cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Damatacus_ATS on September 16, 2011, 09:55:38 am

Title: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Damatacus_ATS on September 16, 2011, 09:55:38 am
Is this just me or has there been another archery nerf, as if there has not been enough already. Such BS.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Kafein on September 16, 2011, 09:59:09 am
Is this just me or has there been another archery nerf, as if there has not been enough already. Such BS.

Explain how jumping while drawing, turning your cam and shooting wasn't "BS" :)
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Kingtrisp on September 16, 2011, 10:18:30 am
o dear you cant be like legolas now?? awww what a shame...
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Tot. on September 16, 2011, 10:21:55 am
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,15838.0.html     you people read forums sometime?

Its rather funny now seeing archer still trying it and dying in process with a big question mark on his face.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Kenji on September 16, 2011, 10:25:48 am
No problem, we will nerf cav to compensate. Thanks for bringing this up.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Damatacus_ATS on September 16, 2011, 10:46:21 am
They should have melee attacks cancel while jumping too then. Make it even.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: karasu on September 16, 2011, 10:52:43 am
Look on the bright side, now you can roleplay a jumping penguin, while gasping at the aweful glimpse of the future when my maul hunts you.

 :oops:
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Vibe on September 16, 2011, 10:55:16 am
 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Damatacus_ATS on September 16, 2011, 10:57:38 am
ya ha ha ha archers get fucked over again, its so funny.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 11:01:15 am
Truly is.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Damatacus_ATS on September 16, 2011, 11:01:21 am
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,15838.0.html     you people read forums sometime?

Its rather funny now seeing archer still trying it and dying in process with a big question mark on his face.
I guess I must have actually been playing while you all were bitching and whining on the forums about getting killed by archery, until it got nerfed again for the 100th time.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Kingtrisp on September 16, 2011, 11:01:56 am
Fucked over? eh you have only had the abilty to jump and shoot taken away and lets face it jumping with a longbow and trying to shoot in mid air while turning around is quite silly and i would like to see if you can hit the target properly!! or how about this run away and instead of jumping and shooting just turn and shoot and run away again!!

P.s you sound very mad
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Damatacus_ATS on September 16, 2011, 11:12:38 am
Fucked over? eh you have only had the abilty to jump and shoot taken away and lets face it jumping with a longbow and trying to shoot in mid air while turning around is quite silly and i would like to see if you can hit the target properly!! or how about this run away and instead of jumping and shooting just turn and shoot and run away again!!

P.s you sound very mad
I don't use a longbow, never have. It is not about shooting while in the air, that never worked. Jumping and turning around allowed you to narrow your reticule while still moving, now you have to stop and wait about 3 sec for your reticule to narrow. This is significant, as 3 sec can make a big difference at times. And, yes I am mad, but not just about this, its all the nerfs all the time that I hate.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 11:13:55 am
Yes, I can understand you being quite mad for not being able to kite and shoot at chasing infantry forever.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on September 16, 2011, 11:14:20 am
Fucked over? eh you have only had the abilty to jump and shoot taken away and lets face it jumping with a longbow and trying to shoot in mid air while turning around is quite silly and i would like to see if you can hit the target properly!! or how about this run away and instead of jumping and shooting just turn and shoot and run away again!!


And jumping and hitting with plate or heavy chainmail together with a big polearm/2h or a heavy shield and 1h is better and more realistic than jumping with a bow?  :shock:

Oh comeon guys, for once in your life turn your brains on and make some thing equal in this game. Stop complaining about realism etc etc etc if you just want it the way that you get most profit by your so-called "realism"  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: CaptainQuantum on September 16, 2011, 11:15:12 am
Jump shooting was never advantageous to an archer unless they are last ranged alive, jumping forces a definite landing position so any ranged will aim there and hit. I don't think this will be a full end to kiting, but it did look retarded, this is coming from a guy who did archery for 3 generations.

Not realistic no, but that never has been the way this game is balanced, it was instead that archery could kite melee around the map. The way I used to play archery was; if the melee got to me and they keep me in range, well done they have beat me. I would then just manual block until I saw another chance to fire an arrow.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Damatacus_ATS on September 16, 2011, 11:17:12 am
Yes, I can understand you being quite mad for not being able to kite and shoot at chasing infantry forever.
I am not a kiting archer, I use a strongbow and I carry a mace. Anyone who plays with me can attest that I am not a kiting archer.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Gristle on September 16, 2011, 11:18:07 am
The devs constantly say they do not make changes based on realism. Based on that, I do question why I can no longer jump and fire my crossbow, but I can jump and swing my sword.

Can you fix something more important, like lolstabs, next?
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: CaptainQuantum on September 16, 2011, 11:18:19 am
Yes but this is a nerf to kiting archers, not a full one, I will still see people just turning and running then shooting which is more of an issue.

There is no problems with lolstabs, and jumping is necessary for melee to get out of bad situations. IMO polestun should go next.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: MrShine on September 16, 2011, 11:21:27 am
I'll give you the realism thing, but consider recent history.

Slot changes implemented: Longbow & Rus bow are 2 slots
Result: Horn bow & other 1 slot bow users can still be fairly effective with a 1 slot melee weapon, but 2-slotter archers go hammer sidearm with very low offensive capabilities.  Archers less likely to engage in melee; more 'runners' as a result.

Arrow break chance/cost increased: 1 Stack of bodkins costs ~350 gold to repair & one breaks nearly every round
Result: High tier arrows become more difficult to maintain in a loadup and is either compensated by (even) less armor or lower tier arrows. Overall archery damage slightly lower as a result.

Missile speed decreased: It becomes harder to high long range targets due to increased 'lead time' for arrows.
Result: Overall reliable 'hit zone' for archers decreased.  More misses at range, less chances to effectively hit a closing enemy.  Overall archery damage slightly decreased.

Cut damage change: Cut damage does reduced damage against armor, but bounces less.
Result: Non longbow archers get overall damage nerf.  Consequently more archers drop 1 slot cut bows in favor of heavier cut 2 slot rus bows or (even more common) pierce 2 slot longbows (this means more archers have 0 slot hammers). 

Now:
Bunnyhopping removed: Archers can no longer draw their bow while jumping.
Result: Kiting abilities of archers nerfed; less shots fired by fleeing archers.


So let's recap:
Archers pigeonholed into having 2 slot bows for effectiveness, resulting in terrible melee capabilities.
Archers have a harder time hitting things at range, resulting in more running for survival.
Archers unable to draw bow while jumping, resulting in less effective running for survival.

And people wonder why archers hang out on rooftops?  People rage at archers running and not engaging in melee unless it's a last resort?

Oh yeah, isn't there a lot of ladder drama going on right now on the forums, with people wanting placeable ladders in battle to be removed (which as a stand alone item I'm in favor of) and others saying all in-game ladders should be removed?  Wonder what class that's directed at  :rolleyes:

There's a reason I traded my MW Horn bow and my MW Bodkin Arrows away and am probably not going to go archer again for awhile.  The nerfs (past present and anticipated future) make it a very underwhelming class.  Like cav, archers will get most of their kills by preying on peasants and the daft 'walk in straight line' melee players, while smart players are much more challenging to take down.  I'm not saying you can't be effective as an archer, but when people get killed at range and rage about archery they probably don't realize it took 2 or 3 different archers to kill him and probably wasn't the work of one guy machine-gunning from somewhere.

I seem to recall Swalker made a challenge for someone to start a pure archer and see if they can retire boasting a positive KD.  I'd love to see someone take that up. I'd do it but I'm not into masochism.

