cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tristan on December 06, 2011, 12:23:08 am

Title: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Tristan on December 06, 2011, 12:23:08 am
Just had the pleasure of standing on a roof (not an archer myself). There were far more xbows than Archers.

People call it Archer spam. Ranged spam is more correct word.

I don't believe only archers are to be blamed.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Fasader on December 06, 2011, 12:26:14 am
HOW DARE YOU CHALLENGE ME, YOU LOWBORN PIGDOG?
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: karasu on December 06, 2011, 12:30:25 am
Ban fasader from the internets plx, kthxbie
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Fasader on December 06, 2011, 12:38:32 am
29.11. to 5.12.

One handed:         29312 (20.39%)
Two handed:        43827 (30.49%)
Polearms:         40093 (27.89%)
Bow:            13055 (9.08%)
Crossbows:          6636 (4.62%)
Thrown:          2792 (1.94%)
Headshot:          5686 (3.96%)
Horsebump:          2271 (1.58%)
Others:            84 (0.06%)
Teamkills:          4955 (3.45%)
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Polobow on December 06, 2011, 12:39:57 am
Story based on true facts.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: karasu on December 06, 2011, 12:41:00 am
Nerf Others, still to strong. Makes the game unplayable.  :?
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on December 06, 2011, 12:41:48 am
There we have it. Proof that 2h is OP and should be nerfed until the cows come home. IT WON'T MAKE THE COW FAT!
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Polobow on December 06, 2011, 12:43:49 am
29.11. to 5.12.

Others:            84 (0.06%)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Keshian on December 06, 2011, 12:44:31 am
29.11. to 5.12.

One handed:         29312 (20.39%)
Two handed:        43827 (30.49%)
Polearms:         40093 (27.89%)
Bow:            13055 (9.08%)
Crossbows:          6636 (4.62%)
Thrown:          2792 (1.94%)
Headshot:          5686 (3.96%)
Horsebump:          2271 (1.58%)
Others:            84 (0.06%)
Teamkills:          4955 (3.45%)

So more xbowmen than archers, but they have shittier aim and tk more often??  Because these stats prove everything right?
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Paul on December 06, 2011, 12:47:02 am
Fasader mad cause it is known that xbowmen always put 1 bolt into enemy and then finish off in melee. In truth they have 60% kills. That's also why 2h kills are so high. Pure 2h is horrible underpowered or like Thomek rightfully put it, dying out slowly.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Xant on December 06, 2011, 12:47:52 am
2H and polearms need a big nerf now.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Fasader on December 06, 2011, 12:57:14 am
In both cases, crossbows need a buff.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Kafein on December 06, 2011, 01:01:25 am
29.11. to 5.12.

One handed:         29312 (20.39%)
Two handed:        43827 (30.49%)
Polearms:         40093 (27.89%)
Bow:            13055 (9.08%)
Crossbows:          6636 (4.62%)
Thrown:          2792 (1.94%)
Headshot:          5686 (3.96%)
Horsebump:          2271 (1.58%)
Others:            84 (0.06%)
Teamkills:          4955 (3.45%)

What is it ? Number of kills ?

On the subject please. Ranged have all the tactical advantages, counting kills is not getting us anywhere.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on December 06, 2011, 01:03:20 am
Indeed, stats don't lie especially ones undiluted by useful metrics and an abundance of information! Let us use this clearly infallible information to do that which is right, true and correct. Buff my class! I mean 1h!!!
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Paul on December 06, 2011, 01:28:00 am
Throwing needs buff. And horsebump.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Kophka on December 06, 2011, 01:28:38 am
What I'm reading in these stats here is that crossbows have a little over 50% of the kills that archers have in a given time period. That's pretty straightforward. However, reading between the lines, you need to remember that a large part of the crossbow kills come from entirely melee specced characters, that are using crossbows as sidearms, due to the complete lack of skill point requirements.

When you throw that into the mix, you have dangerous archers that are only dangerous (generally :) ) from a distance. Then you have melee characters with crossbows that get to do everything. Change this crap, please?
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Tot. on December 06, 2011, 01:35:02 am
I never understood the point of using frag count statistics to determine whether buffing/nerfing is necessary.

It's obvious that the closer you are to the enemy the more deceisive the fight will be, ie. none of the fighters will [be able to] run away and it will most likely end up with one of them being dead. Archers/ranged engage shitload of targers because they can, wounding, interrupting, dehorsing, though they aren't able to focus on one target to put couple of arrows and finish him off in the thick of battle unless it's a fucking kiting situation.

