cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Oberyn on September 15, 2011, 11:49:50 am

Title: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Oberyn on September 15, 2011, 11:49:50 am
As stated in thread title. If it's doable with WSE make it impossible to draw a bow when jumping, interrupts if already drawn. I'd bring up realism, but it's never been important when considering balance in cRPG, so I'll just say it looks completely fucking retarded when archers run away, draw their bows while running, then jump, do a 180° turn in midair and fire. If I wanted to bring up realism I'd say archers shouldn't even be able to draw their bows while sidestepping, moving forwards or backwards, but that would be a gigantic nerf.

Sadly this might encourage even more roofcamping, but archers are mostly light armored and high athletics in the first place. They can already run away fine. They don't need the ability to kite infantry like they're fucking MMO mobs.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Tzar on September 15, 2011, 11:52:20 am
Sadly this might encourage even more roofcamping, but archers are mostly light armored and high athletics in the first place. They can already run away fine. They don't need the ability to kite infantry like they're fucking MMO mobs.

Roof camping and kiting any inf that doenst have 9 ath ruins the gameplay for most 2H/pole/ even shielders...


The kiting issue could be fixed by not allowing Legolass to load hes bow while running.

I wouldnt mind to see a real person draw a bow while running and then instantly jump and turn around mid air and shoot stuff..   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Tot. on September 15, 2011, 12:00:20 pm
+1

Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Wookimonsta on September 15, 2011, 12:13:25 pm
you sir, get a wookiee-cookie
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: cmp on September 15, 2011, 12:22:12 pm
+1
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on September 15, 2011, 01:08:33 pm
good point

+1
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Christo on September 15, 2011, 01:11:10 pm
+1
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Siiem on September 15, 2011, 01:13:28 pm
+100
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Thucydides on September 15, 2011, 01:15:11 pm
+ 9000
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on September 15, 2011, 01:17:37 pm
If it's only for archers, then I don't care.

If it's for melee aswell, then as a ninja I must oppose this.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: tankmen on September 15, 2011, 01:19:58 pm
i oppose this for balance reason, if an archer cant kite, expect no bowmen every again.


THEN YOU'LL SEE HUNDREDS UPON THOUSANDS OF CROSSBOWMEN!!!


but no auto blockers they were all banned
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Siiem on September 15, 2011, 01:22:38 pm
Wtf does autoblocking have to do with this thread?
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: tankmen on September 15, 2011, 01:24:43 pm
nothing was a joke, take it a clan mate/ friend was banned?
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Oberyn on September 15, 2011, 01:25:38 pm
Well they'll still be able to kite, just not nearly as effectively. They would still outspeed most infantry, so it's just a matter of running away even further before turning around and shooting...hmm I'm not sure this is a good idea now XD. At least with the bunny hoping they sometimes misjudge the distance of enemy and get caught stupidly.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Gurnisson on September 15, 2011, 01:26:39 pm
That would be a big nerf. You would have to compensate that somehow.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: chadz on September 15, 2011, 01:29:48 pm
+1
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Oberyn on September 15, 2011, 01:32:21 pm
Two G.O.B's?! Well I'm still the one doing awesome illusions.

As far as compensation goes, if we went full realism route (i.e: no moving at all while drawing) then yes, a massive increase in accuracy and reload speed would be appropriate. Just removing bunny hoping though?...Well I'm no archer, what do people who play as archers think would be good as compensation for removing that ability?
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: marco1391 on September 15, 2011, 01:49:30 pm
That would be a big nerf. You would have to compensate that somehow.
This, archers are already close to up imo, with the limitations of not being able to roof camp and not being able to kite they would become close to useless(And I say this as a cav player)
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Christo on September 15, 2011, 01:52:35 pm
If it's only for archers, then I don't care.

If it's for melee aswell, then as a ninja I must oppose this.

Suggestion inside a suggestion:

Allow melee to use an overhead attack while jumping. It makes 'some' sense.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: cmp on September 15, 2011, 01:59:53 pm
That would be a big nerf. You would have to compensate that somehow.
what do people who play as archers think would be good as compensation for removing that ability?

We will compensate by giving them a bonus hat.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Overdriven on September 15, 2011, 02:05:12 pm
I think the jumping should stay. Being able to draw, jump, shoot is a useful way of dodging enemy cav and still doing damage to horse/them. It's not only used in kiting  :| Taking that away would be a big nerf for archers.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: cmp on September 15, 2011, 02:05:45 pm
I think the jumping should stay. Being able to draw, jump, shoot is a useful way of dodging enemy cav and still doing damage to horse/them. It's not only used in kiting  :| Taking that away would be a big nerf for archers.

No problem, we will nerf cav to compensate. Thanks for bringing this up.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Overdriven on September 15, 2011, 02:06:14 pm
No problem, we will nerf cav to compensate. Thanks for bringing this up.

O joy :rolleyes:
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Dezilagel on September 15, 2011, 02:06:27 pm
What's wrong with melee jumpattacks? O.o

This, archers are already close to up imo, with the limitations of not being able to roof camp and not being able to kite they would become close to useless(And I say this as a cav player)

Doesn't this say something about archers? An entire class dedicated to making 2/3 of the playerbase completely USELESS through easily achievable means. I'm fine with upping their acc/reloadspeed or whatever a bit (to "compensate") to see this suggestion implemented (and the one about removing ladders) - if that makes them abide the "rules" the rest of us do (i.e every player on the field poses a potential threat).

No problem, we will nerf cav to compensate. Thanks for bringing this up.

Horse Archers, you will nerf Horse Archers to compensate.  :P
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Siiem on September 15, 2011, 02:45:36 pm
No problem, we will nerf cav to compensate. Thanks for bringing this up.

Yes, makes sense. Cmp the wise.

nothing was a joke, take it a clan mate/ friend was banned?

Wat...
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: TurmoilTom on September 15, 2011, 03:06:59 pm
+ 9000

+9001
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Bobthehero on September 15, 2011, 03:47:38 pm
+1
Never kited with my archer, that wouldnt be a nerf.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: _Sebastian_ on September 15, 2011, 04:10:14 pm
If I wanted to bring up realism I'd say archers shouldn't even be able to draw their bows while sidestepping, moving forwards or backwards, but that would be a gigantic nerf.
I see you never draw a real bow...
It is possible to draw a bow while moving.

