cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Joker86 on January 31, 2011, 01:42:51 pm

Title: Fewer players now?
Post by: Joker86 on January 31, 2011, 01:42:51 pm
Hi there!

I am working the second half of the day, so I can only play after midnight, in most cases I play from 2 to 4 a.m. (MET), and at that time there are about 50-60 players online on EU1 or EU4. Wasn't this used to be more, even at that time?

When is the peak of player population reched? 8 p.m.?
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Punisher on January 31, 2011, 01:49:33 pm
There are less players at all times these days, those times when eu1 and eu2 were almost always full or after eu4 appeared it had 160+ players on and EU1 was still full are long gone, now there are rarely more than 100 players on EU1 (even between 18:00-22:00 GMT, that should be the peak hours), <50 on EU2 and 50-60 on a siege server (EU5 or 6). I guess many people are waiting for a fresh strategus start to give them a purpose for the crpg grind, others have exams and others have GTX because of the new patch (DaveUKR).
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Babelfish on January 31, 2011, 02:01:32 pm
Also near christmas -> january holiday season and people could play more, now that the semester has started up again, its common sense that people are going to be less active :)

Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Bonze on January 31, 2011, 02:22:11 pm
There are less players at all times these days, those times when eu1 and eu2 were almost always full or after eu4 appeared it had 160+ players on and EU1 was still full are long gone, now there are rarely more than 100 players on EU1 (even between 18:00-22:00 GMT, that should be the peak hours), <50 on EU2 and 50-60 on a siege server (EU5 or 6). I guess many people are waiting for a fresh strategus start to give them a purpose for the crpg grind, others have exams and others have GTX because of the new patch (DaveUKR).

Hail comrade  Donkey and his epic fail patch.  Combat and Grinding balance is worser  than ever before. Donkeys new target group are trash kids, hardcore fanboys and stacking clan gankers . I think this At fifteen, I had the will to  learn ; at thirty, I could stand ; at forty, I had no  doubts ; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding ;  at sixty, my ears were opened ; at seventy, I could  do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the  square. when the summer begins.

I really  miss the  (full) 160 player server with adult admins.

 R.I.P. Pecores Server  :rolleyes:


Also near christmas -> january holiday season and people could play more, now that the semester has started up again, its common sense that people are going to be less active :)

Dream on ...
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Xant on January 31, 2011, 02:26:21 pm
Hail comrade  Donkey and his epic fail patch.  Combat and Grinding balance is worser  than ever before. Donkeys new target group are trash kids, hardcore fanboys and stacking clan gankers . I think this At fifteen, I had the will to  learn ; at thirty, I could stand ; at forty, I had no  doubts ; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding ;  at sixty, my ears were opened ; at seventy, I could  do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the  square. when the summer begins.

I really  miss the  (full) 160 player server with adult admins.

 R.I.P. Pecores Server  :rolleyes:

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Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Krakatit on January 31, 2011, 02:29:34 pm
There are not full server because players started to play on siege servers too. Whole player base is distributed among all servers because its better to play with less players than full server now.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Bonze on January 31, 2011, 02:32:22 pm
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Its your RL picture?  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Oberyn on January 31, 2011, 02:34:05 pm

"But why should I have the same goal? There is no reason whatsoever for me to try and gather the largest playerbase possible. If it is a byproduct of me having fun while playing, that's great. But if I actually have to decide between maintaining a large playerbase or creating a fun game, well - I am sorry, I want to do something that I have fun doing. I am aware that is selfish, but when I wash a car, it's mine, not my neighbours'. (Not that I could afford one :D)"

We don't want your dirty, grinding unwashed masses. If Bonze is a representative of the tards not playing anymore, then all I can say is fuck yeah!
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on January 31, 2011, 02:35:23 pm
Hail comrade  Donkey and his epic fail patch.  Combat and Grinding balance is worser  than ever before. Donkeys new target group are trash kids, hardcore fanboys and stacking clan gankers . I think this At fifteen, I had the will to  learn ; at thirty, I could stand ; at forty, I had no  doubts ; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding ;  at sixty, my ears were opened ; at seventy, I could  do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the  square. when the summer begins.

It'll be dead roughly 11 months from now, actually. AND SO ARE WE ALL!!!

Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Punisher on January 31, 2011, 02:42:47 pm
It'll be dead roughly 11 months from now, actually. AND SO ARE WE ALL!!!

2012 is old news Bane, now the 2013 solar storms are the shit, with no electricity we will be sent back to medieval ages so you will get to play cRPG IRL, how cool is that?
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Everkistus on January 31, 2011, 02:49:25 pm
Its your RL picture?  :mrgreen:
Yeah he has an eagle stuck to his hair, horrible fate.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on January 31, 2011, 02:59:41 pm
2012 is old news Bane, now the 2013 solar storms are the shit, with no electricity we will be sent back to medieval ages so you will get to play cRPG IRL, how cool is that?

Wat? So even if those prophecies are wrong, I've got to worry about solar storms now? This is why I don't watch the news...
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Xant on January 31, 2011, 03:14:17 pm
Yes, you have to worry about there maybe being a solar storm in 2013! It's horrible, its effects could even *Gasp* be worse than an ash cloud's. But hey, don't worry, because it'd last shorter than  an ash cloud.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Dexxtaa on January 31, 2011, 03:17:47 pm
There certainly is less of a population on the NA servers, too. It's not the exams here, I don't think.

The most recent patch has a hailstorm of throwing going around, so I reckon that might be a contributing factor as to why new people aren't sticking around long :(

We're halfway into the college semester, so it doesn't make sense for there to be a low player count, really.

We *are* getting a larger than usual late night community though :3 That's always something nice
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: mammoni on January 31, 2011, 03:31:37 pm
Don't forget that there was a steam sale during the holidays / right before the patch. Lots of new players just giving it a try, and many leaving after some days, that's inevitable.

Player base looks stable to me.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on January 31, 2011, 03:41:03 pm
Yes, you have to worry about there maybe being a solar storm in 2013! It's horrible, its effects could even *Gasp* be worse than an ash cloud's. But hey, don't worry, because it'd last shorter than  an ash cloud.