Kill count isn't all that important in here. Area denial by camping unreachable spots is.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: DrTaco on December 06, 2011, 01:43:08 am
Throwing was right where I thought it would be. At about 1%...
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: cmp on December 06, 2011, 01:50:04 am
I never understood the point of using frag count statistics to determine whether buffing/nerfing is necessary.

I never understood why people think we use frag count statistics to determine whether buffing/nerfing is necessary.

If you look at the OP, he asked about quantity, nothing about buffing/nerfing here.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Xant on December 06, 2011, 02:00:53 am
I never understood why people think we use frag count statistics to determine whether buffing/nerfing is necessary.

If you look at the OP, he asked about quantity, nothing about buffing/nerfing here.

USA_CMP_THE_GODFATHER has spoken.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Casimir on December 06, 2011, 02:06:50 am
Well i think its because you see far more archers taking repeated shots at you from their position while xbowmen tend to take on a more sniper one hit kill style.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Dach on December 06, 2011, 02:24:57 am
Hmm.. that's because archer can't one shot anything except peasant... so expect more than one shot coming for you!  :lol:
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Aseldo on December 06, 2011, 02:28:52 am
See here's the problem, a lot of crossbow people are using 2 handers as well, a luxury they can have. 90% of archers get their kills almost exclusively from archery. Crossbow men get probably more like 50%-60% of their kills from their crossbow and the rest from a stronger side arm. If crossbows got buffed and actually had a skill similar to PD for them to upgrade in order to use crossbows and be stronger but also making stronger sidearms less viable(powerful polearms, 2handers, shield and sword ect.), then you would see crossbow kills go up and 2 hander kills go down.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Greziz on December 06, 2011, 02:53:35 am
Crossbow is a dieing class it is incredibly expensive to use it as a sidearm nowadays so most melee don't take a crossbow with owpf I only see a couple of dedicated hybrid xbowmen who have been around since the dawn of crpg still using em anymore and I am pretty sure I am the only rich retard who ever bothers bringing in my sidearm xbow and only to hunt horses.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Dehitay on December 06, 2011, 02:54:41 am
If crossbows got buffed and actually had a skill similar to PD for them to upgrade in order to use crossbows and be stronger but also making stronger sidearms less viable(powerful polearms, 2handers, shield and sword ect.), then you would see crossbow kills go up and 2 hander kills go down.
It sounds like you're suggesting a buff to crossbows would be good, but I'm not sure. While it's true that with a buff, crossbow kills would go up and melee kills wound go down by about the same number of kills, you would also have an abundance of overpowered melee/crossbow hybrids.

BTW, what category do gravity kills counts as? 84 seems too small a number for deaths by gravity.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Tot. on December 06, 2011, 02:57:27 am
I never understood why people think we use frag count statistics to determine whether buffing/nerfing is necessary.

If you look at the OP, he asked about quantity, nothing about buffing/nerfing here.

Well, this for example:

(click to show/hide)

Or at least some people with their name beginning with 'F' often use these stats as an argument for/against suggestions.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Aseldo on December 06, 2011, 03:01:54 am
It sounds like you're suggesting a buff to crossbows would be good, but I'm not sure. While it's true that with a buff, crossbow kills would go up and melee kills wound go down by about the same number of kills, you would also have an abundance of overpowered melee/crossbow hybrids.

BTW, what category do gravity kills counts as? 84 seems too small a number for deaths by gravity.

I was suggesting a buff to people that when crossbow but at the expense that they didn't have such a selection of hybrid builds like archers.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Jambi on December 06, 2011, 03:02:30 am
29.11. to 5.12.

One handed:         29312 (20.39%)
Two handed:        43827 (30.49%)
Polearms:         40093 (27.89%)
Bow:            13055 (9.08%)
Crossbows:          6636 (4.62%)
Thrown:          2792 (1.94%)
Headshot:          5686 (3.96%)
Horsebump:          2271 (1.58%)
Others:            84 (0.06%)
Teamkills:          4955 (3.45%)

I hope you do realize, that unlike archers, xbowers have the ability to be effective in melee right? So count some melee kills for xbowers too. ktybai

Think you devs should play more, instead of looking at some numbers.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Thomek on December 06, 2011, 03:02:50 am
Fasader mad cause it is known that xbowmen always put 1 bolt into enemy and then finish off in melee. In truth they have 60% kills. That's also why 2h kills are so high. Pure 2h is horrible underpowered or like Thomek rightfully put it, dying out slowly.

lol.. I said Ninjas were dying out :) not 2h.