E:
I am not a kiting archer, I use a strongbow and I carry a mace. Anyone who plays with me can attest that I am not a kiting archer.
I can vouch for this: Damatacus is a beast in melee. Maybe dropping out of melee to fire a shot or two, but certainly not "a runner".
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: CaptainQuantum on September 16, 2011, 11:22:50 am
I support roof top camping archers, so long as there is a ladder to reach them, as in the crpg rules. And don't forget a lot of classes got nerfs, 2hands especially.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Jacko on September 16, 2011, 11:23:05 am
This affects crossbowmen as well, as in, there is a delay after you jump which prevents you from shooting. Funny thing, you can still "air reload" as a crossbowmen.. Which I guess is nice.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: CaptainQuantum on September 16, 2011, 11:24:38 am
yeah I guess jump shotting with a crossbow isn't so much of an issue. Unless you unintendedly shoot me in the face again!
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Gristle on September 16, 2011, 11:25:13 am
There is no problems with lolstabs
The fact that it exists is the problem.

Quote
jumping is necessary for melee to get out of bad situations.

OK, you can still jump out of that bad situation. You just can't attack while doing so (just like archers).
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Kingtrisp on September 16, 2011, 11:25:31 am
I don't use a longbow, never have. It is not about shooting while in the air, that never worked. Jumping and turning around allowed you to narrow your reticule while still moving, now you have to stop and wait about 3 sec for your reticule to narrow. This is significant, as 3 sec can make a big difference at times. And, yes I am mad, but not just about this, its all the nerfs all the time, that I hate.

I quite obivously meant irl jumping around with bows and shiz but never mind...

And jumping and hitting with plate or heavy chainmail together with a big polearm/2h or a heavy shield and 1h is better and more realistic than jumping with a bow?  :shock:

Oh comeon guys, for once in your life turn your brains on and make some thing equal in this game. Stop complaining about realism etc etc etc if you just want it the way that you get most profit by your so-called "realism"  :rolleyes:

Being able to jump in mail/plate is quite realistic... full plate would be a problem due to weight however!!
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 11:27:13 am
The fact that it exists is the problem.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, bro.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: CaptainQuantum on September 16, 2011, 11:29:13 am
Xant's epic comments :) Lolstab is not an issue, 2hand is retarded with stabs now especially with floor bounce. The recovery time on a stab is so long now if you get overhead chambered it can't be blocked. Also with floor bounce missed stabs hitting the ground will stop you from blocking the next swing unless you dodge it.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 11:31:13 am
This probably means there will be even more xbowmen than archers in the future which is bad. I can avoid most archers and smack them in the face but xbowers I can't.

Xbow needs a serious nerf but as we all know it, ain't gonna happen anytime soon...
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Gristle on September 16, 2011, 11:35:57 am
Crossbows also cannot be fired while jumping anymore.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: MaHuD on September 16, 2011, 11:58:32 am
Jump + shoot was silly anyway, let's be honest.

But to rage because archers run away from you, seriously?
What are they supposed to do, just stand still and wait for you tin cans to finaly reach their position and whack 'm with your polearm/2h ?

Agility melee guys kill archers
STR melee guys shouldn't. You are Shocktroopers, at the front of the attack, taking that damage and killing the enemy infantry.
You should not be super duper and be able to kill, CAV, Archers, Xbows AND other infantry.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 12:01:09 pm
But moo-ooom, I want to be super duper.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Tzar on September 16, 2011, 12:04:34 pm
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Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: SchokoSchaf on September 16, 2011, 12:10:11 pm
I quite obivously meant irl jumping around with bows and shiz but never mind...

Being able to jump in mail/plate is quite realistic... full plate would be a problem due to weight however!!
lulz
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Malaclypse on September 16, 2011, 12:13:17 pm
As I said in a previous thread about this, I'm all for removing jump shots, but would like to see that effect go over to at least some melee weapons if that is the route the mod is going. Keep attacking while jumping limited to small or light one-handers (see: Elder's Long Dagger flying ninja assassin class), if keeping it at all. Also, as a question, was throwing affected by this as well?

Most importantly... please never remove jumping from the game entirely. I like to get my platform on.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: ShinySpoons on September 16, 2011, 12:21:57 pm
For a lot of melee weapons they're capable of being swung when jumping (irl) I guess you'd have more problems with a pike or something like that. So if archery+jumping was nerfed due to the "realism" argument the same should be done for melee. Still, my pipe dream in terms of balance is fixing weapon hitboxes somehow so they don't go through ground/walls/throughmeintoateamate but such is only a dream
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: CaptainQuantum on September 16, 2011, 12:22:57 pm
The reason jump swinging won't be removed is because it has been done in other mods, people jump to a place which can only reach by jumping. They camp there and swing at anyone trying to get up. Thats the reason chadz had to wait for WSE so he could it for ranged only I think.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 12:23:14 pm
Almost all melee weapons would realistically be capable of blocking and attacking when jumping.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Gristle on September 16, 2011, 12:28:57 pm
Which would matter if this mod was balanced based on realism.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Tzar on September 16, 2011, 12:30:35 pm
What would be the point in removing jump n slash for melee  :?:

I dont get it  :?

In what way is it abusive  :?:

Jump n slash compared to archers jump n shoot is 2 completely different things one of em is abusive the other one aint.


Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 12:41:51 pm
They aren't completely different things. They are both as retarded as the other. As if a guy in full plate can jump the full height of a horse and get maximum damage on a swing without causing himself some serious damage. That's if we take the realism road.

The other road is that it looks retarded...which it does.

Both arguments apply to both sets of actions.

Attacking in the air needs to be completely removed or not at all.

I love xant insisting that kiting archers are retarded and that they won't be able to do it now. They will...it will have just prolonged your pain because they will have to run that much further and you will come back here even more butthurt. Jump shooting had nothing to do with kiting...it helped...but kiting is still 100% viable.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: grenadierman on September 16, 2011, 12:44:18 pm
I can't jump and throw anymore. FUCK  :cry:
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Tzar on September 16, 2011, 12:47:05 pm
They aren't completely different things. They are both as retarded as the other. As if a guy in full plate can jump the full height of a horse and get maximum damage on a swing. That's if we take the realism road.

The other road is that it looks retarded...which it does.

I love xant insisting that kiting archers are retarded and that they won't be able to do it now. They will...it will have just prolonged your pain because they will have to run that much further.

You make no sense.

The whole point of removing the ability for archers to prime their shot while jumping was because it made them 10x times better at kiting inf to death without giving them a chance to fight back.

You think its about look n realism?

Anyways your dumb and are now trying to hijack threads about jump shooting to try and remove melee chances of taken your team bumping clan mates and other cav players down by aiming for the rider...

Lmao visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 12:48:22 pm
You make no sense.

The whole point of removing the ability for archer to prime their shot while jumping was because it made them 10x times better at kiting inf to death without giving them a chance to fight back.

You think its about look?

Anyways your dumb and are now trying to hijack threads about jump shooting to try and remove melee chances of taken your team bumping clan mates and other cav players down by aiming for the rider...

You missed the point. Reading comprehension is nice. I said it helped, but it won't stop kiting. People will just run for longer to get that gap opened up again. It means probably an extra 5-6 seconds of running to get the gap to prime the shot, turn and shoot. Which means infantry will come back here even more pissed off than before.