But I agree... drawing while jumping isnt realistic and if the devs are going to remove it,
then they have to disallow tincans to dance and run like hyperactive athletes.
Also the jump-attacks should been reduced by 50% in damage(you cant swing your weapon while jumping to do more damage), because of realism.
Title: (remove this post)
Post by: _Sebastian_ on September 15, 2011, 04:14:36 pm
(remove this post)
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Tzar on September 15, 2011, 04:20:20 pm
I see you never draw a real bow...
It is possible to draw a bow while moving.

But I agree... drawing while jumping isnt realistic and if the devs are going to remove it,
then they have to disallow tincans to dance and run like hyperactive athletes.
Also the jump-attacks should been reduced by 50% in damage(you cant swing your weapon while jumping to do more damage), because of realism.

+1

Agree anyone that doenst have 9 ath and wear peasent suits should be used for target pratice

chadz hire this man hes brilliant  :!:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Kenji on September 15, 2011, 04:33:10 pm
No problem, we will nerf cav to compensate. Thanks for bringing this up.
Leave us alone!

Compensate them by giving them higher wpf penalty threshold? So they can at least wear light armor with no penalty or medium armor with reduced penalty.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on September 15, 2011, 05:12:41 pm
I like the idea. And it really wouldn't nerf archers significantly. I mean, fuck, its not like an archer's sole job is to begin running away the moment enemies are spotted in the distance, and then begin jump shooting. The jump, spin, gay technique generally happens when the fights almost over, and, lacking the support of the normal, manly infantry, the archers must run away.

And they would still run, if this suggestion were implemented. They could even draw while on the run. They could still kite.

But they couldn't jump-gay.

NERF CAV NERF CAV NERF CAV (almost forgot)
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Overdriven on September 15, 2011, 06:26:59 pm
Well even if you take away jumping...you should still be able to run and draw. Either that or add a mechanism where you can notch an arrow in a separate movement and then fire. Like crossbows do. Because you sure as hell can run with an arrow notched and that would at least allow archers some degree of ability to run and fire quickly.

The problem is, realism definitely can't be used in this case. Because if we argued realism we'd give archers the ability to have a couple of sheaths of arrows, a longbow and a decent weapon like a bill hook, a pick or some basic swords with some PS added. Seeing as archers did actually have fairly decent weapons and often did get into the main fight alongside men at arms ect.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Dexxtaa on September 15, 2011, 06:31:42 pm
I think archers should be able to do this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TusQGmO-5Do
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: sWalker on September 15, 2011, 06:40:22 pm
The sWalker completely approves of this change...we, as archers, should never run.  Please ban this move completely to encourage my brothers to stand and fight...but, give us at least half of our shoot speed back so that we can compete with xbows.

+1
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Dexxtaa on September 15, 2011, 06:58:26 pm
The sWalker completely approves of this change...we, as archers, should never run.  Please ban this move completely to encourage my brothers to stand and fight...but, give us at least half of our shoot speed back so that we can compete with xbows.

+1

Why aren't there fewer running archers like yourself.

You should have an sWalker Archer Q&A thread. So people can ask you questions about archers, like why they never stand and fight etc
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Digglez on September 15, 2011, 07:05:43 pm
would be nice if OP used the correct terms.  THere is no bunny hopping in CRPG, as you get stopped after a jump and have .5-1 second cooldown on jumping again.  The term you are talking about is JUMP SHOTS

THIS is bunny hoping
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6jm9iGW2Co
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 15, 2011, 07:13:28 pm
I would be ok for jump shooting to be removed if jump slashes/stabs were also removed, for they are as equally stupid/unrealistic/anythingelseyouwanttocomplainforthesakeofanerfimtwelvewhatisthis about.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Xant on September 15, 2011, 07:18:32 pm
I would be ok for jump shooting to be removed if jump slashes/stabs were also removed, for they are as equally stupid/unrealistic/anythingelseyouwanttocomplainforthesakeofanerfimtwelvewhatisthis about.

Well, not really. Jump shooting is actually really effective. Melee jumps aren't.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Kafein on September 15, 2011, 07:19:20 pm
I would be ok for jump shooting to be removed if jump slashes/stabs were also removed, for they are as equally stupid/unrealistic/anythingelseyouwanttocomplainforthesakeofanerfimtwelvewhatisthis about.

This.


I say, we nerfed horsie maneuver, let's nerf human maneuver now. Human beings can't run at full speed then make a U-turn without slowing down on flat ground, even naked. The top running speed is probably too low, but the acceleration and turning speed are way too high  (I heard it could be possible to mod that with WSE).
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Overdriven on September 15, 2011, 07:21:42 pm
Melee jumps aren't.

Melee jumps are bloody effective  :shock: Certainly for taking down cavalry. And I've killed a fair few people with my 2h by throwing them in and catching someone off guard and in the head. They are risky, and not worth it against good opponents. But that's not to say they aren't effective if done well.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Tzar on September 15, 2011, 07:23:21 pm
Plz don't quote tears post since it makes hes gibberish visible to me  :rolleyes:

Also lol for comparing melee jump and slash to archers kiting every1 and their mother without9 ath.... another useless post from tears...
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Overdriven on September 15, 2011, 07:24:16 pm
Edit: Meh decided to stop

I will leave this thread now.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Joxer on September 15, 2011, 07:29:06 pm
Remove all actions during jumping. Going after ranged only is stupid. No block/attack chambered with any weapon while in air.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 15, 2011, 07:34:44 pm
Plz don't quote tears post since it makes hes gibberish visible to me  :rolleyes:

Also lol for comparing melee jump and slash to archers kiting every1 and their mother without9 ath.... another useless post from tears...

I did nothing to compare those two. Kiting archers will still plug you without the jump, as the jump is only needed if the target is super close or has a shield (Like when sWalker or Glen_Beck jumpshots over a huscarl). Taking out bunny hopping has nothing to do with ending kiting, as I almost never use it and manage to make those lives I kite living hell if they do not have a shield.

I simply compared jump shooting with jump slashing, both of which are equally absurd, you are the one who brung up comparing melee jump slashing with archers kiting.

Also, lol on you blocking me but people quoting me anyways... I warned you that was gonna happen when I explained to you how to block people  :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: ArchonAlarion on September 15, 2011, 08:08:26 pm
I see you never draw a real bow...
It is possible to draw a bow while moving.