IDK why but zero leet archers were on tonight. Also, I noticed u have 17 ping paul. Of course any fast weapon will be spammy with that ping and that build..  :rolleyes:  Even you fell for a simple kinngrimm (10ping) left slash, so there you have it. I do understand your pov.

Last night was KMC, Nebun, Radh, Tybox, Pawlo and one more grey I can't remember on at the same time. Poland vs Russia Archery contest. All of them have full bow and arrow looms and do know how to shoot. I seemed to die from ranged every single round...

Also, back to OP. Yes too many xbows (because they CAN and because peeps want to counter Archers). Also xbowcav is a joke pls remove. Also, cav needs nerf because their retarded lances do too much damage as in 1 shotting people. Which is simply not fun for anyone.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: robert_namo on December 06, 2011, 03:47:05 am
Archers kill me in melee more often than a crossbowman. I get 2-3 hit by archers with a mace/1h weapons and crossbowmans take the same amount of hits to kill me.
Archers and crossbowman use the same tactic: shoot once, take out melee weapon.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Gurnisson on December 06, 2011, 03:49:31 am
Also xbowcav is a joke pls remove.

Lies
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Aseldo on December 06, 2011, 05:45:35 am
Archers kill me in melee more often than a crossbowman. I get 2-3 hit by archers with a mace/1h weapons and crossbowmans take the same amount of hits to kill me.
Archers and crossbowman use the same tactic: shoot once, take out melee weapon.

I see a lot more crossbow men being shielders, 2 handers or even polearms peeps than archers. Maybe an archer using a horn bow with a mace but that's about the best it gets.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: rufio on December 06, 2011, 06:10:08 am
lol.. I said Ninjas were dying out :) not 2h.

IDK why but zero leet archers were on tonight. Also, I noticed u have 17 ping paul. Of course any fast weapon will be spammy with that ping and that build..  :rolleyes:  Even you fell for a simple kinngrimm (10ping) left slash, so there you have it. I do understand your pov.

Last night was KMC, Nebun, Radh, Tybox, Pawlo and one more grey I can't remember on at the same time. Poland vs Russia Archery contest. All of them have full bow and arrow looms and do know how to shoot. I seemed to die from ranged every single round...

Also, back to OP. Yes too many xbows (because they CAN and because peeps want to counter Archers). Also xbowcav is a joke pls remove. Also, cav needs nerf because their retarded lances do too much damage as in 1 shotting people. Which is simply not fun for anyone.

agreed on ranged part, idc about xbows tbh if they miss atleast i have enough time to move in on them, 1 slot mace is a prob thow, good damage good speed and knockdown, and knockdown 1 in each 3 hits it seems. ur prob with cav is like ur prob with everything thomek u have no head and leg armor, so ofc u will be oneshot :P
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Duke on December 06, 2011, 10:28:36 am
Throwing needs buff. And horsebump.

......... what if we could throw horses? :shock:
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Kafein on December 06, 2011, 10:39:32 am
29.11. to 5.12.

One handed:         29312 (20.39%)
Two handed:        43827 (30.49%)
Polearms:         40093 (27.89%)
Bow:            13055 (9.08%)
Crossbows:          6636 (4.62%)
Thrown:          2792 (1.94%)
Headshot:          5686 (3.96%)
Horsebump:          2271 (1.58%)
Others:            84 (0.06%)
Teamkills:          4955 (3.45%)


Spartakick needs a buff.


Thomek, I hope you did think about what is cav like when you don't kill anything, even though you had to run into a nightmare just to hit something. Cav are pretty much high speed, super low agility ninjas... Just suppose that as a ninja you were able to hit only once, and had to flee immediately after. Then suppose you'd not kill anything with that only hit you are allowed to do. Yes, that's what would cav be like with your suggestion.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: gazda on December 06, 2011, 10:57:13 am
CONCLUSION NERF XBOWS
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Paul on December 06, 2011, 11:03:29 am
Thomek lobbying too much again. Time to remove katana.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Matey on December 06, 2011, 11:09:09 am
the reason everyone hates archers...
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Jacko on December 06, 2011, 11:20:45 am
Cavalry>Xbows>Archers>Infantry

Wat
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Joker86 on December 06, 2011, 11:36:18 am
I never understood why people think we use frag count statistics to determine whether buffing/nerfing is necessary.

I can reassure you, I never thought you used frag count statistics to determine balancing.