And no...I have an archer alt which I actually play quite a lot. I also play my HA on foot quite a lot. And I'm the dumb one  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: CaptainQuantum on September 16, 2011, 12:48:37 pm
I am with Overdriven on this one, the jump shotters weren't the worst of the runners, it was annoying but the worst were those who just turn and run and then shoot when they have gotten far enough away, rinse repeat. chadz will need to do something about the latter, I wouldn't consider the removal of jump shot a nerf, I am doing perfectly fine on Eu 1 with my archer alt.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 12:49:12 pm
They aren't completely different things. They are both as retarded as the other. As if a guy in full plate can jump the full height of a horse and get maximum damage on a swing without causing himself some serious damage. That's if we take the realism road.

The other road is that it looks retarded...which it does.

Both arguments apply to both sets of actions.

Attacking in the air needs to be completely removed or not at all.

I love xant insisting that kiting archers are retarded and that they won't be able to do it now. They will...it will have just prolonged your pain because they will have to run that much further. Jump shooting had nothing to do with kiting...it helped...but kiting is still 100% viable.

Ok, maybe people in the heaviest of armors wouldn't be jumping around. That still leaves 95% of melee players that could viably do it. Sure, the jump animation isn't the most beautiful one but that's hardly a large issue.

Why does attacking in air need to be completely removed or not at all? What's with the "all or nothing" attitude?

When did I say that kiting archers are retarded, much less insist?  :lol:
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on September 16, 2011, 12:51:02 pm
let me get this straight, i didnt played game lately so i dont know

archers cant jump and attack now but everyone else can ?

really ?
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 12:51:29 pm
let me get this straight, i didnt played game lately so i dont know

archers cant jump and attack now but everyone else can ?

really ?

Nah, apparently no ranged can attack while jumping.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 12:57:00 pm
Ok, maybe people in the heaviest of armors wouldn't be jumping around. That still leaves 95% of melee players that could viably do it. Sure, the jump animation isn't the most beautiful one but that's hardly a large issue.

Why does attacking in air need to be completely removed or not at all? What's with the "all or nothing" attitude?

When did I say that kiting archers are retarded, much less insist?  :lol:

Hell you might be able to do it but it would be bloody hard. In any kind of armour. Chain mail ect is heavier than plate. Most armour doesn't allow you amazing freedom of movement. You certainly wouldn't get full damage and against a charging horse, the impact would damn well knock you down and seriously hurt you. But I'm pretty sure you can throw stuff with a jump, probably shoot a crossbow while jumping and with some bows, shoot whilst jumping. All of it would be bloody difficult and not worth the effort though and certainly not practical in a battlefield. So jump slashing should apply with that.

You didn't say retarded. But you still think they won't kite you any more. Which they will.
Yes, I can understand you being quite mad for not being able to kite and shoot at chasing infantry forever.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 01:00:25 pm
You didn't say retarded. But you still think they won't kite you any more. Which they will.

No, I did not say that. I said "kite and shoot" which implies they are doing both at the same time; jump shooting allowed this. Moving away from your foe while drawing your bow and shooting instantly upon touching the ground. I never said they still wouldn't kite. And yes, you are correct: archers can still run and gain distance to shoot. This is all well and good.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 01:02:49 pm
No, I did not say that. I said "kite and shoot" which implies they are doing both at the same time; jump shooting allowed this. Moving away from your foe while drawing your bow and shooting instantly upon touching the ground. I never said they still wouldn't kite. And yes, you are correct: archers can still run and gain distance to shoot. This is all well and good.

Ok so which argument are you  basing this on? It seems there are about 10 people arguing strongly for this, all from different angles.

You're saying your fine with archers kiting you. Just not jump shooting? I understand your trying to establish a difference between the priming your shot whilst jumping and running a bit further to prime you shot/turn/shoot. But there really is very little difference when it comes down to it. It has the same effect.

Yet others are saying they don't want jump shooting and they think jump shooting will stop kiting.
Some are saying it's not realistic.
Some are saying it looks stupid.

And I'm sure there are others.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: CaptainQuantum on September 16, 2011, 01:04:48 pm
Kiting is fine so long as you are running to your team, if you the last alive then there should be a rule against kiting.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 01:06:57 pm
Ok so which argument are you  basing this on? It seems there are about 10 people arguing strongly for this, all from different angles.

You're saying your fine with archers kiting you. Just not jump shooting? Yet half of your arguing in that other thread was raging about kiters.
Yet others are saying they don't want jump shooting and they think jump shooting will stop kiting.
Some are saying it's not realistic.
Some are saying it looks stupid.

And I'm sure there are others.

Jump shooting is what made kiting so retarded. It made it impossible for anyone without a shield to kill a half-decent archer. Normal kiting is fine, even though I don't think that archers should be able to run so fast. But it's pretty well balanced now.

Who said that jump shooting will stop kiting?

The devs did not state their reason for removing jumpshooting. I'm like purdy gosh darn sure that they didn't do it for it "looking stupid" but for balance reasons.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Gurnisson on September 16, 2011, 01:08:22 pm
I'm more than comfortable killing people in melee, even with the hammer, but now I'll just run without shooting until the infantry doesn't want to follow me anymore, just to be annoying. :lol:
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Tzar on September 16, 2011, 01:10:08 pm
GK

Even if you succeed in hijacking the thread to try and make infantry unable to jump and slash at cav its not gonna happen the dev´s arent that stupid.

But lolz for trying  :D
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 01:10:54 pm
Jump shooting is what made kiting so retarded. It made it impossible for anyone without a shield to kill a half-decent archer. Normal kiting is fine, even though I don't think that archers should be able to run so fast. But it's pretty well balanced now.

Who said that jump shooting will stop kiting?

The devs did not state their reason for removing jumpshooting. I'm like purdy gosh darn sure that they didn't do it for it "looking stupid" but for balance reasons.

Quite a lot of people have said jump shooting will stop kiting or near enough make it useless. Mostly infantry seem to be arguing that. Whilst a lot of archers have just said they will run for a bit longer just to gain the extra distance they need rather than jump shooting.

Archers usually run so fast because most inf wears heavier armour. It's not overly to do with athletics. I have 24 agi but 0 ath in my HA and can out run 90% of inf in my steppe armour. I'm not sure how you could change that to affect specifically archers when it's simply an armour thing.

Even if you succeed in hijacking the thread to try and make infantry unable to jump and slash at cav its not gonna happen the dev´s arent that stupid.

It's got nothing to do with that Tzar. As I stated in my other post.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 01:12:59 pm
Quite a lot of people have said jump shooting will stop kiting or near enough make it useless. Mostly infantry seem to be arguing that. Whilst a lot of archers have just said they will run for a bit longer just to gain the extra distance they need rather than jump shooting.

Archers usually run so fast because most inf wears heavier armour. It's not overly to do with athletics. I have 24 agi but 0 ath in my HA and can out run 90% of inf in my steppe armour.

It's got nothing to do with that Tzar. As I stated in my other post.

Ok, quote "quite a lot of people." You've already shown that you put words into people's mouths, so forgive me for being skeptical.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 01:13:39 pm
Archery is doing fine, on Pecores right now the whole fucking server is ranged nearly, hell even Atze's using his xbow alt.  Who needs to jump when the end of the rounds in cRPG look like this these days?  Oh and the yellow team?  ALL ranged. 

I'm last guy alive.  From left to right, the firing squad.
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 01:21:45 pm
Ok, quote "quite a lot of people." You've already shown that you put words into people's mouths, so forgive me for being skeptical.

Hell just see Tzars post in reply to mine on the last page where he thinks that jumpshooting makes kiting 10x more effective. It doesn't.