But would it be international? If it's just Iceland getting scorched I can live with it. Also, 2013 is my holiday year, where I will fly to every country in the world (not visiting, just to the airports then on to another airport - I call it Airport Tour Twenty Thirteen, which is what it will say on the T-Shirt), so I am slightly concerned about this news, and don't appreciate your sarcastic tone!

Don't forget that there was a steam sale during the holidays / right before the patch. Lots of new players just giving it a try, and many leaving after some days, that's inevitable.

Player base looks stable to me.

How the hell would you know?  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: mammoni on January 31, 2011, 03:43:39 pm
common sense, aight?
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Punisher on January 31, 2011, 03:45:40 pm
But would it be international? If it's just Iceland getting scorched I can live with it. Also, 2013 is my holiday year, where I will fly to every country in the world (not visiting, just to the airports then on to another airport - I call it Airport Tour Twenty Thirteen, which is what it will say on the T-Shirt), so I am slightly concerned about this news, and don't appreciate your sarcastic tone!

How the hell would you know?  :rolleyes:

shazbot = chadz :P

And some interesting shit about the solar storms: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/179815-Space-storm-alert-90-seconds-from-catastrophe
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Xant on January 31, 2011, 03:52:11 pm
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tomchivers/100008500/nasas-2013-solar-flare-warning-how-much-do-we-need-to-worry/
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Punisher on January 31, 2011, 03:54:21 pm
Mate, you might want to check a search engine of your choice for the meaning of the word, protip, it's not based on the nick chadz or whatever gives you that paranoid impression.

I'll just have to look for a certain screenshot a few months ago when TW servers were down and we had peasant wars and out of the blue irc://shazbot appeared on his horse and with a gun :o Never forget!
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: mammoni on January 31, 2011, 03:55:56 pm
Holy fuck, your avatar truly is appropiate.

And awesome job of going offtopic.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Punisher on January 31, 2011, 04:04:19 pm
Hah I found it  :D

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Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Kong Ming on January 31, 2011, 04:06:46 pm
Fewer.


Fewer players now.





Fewer.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on January 31, 2011, 04:13:37 pm
shazbot = chadz :P

Sure.

I know for a fact it isn't chadz, and that rumour has been going around for ever, and it's been disproved many times. It's someone who knows how to add the irc:// nick, but isn't in irc. Guess who!

Anyway, back to the Solar Flares - I didn't read any of those articles because I've come up with a plan. I'll spend the rest of the year worrying endlessly about the Mayan stuff, then if everything seems ok at the end of 2012, I'll read those articles.

Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: RagnarLodbroke on January 31, 2011, 04:19:20 pm
It'll be dead roughly 11 months from now, actually. AND SO ARE WE ALL!!!

11 months? U know we're still in 2011, which means we will still survive this X-mas and the new year.

Btw, do u guys think superman is gonna die 21/12/12?
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on January 31, 2011, 04:20:53 pm
11 months? U know we're still in 2011, which means we will still survive this X-mas and the new year.


It's nice to see someone look on the bright side :)
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Alex_C on January 31, 2011, 04:21:18 pm
It's someone who knows how to add the irc:// nick, but isn't in irc.

Because that's difficult to do.

That basically limits it to being 90% of the Warband player-base. =P
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on January 31, 2011, 04:22:20 pm
Because that's difficult to do.

That basically limits it to being 90% of the Warband player-base. =P

What's your point?
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Leshma on January 31, 2011, 05:00:31 pm
There are still enough people online at any moment. But I like to see more people playing together, even if it's a dirty unwashed grinding mob. Only problem with that is internet infrastructure which ins't good enough to support more than 200 players being at one place swinging at each other. Pecores server BT1_EU4 pre patch when full was laggy as hell, it was great fun but lag was a big issue.

I like games like Warband and Battlefield and I would like to see and play online version of Total War game where would be no NPCs :)
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on January 31, 2011, 06:59:08 pm
Hmm... I am not 100% sure if there are less player in total, but since amount of xp and gold are based on time - some will naturally prefer a less crowded server, since it opens for more "personal" gameplay, or less chances to get a random bolt to the head. ( i have skipped the last page, so there might be some similar replies )

I personally, take long breaks between games now. I can play for 30 min - do something else, and play for an hour or so later the same day, then take few days away from M&b. And I belive many are doing the same thing.

Some will disagree, but these days - a game without some sort of grind ( gear/skills/achievements/global high-scores/whatever else you might think of ) is not living for a long time. It is like 3D graphics, you expect it from a game. Its a fact. There are simply too many other games. The gameplay alone is holding only for some time, since there are some new titles coming out every day. Every day. ( Monday Night Combat is a blast! And its 10 Euro only. A pizza that i am eating right now costs 14 Euro. )

Same as i did not get married with my first girlfriend when i was 16, to live "til death do us part" - I do not want to stick to the same game, if it does not have any new tricks left. Yes, missionary is the most comfortable and overall best value for your time, but there have to be some more achievements to unlock there...

I might be just bored here, but really, 1 hour of M&B a day - is enough now. Its still fun, but 1 hour is enough.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Kong Ming on January 31, 2011, 07:13:20 pm
Fewer.  It's fewer.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Kung Fu Jesus on January 31, 2011, 07:23:07 pm
Definitely fewer. The US can barely fill one server up, while the rest are at half or less. Used to be all full during evenings.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: AgentQ on January 31, 2011, 07:28:59 pm
YES, less players now, coz your troll has nerfed CAV, 2hand,archer... every class in this game.
Mission accomplished!
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Centurion on January 31, 2011, 07:47:20 pm
Y'all are idiots. Patch  fucked up game. All the euros are on eu while the NA people are on NA very simple. Feel free to lag up NA whenever. More easy kills for me.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Vexus on January 31, 2011, 07:52:44 pm
Definitely fewer.

When the patch was still new on europe servers there was 3 servers full now you barely get one full in the morning and late night it rapidly goes down fast.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: verinen on January 31, 2011, 07:57:20 pm
GTX because of the new patch, like DaveUKR.

1. I saw DaveUKR yesterday on some EU server... He is liar and showman.
2. Less people, because 40% of population were archers. After patch bows get nerfed, so- GTX of most archers.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Heroin on January 31, 2011, 07:59:26 pm
There are some things I liked about the patch, but I do attribute our loss of playerbase to people not liking it so much. Since the patch basically makes it so that only a small, select group of people can ever use sets of top-end gear, a lot of other people probably feel bitter/disappointed, and so they don't play as often.