I always thought you didn't use anything and did it by instinct. Numbers are boring.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Camaris on December 06, 2011, 11:42:56 am
most archers and xbows have a 2h as sidearm (mace).
so in comparsion to other stats 2h lost a good amount if i remember correct.

to the topic: sure in the end its regardless if there are 20 bows or x-bows on the roof.
the point is that they are on that fucking roof.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Nemeth on December 06, 2011, 11:46:39 am
Archers and crossbowman use the same tactic: shoot once, take out melee weapon.

Actually, while crossbowmen do use that tactic, only archers with balls do the same. Unfortunately, ball-less archers are the common folk around, so you can see them employing the run-like-a-chicken tactic far more often.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Casimir on December 06, 2011, 11:50:02 am
Where the fuck have you been nemeth?
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Gheritarish le Loki on December 06, 2011, 11:55:31 am
Actually, while crossbowmen do use that tactic, only archers with balls do the same. Unfortunately, ball-less archers are the common folk around, so you can see them employing the run-like-a-chicken tactic far more often.
Xbowmen don't need to put point in PD, they have more skill point to put in melee fighting skill like PS/Shield.

We can call archers ball-less but in fact they are skillpoint-less for sure.

Xbow has always been favored since the begining of cRPG, dunnon why but it's the only thing that is balanced with realism (anybody can shoot with a xbow, peasant can, there is no need of training, etc = ingame : no need ofspecial skill except STR to use a xbow).
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Nemeth on December 06, 2011, 12:06:07 pm
Where the fuck have you been nemeth?

I've been honning my xbow skills, so I can cause more rage than ever before.

Xbowmen don't need to put point in PD, they have more skill point to put in melee fighting skill like PS/Shield.

I've heard that excuse a lot, yet I have seen plenty of effective archers, that actually thought about their build and invested some points into melee (DoG_Inhumane comes to mind first).
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: cmp on December 06, 2011, 12:07:33 pm
I can reassure you, I never thought you used frag count statistics to determine balancing.

I always thought you didn't use anything and did it by instinct. Numbers are boring.

Which is equally bullshit. We got the formula balancer, the realism balancer, the experience balancer, and batman.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: justme on December 06, 2011, 12:09:33 pm
and you keep failing...
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Gheritarish le Loki on December 06, 2011, 12:21:13 pm
and you keep failing...

this is Batman fault...


@Nemeth : yes sure it's possible, still they have less skill points, it's not really an excuse, more a mathematical fact.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Braeden on December 06, 2011, 12:47:09 pm
One handed:         29312 (20.39%)
Two handed:        43827 (30.49%)
Polearms:         40093 (27.89%)
Bow:            13055 (9.08%)
Crossbows:          6636 (4.62%)
Thrown:          2792 (1.94%)
Headshot:          5686 (3.96%)
Horsebump:          2271 (1.58%)
Others:            84 (0.06%)
Teamkills:          4955 (3.45%)

:(
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: cmp on December 06, 2011, 12:48:22 pm
and you keep failing...

And you keep playing...
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Leshma on December 06, 2011, 12:51:40 pm
And you keep playing...

Since you guys are always eager to show kill statistics when you need to prove a point, how about you post average player count per day on all servers for last 30 days and compare it with same stats from year before (or six months before)?
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Prpavi on December 06, 2011, 12:58:09 pm
Since you guys are always eager to show kill statistics when you need to prove a point, how about you post average player count per day on all servers for last 30 days and compare it with same stats from year before (or six months before)?

How dare u!
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Jacko on December 06, 2011, 01:00:16 pm
Out of curiosity; how would that prove (or not prove) archers getting framed?
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Spleen on December 06, 2011, 02:55:21 pm
Out of curiosity; how would that prove (or not prove) archers getting framed?

You dont question the Leshma!



Actually, you should do that. It'll be much more fun.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: dynamike on December 06, 2011, 03:09:32 pm
29.11. to 5.12.

One handed:         29312 (20.39%)
Two handed:        43827 (30.49%)
Polearms:         40093 (27.89%)
Bow:            13055 (9.08%)
Crossbows:          6636 (4.62%)
Thrown:          2792 (1.94%)
Headshot:          5686 (3.96%)
Horsebump:          2271 (1.58%)
Others:            84 (0.06%)
Teamkills Huey Newton:          4955 (3.45%)

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Christo on December 06, 2011, 03:24:11 pm
Teamkills:          4955 (3.45%)

LOL.

Nerf teamkills.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Dexxtaa on December 06, 2011, 03:26:56 pm
Fuck'em.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on December 06, 2011, 03:27:46 pm
nerf horses
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: OttomanSniper on December 06, 2011, 03:32:37 pm
29.11. to 5.12.