But I agree... drawing while jumping isnt realistic and if the devs are going to remove it,
then they have to disallow tincans to dance and run like hyperactive athletes.
Also the jump-attacks should been reduced by 50% in damage(you cant swing your weapon while jumping to do more damage), because of realism.

Actually plate armor is pretty light, flexible, and the weight is well distributed. Knights could vault jump onto horses, do cartwheels, among other "athletic feats". In other words, the game makes plate armor use more sluggish and less protective, than it is in reality.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Oberyn on September 15, 2011, 08:18:41 pm
Jumping attacks with melee is suicide against anyone who isn't retarded or running away. And yes, that includes cav (at least with lance, probably more effective against 1h cav). If anyone is stupid enough to try and jump against me when I'm rushing headfirst towards them, all it does is put them in a situation where I know exactly where they're going to be, not unlike people who try to jump to dodge ranged. That being said, sure, take it away from melee's as well if that's the compensation archers want for losing their jump shot ability. It isn't an important part of anyone's melee repertoire anyways.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: ArchonAlarion on September 15, 2011, 08:21:29 pm
I'd rather have a short sprint or leap, than a jump move.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: mustg on September 15, 2011, 08:37:39 pm
why don't u just rape us in the ass real hardly ? i think whole c-rpg community will be really glad to watch us getting raped in the ass ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yEb6HCG7ec

and if u want realism u should change the animation of crossbow too than.. for real .. they pull their bolts from their back, and they can turn around 360 degrees while reloading.. everyone carries a xbow shielders , horsemen, two handers, polearmdudes... everyone...
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Dezilagel on September 15, 2011, 08:43:22 pm
I've killed a fair few people with my 2h

No you haven't lol

Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: ManOfWar on September 15, 2011, 08:46:59 pm
Keep the jump slash for melee, it has nothing to do with this
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Overdriven on September 15, 2011, 08:47:15 pm
No you haven't lol

Haha when I was in duel servers for about 5 days straight when I first started playing my 2h  :P
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Dezilagel on September 15, 2011, 08:48:38 pm
Haha when I was in duel servers for about 5 days straight when I first started playing my 2h  :P

You still didn't get any kills

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Thomek on September 15, 2011, 08:53:45 pm
No matter how much I hate 8-9 athletics Nelo, I'm against this nerf. It's a bit unrealistic.. so?

The problem is rather that agi-archers seems to be the way to go atm. There is very few effective archer builds, and little flavor or difference between them.. As far as I understood the current situation..

If oberyn, who MOST PROBABLY sacrificed most of his athletics for riding, also wearing heavy-medium armor if I know him right, get's kited by an archer, that is only fair. Kiting in general is a very viable and clever tactic, and if an archer survives long enough that there are no one left who can chase him, that's just fine.
Archers don't have shields, archer's have crap melee defense options. Running is, and should be their best defense.

This suggestion will get a lot of +1 from str builds, cav and slow shielders.

(oh and if u let yourself be kited like an MMO mob, you are the retarded one.. I kite people myself all day long.)
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Oberyn on September 15, 2011, 09:11:46 pm
Yeah realism is a terrible reason for balance, I was just throwing it out there. This isn't really anything that bothers me personally, well it does, but not because I get kitted. Like I said above, I love people who try to jump out of the way when I go to lance them, it makes it very easy. And in any case even when dehorsed I have a shield, specifically because I hate archers so much.

And when you are pure melee and archers are kitting, how do you deal with them Thomek? There's really nothing else to do but run after them, dodge arrows and hope they misjudge a jump or stop running for a second. Unless of course you use a Ninja build that can outrun pretty much anything, even light armored archers.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Thomek on September 15, 2011, 09:21:51 pm
Against good archers I die or manage to close. xD but often I backstab them before they get a chance..

I won't lie, against good archers with high athletics the odds are on their side.. But I also carry some nasty mw snowflakes with 131 wpf and 6pt. They disrupt aim and running becomes a risky venture for them. Besides a headshot with snowflakes hurts so much they die.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Thucydides on September 15, 2011, 09:25:36 pm
buff armor vs range, ITS THE ONLY SOLUTION
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Bobthehero on September 15, 2011, 09:46:53 pm
I won't lie, against good archers with high athletics the odds are on their side.. But I also carry some nasty mw snowflakes with 131 wpf and 6pt. They disrupt aim and running becomes a risky venture for them. Besides a headshot with snowflakes hurts so much they die.

Throwing daggers, 1 PT 1 wpf, does wonder.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Bjord on September 15, 2011, 09:52:28 pm
cmp, to code:

[pseudocode] agent_player;draw_bow = true;input_key = space; agent_player: receive_dmg 9001. [/pseudocode]
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: MrShovelFace on September 15, 2011, 09:57:17 pm
If it's only for archers, then I don't care.

If it's for melee aswell, then as a ninja I must oppose this.

loading while jumping is just as realistic as swinging a melee weapons in the air and actually hurting someone other than yourself
Nerfing only archers because they found a way to adapt to the last nerf is not balancing, thats discrimination
All classes should be bound by the forces of gravity


bring the jump mechanic into what it was originally meant to be: a way to get over obstructions
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Dezilagel on September 15, 2011, 10:17:39 pm
loading while jumping is just as realistic as swinging a melee weapons in the air and actually hurting someone other than yourself
Nerfing only archers because they found a way to adapt to the last nerf is not balancing, thats discrimination
All classes should be bound by the forces of gravity


bring the jump mechanic into what it was originally meant to be: a way to get over obstructions

Well, for me as a melee player, that's just what it is...?

Game Balance Discussion bro, kiting as an archer is hideously effective as it gives the other person NO chance of winning.

Jumping as a melee player does little except making you look silly - besides if we removed jumpslash, then we wouldn't be able to do the awesome roof-drops  :P
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 15, 2011, 10:19:39 pm
Game Balance Discussion bro, kiting as an archer is hideously effective as it gives the other person NO chance of winning.
Bunny hop has nothing to do with kiting, it is a small thing that you can avoid if you give yourself another two meters to shoot.

Archers jump shot removal impacts their ability to kite as much as infantry jump slashing cavalry grants them the ability to dehorse people...

Remove both, don't pick and choose.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Bobthehero on September 15, 2011, 10:28:12 pm
Archer jump is usually used in melee I've archer litteraly out melee infantry by jumping around and shooting them its horrible, don't mind seeing that go.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 15, 2011, 10:30:02 pm
Archer jump is usually used in melee I've archer litteraly out melee infantry by jumping around and shooting them its horrible, don't mind seeing that go.