Furthermore, unnecessarily high cost of wpf over 100 has made hybrids the flavor of the day, so everyone in the game has a ranged weapon. I think this could be fixed easily, not by nerfing anyone, but by bringing back the old cost of wpf. This would make being a specialist worth it again.

WPF cost wasn't the problem before anyhow. The problem before was with people who were generation 15, with 250 wpf from wpf retirement exploit, and level 42. Bring back old wpf costs to add more variety to builds! Vote YES for CHOICE!
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: bruce on January 31, 2011, 08:00:26 pm
Many retards have GTX crpg because:
- archery got nerfed
- omg I cant upkeep plate snipercrossbow flamberge bwaaah

Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: verinen on January 31, 2011, 08:05:00 pm
- archery got nerfed

Archery got fucked up.
I say this as 2h spammer. (really, I defend my old friend-chers).
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Gorath on January 31, 2011, 08:30:17 pm
Playerbase seems fine to me.  Anyone that was turned off by the patch to the point that they quit the game is a case of good riddance imo.

As for:
Mate, you might want to check a search engine of your choice for the meaning of the word, protip, it's not based on the nick chadz or whatever gives you that paranoid impression.

It's from Tribes ffs. 
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Keshian on January 31, 2011, 08:46:32 pm
Definitely less people on the servers, but that could be fewer people playing or just everyone plays less now or both.  I do know that half the fun for me now is just playing while on vent with my teammates with banner balance on (that change was main thing keeping me interested in game).  Kind of hoping the new strategus delivers and maybe we will see renewed participation, but right now its kind of a way to burn off steam for an hour if you are playing without clan members and then you get bored the repetitive nature of everyone being alike (thrower/2h, polearm spammer/thrower, 1h/xbowmen, all hybrids because wpf changes) and the same level and the decreased diversity makes it an entertaining arcade game but its lost a significant portion of its compelling nature, which is why people play less and the servers are emptier.  Just my 2 cents.

Oh yeah, wpf costs should be switched back, level cap and retirement wpf benefit removal is all you needed, as it is now hybrids are too heavily favored as only way you should go.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: EponiCo on January 31, 2011, 08:56:03 pm
Gotta love strawmen.

Comparison:
In the old system the hybrid looses 35 wpf from his main and is at 82%, from his secondary he looses 80 wpf and is at 60% of max wpf.
In the new system he looses 28wpf from his main and is at 83%, from his secondary he looses 53 wpf and is at 69% of max wpf.
So, ok, that's the difference of 7, respectively 27 wpf, which according to your own statement is laughable.

But like bruce says, in the new system you also have to look at the price tag. In the old system the hybrid would just stack 2 snipers, steel bolts, tears and plate. (Eh, most people took sniper with them at 1 wpf...  :lol: )
In the new system the hybrid would just take one sniper and normal bolts, and will still have 18k less to spend on his melee gear.
This translates into weaker armor and/or heavier armor (armor wpf penalty...) and/or worse weapons (if you can find a weapon that is cheaper yet more effective, that's entire a problem of balance inside the category). Tradeoff is very much there (and I don't see anyone picking up a crossbow just for a few cheap shots).
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Oberyn on January 31, 2011, 08:56:55 pm
You've said that before, and you're still wrong. What diversity was there before? Everyone grinded to get to use the exact same weapons, exact same builds, exact same armor. The diversity of all these things is much greater now.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Babelfish on January 31, 2011, 09:02:07 pm
You've said that before, and you're still wrong. What diversity was there before? Everyone grinded to get to use the exact same weapons, exact same builds, exact same armor. The diversity of all these things is much greater now.

+100
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on January 31, 2011, 09:09:10 pm
Before the patch cRPG was getting really boring. The only reason to keep playing was for Strategus.

I haven't played with the new patch much because of other stuff taking time, but when I did it was fun again - like the period just after one of the  database resets where plate was rare and people had different gear cos they weren't min-maxing to get the best stuff and character, mainly because they hadn't worked out the best stats/gear yet.

Even if the player base had dropped, who cares? The game is good again. If people want to play a grind game, they can play something else, it's no big loss.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Bonze on January 31, 2011, 09:11:59 pm
"But why should I have the same goal? There is no reason whatsoever for me to try and gather the largest playerbase possible. If it is a byproduct of me having fun while playing, that's great. But if I actually have to decide between maintaining a large playerbase or creating a fun game, well - I am sorry, I want to do something that I have fun doing. I am aware that is selfish, but when I wash a car, it's mine, not my neighbours'. (Not that I could afford one :D)"

We don't want your dirty, grinding unwashed masses. If Bonze is a representative of the tards not playing anymore, then all I can say is fuck yeah!


Quote from: chadz
Before the patch, people have been asking me what nick I'm playing with. They knew I was one of them, but who? Well, the answer is simple - They knew wrong, I wasn't playing.

I havent played cRPG before the patch (0.200) for several months, because I haven't had any fun any more. At all. From all the hundreds of items available, people were wearing the ones with the best stats - or trying to get them while waiting in boredom. Because many people thought the fun starts when you finally reached that item/armor. What kind of game is that? You work hundreds of hours just to have fun, eventually?

It wasn't a game any more, it was a grinding marathon. I know some liked that, but I didn't. I am not trying to create a free2play version of WoW here, and if some got that impression, I am sorry to have wasted your time.

Am I aware of the fact that these new changes might drive quite some players away? Totally. But let me tell you one thing, what good is a game developer if he doesn't like his own product?

I'd say that depends on a devs motivation. There are, as far as I can see, two different options: a) The dev wants to play the game itself, b) the dev gets a salary.

Considering that I am sitting in an apartment with estimated 15°C, (I need all the power I can afford for the PC!), instead of sailing around the carribean with a yacht, I'd say b) cant be it. That leaves us with the egoistical option a).

I always thought it was fun if everyone could create his own char, using his own items. The point was not to outgrind other players, but to just spice the game up and give it some variety and persistance. Have your own char, live with it, with it's strength, but also with it's flaws. That is also the reason why there is no respec option.