One handed:         29312 (20.39%)
Two handed:        43827 (30.49%)
Polearms:         40093 (27.89%)
Bow:            13055 (9.08%)
Crossbows:          6636 (4.62%)
Thrown:          2792 (1.94%)
Headshot:          5686 (3.96%)
Horsebump:          2271 (1.58%)
Others:            84 (0.06%)
Teamkills:          4955 (3.45%)

2 Handers (crying community) need nerf. %30......
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Polobow on December 06, 2011, 03:55:34 pm
The only possibility i can think up with by 'others' is mountless horses bumpkilling people.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Gheritarish le Loki on December 06, 2011, 04:09:24 pm
The only possibility i can think up with by 'others' is mountless horses bumpkilling people.

And falls
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: IG_Saint on December 06, 2011, 04:39:03 pm
Falls use the headshot icon, mountless horses use the horse bump icon. "Others" are probably just kicks and punches.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Gravoth_iii on December 06, 2011, 06:23:23 pm
Falls use the headshot icon, mountless horses use the horse bump icon. "Others" are probably just kicks and punches.


Nerf new overhead punch, that shit has crazy reach.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Idzo on December 06, 2011, 06:37:07 pm
http://www.i18nguy.com/l10n/shoes-anatomy.html

Djavo is banned so he sends his regards! Enjoy!
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Noctivagant on December 06, 2011, 06:41:45 pm
In both cases, crossbows need a buff.

Enable railguns
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Meow on December 06, 2011, 07:58:44 pm
People really have to learn that if you tell us the purpose of your post, you will get trolled :mrgreen:

Also no, it's kinda impossible to get actually banned from the mod by failing on the forums.

Aww it got ninja removed :(
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Xant on December 06, 2011, 08:02:32 pm
It's okay Meow, just take your medicine and all will be clear again.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Nasturtium on December 06, 2011, 08:45:32 pm
Sometimes on the battle server when noone is looking i pike someone in the back and when they turn around I point to a rooftop and tell them an archer just shot them in the back. (/sneaky eyes)
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 06, 2011, 08:47:14 pm
http://www.i18nguy.com/l10n/shoes-anatomy.html

Djavo is banned so he sends his regards! Enjoy!

My Shoesize isnt even on it lol(50 EU).

Too bad this chart isnt real, i could make millions with porn.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on December 06, 2011, 09:58:23 pm
how about you post average player count per day on all servers for last 30 days and compare it with same stats from year before (or six months before)?

And prove that the major released games caused a hit in player count?
Besides, the Fallen are already starting to get our people back.

I would be more interested in data a month or two from now after the latest game craze is dead.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Renten on December 06, 2011, 10:54:54 pm
I've started using a crossbow for the specific point of taking out those pesky archers standing on the roof or trying to kite me for a year. I'll never be able to 1-shot anyone who isn't a peasant unless I get rid of my main weapon/shield, and the reload takes some serious time when you're forced to stand still. Throwing just isn't as viable since it takes points and can be quite inaccurate. It takes 3 slots to use a heavy crossbow for the good damage. Should just pick an arbalest and 1 shot people along with a mace, but that sounds just like an archer really.

With all the archer rant going on it was inevitable for people to go anti-archer, and then realize the ranged weapon they brought along is useful in more situations.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Gomer on December 07, 2011, 06:41:18 am
In both cases, crossbows need a buff.
I swear to god.... Stop... Stop changing things. The rop in population is your sudden impulses to change everything. You can't perfectly balance everything. STOP The way the game was befor the current patch was fine. But with archer nerf it's alright. LEAVE IT THE FUCK ALONE. Please please man. NO
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Gomer on December 07, 2011, 06:42:46 am
And prove that the major released games caused a hit in player count?
Besides, the Fallen are already starting to get our people back.

I would be more interested in data a month or two from now after the latest game craze is dead.
^This but change it to Hospitaller.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Xant on December 07, 2011, 02:09:53 pm
I swear to god.... Stop... Stop changing things. The rop in population is your sudden impulses to change everything. You can't perfectly balance everything. STOP The way the game was befor the current patch was fine. But with archer nerf it's alright. LEAVE IT THE FUCK ALONE. Please please man. NO

I'm confused, I can't tell if you're roleplaying a stupid red-neck or if you really are one.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Fartface on December 07, 2011, 05:26:57 pm
http://www.i18nguy.com/l10n/shoes-anatomy.html