While I agree it is amazing in melee, I don't see why people keep mentioning it as part of kiting... :/
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Bobthehero on September 15, 2011, 10:30:40 pm
Some people jump kite, that wouldnt change much in that case, really.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: MrShovelFace on September 15, 2011, 10:36:21 pm
people just want archers nerfed
they dont care how it happens


I, as a melee player, will attest to the value of jumping in combat. Anyone who says jumping in combat is useless is either clueless, or saying so to preserve their jump tactics

I personally abuse the hell out of jumping on all my characters as it is the single best way to get out of range of a swing and kill the enemy with a longer weapon

Jumping should not be anything more than a way to clear obstacles
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Dezilagel on September 15, 2011, 10:49:13 pm
Bunny hop has nothing to do with kiting, it is a small thing that you can avoid if you give yourself another two meters to shoot.

It sure is part of it, I'll explain.

When kiting, you obv. need to turn ~180 degrees and aim every shot. If you jump-shoot, you can do this while still moving "forward" (away from the enemies) - which when I tested it turned out to be quite a big bonus since if you don't jumpshoot you'll have to spend time aiming standing still, made even trickier by your characters' sideways movement from turning.

Sure you can kite without jumpshooting - but it's much less effective, and if the devs decide that forcing archers to draw while standing still or similar is to harsh, then removing jumpshot might be a good solution.

Remove both, don't pick and choose.

Why?

Is that just your idea of "fairness"?



Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 15, 2011, 10:52:10 pm
Why?
Well, since a lot of the arguments are based on "It is realistic" then melee jump slashing has to go as well for there is no way you would be able to land as significant of a blow when doing a spinny weird thing.
 On the other hand, since some of the reasons was "it looks stupid" well so does jump slashing.
 Last but not least, if Archers jump shooting infantry is to be removed because people are having a difficult time taking out archers who use it, then we should remove the jump slash because cavalry have more of a difficult time taking out infantry due to it...

So there you go.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Overdriven on September 15, 2011, 10:56:46 pm
I like tears thinking.

It only makes sense.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 15, 2011, 11:00:08 pm
THEN YOU'LL SEE HUNDREDS UPON THOUSANDS OF CROSSBOWMEN!!!

you came late. we already have those crossbowmen numbers.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Dezilagel on September 15, 2011, 11:08:33 pm
Why?
Well, since a lot of the arguments are based on "It is realistic"

Mine aren't.

On the other hand, since some of the reasons was "it looks stupid" well so does jump slashing.

I never said that either.

Last but not least, if Archers jump shooting infantry is to be removed because people are having a difficult time taking out archers who use it, then we should remove the jump slash because cavalry have more of a difficult time taking out infantry due to it...

Ppl are not having a "difficult" time taking out archers who kite - people simply cannot catch them. Sounds like a faulty game mechanic to me. (Then you might bring HA into this - which imo are also borderline, but they deal pitiful damage in comparison, have more upkeep to pay and cannot camp roofs).

Sure, cavalry might argue that jumpslash makes it too difficult for them to take out inf, and if that is the case then fine, remove jumpslashes (to the side...?). If not - then keep it. But there's a diffrence:


Jumpslash gives an advantage to inf when fighting* cav, an advantage one could argue is too much, but it doesn't make them "cav-immune" like kiting/roofcamping makes archers inf/cav and inf immune. The latter case is something that simply should not exist - hence me vouching for it's removal.

Quote
So there you go.

*assumes both players are actually aware of eachother
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Bjord on September 15, 2011, 11:13:52 pm
Why?
Well, since a lot of the arguments are based on "It is realistic" then melee jump slashing has to go as well for there is no way you would be able to land as significant of a blow when doing a spinny weird thing.
 On the other hand, since some of the reasons was "it looks stupid" well so does jump slashing.
 Last but not least, if Archers jump shooting infantry is to be removed because people are having a difficult time taking out archers who use it, then we should remove the jump slash because cavalry have more of a difficult time taking out infantry due to it...

So there you go.

 
You should've used this argument rather than the other "remove them both just because"-argument.
 
Anyway, I more or less agree with your notion. However, as for melee jumpslashing an alternative could be to limit it strictly to overheads. Who's to say people didn't use gravity to aid their vertical striking power by jumping first?
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 15, 2011, 11:14:17 pm
Mine aren't.

I never said that either.
Good for you for never saying that. I was addressing all of the arguments that I have ever heard for getting rid of jump shots and jump slashes, as this is hardly an original thread and both of those subjects come up surprisingly often.

Ppl are not having a "difficult" time taking out archers who kite - people simply cannot catch them. Sounds like a faulty game mechanic to me.
Simply unable to catch them? Getting rid of the bunny ho means that it will take another 4 or 8 seconds to get killed by the guy who you are stubbornly chasing. You will still be unable to catch them.

Sure, cavalry might argue that jumpslash makes it too difficult for them to take out inf, and if that is the case then fine, remove jumpslashes (to the side...?). If not - then keep it. But there's a diffrence:


Jumpslash gives an advantage to inf when fighting* cav, an advantage one could argue is too much, but it doesn't make them "cav-immune" like kiting/roofcamping makes archers inf/cav and inf immune. The latter case is something that simply should not exist - hence me vouching for it's removal.

Well, removing bunny hops does nothing to change that archers are still immune to slower infantry.

And yeah, I am arguing that the advantage is too much for infantry to jump slash cavalry. Against a competent player with something like a Danish, it is more dangerous then fighting someone with a long spear (which is stupid).


 
You should've used this argument rather than the other "remove them both just because"-argument.
I never said just because. I was assuming that people would remember the 9000 other threads that have already discussed why jump slashes have to go. I was pointing out that while we are already going to get rid of the retarded jump shooting (that I want removed) we should also get rid of the equally retarded jump slashing.

I do agree though that overheads could stay.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Overdriven on September 15, 2011, 11:17:32 pm
Perhaps if inf want archers to stop kiting, slots should be readjusted so that archers can actually take a semi decent melee weapon rather than just a hammer (though the hammer can be effective in the right hands). Otherwise it's suicide for archers to just wait for inf to attack them. It's understandable why they kite. Hell, even if they couldn't shoot they would just run away anyway until you got bored.

Inf have some serious elitist issues where they think they should be able to tackle everyone and every class and beat them.