Archery is doing fine, on Pecores right now the whole fucking server is ranged nearly, hell even Atze's using his xbow alt.  Who needs to jump when the end of the rounds in cRPG look like this these days?  Oh and the yellow team?  ALL ranged.

That's why I frequently avoid pecores...it's always like that for some reason. Lots of very good archers on there as well as bad ones  :|
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 01:22:34 pm
Hell just see Tzars post in reply to mine on the last page.

Uh. What about them? Tzar's posts on the last page do not say this will stop archers from kiting.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 01:24:21 pm
Uh. What about them? Tzar's posts on the last page do not say this will stop archers from kiting.

No but from his post he still seems to think that removing jump shooting will magically give infantry a chance to fight back. Which suggests archers either won't be able to kite, or they will stop.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 01:25:44 pm
Kiting is fine so long as you are running to your team, if you the last alive then there should be a rule against kiting.

This.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 01:25:47 pm
No but from his post he still seems to think that removing jump shooting will magically give infantry a chance to fight back. Which suggests archers either won't be able to kite, or they will stop.

Wait, what was your original argument again? You seem to have lost whatever point you might've had.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 01:29:45 pm
Wait, what was your original argument again? You seem to have lost whatever point you might've had.

Yes because you keep picking on random little points rather than sticking to the main point.

The main and original point being that all jump attacks should be removed if they are going to be at all. And just to throw it out there so that I'm not lobbying, I don't mind not being able to attack whilst jumping on my horse.

I just think you can't remove one without removing all. Even from a balance perspective.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 01:31:26 pm
Yes because you keep picking on random little points rather than sticking to the main point.

The main and original point being that all jump attacks should be removed if they are going to be at all. And just to throw it out there so that I'm not lobbying, I don't mind not being able to attack whilst jumping on my horse.

I just think you can't remove one without removing all. Even from a balance perspective.

No because you keep making claims that have no factual basis. Tzar saying that jump shooting made kiting archers 10x better at killing infantry while kiting somehow translates to archers not being able to kite at all for you, for example.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 01:33:33 pm
No because you keep making claims that have no factual basis. Tzar saying that jump shooting made kiting archers 10x better at killing infantry while kiting somehow translates to archers not being able to kite at all for you, for example.

So read through my random claims. It's not as if 100's of people on this forum don't do it. Like quoting random statistics that they've made up in their head.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 01:35:10 pm
So read through my random claims. It's not as if 100's of people on this forum don't do it. Like quoting random statistics that they've made up in their head.

Your defense for lying is "other people do it too"? H'okay.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Prpavi on September 16, 2011, 01:37:22 pm
Is this just me or has there been another archery nerf, as if there has not been enough already. Such BS.

Bitchslap for you!

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Malaclypse on September 16, 2011, 01:37:43 pm
Kiting is fine so long as you are running to your team, if you the last alive then there should be a rule against kiting.

You can't kite unless your enemy lets you. This goes for ranged and backpedaling melee.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 01:37:52 pm
Your defense for lying is "other people do it too"? H'okay.

Meh it's an internet forum. Few arguments on any internet forum have any form of factual basis. It's all opinion. I don't count opinion (seeing as saying quite a lot is entirely a subjective quantity, as are reading different things from posts) as lying.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 01:39:13 pm
Meh it's an internet forum. Few arguments on any internet forum have any form of factual basis. It's all opinion. I don't count opinion (seeing as saying quite a lot is entirely a subjective quantity, as are reading different things from posts) as lying.

It's not an opinion when you say that X has said Y when X has not said Y. That's a lie.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 01:40:42 pm
It's not an opinion when you say that X has said Y when X has not said Y. That's a lie.

No...it depends on how you interpret something. The same way passages in a bible can be interpreted many different ways. Not everything is clear cut and people rarely write things to be so. I simply interpreted Tzars post as thinking Kiting would pretty much be useless and finished now.

Edit:

Holy crap this a massive derailment. I'm done with this ridiculous argument now.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 01:45:34 pm
No...it depends on how you interpret something. The same way passages in a bible can be interpreted many different ways. Not everything is clear cut and people rarely write things to be so. I simply interpreted Tzars post as thinking Kiting would pretty much be useless and finished now.

This isn't the bible and most of the posters in this thread are still quite alive I'd hope, and therefore you can't simply go and decide what people meant. Tzar did not say what you claimed he said. You can admit you were wrong, but you can't go and say "BUT I CAN CHOOSE TO BELIEVE HE SAID THIS! IT'S A MATTER OF BELIEF DUDE, I CAN JUST BELIEVE HIS WORDS TO BE DIFFERENT!"

Frankly, I hope you're trolling because if you are not, you've lost the ways of logic bro.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 01:51:19 pm
This isn't the bible and most of the posters in this thread are still quite alive I'd hope, and therefore you can't simply go and decide what people meant. Tzar did not say what you claimed he said. You can admit you were wrong, but you can't go and say "BUT I CAN CHOOSE TO BELIEVE HE SAID THIS! IT'S A MATTER OF BELIEF DUDE, I CAN JUST BELIEVE HIS WORDS TO BE DIFFERENT!"

Frankly, I hope you're trolling because if you are not, you've lost the ways of logic bro.

It's not a matter of belief. It's a matter of interpretation. And it's not deciding what people mean. It would take far to long a post to explain to you the ins and outs of this, as it is a fundamental aspect of human behaviour in every aspect of life. But you obviously don't quite understand it, or I am not conveying it simply enough for you and I'm not going to write a long explanation. So like I said. I am done with this argument because it's a massive derailment and a pointless argument.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 01:52:58 pm
It's not a matter of belief. It's a matter of interpretation. And it's not deciding what people mean. It would take far to long a post to explain to you the ins and outs of this, as it is a fundamental aspect of human behaviour. But you obviously don't quite understand it, or I am not conveying it simply enough for you. So like I said. I am done with this thread because it's a massive derailment and a pointless argument.

I interpret your message as you saying you're a cross-dresser.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Malaclypse on September 16, 2011, 01:54:46 pm
I am very sad to see that this also effects shooting while falling, which is in my eyes different from jumping : ( No more drive by suicide shots with the ol' Arbalest I guess. Although I did find a new auto-reload bug for X-bows as a result of the new system, hooray!
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Jambi on September 16, 2011, 02:03:29 pm
Ok so thats another archery nerf. How about nerfing weapon swings while jumping also ? Especially overhead jump swing... that also seems unrealistic etc etc QQ

or maybe instead of nerfing archers, actually fix bugs? like the arrow pick up bug etc?

Still havent learned, adding more bullshit content to a game thats already full of bugs

And do you realise that nerfing jumpdraws.. actually buff the faster bows again, by giving them a big advantage over slower bows ?
Also the shooting over a wall, with xbowers and thorwers while jumping ? not possible for archers anymore either.
You didnt nerf 1 thing... you nerfed ALOT more

lmao i think chadz and alot of you other noobs should srsly L2P.
7/10 people still outrun me... while they having 5 times more the weight in armor then me.