Djavo is banned so he sends his regards! Enjoy!
Trying to figure this out ...
... Made my brains cry,
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Turboflex on December 07, 2011, 05:46:53 pm
pls pls pls remove ladders from battle asap!!
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 07, 2011, 06:29:45 pm
Or allow torches to burn down buildings :)

I still think people crying about classes being overpowered are ridiculous.  Every class has strengths and weaknesses, everything can be countered.  I liked some of the nerfs, but I think they go too far.  Like nerfing long spears and pikes by making them 2 slots and can't be sheathed was a good move, reducing lance radius from horseback was okay too (but they should have made it so you can turn your hand over and stab down in front or back of the horse).  Making the long spears/pikes 3 slots has now made it easier for horsemen (notice how I didn't use the word "overpowered"). 

Are you guys planning on constantly trying to balance things in every patch?  Certain classes should have distinct advantages, why would you punish people for using a class in the way it's intended?  Don't like range spam?  Have your own ranged units keep them occupied.  Or send a shield wall (with 2h's and polearms behind) to take them out.  It's like beating a dead horse around here...every class can be countered (usually by more than one class).
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Teeth on December 07, 2011, 10:14:15 pm
Have your own ranged units keep them occupied.  Or send a shield wall (with 2h's and polearms behind) to take them out.
Oh my god....This aint fuckin total war. If I am a 2h, I don't have anything to expect from my fellow ranged. They wont shoot the guys that are making the 2h's get raped. Just as I wont protect archers.

You aren't playing with controllable teammates, they are a bunch of morons trying to get kills.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Kophka on December 07, 2011, 10:16:29 pm
Oh my god....This aint fuckin total war. If I am a 2h, I don't have anything to expect from my fellow ranged. They wont shoot the guys that are making the 2h's get raped. Just as I wont protect archers.

You aren't playing with controllable teammates, they are a bunch of morons trying to get kills.

This is possibly the most honest thing I have ever heard in regards to crpg. I can't say I like the truth, but I have to agree with you that it is, indeed, the truth. I'm going to go be sad now. Tacticians + cRPG = water and oil.  :cry:
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: LastKaze on December 07, 2011, 11:42:38 pm
From a dedicated xbowman stand point, i believe that xbow and archery is pretty balanced out. Though xbows do more damage, bows out shoot an xbowman any day. Xbows only have 1 shot before they have to spend like 10 seconds to reload their arbalest, while it takes an archer like 5 seconds to shoot their arrow. Archery and xbow is balanced, even though you can't melee in archery, you can always outrun someone with an xbow. Also archers can shoot farther away than xbows. To me the reason there is xbow is to take out people who wear heavy armor.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Tzar on December 07, 2011, 11:43:32 pm
Remove ladders
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Darkoveride on December 08, 2011, 05:05:53 pm
Buff cav  :lol:
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Tristan on December 08, 2011, 06:13:50 pm
While fun, the argument of religion is a two-egged sword. It might as well be said that:

Quote
"The path of righteous balance is beset on all sides, by the ineqieties of whiners and the tyranny of trolls. Blessed is he who, in the name of archery and good will, shephards the players through a forum of rage.
For he is truly his borther's keeper and the finder of future fun.
And I will remove these idiotes with great vengeance and furious anger. Those who attempt to poison and destroy cRPG.
And you will know that balance will be achieved, when I lay my vengeance upon thee"
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 08, 2011, 10:42:57 pm
Oh my god....This aint fuckin total war. If I am a 2h, I don't have anything to expect from my fellow ranged. They wont shoot the guys that are making the 2h's get raped. Just as I wont protect archers.

You aren't playing with controllable teammates, they are a bunch of morons trying to get kills.

That's not true.  Not all, but some pubbers play in the team aspect. 

Maybe if there were more open field battles on the public servers it would force people to use teamwork more often (instead of using buildings for cover against ranged and cavalry).

If I'm shielding I'm almost always with another melee person to try and tag team people.  Or I might be trying to protect archers.  If I'm on cav I usually try to help our infantry and if I see one of our guys getting cut off or separated (or attacked because they're slow getting out of spawn) I usually do my best to help them.  I do whatever I can to keep my multiplier going up (or staying up).
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on December 08, 2011, 10:50:55 pm
Strange, the unskilled NA servers seem to have decent teamwork actually, and tams reacting to the others and swapping for proper equipment between rounds.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Sergee on December 08, 2011, 10:58:26 pm
its pronounced FA.G.CHERS
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on December 09, 2011, 02:40:39 am
There we have it. Proof that 2h is OP and should be nerfed until the cows come home. IT WON'T MAKE THE COW FAT!

ofc 2h/polearms have more kills... they're made for that. 1h is made to pair with a (ranged immunity/autoblocking multiple attacks) shield in left hand...