But anyway...wasn't this thread about jump shooting? Not kiting? There is a difference as tears pointed out. Stopping jump shooting would not stop kiting in any way.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 12:08:30 am

 
You should've used this argument rather than the other "remove them both just because"-argument.
 
Anyway, I more or less agree with your notion. However, as for melee jumpslashing an alternative could be to limit it strictly to overheads. Who's to say people didn't use gravity to aid their vertical striking power by jumping first?

Haven't you guys seen "Troy"?!?!? Jesus christ guys! We need to have Achilles jump-stabbing as well.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: MrShovelFace on September 16, 2011, 12:25:10 am
basically the arguement being made here is that archers should not be able to run away

I agree

Archers need to take it like a man when i see them and move in their general direction
Bow down before your two handed masters fucking archers

being a two hander DOES NOT entail killing everything in front of you
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Bobthehero on September 16, 2011, 12:26:48 am
^I approve.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Overdriven on September 16, 2011, 12:31:42 am
And in the meantime I shall make it my personal objective to horse bump over and over any 2h I see going towards a friendly archer :twisted:
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Bobthehero on September 16, 2011, 12:34:32 am
I am a one hander, have mercy :(
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: ThePoopy on September 16, 2011, 01:11:51 am
increase effect of arch wpf so u get same aim with 6 wm as u do with 7 wm now and decrease dmg on bow so u need 7 PD to dmg as much as u do with 6 PD now.
also increase PD rec on bow by 1
this would make 21/18 as 18/21 is now except -1 ath

change 2 steps (to 24/15) for more effect
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 01:54:17 am
basically the arguement being made here is that archers should not be able to run away

I agree

Archers need to take it like a man when i see them and move in their general direction
Bow down before your two handed masters fucking archers

being a two hander DOES NOT entail killing everything in front of you

I'm not a two hander, and you love beating up strawmen. Archers shouldn't be able to run away? Where in this entire thread has anyone said anything even remotely suggesting that?
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Lichen on September 16, 2011, 01:56:06 am
Jumping attacks with melee is suicide against anyone who isn't retarded or running away. And yes, that includes cav (at least with lance, probably more effective against 1h cav).
It is very effective against even lance cav if you know how to position yourself and time the swing properly.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Gurnisson on September 16, 2011, 02:07:29 am
And now it has happened. Hope archers get some sort of compensation for this massive nerf. :)
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Bjord on September 16, 2011, 02:26:36 am
I see the thread's been nicely derailed. :-)
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Kafein on September 16, 2011, 02:30:42 am
And in the meantime I shall make it my personal objective to horse bump over and over any 2h I see going towards a friendly archer :twisted:

Personally I concentrate on bumping archers fleeing from 2h. But those are two sides of the same coin.

Even lance cav is in trouble vs jumpslashing, because most horses lack the maneuver to correct their attack angle in time. This isn't true with Arab Warhorses, as usual.

Haven't you guys seen "Troy"?!?!? Jesus christ guys! We need to have Achilles jump-stabbing as well.

Let's base cRPG balance on the Troy movie, making throwing lances 99p damage and 300 accuracy :D
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 02:54:01 am
No dude, that was just Achilles. He's a haxxor.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Tennenoth on September 16, 2011, 03:04:11 am
Cavalry were a pain in my side before, now they're just practically unkillable.

Also, I now walk down hills like a penguin!  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Belatu on September 16, 2011, 03:06:19 am
I hate those fucking bunnies, I just want to kill them... smash them... bump them to death under the legs of my horse  :evil: :evil: :evil:
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Malaclypse on September 16, 2011, 03:07:58 am
Isn't the general tendency in archer builds to be more STR based than AGI? They don't run faster than infantry because they have higher athletics, but because most infantry wear like, at least, at LEAST 13 pounds of armor. I agree with taking out their draw animations while jumping- along with removing jumping while attacking at all, with any weapon. The ability to jump/platform should still be in the game, but it has no place in offensive combat.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 03:19:15 am
Isn't the general tendency in archer builds to be more STR based than AGI? They don't run faster than infantry because they have higher athletics, but because most infantry wear like, at least, at LEAST 13 pounds of armor.

Yup. 80% of the infantry I can outrun with just a mere 4 Athletics... Not as fast as my previous 7 ATHL which outran everyone, but still fast enough.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 04:31:49 am
NA servers, 4 ath you outrun 80% of the people, lul... 6-7 athletics and you're about as fast as everyone else on EU.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Thucydides on September 16, 2011, 04:54:59 am
NA servers, 4 ath you outrun 80% of the people, lul... 6-7 athletics and you're about as fast as everyone else on EU.

4 athletic is actually the norm i'd say, 4-5
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 05:20:32 am
NA servers, 4 ath you outrun 80% of the people, lul... 6-7 athletics and you're about as fast as everyone else on EU.

On EU I still outrun 70% of melee. Funny what happens when I only wear 5 lbs of armour and no melee weapon.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 05:34:09 am
You must play on some different EU servers than I do, then!
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 05:36:43 am
You must play on some different EU servers than I do, then!

I guess so, or I only get chased by the slow ones!
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 05:41:10 am
I guess so, or I only get chased by the slow ones!

Only the 'slower' ones would be stupid enough to chase the great Tears.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: _Sebastian_ on September 16, 2011, 10:58:42 am
Reload and shoot while jumping is removed now... go and see how it works.
I like it.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 16, 2011, 11:08:38 am
Reload and shoot while jumping is removed now... go and see how it works.
I like it.

wat?  :shock:
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on September 16, 2011, 11:22:27 am
Great news for you fucktards, it is removed!! *cheer*

Heyhey it's so nice that everyone get everything, only archers not -.-

People talking about realism and fairness etc in this game, but cav can still couch someone at full speed, without lancebreaking.
People can still jump and swing in heavy armour with a very heavy 2h weapon and they can still turn 360° midair before hitting.
People can still put their sword in the ground, turn around so fast that every normal person would fall to the ground and then hit you by rasing the sword, although it should be stuck in the ground now and then scratching you, which counts as piercedamage.
People can still bump a person and hit them with a sword, although they are now even in range anymore, if it were reallife, what everyone here seems to want.
People can still bump 10 people in a row, although a normal horse would take alot of damage or fall to the ground due to that.