And no, im not butthurt.... just dissapointed in the community again.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: sWalker on September 16, 2011, 02:19:48 pm
Congrats on the correct change chadz and co...now it's time to give us archers back some of our arrow speed.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Chasey on September 16, 2011, 02:21:06 pm
surprised at how quick this was implemented, wasnt this only brought up like yesterday? Devs not wasting time ,i sense big changes coming soon :!:
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 02:27:37 pm
(click to show/hide)

Cos you didn't feel OP enough when you're top score of every map already?
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Casimir on September 16, 2011, 02:30:07 pm
I don't see jambi top the scoreboards every map, and even so jambi is a damn fine archer and that's why he tops scoreboards regularly.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 02:31:13 pm
I don't see jambi top the scoreboards every map, and even so jambi is a damn fine archer and that's why he tops scoreboards regularly.

was trolling mainly, he's a damn fine archer  8-)
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Chasey on September 16, 2011, 02:32:11 pm
Also the shooting over a wall, with xbowers and thorwers while jumping ? not possible for archers anymore either.
I dont think xbows can do that either now.Think all ranged cant jump shoot.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: ThePoopy on September 16, 2011, 02:45:02 pm
ahahahaha :lol:
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Lansamur on September 16, 2011, 02:48:40 pm
Thanks for killing the mod again. I sense cmp's and Urist's hands in here.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 02:53:00 pm
I don't see what's a big deal here.

But yes mod is dying, and that has something to do with hackers and exploiters...
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 02:53:13 pm
Murderers, both of them. They have c-RPG's blood on their hands nao.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Arrowblood on September 16, 2011, 03:00:19 pm
 Buff the shot speed form long and warbow its enough that you guys killed harchery.
every nerf kills the game more and more.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: CaptainQuantum on September 16, 2011, 03:04:18 pm
I don't see the jump shot removal as much of an issue, I am doing fine with it. If cav gets some kind of maneuverability nerf then it should be balanced.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 03:10:38 pm
If cav gets some kind of maneuverability nerf then it should be balanced.

Speed nerfed.
Lance rotation nerfed. Inbetween Heavy lance nerfed then buffed.
Upkeep is a nerf in itself.

Really, gonna campaign for another cav nerf?  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 03:13:03 pm
Everyone campaigns for nerfs for everything. It's getting a bit silly.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Arrowblood on September 16, 2011, 03:17:48 pm
give back the old crpg when everithing was OP. but with upkeep.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 03:17:56 pm
Everyone campaigns for nerfs for everything. It's getting a bit silly.

It is, it is.

We should prolly just accept what we're given by the devs, no whine, no QQ, if they destroy your class or ruin the mod in the long run, just go down the pub, think about how it really is gonna affect your life in the long run over a beer or 2.

We all play this for free with little or no input by the majority, into the actual making (coding, balancing etc etc) of the mod, yet it's the majority who QQ about shit.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: CaptainQuantum on September 16, 2011, 03:21:35 pm
The maneuver nerf was just to balance with the ranged, I wasn't lobbying for a full on nerf, just one to allow archery a little chance since they won't stand much currently. I am of course not an archer so it's not for myself.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Dezilagel on September 16, 2011, 03:24:30 pm
Why are the people arguing for removal of the melee jumpswing bringing up realism as an argument when that obviously has nothing to do with the jumpshooting removal? You could argue that jumpslashing should be removed because of various reasons (such as being too powerful vs. cav or whatever), but to say that "jumpshooting was removed cuz of realism QQ, jumpslashing should be removed too!!!oneoneone" is just something you obviously made up.

Good Change, archers can still run back to their own lines, can still kite slow infantry but doesn't autowin as easily vs inf anymore.

Next - I hope they do something about roofcamping.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the other hand, something I could agree with is giving archers better melee weapon options - fighting archers has (for me) never been fun, (spend 1 min chasing after them getting kited, not fun, but sneaking up on them oneshotting is not fun either, although satisfactory) giving them some means of better defending themselves in melee might just make fighting archers interesting, with kiting nerfed.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 03:32:13 pm
To all those archers who are gunna miss jumpspinshooting, there are a couple of options available:

1.
Play Native.

OR

2.
Go find the phonebook.
Find your local archery club.
Pay the membership.
Don't do what everyone else is doing, instead walk to within 3m of the target.
Suddenly run back towards everyone else, jumpspinshooting as you do that.
Listen to the laughter as they ridicule you for doing something no archer has ever done before.
Feel the hard pavement hit you as they kick you out.
Hear the slam of the door.
Realise it's all over.


Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: eulenkaese on September 16, 2011, 03:37:25 pm
As I played my archer, the jumpshot bored me to hell. An annoying mechanism, I'm thankfull it's gone ;P
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: _GTX_ on September 16, 2011, 03:40:17 pm
finally! maybe we actually have a chance of catching them now.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: chadz on September 16, 2011, 03:41:40 pm
or maybe instead of nerfing archers, actually fix bugs? like the arrow pick up bug etc?

I'm giving you a friendly advice here, free of charge, that might lead to you looking less like an idiot, both here and in reallife, if you happen to use the same argument there.

You see, that argumentation is totally bullshit. It's like saying "why do we spend money on space travel when there are still people hungry in the world". "Why do we spend money on art when there's still global warming". "Why do we spend money on vacation when there's still a window broken in the shed".

I'll let you figure the answer out yourself. If you fail to come up with an answer, just say so, I'll help you out further.

Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 03:41:57 pm
finally! maybe we actually have a chance of catching them now.  :rolleyes:

A happy 2h'er right there  8-)

See, you even made GTX happy, good day all round.

edit: jambi got pwnt
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 03:59:18 pm
chadz, you don't understand. Jambi has all the answers, and they're always the right ones. If you come to a different conclusion it's obviously because you are wrong.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: CaptainQuantum on September 16, 2011, 03:59:37 pm
If they turn and run though 2h are screwed, I tested with Jambi earlier the run speed of each of us, him with 7 athletics, me with 8. I had 17.5 weight on and still couldn't keep up with him. So if they run, GTX won't be happy since he uses 18/21 I believe.

I was speaking to Jambi earlier, he did say his post was a little ragey. But hes a good archer and will adapt, the reaction from Baldrider upon hearing this was far better though. :)
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 04:01:04 pm
So it's not a nerf at all then? Wow imagine that. Even archers are schizophrenic, about half don't seem to give a shit and the other half you'd think their baby daughters got raped.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 16, 2011, 04:02:21 pm
They should have melee attacks cancel while jumping too then. Make it even.


we should throw our 2h greatswords/morningstars/greatmauls ( :shock:) with pinpoint precision over 50 meters... make it even.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 04:03:14 pm

we should throw our 2h greatswords/morningstars/greatmauls ( :shock:) with pinpoint precision over 50 meters... make it even.

good point Carrado
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 16, 2011, 04:06:14 pm
finally! maybe we actually have a chance of catching them now.  :rolleyes:

you mad? only a ninja can catch an already far archer with 8ATH, light gear and weightless bows (warbow weight is 1.5)

you will still not catch em but at least archers will not kite soloing an entire team.

good point Carrado

i'm just trolling but "post nerf rage" countertrolling is an old tradition  :lol:
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: CaptainQuantum on September 16, 2011, 04:06:31 pm
This would make us all happy, throwing great mauls which crush through shields. If you reach PT 14 you get to throw a Phyrex.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Dexxtaa on September 16, 2011, 04:20:04 pm
Good mod so far, devs. Keep up the good work. There's a reason I still play this game, and it's the changes.

I guarantee you a successful game like TF2  (and this) wouldn't be doing so well if it didn't keep changing. If it wasn't people bitching about the change, it'll be people bitching about the lack of it.

tl;dr THIS At fifteen, I had the will to  learn ; at thirty, I could stand ; at forty, I had no  doubts ; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding ;  at sixty, my ears were opened ; at seventy, I could  do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the  square..
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: B3RS3RK on September 16, 2011, 04:22:31 pm
Slashing with a Sword is quite possible while jumping(Not very effectively, really, but its possible) while its REALLY hard to draw an arrow, turn around and shoot precisely with a bow whilst jumping.