Retrospective, the very first big patch was indeed the, in my opinion, worst decision ever. I thought "Hey, that xp function is a bit silly, after level 31 you cant upgrade your char any more! Bug! Constant progression forever!" And i thought other games do it too, so it must be for a reason. Now I realise they have a very good reason, monthly subscriptions.

But why should I have the same goal? There is no reason whatsoever for me to try and gather the largest playerbase possible. If it is a byproduct of me having fun while playing, that's great. But if I actually have to decide between maintaining a large playerbase or creating a fun game, well - I am sorry, I want to do something that I have fun doing. I am aware that is selfish, but when I wash a car, it's mine, not my neighbours'. (Not that I could afford one )
The decision was between stopping the project cRPG altogether, or change it radically. Therefore, keeping it as it was, was actually NO option, at least not from my side.

For everyone who wants to leave: I am sorry for every single one I have disappointed, I really hope you find a game that fits your needs and playstyle more, and thanks for being an important part of the journey.

To all the others (or new players) that still think the game is fun, let's start a new chapter and have a fun trip to see where the project cRPG ends - because I have no ******** idea.

(That's something a dev on salary can't say, yay!)


**********************************************************************************




Nice copy paste ehhh

Well , say Thx to donkey. The blue text is my favorite part : He, comrade god him self  (and the most  "missing" players ) dont want dirty , team stacking , 24/7 , grinding,  ganking,  gold farming clans.


Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Oberyn on January 31, 2011, 09:15:32 pm
Maybe you're not familiar with the purpose of ". Those are quote brackets. Meaning that is a quote. Congrats on your discovery.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Gorath on January 31, 2011, 09:16:58 pm
Well , say Thx to donkey. The blue text is my favorite part : He, comrade god him self  (and the most  "missing" players ) dont want dirty , team stacking , 24/7 , grinding,  ganking,  gold farming clans.
:shock:
Nerf clans?   :rolleyes:

You're right, it's such a shame that clans get to play with their players on the same team.... such a shame..... I'm weeping on the inside, really.....
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on January 31, 2011, 09:26:58 pm
It wasn't a game any more, it was a grinding marathon. I know some liked that, but I didn't. I am not trying to create a free2play version of WoW here, and if some got that impression, I am sorry to have wasted your time.


Well , say Thx to donkey. The blue text is my favorite part : He, comrade god him self  (and the most  "missing" players ) dont want dirty , team stacking , 24/7 , grinding,  ganking,  gold farming clans.

Just to be helpful, I've highlighted the bits of your text that logically follow from what chadz said, as quoted by you in blue (I've used red to highlight).

I did it because you seem to have accidentally added your own current rage issues with aspects of cRPG that have nothing to do with the quote from chadz. I've left those parts un-highlighted.

Glad I could be of assistance. :)
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: jspook on January 31, 2011, 09:35:51 pm
I also would have added gold farming to that list, but with the new patch, there really isnt any gold farming at all.
You might say that leaching is GF, but they are simply just wasting hours of their lives not earning ANY MORE GOLD than anyone else in the server.  they should just play, they would get the same result.  the latest patch was awesome.  not perfect, but much more fun.

I would submit to you that team stacking and ganking are an essential part of any team deathmatch experience.
Have you ever played an FPS on any ladder?  thats the whole point.  play with people you like, and win.
When I am on vent or mumble with my friends, we always like to be on the same team.
get some friends
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Bonze on January 31, 2011, 09:46:36 pm
:shock:
Nerf clans?   :rolleyes:

You're right, it's such a shame that clans get to play with their players on the same team.... such a shame..... I'm weeping on the inside, really.....


Its called balance ...or sportsmanship. I know, sportsmanship is an unknown word since the last patch especially for clans like drz . XP and Gold nothing else matters.

Ill like the superscription : Less players now? But he forgett the "why" xD



Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Gorath on January 31, 2011, 10:04:20 pm

Its called balance ...or sportsmanship.

Sorry, no.  Sports are seperated by teams, they don't mix players from each team or accept pubbies onto the field.  Even in a pubbie match at your local field you seperate into pre-determined teams.  Sportsmanship is defined as: 
Quote
sports·man·ship noun \-ˌship\
Definition of SPORTSMANSHIP
: conduct (as fairness, respect for one's opponent, and graciousness in winning or losing) becoming to one participating in a sport
 
  Merriam Webster.

Quote
sports·man·ship   /ˈspɔrtsmənˌʃɪp, ˈspoʊrts-/  Show Spelled
[spawrts-muhn-ship, spohrts-]   
–noun
1. the character, practice, or skill of a sportsman.
2. sportsmanlike conduct, as fairness, courtesy, being a cheerful loser, etc.
Dictionary.com

Quote
sportsmanship 
Sportsmanship is behaviour and attitudes that show respect for the rules of a game and for the other players.
Collins Dictionary.net

Playing with clan-mates isn't breaking any rules of the game (most games encourage this, and ALL sports do) so it's falls perfectly within the realm of fair play (IE:  Not cheating).  Maybe rather than bitching about clans you should practice one of the other tenants of good sportsmanship:  Being a gracious loser.   :wink:
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: nuffen on January 31, 2011, 10:07:38 pm
Wow
Weird thread. I was just thinking that I have never seen so many players on the servers. EU 1 very often full, EU 2 usually enough people to play, and loads of people on the siege servers.
On the other hand, I didnt play during christmas.. :)
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: jspook on January 31, 2011, 10:14:47 pm
Sorry, no.  Sports are seperated by teams, they don't mix players from each team or accept pubbies onto the field.  Even in a pubbie match at your local field you seperate into pre-determined teams. 

Agreed.

Why not start a 10 man TDM league (not strategus, a ladder system, like clan ladder or Cal)
Do we even have enough US players to support a ladder?  I know there are more than enough EU, but the 2 should be seperated out of necessity (ping)
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Ganon on January 31, 2011, 11:41:25 pm
You've said that before, and you're still wrong. What diversity was there before? Everyone grinded to get to use the exact same weapons, exact same builds, exact same armor. The diversity of all these things is much greater now.