I think I could go on with that for hours.....and you guys are talking about the game isn't fair or realistic, because an archer can jump and reload :rolleyes:

This community is getting more and more godawful day after day and the dev team seems to consist of a bunch of retards without own ideas....always listening to whining people and making everything for those who wine most.
Thanks for destroying this game, a bit more every patch or hotfix *thumbs up*
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 11:26:09 am
Great news for you fucktards, it is removed!! *cheer*

Heyhey it's so nice that everyone get everything, only archers not -.-

People talking about realism and fairness etc in this game, but cav can still couch someone at full speed, without lancebreaking.
People can still jump and swing in heavy armour with a very heavy 2h weapon and they can still turn 360° midair before hitting.
People can still put their sword in the ground, turn around so fast that every normal person would fall to the ground and then hit you by rasing the sword, although it should be stuck in the ground now and then scratching you, which counts as piercedamage.
People can still bump a person and hit them with a sword, although they are now even in range anymore, if it were reallife, what everyone here seems to want.
People can still bump 10 people in a row, although a normal horse would take alot of damage or fall to the ground due to that.

I think I could go on with that for hours.....and you guys are talking about the game isn't fair or realistic, because an archer can jump and reload :rolleyes:

This community is getting more and more godawful day after day and the dev team seems to consist of a bunch of retards without own ideas....always listening to whining people and making everything for those who wine most.
Thanks for destroying this game, a bit more every patch or hotfix *thumbs up*

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Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: v/onMega on September 16, 2011, 11:45:37 am
Xant is a fucking retard xD

Though I openly admit, your stupid/aggressive/whiny/biased comments or pics make laugh often, thanks.

It is Crpg Gisbert....
deal with it, or play something different :-).

Where is the ass rape mustafa promised on page 1 or 2”???
Am I too late :-(
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Bjord on September 16, 2011, 12:52:55 pm
Hah, they fixed it so soon?
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 12:54:13 pm
Hah, they fixed it so soon?
Surprised me as well.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on September 16, 2011, 12:55:01 pm
Hey Xant, thank you for proving what I wrote about the community :)
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Xant on September 16, 2011, 12:55:16 pm
Hey Xant, thank you for proving what I wrote about the community :)

I aim to please.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: _Sebastian_ on September 16, 2011, 01:26:10 pm
Very pointfull post Xant.  :wink:

What Gisbert said is true.
Crpg is going to be a melee heaven.

We are nerfed to much, because of these 13y old whinig melee-kids who got killed by an archer.
I agree, reload and shot while jumping isn't realistic and this nerf is fine.

But...
Dancing and bunny hopping tincans aren't realistic too.
If these guys would get a nerf too, then I'm lucky.
By the way; Cavalry schould loose HP, if they fall down from horses.

I think its time for an archey buff:
- lower the weight of the bows and quivers.
  No quiver with 24 arrows weigths about 5 kg, and no longbow weights 1,8 kg.
  (My 70-inch long and 90-pounds english warbow weights 600 grams and my quier with 24 medieval-arrows(each 50 grams) weights 1,5kg)
- Add a speedbonus for loomed bows like it was prepatch.
- Raise the time-window in which the bow is accurate.
- Raise the accuracy of the high tier bows a bit, especialy the longbow.
- Add a missile speed bonus for loomed arrows.(if it is possible)

Now ... the whine-kids can cry about my post :wink:



Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Laufknoten on September 16, 2011, 01:42:46 pm
Whiny archers whining about people being whiny about archery. Lol.

Now that they removed this BS, archery can maybe evolve into a respectable class.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 02:53:08 pm
Doubtfull, but hey, there's no such thing as respectable class. Except maybe peasants. Respectable = no danger to anyone XD.
The fact that it was implemented so fast leads me to believe it was already planned and in the works. I doubt my humble suggestion thread had that much of an effect tbh.

Incidentally Sebastian, I'd love to see you posting a video of yourself drawing a longbow while moving sideways and backwards. Considering the size of the weapon and the stance you have to take, I doubt it's possible. Then again I don't own a longbow, so maybe it is.

Anyways, like Gurnisson said, some sort of buff compensation wouldn't be out of place, but your suggestions are pretty ridiculous. No offense.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: cmp on September 16, 2011, 03:01:17 pm
The fact that it was implemented so fast leads me to believe it was already planned and in the works.

Nope. I am that fast†. 8-)




†only when nerfing ranged and cavalry
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Ozwan on September 16, 2011, 03:26:36 pm
I think its time for an archey buff:
- lower the weight of the bows and quivers.
  No quiver with 24 arrows weigths about 5 kg, and no longbow weights 1,8 kg.
  (My 70-inch long and 90-pounds english warbow weights 600 grams and my quier with 24 medieval-arrows(each 50 grams) weights 1,5kg)
- Add a speedbonus for loomed bows like it was prepatch.
- Raise the time-window in which the bow is accurate.
- Raise the accuracy of the high tier bows a bit, especialy the longbow.
- Add a missile speed bonus for loomed arrows.(if it is possible)

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Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Jambi on September 16, 2011, 03:31:19 pm
No problem, we will nerf cav to compensate. Thanks for bringing this up.

make is so no class can block / attack / draw / aim while/when jumping.

Give yourself a nerf devs.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Jambi on September 16, 2011, 03:33:34 pm
Very pointfull post Xant.  :wink:

What Gisbert said is true.
Crpg is going to be a melee heaven.

We are nerfed to much, because of these 13y old whinig melee-kids who got killed by an archer.
I agree, reload and shot while jumping isn't realistic and this nerf is fine.

But...
Dancing and bunny hopping tincans aren't realistic too.
If these guys would get a nerf too, then I'm lucky.
By the way; Cavalry schould loose HP, if they fall down from horses.

I think its time for an archey buff:
- lower the weight of the bows and quivers.
  No quiver with 24 arrows weigths about 5 kg, and no longbow weights 1,8 kg.
  (My 70-inch long and 90-pounds english warbow weights 600 grams and my quier with 24 medieval-arrows(each 50 grams) weights 1,5kg)
- Add a speedbonus for loomed bows like it was prepatch.
- Raise the time-window in which the bow is accurate.
- Raise the accuracy of the high tier bows a bit, especialy the longbow.
- Add a missile speed bonus for loomed arrows.(if it is possible)

Now ... the whine-kids can cry about my post :wink:


And reroll the arrows pickup how it was before.. its been broken for like ages now.