1h/shield for defence, 2h/polearm for attack... you know...

1h hammers 2-3 hits me like a danish... but they also knockdown and leave the left hand free to accomodate a huscarl/steel shield/heater..

Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: urface on December 10, 2011, 06:59:22 pm
Obviously since xbows arent at the top of the stats board means that we should have a accuracy buff. I suggest 95 accuracy for my mw arb.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Winterly on December 10, 2011, 07:01:31 pm
its pronounced FA.G.CHERS

ew....its serge...

and NA cooperation is often times very one-sided...not much brain activity going on if you ask me.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: BADPLAYERold on December 10, 2011, 07:15:02 pm
That's not true.  Not all, but some pubbers play in the team aspect. 

Maybe if there were more open field battles on the public servers it would force people to use teamwork more often (instead of using buildings for cover against ranged and cavalry).


All teamwork between pubbies boils down to camping a hill/other defensible position with pikes and ranged. And attacking that (or for me, even being on the same team as the people doing that) is one of the least fun things in this game, so no please don't add in more random plains maps because that is all that happens after the first couple rounds.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Tanken on December 10, 2011, 07:24:07 pm
I love Archery, and I know you all love me being an archer :D
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Joker86 on December 11, 2011, 04:28:54 pm
All teamwork between pubbies boils down to camping a hill/other defensible position with pikes and ranged. And attacking that (or for me, even being on the same team as the people doing that) is one of the least fun things in this game, so no please don't add in more random plains maps because that is all that happens after the first couple rounds.

So what is the alternative? Everyone for himself, go and get some kills? So the team with the better duellists wins? Then why go battle server, if you can go on the duel server?

One important aspect of a battle is the tactic used, and to me it is very interesting to see how tactics can beat individual player skill. The game gets more than one aspect.

If the enemy is using the most basic tactic of sticking together and waiting, then you have to invent something to break up the formation. First condition of course is, that if the entire enemy team is listening to a plan, you team will do the same.

And in my eyes using your brain should always be more rewarding than using your reflexes. That's why I think tactics should always beat skill.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: BADPLAYERold on December 11, 2011, 05:51:20 pm


Fun =/= Tactics

I play this game for fun, not to wait around for 5 minutes with each team camping before being able to actually fight. If you want actual tactics, play Strategus Battles.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: BlueKnight on December 11, 2011, 06:40:03 pm
I hope you do realize, that unlike archers, xbowers have the ability to be effective in melee right? So count some melee kills for xbowers too. ktybai

Think you devs should play more, instead of looking at some numbers.

Taking just 1 bag of arrows won't hurt you and you will be able to take langes messer which is really dangerous weapon in proper hands. But archers prefer to take more arrows and just fleeeeeeeeee.... and then turn around and shoot ...
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on December 11, 2011, 07:44:48 pm
Taking just 1 bag of arrows won't hurt you and you will be able to take langes messer which is really dangerous weapon in proper hands.

Two bags of arrows are even more dangerous in proper hands for a dedicated build spending most or all points on PD and WM. One bag instead of two would not allow me to freely and aggressively hunt horses and high priority targets like I do now.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: To Kill A Dead Horse on December 11, 2011, 08:14:06 pm
It's like beating a dead horse around here...

Hey now, just because i'm new to this game.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on December 12, 2011, 12:17:51 am
29.11. to 5.12.

One handed:         29312 (20.39%)
Two handed:        43827 (30.49%)
Polearms:         40093 (27.89%)
Bow:            13055 (9.08%)
Crossbows:          6636 (4.62%)
Thrown:          2792 (1.94%)
Headshot:          5686 (3.96%)
Horsebump:          2271 (1.58%)
Others:            84 (0.06%)
Teamkills:          4955 (3.45%)

Just because archers kill more or deal more damage or whatever, doesn't mean there are more archers. Go to a battleserver at the moment, usually you have almost twice as many guys using a crossbow than a normal bow. Everyone can shoot around with a crossbow, thing is most of them do not have skill.