The correct way to obtain diversity is horizontally (ok don't make any sex jokes pls). This means, maxed out characters with maxed out equipment should have different options, all equally powerful (this is called balance), and this way not everyone stays the same. We currently have this with players being freely able to chose between different builds (by this i mean stats and skills), but it wasn't there prepatch for items, and isn't there now because now the diversity is vertical (meaning players will chose better or worse equipment based on their finances and multiplier). The vertical diversity is also imposed by game mechanics, and favors some builds over others (agi builds with light armor are favored vs the hated tincan builds which are not viable anymore, so everyone is doing some sort of agi build). Exceptions are a few str characters, some do it because they like that style even if it's not the best possible, i do it because of that but i'll go to a more balanced copycutter build when/if i have to time to retire again. Imposing something to force players to a particular playstyle obviously isn't fun and is driving players away.

In the end it's chadz' mod and he is free to do patches like this one. He said he's not interested in maxing the population and that saddens me but it's in his right to do it. I'm still playing, but once i run out of gold i'll have to grind again, and i'm not sure i want to do that. So the main reason i see that is driving players away is that they're being forced to a certain playstyle, and if they want to do something different, they're forced to grind more even after maxing out their char. Playing differently as you want + being forced to grind forever means people will continue to leave the mod.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Xant on January 31, 2011, 11:44:48 pm
There's no best equipment, really. The WPF/Movement speed nerf with heavy armors is great. Means that everything has different kinds of drawbacks and advantages.

Plate armor is definitely sustainable, I could use 60k equipment for several hours, only losing 2k in the end. You don't make money in it, but so what?
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Ganon on February 01, 2011, 12:59:01 am
Xant, if i use plate armor i lose tens of thousands of gold in a few hours. Of course if you farm costantly at x5 that's not the average case.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: bruce on February 01, 2011, 01:01:18 am
Idk. The numbers say cheaper plate with a cheaper weapon should be almost sustainable on the long run, but obviously you're going to need a good money buffer for it.

There is a number of 48-50 body armour rating armors which are definitely sustainable.

Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Ganon on February 01, 2011, 01:59:18 am
Idk. The numbers say cheaper plate with a cheaper weapon should be almost sustainable on the long run, but obviously you're going to need a good money buffer for it.

There is a number of 48-50 body armour rating armors which are definitely sustainable.

Please let's not change the topic and then go discuss semantics, you can sustain 48k of equipment, assume plate armor is milanese plate or gothic plate, so factor that in as body armor then add helmet, gauntlets and boots of similar ar, a weapon or two, you're going to lose gold. If you want to discuss that again, there's alot of old threads.

This evening i noticed the lack of players (it's no longer weekend). Both eu1 and eu4 have less players than what is used to be. I'm not making the numbers up, so stop saying "no there's more players!!one!". There are less players, the reasons are known, some servers are going to be shutdown in the near future(less players = less donations). Just check it out yourself. If you just post and don't play, then you're one less player and confirm the fact that many people stopped playing. These are all obvious facts, if you disagree please provide some solid argument.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: serpus on February 01, 2011, 02:01:17 am
As the quality of the server admins decreases, so does the player population.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Ganon on February 01, 2011, 02:05:59 am
As the quality of the server admins decreases, so does the player population.

What have admins to do with it.. oh wait, do play on the us servers ? I know of no huge problems on the eu servers with admins. Everything seems normal.. And stop derailing the thread :(

The topic is THERE ARE LESS PLAYERS, WHY AND DO WE CARE ?
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Gorath on February 01, 2011, 02:10:20 am
THERE ARE LESS PLAYERS, WHY AND DO WE CARE ?

Why?   They're whiners
Do we care?  Not in the slightest.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: chadz on February 01, 2011, 02:18:44 am
The playerbase has dropped from the average of 3200-3600 unique keys per day (beginning of january) to about 2800-3100 per day. Personally, I was expecting more quits.

Reasons for less players:
Patch GTX
no more holidays / exams / work
no more steam sale
solar flares
people got a life and a girlfriend (I made that one up)

How many left for what reason, I have no idea. I'd guess it's 40% GTX, and the rest distributed on the others, who knows.

However, it doesn't drop any further by the looks of it, it seems to stay at status quo.

Either way, as long as there are servers with people in it, I am not worried. The point is I can have a good time playing the game whenever I want, be it in the night or in the morning, there are always some players. So It's fine :)
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: serpus on February 01, 2011, 02:21:52 am
You can't ignore the bad admin'ing factor.  It was even addressed by a top server admin just a few days ago
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: chadz on February 01, 2011, 02:24:53 am
You can't ignore the bad admin'ing factor.  It was even addressed by a top server admin just a few days ago

Büllshit.

If you disagree with a server admin, you switch server, you don't leave the game. Unless you suggest all crpg server admins across the globe are corrupted?
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: serpus on February 01, 2011, 02:28:28 am
Then how can you support these bans that span across all continental servers?
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: chadz on February 01, 2011, 02:29:22 am
I still have no idea what you really are talking about...
Edit: are you implying that the player base dropped by several hundred players because.. they all got banned?
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: serpus on February 01, 2011, 02:30:56 am
I'm talking about the recent rash of really bad admin calls on the NA servers, resulting in players being banned across ALL NA servers.  It's not a lot of players, but a significant amount that several threads have been created, and then either locked or deleted to sweep it under the rug.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: IG_Saint on February 01, 2011, 02:35:10 am
Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but chad doesn't have anything to do with the NA admins?
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Blondin on February 01, 2011, 02:36:39 am
I never had problems with any admin (NE or EU), and i guess this is not the problem for a big majority of players, so that's not the point.

One other factor : players that wait for Strategus re-opening, they have their main character at lvl 30 (or 31...) so they don't mind level up anymore and they just wait to play their char in strat. And there is no need to lvl up an alt anymore, you only play it for pleasure now.
Without banner balance, the servers would be nearly empty.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: serpus on February 01, 2011, 02:37:01 am
Maybe not, but I feel that it is important for the game creator to be in touch with what is happening within the margins of the servers.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: chadz on February 01, 2011, 02:38:13 am
as far as I know, there are two different NA servers, and as far as I know, they do not share any banlists or something. And the server admins in the unban forums cant delete threads, afaik.

Either way, for the next patch there are some ideas planned to make more server hostings available by making it easier to get access -> everyone somewhat trustworthy will be able to host a server, more or less.



Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Whalen207 on February 01, 2011, 02:38:47 am
solar flares

Excuses, Excuses...
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Rogue_Eagle on February 01, 2011, 02:48:56 am
everyone somewhat trustworthy will be able to host a server, more or less.

this is good news.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: MrExxc on February 01, 2011, 03:04:48 am
Less players?? I must say indeed I remember during Christmas almost all big EU cRPG servers where on top of the server list along with the 22nd native siege server, this might not be the case anymore nowadays, but there are always people to play with! I played a game for about 1 year called Dungeon Party, we were like 20 at rush hours and we still had fun and even organised mini tournaments! I feel like the community is getting more mature and I'm having a blast on this mod! I sincerely admire chadz work, cause you've actually made my dream game come true. Since M&B(1), I always wanted to make some kind of an MMO without the grinding and with M&B's gameplay, but I'm not a programmer. Thank you dude.
(Forgive me for my early whine threads just after the big patch, I have seen the light!)
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Kong Ming on February 01, 2011, 04:49:44 am
Change is hard.  Seriously though, I'm sure with Strategus frozen, many players are just on less consistently because of the lack of a need for consistency.  When Strategus is running again this will change.  Also, it hasn't seemed to be an issue imo.  The servers still have plenty enough players on them at all times of the day.  Also, for the last time I promise, it's fewer players.  Not less.  Fewer.   :P
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Gorath on February 01, 2011, 05:16:39 am
I still have no idea what you really are talking about...
Edit: are you implying that the player base dropped by several hundred players because.. they all got banned?

Well.... There ARE alot of fucktards on the internet.....
 :twisted:
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Kong Ming on February 01, 2011, 05:29:28 am
Yeah. Hey, you ever go on the Internet? They got some cool stuff there on that Internet.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Heroin on February 01, 2011, 07:50:14 am
as far as I know, there are two different NA servers, and as far as I know, they do not share any banlists or something. And the server admins in the unban forums cant delete threads, afaik.

Either way, for the next patch there are some ideas planned to make more server hostings available by making it easier to get access -> everyone somewhat trustworthy will be able to host a server, more or less.

There are 3 unique NA servers that do not share a banlist. The only servers that DO share a banlist are the NA-80 man server, the duel/strat server, and the siege server. The 100 man NA server has an independent banlist, and the "Fallen One" server has it's own banlist.

Personally, I find the idea of more servers to be disheartening, since we rarely fill the ones we've got these days. Never ANYONE on the "Fallen One" server that I've seen. The 80 man runs at half capacity these days, most likely because the other half are playing on NA siege. The 100 man server maintains a healthy, active population though, from what I've seen.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Rhaelys on February 01, 2011, 08:12:08 am
There are 3 unique NA servers that do not share a banlist. The only servers that DO share a banlist are the NA-80 man server, the duel/strat server, and the siege server. The 100 man NA server has an independent banlist, and the "Fallen One" server has it's own banlist.

Personally, I find the idea of more servers to be disheartening, since we rarely fill the ones we've got these days. Never ANYONE on the "Fallen One" server that I've seen. The 80 man runs at half capacity these days, most likely because the other half are playing on NA siege. The 100 man server maintains a healthy, active population though, from what I've seen.

Don't knock TFO; it was the only NA server available for some time after the big patch was released. It's a haven for those who prefer smaller pop servers, and is a playground for RS and other cool cats.

And it comes at absolutely no cost to the community, because Scott is so generous to front its upkeep.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Heroin on February 01, 2011, 08:24:00 am
Don't knock TFO; it was the only NA server available for some time after the big patch was released. It's a haven for those who prefer smaller pop servers, and is a playground for RS and other cool cats.

And it comes at absolutely no cost to the community, because Scott is so generous to front its upkeep.

I don't believe I "knocked" anything at all. I said I didn't like the idea of MORE servers than what we currently have. I then backed up that opinion with facts.

I haven't been vocal in any opinion at all regarding the TFO server. I played there while the other NA servers were down, and it was good to have a server that wasn't malfunctioning. However, I looked for the server the other day during peak time to consider playing there, and there was no one on it at all.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on February 01, 2011, 11:22:55 am
I never had problems with any admin (NE or EU), and i guess this is not the problem for a big majority of players, so that's not the point.

One other factor : players that wait for Strategus re-opening, they have their main character at lvl 30 (or 31...) so they don't mind level up anymore and they just wait to play their char in strat. And there is no need to lvl up an alt anymore, you only play it for pleasure now.
Without banner balance, the servers would be nearly empty.

This is actually quite a big factor I think. I know quite a few people (most of my clan) who don't play as often now because they are waiting for the next Strategus patch.

Not that cRPG isn't fun to play, just that Strategus gives it more purpose. Once you've played all the builds you want and used all the gear you wanted to try out, its like a training ground for something bigger - strategus. cRPG is like native expanded with more features, but Strategus is what TW should have made for their multiplayer - single player, but in multiplayer. It gives so many more options for people who want to play together as a clan (banner balance is a good way in the meantime).

All it needs is for going it alone to be viable as well, and it'll be perfect.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Camaris on February 01, 2011, 12:17:19 pm
There are some things I liked about the patch, but I do attribute our loss of playerbase to people not liking it so much. Since the patch basically makes it so that only a small, select group of people can ever use sets of top-end gear, a lot of other people probably feel bitter/disappointed, and so they don't play as often.

Furthermore, unnecessarily high cost of wpf over 100 has made hybrids the flavor of the day, so everyone in the game has a ranged weapon. I think this could be fixed easily, not by nerfing anyone, but by bringing back the old cost of wpf. This would make being a specialist worth it again.

WPF cost wasn't the problem before anyhow. The problem before was with people who were generation 15, with 250 wpf from wpf retirement exploit, and level 42. Bring back old wpf costs to add more variety to builds! Vote YES for CHOICE!