Ooh and nerf cav heirlooming too. They can actually spinstab from horseback, faster then i can draw my MW warbow
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Siboire on September 16, 2011, 03:36:04 pm
I am an archer and im somehow pleased by the jump shot removal. On the other side, jump-side-swings or jump-stabs should be removed for all melee weapons. Only keep jump-overhead to destroy ladders or kill with "roof drop". That would bring a lot more realism in the same way as the removal of jump-shots.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Tzar on September 16, 2011, 03:47:01 pm
I am an archer and im somehow pleased by the jump shot removal. On the other side, jump-side-swings or jump-stabs should be removed for all melee weapons. Only keep jump-overhead to destroy ladders or kill with "roof drop". That would bring a lot more realism in the same way as the removal of jump-shots.

Jump shots where not removed cause of realism.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 16, 2011, 03:49:04 pm
make is so no class can block / attack / draw / aim while/when jumping.

Give yourself a nerf devs.

i sense rage  :twisted:

anyway i did some rounds with the thrower... well i really did shit without the bunnyhop throw... i'll need to raise ATH on it..  :cry:
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Dezilagel on September 16, 2011, 03:52:37 pm
Jump shots where not removed cause of realism.

:!:

Why are people not getting this?
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 16, 2011, 03:57:04 pm
I am an archer and im somehow pleased by the jump shot removal. On the other side, jump-side-swings or jump-stabs should be removed for all melee weapons. Only keep jump-overhead to destroy ladders or kill with "roof drop". That would bring a lot more realism in the same way as the removal of jump-shots.

uhm... i have a ornamental greatsword 122cm long... i tried and it's not difficult to jump forward and thrust... and i'm not a old veteran medieval soldier.

and comparing jump-shoot with a jump-stab is silly. you can jump-shoot to kite all day long in iWin mode... but is not the same as jump-thrust or jump-swing.

consider facts about siege. when you'll jump from a ladder you will not be able to counter the defenders waiting to slash mid-air people.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Jambi on September 16, 2011, 03:59:31 pm
i sense rage  :twisted:

anyway i did some rounds with the thrower... well i really did shit without the bunnyhop throw... i'll need to raise ATH on it..  :cry:

Same here... i was thinking about getting 7 PD instead of 6. But now im going Agi all the way. 18/27 way too go. As most 2 handers still outrun me now anyways, and kill me in 1 shot.

Nope not raging.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 16, 2011, 04:12:11 pm
Same here... i was thinking about getting 7 PD instead of 6. But now im going Agi all the way. 18/27 way too go. As most 2 handers still outrun me now anyways, and kill me in 1 shot.

Nope not raging.

don't hurry imo... let's see how things will settle... maybe there will be a counterbalance about mid and heavy armor weight...

now for now, archers NEED protection from teammates. let's just play it a bit... feedback is a dish that must be server cold  :!:
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Joxer on September 16, 2011, 04:25:08 pm
uhm... i have a ornamental greatsword 122cm long... i tried and it's not difficult to jump forward and thrust... and i'm not a old veteran medieval soldier.

and comparing jump-shoot with a jump-stab is silly. you can jump-shoot to kite all day long in iWin mode... but is not the same as jump-thrust or jump-swing.

consider facts about siege. when you'll jump from a ladder you will not be able to counter the defenders waiting to slash mid-air people.

Trollollollooo try actually hitting something without killing yourself in the progress.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Jambi on September 16, 2011, 04:31:18 pm
don't hurry imo... let's see how things will settle... maybe there will be a counterbalance about mid and heavy armor weight...

now for now, archers NEED protection from teammates. let's just play it a bit... feedback is a dish that must be server cold  :!:

Thats like saying that 2handers need protection from teammates with shields. to protect them from archers

Ooh ooh what nonsense did i jsut said...

getting pwnd and then being a lobbyist crybaby to nerf archers, is way more effective
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Torben on September 16, 2011, 04:33:08 pm
stop all the nerfing. dude u have a horse,  just run them over...
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Adalwulf on September 16, 2011, 04:57:39 pm
Only seeing whining  here so I'll add to it :S

so how many agreed to this that just want archers nerfed again because they just want to see archery disappear or become utterly useless...some have said taht archers should stand and fight....with what my 0 slot hammer or hatchet....please. Get me a good melee weapon and I may decide to engage in melee instead of running away. How many times have I seen players just B-line straight to archers for easy kills and teammate infantry just standing around not helping. I notice many are saying it's not realistic? really? then add a stamina bar and see how many times you can swing your huge 2 handed weapon wearing mail for...I bet most of you complaining about archery is because you just can't dodge arrows.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 05:05:04 pm
"some have said taht archers should stand and fight"

I think the only person who said that was swalker, and swalker is a special breed. A hero. No one would expect all archers to be held to such high standards.
About a dozen other people have realized and posted that taking away jumpshotting doesn't take away archer's ability to kite, just makes it less deadly.
Same thing with realism, it's been said about a dozen times realism had nothing to do with it. It's even in the OP. Keep on punching those strawmen though.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 16, 2011, 05:27:54 pm
Thats like saying that 2handers need protection from teammates with shields.

uhm once i gone in a strat village battle with my 2h main with 0 shield skill. i couldn't let a finger out of a huscarl or a siege shield cover... really.

anyway i think was a WSE test afterall.. just to see how cmq can handle the enhanced scripting...

no reason to get upset now... there was no polls or anything to remove jumpshooting...
OR maybe oberyn wishes gets dealed so fast...  :P
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Adalwulf on September 16, 2011, 05:28:23 pm
Well I still see the jump slash....so I only see another archery nerf for the 10000th time.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Tennenoth on September 16, 2011, 05:45:58 pm
In my opinion this is a little rediculous and on the grounds of realism, I see none what so ever other than the fact that "in real medieval battle, archers would just run, while infantry broke through their ranks and engaged their persuers". With regards to cRPG, there are no said "line battles" so this wouldn't happen, everyone is pretty much a skirmisher in their own way and that's how things have always worked, 1 men armies running around hacking and slashing, say what you will about teamwork but when it comes down to it, you've got your best interests at heart and you play how you want to, i'm 100% sure that at some point you've been running with a couple of teammates on the server and they've got into a sticky situation and you've thought "screw this, i'm running" and done so! ^^