Also it was OP.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 04:29:56 pm
This would make us all happy, throwing great mauls which crush through shields. If you reach PT 14 you get to throw a Phyrex.

Deployable Phyrex :D

We need engineer class in this mod, I want to assemble and deploy Phyrexes, Bjords, Chases and other assassin's to get kills cause I'm uncapable to so on my own :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Tot. on September 16, 2011, 04:31:13 pm
Good mod so far, devs. Keep up the good work. There's a reason I still play this game, and it's the changes.

I guarantee you a successful game like TF2  (and this) wouldn't be doing so well if it didn't keep changing. If it wasn't people bitching about the change, it'll be people bitching about the lack of it.

tl;dr THIS At fifteen, I had the will to  learn ; at thirty, I could stand ; at forty, I had no  doubts ; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding ;  at sixty, my ears were opened ; at seventy, I could  do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the  square..

So you think they twist things periodically to make certain groups of people happy and playing and others bitchy and in need to actively spam forums for a change? That would mean the mod will be always alive. Hmmm.....  :wink:

Not bad, devs.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 04:37:59 pm
Slashing with a Sword is quite possible while jumping(Not very effectively, really, but its possible) while its REALLY hard to draw an arrow, turn around and shoot precisely with a bow whilst jumping.


Also it was OP.

I've never fought with a sword IRL before, so I have no idea if this is accurate at all: http://www.wikihow.com/Win-a-Swordfight (http://www.wikihow.com/Win-a-Swordfight)

"Never jump or take both feet off the ground. Try for 2 feet at all times. While jumping may look cool, it will get you killed as you cannot change direction in midair and your balance is gone. You are using a sword as well and therefore you need extra stability and balance. Keeping your feet planted and on the ground is very important. Also, when stepping slide your feet instead of lifting them, this way you can change direction or plant them quickly."

"Let your opponent do all the jumping and running around; if you do you will wear out fast which is extremely fatal."

Only one of those is applicable in Warband, since there is no stamina system. If there was no way of facing a different direction after you jump (something you can do in Warband that is kind of in defiance of all laws of physics) it would be "realistic". There's no "air time" when you jump in cRPG, in the sense that you can start a 360 degree spin after having already left the ground. Again, REALISM IS A HORRIBLE STANDARD FOR BALANCING, I'm just interested in the side discussions focusing on the issue, since so many people think that jump shotting got nerfed on the basis of realism, and feel that doing the same to melee/cav would be equitable. I don't think it has any bearing on balancing in any case.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: B3RS3RK on September 16, 2011, 04:47:22 pm
I said Possible, not advisable.

I am sure jumpshooting didnt get nerfed because of realism, but its a nice explanation.Truth is, Jumpshooting is horribly op, Jumpslashing indeed isnt.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Dahobo on September 16, 2011, 05:00:38 pm
Well if we are basing this game on real life then how come people can swing weapons underwater,why cant people swim,why dont people drown, why don't people in plate get tired, how come crossbow speed is so fast, why dont you actually reach into your quiver when reloading, blah blah more ranting and stuff

This is a game its supposed to be balanced and fun so deal with it.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: _GTX_ on September 16, 2011, 05:23:48 pm
you mad? only a ninja can catch an already far archer with 8ATH, light gear and weightless bows (warbow weight is 1.5)

you will still not catch em but at least archers will not kite soloing an entire team.


Im aware of that, but atleast this shows that the devs actually seen this problem. And how op it is. Since all infantry is unable to kill kiting archers.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Momo on September 16, 2011, 05:28:53 pm
NO MOAR FUCKING JUMPING ARCHERS
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Christo on September 16, 2011, 05:33:03 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


We only need to take care of the roofcamping problem, and maybe give the archers some compensation.

I'd play a lot more, for an example.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 16, 2011, 05:34:05 pm
I've never fought with a sword IRL before, so I have no idea if this is accurate at all: http://www.wikihow.com/Win-a-Swordfight (http://www.wikihow.com/Win-a-Swordfight)

"Never jump or take both feet off the ground. Try for 2 feet at all times. While jumping may look cool, it will get you killed as you cannot change direction in midair and your balance is gone. You are using a sword as well and therefore you need extra stability and balance. Keeping your feet planted and on the ground is very important. Also, when stepping slide your feet instead of lifting them, this way you can change direction or plant them quickly."

"Let your opponent do all the jumping and running around; if you do you will wear out fast which is extremely fatal."

nothing new.. in this game, if you jump when engaged in melee, you surely give a free split second to your enemy to go behind/on your flanks. if you jump under ranged fire is even worse...

so?

jump slashing is neither OP, abnormal or retarded... is just risky.
jump shooting instead is the best way to keep the range while pinpoint shooting. countless times i survived a good amount of infantry by kiting and jumpthrowing with my thrower alt. is effortless.

also jumping with a draw weight of 810 Newtons (160Lb/ft... welsh longbow)? only chuck norris can do that.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 05:36:12 pm
FFS, a good archer is a good archer.  Eu1, right now:

(click to show/hide)

He don't need no jumpshootin'

He just good.

If you need it to win, you suck.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 16, 2011, 05:36:31 pm
Well if we are basing this game on real life then how come people can swing weapons underwater,why cant people swim,why dont people drown, why don't people in plate get tired, how come crossbow speed is so fast, why dont you actually reach into your quiver when reloading, blah blah more ranting and stuff

This is a game its supposed to be balanced and fun so deal with it.

you forgot "why when a player die in battle don't get a heartattack IRL?" would be cool.. no more bitching around... TKs will be punished by national law about murder... could work. with WSE we can!
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Sergee on September 16, 2011, 06:19:05 pm
YAAA BUDDY!!!
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Dom.Miguel on September 16, 2011, 06:29:19 pm
ok remove jumping from heavy armours and add more weight penalty on running or spriting
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Fartface on September 16, 2011, 07:20:23 pm
I'm more than comfortable killing people in melee, even with the hammer, but now I'll just run without shooting until the infantry doesn't want to follow me anymore, just to be annoying. :lol:
damn right agree on this:D
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 07:31:52 pm
Just  do what Tears of Destiny did for a while, and make a 12/30 10 ATHL 4PD 3WM bowman and lol around the battlefield doing close range shots, then laugh at all the lunatics who try to catch you. Remember, you can run even faster if you sheath your bow!  :lol:
Oh.... fun times...
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Fartface on September 16, 2011, 07:33:15 pm
just when im playing archer.
i manage to do just about fine.
hardly used jump shot and if your an good archer u dont need to use it.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Osiris on September 16, 2011, 07:35:39 pm
Archery is so badly nerfed that if you go to eu1 or pecroes etc late at night at least 50% are archers it must suck! A couple of archers on a server of around 30 players is so nerfed that they can rape the enemy team and make them rage quit! (yes it happend ^^)

Archery isnt exactly weak so get over it :P go talk to cav and older throwers about being nerfed :P at least you can stand and spin around shooting unlike cav :P
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 07:41:58 pm
Archery is so badly nerfed that if you go to eu1 or pecroes etc late at night at least 50% are archers it must suck! A couple of archers on a server of around 30 players is so nerfed that they can rape the enemy team and make them rage quit! (yes it happend ^^)

Archery isnt exactly weak so get over it :P go talk to cav and older throwers about being nerfed :P at least you can stand and spin around shooting unlike cav :P

Yeah you tell 'em bro  8-)

oh and...FUCK YOU STRUDOG

love you really
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 16, 2011, 08:55:51 pm
A couple three tempLOLar archer alts + crossbowman + heavy cav clanstacking on a server of around 30 6 players is so nerfed that they can rape the enemy team random infantry ( :lol:) and make them rage quit! (yes it happend ^^) (guess why... hint: not for the "rape" but for the annoying style)
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Aseldo on September 16, 2011, 10:24:47 pm
If archers can't charge a shot while jumping lets see what else shouldn't be allowed while jumping:

Jumping then slicing with a 2-sworded sword, these things were bloody heavy.
Cav jumping with plated armor, again heavy.
pole-arm lol stab while jumping backwards.