I manage to play in Full-Plate quite often. Im in a small group? Probalby not.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Joker86 on February 01, 2011, 01:10:48 pm
Also, for the last time I promise, it's fewer players.  Not less.  Fewer.   :P

Sorry, it's not my mother language. So may I assume it's like much - less and many - fewer?  :?
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on February 01, 2011, 01:34:59 pm
Sorry, it's not my mother language. So may I assume it's like much - less and many - fewer?  :?
grmpf, tried to explain it but i got absolutely confused as well. basicly much and less are for uncountable things like time, hair, money. many and fewer are for countable things like persons, players, houses, etc. But when I thought about how "more" is to categorized in this I gave up.  :|

oh, reading it again makes it simple, more you is an comparison to much and many. and of course the player base can only be smaller, but who cares anyway?
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Joker86 on February 01, 2011, 01:44:24 pm
Yeah, we learned that at the first year of English, many is for countable things, much for uncountable things. I can't hear "much and many" any more  :mrgreen:

Ninja-edited the topic title  :wink:
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: krampe on February 01, 2011, 02:37:46 pm
Never ANYONE on the "Fallen One" server that I've seen.
However, I looked for the server the other day during peak time to consider playing there, and there was no one on it at all.
I then backed up that opinion with facts.

To sum it up, you looked on the server once so you conclude never anyone plays there?
nice research for your facts!
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Bothersome_Aldryk on February 01, 2011, 04:37:27 pm
I often wish that the server caps were a decent bit smaller, so that the population would spread out more to other servers. I don't really enjoy playing on 70+ population servers, and oftentimes almost the entire North American population is on the NA or the Siege Server with almost no one on the other servers. A bit sad for players like me who prefer a mid sized amount.
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Miriam on February 01, 2011, 04:46:11 pm
Well... i stopped playing because for some reason from about a month ago to nowadays my ping is really bad. I have costant lag spikes when i'm close to the enemies, and i don't know why... so is quite unplayable for me.
Title: Re: Less players now?
Post by: Heroin on February 01, 2011, 06:22:04 pm
To sum it up, you looked on the server once so you conclude never anyone plays there?
nice research for your facts!

I added it to my favorites when I found it. So now I see it every time I go to join another game, and I've still never seen anyone on it.
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Krakatit on February 01, 2011, 06:33:04 pm
Well... i stopped playing because for some reason from about a month ago to nowadays my ping is really bad. I have costant lag spikes when i'm close to the enemies, and i don't know why... so is quite unplayable for me.

Dont forget to register at our new forum when it will be better :) We have not forgotten you...
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Kong Ming on February 01, 2011, 06:49:55 pm
Yeah, we learned that at the first year of English, many is for countable things, much for uncountable things. I can't hear "much and many" any more  :mrgreen:

Ninja-edited the topic title  :wink:

Joker, you make me happy.   :D   It's a very common grammar error that native English speakers make all the time.
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Devilize on February 01, 2011, 07:57:08 pm
I imagine seeing more players again once strategus is up. its what im waiting for and the reason why i play other games atm.
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Joker86 on February 01, 2011, 11:58:17 pm
Joker, you make me happy.   :D   It's a very common grammar error that native English speakers make all the time.

To derail the topic a bit:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Kong Ming on February 02, 2011, 12:26:01 am
I've studied German extensively, never heard the "anderst" thing before.  Weird.  :)
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Eyerra on February 02, 2011, 12:38:03 am
I'm sure people will return after Strategus makes a comeback.

Don't worry, be happy. :)
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Joker86 on February 02, 2011, 04:01:56 am
I've studied German extensively, never heard the "anderst" thing before.  Weird.  :)

Then you will be even more confused by what the people make out of "eben" (= "just", "now", "plain"...): they pronounce (and sometimes even write!) it "ebend".  :shock:
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on February 02, 2011, 10:43:23 am
"ebend" is ruhrpott and i've known it since the 90s but only in the meaning of "exactly".
In general I agree with you joker to some degree, but you also have to consider that this is the way languages have allways and will allways evolve. In long therm view (like several hundred years) new languages arise in this manner. Like from ancient greek and latin to roman languages. Of course you can discuss whether it is evolution or decay but in my opinion this is irrelevant and in either way new languages evolve adequate to the needs of people. And you can do nothing agianst it except preserving the written language.

topic hijacked.
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Vibe on February 02, 2011, 10:49:08 am
Then you will be even more confused by what the people make out of "eben" (= "just", "now", "plain"...): they pronounce (and sometimes even write!) it "ebend".  :shock:

I have even noticed some of ze Germanz pronounce "ich" like "isch" and not "ih". Or am I just hearing wrong? I am quite a rookie at german language.

lol @ derail btw
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: cutsomecheesewithmybow on February 02, 2011, 10:53:43 am
I am waiting for someone to state that Germans have a very strange perception of gender, for example a girl in Germany is neuter.
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Joker86 on February 02, 2011, 01:28:43 pm
Well, for me the topic has done its purpose. I wanted to know if my perception was fooling me, seems it was not, fine. I think it's senseless to try to gues WHY people stopped playing, as there will be many different reasons. And noone can tell the "percentages" of those reasons making the players stop playing. Even a survey would probably deliver false results, as for example the "Steam sale is over"-people won't vote.  :wink:

I have even noticed some of ze Germanz pronounce "ich" like "isch" and not "ih". Or am I just hearing wrong?

No, you're not, it's right. Sometimes it's simply dialect, but in many cases it's being a brainless retard, often compensated by a lot of muscles. I bet you know those people who don't talk "in their mouth" but more "in their throat". When it sounds close to "Ugh! Ugh! Ugh!"

I am waiting for someone to state that Germans have a very strange perception of gender, for example a girl in Germany is neuter.

I never noticed this, but you are perfectly right  :lol:

And you can do nothing agianst it except preserving the written language.

This is what I do. You are right, you can't do anything about it. It's just that I don't get the changes. I even understand "Isch" instead of "Ich", but how is a word supposed to be pronounced easier if you add a "t" or "d" at the end?  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Kong Ming on February 03, 2011, 10:20:44 am
Well, in the case of "ebend", the extra "d" comes from a very simple situation.  To form an "n" sound, you place the tip of your tongue on the gum-line directly behind your upper teeth (the alveolar ridge) and produce vocalized sound that gets directed through your nose (try it).  To form a "d" sound, you place your tongue in the same spot, and then pull it off the ridge while vocalizing.  So in this case, people are pulling their tongue off the ridge before they've finished vocalizing the "n", thus creating an unintentional "d" sound, which has now become socially accepted (though incorrectly) as a pronunciation.  An extra "t" results from the same situation, although with "t" the vocalization has ceased, but air is still released in what is called a "plosion" and is the fundamental difference between "d" and "t" sounds which are otherwise identical.  I also studied speech extensively.  Huge nerd.  Topic thoroughly high-jacked.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Ganon on February 03, 2011, 11:20:11 am
I am waiting for someone to state that Germans have a very strange perception of gender, for example a girl in Germany is neuter.

