through the wall and hits the other person. Also this includes the weapons ghosting through team mates that would normally result in a TK.

From my observations I have found that 2h and polearm is much less restricted by the physics in this game in comparison to 1h weapons which litterally get caught on everything.

+2 cents

This is just SO wrong.
When you back peddal and stab with 2h and pole you will do minor damage or bounce. Same goes for 1h.
I don't know what 2h/pole you saw passing thru the wall, none of my poles have ever passed thru the wall. On the other hand I find fighting in closed spaces and tight corridors A LOT easier with my 1h. A lot less TK and a lot easier to coordinate when theres more of you attacking one enemy.
And absolutely no wall hiting.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: kongxinga on April 13, 2011, 04:01:28 pm
Agreed with all 3 of you above me.

I still hit up Quake Live quite a bit to get my fix.  But like you guys have made mention to as well, I'm a dinosaur in gamer years (30) as I grew up with all this shit.  I still have longing memories of playing Dukem on T.E.N. for close to two years hardcore (meaning 5-10+ hours a day, sometimes 24+ hours with no sleep at home on dial up and at lans on the weekend) in my youth.

New FPS gamers have no fucking clue about intense twitch gaming.

Speaking of Quake Live.  If any of you old-timers play it as well like I do, hit me up.  I go by Vap0rWare or SnakeEyz (first gaming handle I ever had).  We can set up some matches for lulz.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G45tMacGSDg&feature=related
Map knowledge, aim, movement control, timing, strategy.  All performed in micro second adjustments.  New games still don't compare to the classics.

Speaking of nostalgia:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kT_WGrL3Fs
Same handle (SnakeEyz).  Hit me up.

Pardon the slight off topic. But that was some twitchy stuff I just saw. I thought a lot of you guys were old timers, but you can still twitch like that? Now being beaten by a twitchy 10 year old I can accept, as my reflexes are not what they used to be, but being beaten by a twitchy old timer would be embarrassing. If that is the case I will stick with wargames and "pwn" newbies who don't know how to protect supply depots and megastack their armies to get attrited to death.

Played some tremulous which was based on q3, but those q3 games are super twitch fests in comparison. Too bad trem developers were all alien fanboys with no idea of balance. Trem was a good game to show how k/d meant nothing to skill, as inexperienced human players could rack up 4-1 kd and still lose since the balance was that bad. We had hotshots racking 30-1 kds with mass driver but doing nothing to win the game. Team players are a scarce commodity.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Konrax on April 13, 2011, 04:11:20 pm
This is just SO wrong.
When you back peddal and stab with 2h and pole you will do minor damage or bounce. Same goes for 1h.
I don't know what 2h/pole you saw passing thru the wall, none of my poles have ever passed thru the wall. On the other hand I find fighting in closed spaces and tight corridors A LOT easier with my 1h. A lot less TK and a lot easier to coordinate when theres more of you attacking one enemy.
And absolutely no wall hiting.

I believe it has more to do with the weapon when chambered already being inside the obstacle instead of being in front of it and hitting it on the attack, instead the weapon starts outside and passes through it. I have seen this many times and you can test it your self since I know it happens. The ghost swings through team mates happens a lot with the flamberg and I in all honesty many flamberg players will even admit to it.

The back peddling with 2h stab works much better than it does for 1h if that is the case, but I really never land backwards walking stabs, I almost always need to be moving forward for it to work.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Casimir on April 14, 2011, 03:33:05 am
Why is this thread still going?

I though everyone agreed Finished sucks?
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Xant on April 14, 2011, 10:26:28 am
From my observations I have found that 2h and polearm is much less restricted by the physics in this game in comparison to 1h weapons which litterally get caught on everything.
+2 cents

Not that everything else you write isn't BS, but this is just plainly and clearly wrong. Your observations suck, boy.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Konrax on April 17, 2011, 11:37:08 pm
Not that everything else you write isn't BS, but this is just plainly and clearly wrong. Your observations suck, boy.

I can easily get 5 other people I know to say the same thing, since they brought it up to me in the first place.

Secondly test it yourself and see how BS it is, I see it in siege all the time with Pole Axe weapons ghosting through walls when they are prepared inside the wall already.

Just 2 days ago I found a flamberg in the siege server and swung through 2 team mates and got kills both times and wall ganked once too.

I guess maybe its just my imagination killing my enemies now and not the broken game physics on certain weapons.

Do you offer any proof other then just your constant epeen flexing and your word vs mine?
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Vibe on April 18, 2011, 03:46:37 pm
I can easily get 5 other people I know to say the same thing, since they brought it up to me in the first place.

Secondly test it yourself and see how BS it is, I see it in siege all the time with Pole Axe weapons ghosting through walls when they are prepared inside the wall already.

Just 2 days ago I found a flamberg in the siege server and swung through 2 team mates and got kills both times and wall ganked once too.

I guess maybe its just my imagination killing my enemies now and not the broken game physics on certain weapons.

Do you offer any proof other then just your constant epeen flexing and your word vs mine?

Tried ghosting thru wall with LHB from all different angles and it didn't work. Don't know about poleaxes but it might be just wall fail. As for flameberge ghosting thru teammates - it usually looks like ghosting because you're swinging from behind but it just might be that it was actually the enemy that was hit first (you can hit from behind due to length), then the flameberge passed thru your teammate (once the flameberge hits the enemy the animation won't stop for anything, afaik)... Either way it's very rare and like Xant said, everything else you said is complete BS.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: Konrax on April 18, 2011, 06:13:22 pm
Must be fail walls then because I distinctly remember this happening a few times on specific walls on siege servers.

Flamberg on the other hand might be true if the swing starts high and goes over a team mate reaching the right height to hit your target, but it is difficult to say really since it looks so close.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: chief on April 18, 2011, 06:30:44 pm
My only gripe about 2h weapons is the lack of glancing at close range. Someone with a warcleaver can facehug better than someone with a shortsword. It looks retarded, a guy with a massive sword circle strafing and slashing through the floor into a guys legs.
Title: Re: NERF 2h/polearm, esp. reduce 2h and polearms speed
Post by: v/onMega on April 18, 2011, 06:50:29 pm
Not that everything else you write isn't BS, but this is just plainly and clearly wrong. Your observations suck, boy.

+ 1

And yea, make this game even slower as it is now... O M F G NO.

There is MANY 1H+Board guys playing extremly well - what ofc leaves room for speculation according to your general performance ingame -