Archers are gonna need a lot more athletics now because kiting is virtually impossible now without 5+ athletics. This forces some archers to have less PD which is again A NERF. Thanks
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 10:32:55 pm
If archers can't charge a shot while jumping lets see what else shouldn't be allowed while jumping:

Jumping then slicing with a 2-sworded sword, these things were bloody heavy.
Cav jumping with plated armor, again heavy.
pole-arm lol stab while jumping backwards.

Archers are gonna need a lot more athletics now because kiting is virtually impossible now without 5+ athletics. This forces some archers to have less PD which is again A NERF. Thanks

http://www.myarmoury.com/review_at1592.html

No, they weren't heavy.  Do research first.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Mtemtko on September 16, 2011, 10:34:06 pm
my crpg today :

Spawn.
run towards the fight.
Get shot 4 times in 3 seconds and die.

Spawn.
random xbow bolt to face.

Spawn.
Get machine gunned down by archers again.

-GTX.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Leesin on September 16, 2011, 10:34:43 pm
I always lol inside and facepalm whenever I see someone say two handed swords were heavy.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 10:35:01 pm
my crpg today :

Spawn a bunch of times and get unluckily slaughtered

-GTX.

Today was just not your day, was it?
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 10:35:23 pm
I always lol inside and facepalm whenever I see someone say two handed swords were heavy.

 :D me too, me too
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on September 16, 2011, 10:36:02 pm
Ok so thats another archery nerf. How about nerfing weapon swings while jumping also ? Especially overhead jump swing... that also seems unrealistic etc etc QQ

or maybe instead of nerfing archers, actually fix bugs? like the arrow pick up bug etc?

Still havent learned, adding more bullshit content to a game thats already full of bugs

And do you realise that nerfing jumpdraws.. actually buff the faster bows again, by giving them a big advantage over slower bows ?
Also the shooting over a wall, with xbowers and thorwers while jumping ? not possible for archers anymore either.
You didnt nerf 1 thing... you nerfed ALOT more

lmao i think chadz and alot of you other noobs should srsly L2P.
7/10 people still outrun me... while they having 5 times more the weight in armor then me.

And no, im not butthurt.... just dissapointed in the community again.


I totally agree with what Jambi said.

And chadz, your answer on the thing with "take care about bugs instead of putting new stuff in" is just stupid, sorry :/
Expected more from you...


I always lol inside and facepalm whenever I see someone say two handed swords were heavy.
:D me too, me too

Any of you guys ever had a sword in your hand?

Ofcourse it's possible to jump with a sword and it's also possible to swing, but you hardly do any damage or whatever with it and you hardly block and the possibility that you stumble because of the weight affecting your jump is very high.
We are talking about european swords, not about asian sabres :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Aseldo on September 16, 2011, 10:37:02 pm
http://www.myarmoury.com/review_at1592.html

No, they weren't heavy.  Do research first.

Well I've felt some that were heavy...but I guess I stand corrected.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 10:38:19 pm

I totally agree with what Jambi said.

And chadz, your answer on the thing with "take care about bugs instead of putting new stuff in" is just stupid, sorry :/
Expected more from you...

Take it up with management.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Dezilagel on September 16, 2011, 10:39:25 pm
And chadz, your answer on the thing with "take care about bugs instead of putting new stuff in" is just stupid, sorry :/
Expected more from you...

Bwahah...pfff...

Oh god, can't decide if this is funny or just sad  :|
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Aseldo on September 16, 2011, 10:40:19 pm
I'll let this one slide but if archery gets nerfed again within the next 6 months I'm switching classes.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Anti on September 16, 2011, 10:40:22 pm
I've never fought with a sword IRL before, so I have no idea if this is accurate at all: http://www.wikihow.com/Win-a-Swordfight (http://www.wikihow.com/Win-a-Swordfight)

"Never jump or take both feet off the ground. Try for 2 feet at all times. While jumping may look cool, it will get you killed as you cannot change direction in midair and your balance is gone. You are using a sword as well and therefore you need extra stability and balance. Keeping your feet planted and on the ground is very important. Also, when stepping slide your feet instead of lifting them, this way you can change direction or plant them quickly."

"Let your opponent do all the jumping and running around; if you do you will wear out fast which is extremely fatal."

Only one of those is applicable in Warband, since there is no stamina system. If there was no way of facing a different direction after you jump (something you can do in Warband that is kind of in defiance of all laws of physics) it would be "realistic". There's no "air time" when you jump in cRPG, in the sense that you can start a 360 degree spin after having already left the ground. Again, REALISM IS A HORRIBLE STANDARD FOR BALANCING, I'm just interested in the side discussions focusing on the issue, since so many people think that jump shotting got nerfed on the basis of realism, and feel that doing the same to melee/cav would be equitable. I don't think it has any bearing on balancing in any case.

I just want to point out, in an actual game, Jumping will likely get you killed too. I fail to see why people are bitching about jump slashing. I mean, unless you totally want cav to get a free couch off anyone without a polearm, go right the hell on. Lobby for your ridiculous nerf.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 10:41:52 pm
And chadz, your answer on the thing with "take care about bugs instead of putting new stuff in" is just stupid, sorry :/
Expected more from you...



What are you, Fench?
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Leesin on September 16, 2011, 11:16:28 pm

Any of you guys ever had a sword in your hand?

Ofcourse it's possible to jump with a sword and it's also possible to swing, but you hardly do any damage or whatever with it and you hardly block and the possibility that you stumble because of the weight affecting your jump is very high.
We are talking about european swords, not about asian sabres :rolleyes:

Yes, I have held a sword that isn't a cheap piece of replica shit that weighs more than a real, balanced sword. Even the biggest european swords only weighed about 8lbs, wielded with two hands by someone who has trained for year after year with it, it isn't going to feel heavy at all. And 8lbs is the most extreme,alot of the larger two handed swords weighed between 4-6lbs.

It isn't going to effect your jumping at all, but I don't really see the issue here, jumping ingame in a melee battle results in death most of the time unless you are fighting an unskilled opponent, anyone with an ounce of skill will easily defend or counter such stupid attacks. Where as jump shooting with a bow was beyond ridiculous and allowed infinite kiting, it is much more believeable to jump and swing with a sword than it is to jump, knock an arrow, pull back bowstring and fire upon landing.

Also, recently watched an excellent documentary where they demonstrated alot of stuff, like a guy in a 40lb suit of full plate armour made to fit him, was running across a field with a sword at a decent pace, was very agile and could easily run up to and mount his own horse.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 16, 2011, 11:25:55 pm

I totally agree with what Jambi said.

And chadz, your answer on the thing with "take care about bugs instead of putting new stuff in" is just stupid, sorry :/
Expected more from you...


Any of you guys ever had a sword in your hand?