Ancient germans had inverted morality, where gay sex was cool and mating with a woman was considered weak :D Always made me laugh.
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: krampe on February 03, 2011, 12:47:40 pm
Ancient germans had inverted morality, where gay sex was cool and mating with a woman was considered weak :D Always made me laugh.

Did you see that in a docu on Fox?
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: B3RS3RK on February 03, 2011, 01:54:17 pm
You Guys should know that the "Ebend" and such things are part of a clever system in Germany which allows you to differ the social classes of people by the way they talk.So we start to have 3 german languages instead of one.
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Ganon on February 03, 2011, 02:52:22 pm
Did you see that in a docu on Fox?

No, it was an ancient roman history writer who described the germans and wrote that down, as well as the weird habit to put some flesh under the saddle and eat some of  it while moving. Horsesweat somehow kept it from going bad(must be the salt in it), but it wasn't something nice to eat either :D Does fox now do documentaries ? I thought they were a series channel only.

You should read some original or translated texts from the ancients, so many myths can be busted this way. For example many celt fans say the druids didn't do human sacrifices, while we find detailed descriptions on how and when they would do them. Which is also the reason their religion was outlawed and we know so little of it today.
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Thucydides on February 03, 2011, 02:53:59 pm
No, it was an ancient roman history writer who described the germans and wrote that down, as well as the weird habit to put some flesh under the saddle and eat some of  it while moving. Horsesweat somehow kept it from going bad(must be the salt in it), but it wasn't something nice to eat either :D Does fox now do documentaries ? I thought they were a series channel only.

You should read some original or translated texts from the ancients, so many myths can be busted this way. For example many celt fans say the druids didn't do human sacrifices, while we find detailed descriptions on how and when they would do them. Which is also the reason their religion was outlawed and we know so little of it today.

you do realize that roman sources are biased against barbarian nations, right?
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Thucydides on February 03, 2011, 02:59:08 pm
"ebend" is ruhrpott and i've known it since the 90s but only in the meaning of "exactly".
In general I agree with you joker to some degree, but you also have to consider that this is the way languages have allways and will allways evolve. In long therm view (like several hundred years) new languages arise in this manner. Like from ancient greek and latin to roman languages. Of course you can discuss whether it is evolution or decay but in my opinion this is irrelevant and in either way new languages evolve adequate to the needs of people. And you can do nothing agianst it except preserving the written language.

topic hijacked.

The romantic languages were originally languages of Germanic origins, but adopted much of latin's conventions due to the cultural dominance of rome.
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Ganon on February 03, 2011, 03:05:27 pm
you do realize that roman sources are biased against barbarian nations, right?

Not all were biased, and they were reporting facts not opinions. Also they knew the germans very well and even hired some german horsemen to fight with them. They also had direct contact with the celts (they conquered them), so the facts they reported can be considered accurate enough. If the druids eviscerated people to foretell the future of a battle by the way the man died and how his intestines moved, it isn't the ancient romans' fault   :? I mean facts with details, even some druids were named and we know they had direct contact with both populations, what else do you want. You can chose to believe myths and legends without any source if you want, but that's not history.
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Xant on February 03, 2011, 03:06:56 pm
Did you see that in a docu on Fox?

So how did they reproduce  :lol:
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on February 03, 2011, 03:08:10 pm
you do realize that roman sources are biased against barbarian nations, right?
biased? They invented them.
Not all were biased, and they were reporting facts not opinions. Also they knew the germans very well and even hired some german horsemen to fight with them. They also had direct contact with the celts (they conquered them), so the facts they reported can be considered accurate enough. If the druids eviscerated people to foretell the future of a battle by the way the man died and how his intestines moved, it isn't the ancient romans' fault   :? I mean facts with details, even some druids were named and we know they had direct contact with both populations, what else do you want. You can chose to believe myths and legends without any source if you want, but that's not history.
uh, I heavily disagree. All historical documents are biased and especially the ones in that time period. You can try to approach what might have happened at that time but I would be very careful with the word "fact".
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on February 03, 2011, 03:21:06 pm
Not all were biased, and they were reporting facts not opinions. Also they knew the germans very well and even hired some german horsemen to fight with them. They also had direct contact with the celts (they conquered them), so the facts they reported can be considered accurate enough. If the druids eviscerated people to foretell the future of a battle by the way the man died and how his intestines moved, it isn't the ancient romans' fault   :? I mean facts with details, even some druids were named and we know they had direct contact with both populations, what else do you want. You can chose to believe myths and legends without any source if you want, but that's not history.

This belongs in the historical discussion area.

But anyway, Thucydides (the poster here, not the Greek historian) is correct.

Unless you want to tell me that you believe that the Druids had a mystical egg that they captured after it was formed from the 'scum of serpents' who lifted it up so that the druid could catch it before it fell? (Tacitus, in Agricola, and Pliny)

Generally, modern classical historians consider that the ancient sources are not necessarily 100% true.

Don't forget that the study of history was practised in a very different way back then. Mostly it did come from word of mouth - particularly when dealing with areas that the Romans had little experience of.

Also, to talk about the Germans as if they were a nation as they are now is misleading. The Romans had contact with only a few tribes who lived along the Rhine and north of the Danube. Germanic tribes also migrated often, so the Romans had very little idea of who actually lived in Germany or what they did.
Germanic tribes were frequently used as tools in Roman propaganda (Claudius did this most famously).

In short, no you can't rely on the ancient sources for historical accuracy.
Title: Re: Fewer players now?
Post by: Ganon on February 03, 2011, 03:39:27 pm
I didn't say they were all true, just that when they reported facts with details, and not some legend, there is no reason to believe they were false or made up and so it's reasonable to believe that particular fact to be true. (this thread has been derailed previously so don't look at me i didn't derail it).

If you want go to back on topic, i'll say that another reason that drives players away is the recent lag issues. Given the nature of this game, lag will completely ruin it.