I think you have more guys going full archer and little going full crossbow, but still there are many many hybrids with crossbows and I think the number of guys using a crossbow is still higher of those being full archers.
But, full archers have the skill, because shooting is most of what they do and they have the looms etc etc, thus they deal more damage ;)
Most crossbowguys are noobs, you can always say when they will shoot when you have a rangedduel with them. Whereas they always miss you get the chance to kill them one by one. ---> lots of crossbowguys, but more damage done by archers, because we have skill and will rule da world once  8-)
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Gomer on December 12, 2011, 12:43:02 am
Just because archers kill more or deal more damage or whatever, doesn't mean there are more archers. Go to a battleserver at the moment, usually you have almost twice as many guys using a crossbow than a normal bow. Everyone can shoot around with a crossbow, thing is most of them do not have skill.

I think you have more guys going full archer and little going full crossbow, but still there are many many hybrids with crossbows and I think the number of guys using a crossbow is still higher of those being full archers.
But, full archers have the skill, because shooting is most of what they do and they have the looms etc etc, thus they deal more damage ;)
Most crossbowguys are noobs, you can always say when they will shoot when you have a rangedduel with them. Whereas they always miss you get the chance to kill them one by one. ---> lots of crossbowguys, but more damage done by archers, because we have skill and will rule da world once  8-)
I say the reason archers do more damage is that we are constantly attacking. We are always hitting horses we are always shooting. While as a foot solider will on hit say 10 times a round and there is a large amount of time walking and maneuvering between those hits. I would also like to add that archers should be better then crossbow wielding monkeys that have  access to melee combat aswell. Committed Crossbowmen when they are skilled are evenly matched. Though they are alot more expensive and therefor you don't see many of them.

I would also like to say the population of committed archers has dropped. I would say this nerf on archer is far enough. It did its job and reduced are population and required us to put more points in strength and thus reduced are speed. I would say though the Nerf on archery has been a giant boost on CAV. I would suggest Nerfing Horses Health to match the nerf in Bow and Arrow DMG.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Fasader on December 12, 2011, 01:12:18 am
The only possibility i can think up with by 'others' is mountless horses bumpkilling people.
nah, that's still horsebump.
Others is unarmed, that is punches and kicks. (except for kicking someone down a wall, that's under headshot)
Suicides don't get counted in the script.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Gomer on December 12, 2011, 01:19:44 am
nah, that's still horsebump.
Others is unarmed, that is punches and kicks. (except for kicking someone down a wall, that's under headshot)
Suicides don't get counted in the script.
Do TK's count positive? If so that's why archers have the most Kills :P Damn Equip screen....
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Adalwulf on December 12, 2011, 02:50:29 am
Two bags of arrows are even more dangerous in proper hands for a dedicated build spending most or all points on PD and WM. One bag instead of two would not allow me to freely and aggressively hunt horses and high priority targets like I do now.

wrong! MW horn with 3 MW tartars are deeeeadly.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on December 12, 2011, 10:16:01 am
Do TK's count positive? If so that's why archers have the most Kills :P Damn Equip screen....

no.. damn kill counter... when there are 5 team mates bashing a lonely plate tank and the archer really have the need to shoot him also often killing the other 5 mates and start running away when he realize he just saved that plate enemy's life.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: BlueKnight on December 12, 2011, 08:24:48 pm
Two bags of arrows are even more dangerous in proper hands for a dedicated build spending most or all points on PD and WM. One bag instead of two would not allow me to freely and aggressively hunt horses and high priority targets like I do now.

It's all about adjusting equipment.
If you expect that you will have some kind of protection given to you from your team, take 2 bags. If your melee teammates died you wouldn't do very much in melee anyway. Wpf and PS are somehow important factors.

If you want to be away from your teammates, or your teammates are horsemen and don't want to protect you, then take a good sidearm to at least make the enemy tired. 1 bag will be enough then.

You can always try to find some arrows everywhere, or sidearm, so that you can adjust your eq. in the middle of the battle.
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: OttomanSniper on December 12, 2011, 08:30:43 pm
29.11. to 5.12.

One handed:         29312 (20.39%)
Two handed:        43827 (30.49%)
Polearms:         40093 (27.89%)
Bow:            13055 (9.08%)
Crossbows:          6636 (4.62%)
Thrown:          2792 (1.94%)
Headshot:          5686 (3.96%)
Horsebump:          2271 (1.58%)
Others:            84 (0.06%)
Teamkills:          4955 (3.45%)

Ranged Total : 15.64%
Melee Total : 78.67%

Pls buff archery...
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: Tzar on December 12, 2011, 08:52:32 pm

Pls buff archery...

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Tears of destiny finally brown nosed the entire dev team on irrc to get on the dev team seen here posing in her lordly tranny suit with MW ak 47
Title: Re: Are Archers getting framed?
Post by: MadeForFighting on December 13, 2011, 02:46:28 pm
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