Ofcourse it's possible to jump with a sword and it's also possible to swing, but you hardly do any damage or whatever with it and you hardly block and the possibility that you stumble because of the weight affecting your jump is very high.
We are talking about european swords, not about asian sabres :rolleyes:

i have a kind of greatsword made by a local smith. is not keen but is made with the blade in stainless steel, iron hilt, iron grip covered by several layers of synthetic leather. weights about 1.7 kilograms and is 118 centimeters long. sometimes i go in the garden random swinging around. today i tried to jump forward and side slash. is possible BUT you can't stop the swing mid air (i think it's because you need waist force together with firm legs on the ground). doing a overhead jumping is easy. swinging sides is a bit weird but doable... without stopping it (like unbalanced weapons) and the thrust is comfortable BUT in the landing part. thrusting in the first part of the jump feel a bit stupid.

i don't have a cam so don't troll me about "no proof".

so the deal could be:

jump and side swing = 50% less dmg and speed (or something like the mounted 2h penalty modifier) + UNBALANCED while in air
jump and overhead = no modifications
jump and stab = 50% less dmg and speed in the first part of the jump, no modifications in the last part of the jump.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Leshma on September 16, 2011, 11:27:50 pm
Can you revert this change as well? :D
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 16, 2011, 11:31:58 pm
Yes, I have held a sword that isn't a cheap piece of replica shit that weighs more than a real, balanced sword. Even the biggest european swords only weighed about 8lbs, wielded with two hands by someone who has trained for year after year with it, it isn't going to feel heavy at all. And 8lbs is the most extreme,alot of the larger two handed swords weighed between 4-6lbs.

It isn't going to effect your jumping at all, but I don't really see the issue here, jumping ingame in a melee battle results in death most of the time unless you are fighting an unskilled opponent, anyone with an ounce of skill will easily defend or counter such stupid attacks. Where as jump shooting with a bow was beyond ridiculous and allowed infinite kiting, it is much more believeable to jump and swing with a sword than it is to jump, knock an arrow, pull back bowstring and fire upon landing.

Also, recently watched an excellent documentary where they demonstrated alot of stuff, like a guy in a 40lb suit of full plate armour made to fit him, was running across a field with a sword at a decent pace, was very agile and could easily run up to and mount his own horse.

exactly... and 40lbs = 18 kilograms.. so like a rus scale armor / lamellar armor. a full plate would weight about 55-60lbs. the game measurements aren't so wrong. the sword of war is very similar to the one i have and is nearly 2-3 centimeters longer. i don't have a scale so i can't weight it but i think it's around 1.5-1.8 kgs. (3.3-3.9 lbs)
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: polkafranzi on September 16, 2011, 11:38:23 pm
exactly... and 40lbs = 18 kilograms.. so like a rus scale armor / lamellar armor. a full plate would weight about 55-60lbs. the game measurements aren't so wrong. the sword of war is very similar to the one i have and is nearly 2-3 centimeters longer. i don't have a scale so i can't weight it but i think it's around 1.5-1.8 kgs. (3.3-3.9 lbs)

So YOU killed Meredith Kercher...

Too soon?
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 16, 2011, 11:52:29 pm
So YOU killed Meredith Kercher...

Too soon?

yeah with a ornamental sword... a scrap tire iron bar could hurt more.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on September 17, 2011, 12:07:16 am
NERF CAV NERF CAV NERF CAV
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Fips on September 17, 2011, 12:26:49 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: polkafranzi on September 17, 2011, 12:30:32 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


tbh that looks kinda OP, even though it's nerf

also, stop spamming this thread
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Oberyn on September 17, 2011, 12:36:19 am
I just want to point out, in an actual game, Jumping will likely get you killed too. I fail to see why people are bitching about jump slashing. I mean, unless you totally want cav to get a free couch off anyone without a polearm, go right the hell on. Lobby for your ridiculous nerf.

Are people godamn retarded? Don't you have any reading comprehension whatsoever? Learn to read fucking posts you pointlessly raging moron.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on September 17, 2011, 12:53:30 am
i have a kind of greatsword made by a local smith. is not keen but is made with the blade in stainless steel, iron hilt, iron grip covered by several layers of synthetic leather. weights about 1.7 kilograms and is 118 centimeters long. sometimes i go in the garden random swinging around. today i tried to jump forward and side slash. is possible BUT you can't stop the swing mid air (i think it's because you need waist force together with firm legs on the ground). doing a overhead jumping is easy. swinging sides is a bit weird but doable... without stopping it (like unbalanced weapons) and the thrust is comfortable BUT in the landing part. thrusting in the first part of the jump feel a bit stupid.

i don't have a cam so don't troll me about "no proof".


I believe you have tried all that, but now think how it would be with an enemy who blocks your hit or you really aiming for someone and the guy dodging so you just miss. Hitting through the air is one thing. But aiming for something and then not hitting cause of a dodging target is something completely different. I know what I'm talking about as I'm doing martial arts for more than 12 years now.

Hard to explain everything on my mind in English, can't we just speak German?^^
If you jump and a person blocks your hit, all your energy is stopped or redirected to another direction. As you are midair, you have no ground to get a stable position, means you are like a ball getting a hit midair. You change your direction and the chance you land on your feet without stumbling or falling is very small in that case. ---> makes it more or less impossible to use that in a fight ;)

What happens when you jump and hit with all your power and your target is just ducking under your swing so it continues, you can figure our yourself^^


Fact is, jumphitting might be possible, but it is useless and not doable while fighting
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: ThePoopy on September 17, 2011, 01:03:34 am
i really dont see why this change was made or why ppl rage so much about it, havnt changed enything
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 17, 2011, 02:01:47 am
I believe you have tried all that, but now think how it would be with an enemy who blocks your hit or you really aiming for someone and the guy dodging so you just miss. Hitting through the air is one thing. But aiming for something and then not hitting cause of a dodging target is something completely different. I know what I'm talking about as I'm doing martial arts for more than 12 years now.

Hard to explain everything on my mind in English, can't we just speak German?^^
If you jump and a person blocks your hit, all your energy is stopped or redirected to another direction. As you are midair, you have no ground to get a stable position, means you are like a ball getting a hit midair. You change your direction and the chance you land on your feet without stumbling or falling is very small in that case. ---> makes it more or less impossible to use that in a fight ;)

What happens when you jump and hit with all your power and your target is just ducking under your swing so it continues, you can figure our yourself^^


Fact is, jumphitting might be possible, but it is useless and not doable while fighting

well with my past in Ju-Jitsu (Go-Ju style. even more sensible to weight shifts) i partially agree. but we're talking about men ranging from 70 to 100 kilograms wearing 20-40 kilograms of armor and weapons. So the inertia of a 90-140 kilograms object falling towards you (with gravity aid), is not exactly a "ball" you can deflect, like a middle-aged 55 kilograms jujitsu instructor dressed in cotton lashing you a mawashi-geri.

leverages and similar stuff applies to certain situations... this is not one of em. and i should know too how to use the opponent kinetic energy to my own advantage. almost all the ju-jitsu throws works that way. (specially in go-ju)

i really dont see why this change was made or why ppl rage so much about it, havnt changed enything

read the last 2-3 pages... we were talking about something to balance the archer jumpshooting nerf with some tweaking on the jumpslash system.
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Rumblood on September 17, 2011, 03:10:41 am
Just ridiculous. Just remove archery if you hate it so much.  :mad:
Title: Re: Canceling draw when jumping
Post by: Miley on September 17, 2011, 07:32:15 am
As far as I know, the ATS servers and the "nonofficial ones" still let you jump and shoot/draw.