Back on track though, it's not realistic, now, i'm pretty sure if someone gave me a bow and a quiver full of arrows, I could jump and take an arrow out of said quiver on my back, knocking it, sure that would be a bit of a problem, but I wouldn't have my arms pinned to my side and if I already had the string pulled back, I wouldn't suddenly drop the arrow and be unable to do anything with it. This comes from someone who wouldn't be able to actually draw the bow due to injuries to his left shoulder and leg but would still have the required movement and co-ordination to pull an arrow from a quiver while moving in a verticle motion! :P

Next we have the falling, not sure what it is like now but last night when it was originally introduced around about 00:00 GMT +1 if you walked down an incline or fell off something, the same thing would happen, the G-Forces were too great for puny archers (or xbowmen to come to that) to lift their arms or they lose all hand-eye co-ordination. This is a little silly because I found multiple times that I would be running, (I had remapped my jump button away from space so I didn't have the risk of trying to jump to somewhere while drawing an arrow) and I would go down a slight dip in the floor and he would drop the arrow and start the animation again, it seems a little extreme to me! :S

I played like this for three hours, had a bit of a laugh with VRN/SeaRaiders/Templars on teamspeak where we (archers and xbowmen) ran at the enemy jumping like penguins but it was enough to test it against footmen. Against cavalry, with the new changes they're getting as a result of this silly change that will not have any effect on me running away from melee, turning and shooting, it just means that I will have to run a little further before I turn and shoot, think about it, i'm still faster than you, I can still knock an arrow while i'm running and I can still turn and shoot, you're still going to get the same arrows flung into your body and 9 times out of 10 I never jumped anyway, so it doesn't stop that! :)

The only other problem I can forsee with this is that cavalry will be able to pick on archers a lit harder than they used to. They'll be able to deftly bump the archers while they can't fight back because the slightest contact will stop you from reloading, melee isn't good for more archers so that's a problem there. I've already found with the one or two cav that were playing at half 2 this morning that even with 7 athletics, I wasn't quite quick enough to move myself out of the way of cav without jumping when they come charging at me, to actually have some form of defence against them and have a chance to shoot down their horse/the rider.

On a side note, Bunny hopping isn't a good term for this since it's not a series of quick sharp jumps, it's 1 jump.

I'm not sure what the full capabilities of WSE are but if possible I think it should still be applicable for archers to draw an arrow, not necessarily knock it nor draw the bow back while jumping and falling and if they already have the bow fully drawn back, they should be able to release the arrow because. So basically an interim point where the animation stops that it will go no further, the point where the archer has the arrow out, and the bow and arrow are down, I might post a screenshot later on.

TL;DR:

Archers and Crossbowmen jump like Penguins, had fun with that one just for the stupidity of it.
I have enough hand eye co-ordination to draw an arrow from a quiver at the very least, maybe not knock it, in real life despite injuries to my left arm and leg.
Archers will still outrun fat infantry, they will still draw arrows, they will still turn on the spot and they will still shoot you as accurately as before and you will still whine that we are kiting you, you just can't use "jump spin shoot" as the reason behind "why that archer was faster than me"
Cavalry will be a massive pain in the arse for archers since they won't be able to fight back.
Walking down a steep hill or even a few flights of stairs, you won't be able to knock an arrow. (Even walking across a field sometimes causes this because you're falling :S)
Comprimise between realism/whine with an animation stop after the archer has drawn the arrow and before the knock it to the bow and allow a fully drawn back bow to fire while in midair.
At the very least remove this from falling (I know this is possible from what was being said last night) because I would like to walk down a slightly bumpy road without tripping! :)
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Memento_Mori on September 16, 2011, 05:52:35 pm
Isn't the general tendency in archer builds to be more STR based than AGI? They don't run faster than infantry because they have higher athletics, but because most infantry wear like, at least, at LEAST 13 pounds of armor. I agree with taking out their draw animations while jumping- along with removing jumping while attacking at all, with any weapon. The ability to jump/platform should still be in the game, but it has no place in offensive combat.


so no jump + slash at same time, what about a jump, land, then slash? Would that still be cool?

I mean we don't have a double tap to dodge or lunge button so the bunny hop anti gravity jump is kinda our last resort 'barrel roll' lol.

Also, jumping and attacking is kind of the only way to destroy 'decent' ladders on siege maps... So defending in siege would be even more of a hassle... Kind of something to think about, it's not just jumping around slashing at enemies, it has it's place for other things.

derp someone already said thisss

I am an archer and im somehow pleased by the jump shot removal. On the other side, jump-side-swings or jump-stabs should be removed for all melee weapons. Only keep jump-overhead to destroy ladders or kill with "roof drop". That would bring a lot more realism in the same way as the removal of jump-shots.

I agree with Siboire.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Oberyn on September 16, 2011, 05:54:49 pm
Are you serious? Have you tried to attack archers as cavalry right now? Do you have a cavalry char Tenne? If so, give it a try.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 06:32:32 pm
Are you serious? Have you tried to attack archers as cavalry right now? Do you have a cavalry char Tenne? If so, give it a try.

Well with the right mindset and horse, a bump slasher can do it rather well, equal terms maybe, but a lancer is at a big disadvantage unless he ninjas the archer.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Bjord on September 16, 2011, 06:49:22 pm
Nope. I am that fast†. 8-)




†only when nerfing ranged and cavalry

Don't forget 2H's, you like nerfing that too.

Which is why in today's crpg, polearm is the most versatile weapon.  :lol:

EDIT:

Anyway, so far the last 3 pages have been archers complaining about this minor "nerf". I don't see the problem, why do you have to jump around like a fucking rabbit frog and at the same time be able to reload in order to be happy? This is not Super Mario, this is Warband. Just bunch up and stick together with melee, like you're supposed to. If you are on your own being chased by melee, you're doing it wrong(assuming you're not the last one alive).

Just adapt, play the class like you're supposed to. It's a support class, which is implying you need another class to support. Melee and Cavalry are the back bone of warfare and that's just how it is. If you want to be able to juggle 3 melee simultaneously then I'm sorry but this just isn't the game for you.

@Sebastian: There is no melee heaven, cut the melodrama. I strongly doubt this petite nerf (I can't even call it nerf without reacting to its irony)will have any substantial impact, if any at all.

I still can't believe this was made such a big deal out of.  :lol:
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Jambi on September 16, 2011, 06:55:42 pm
Are you serious? Have you tried to attack archers as cavalry right now? Do you have a cavalry char Tenne? If so, give it a try.

Stop crying you lobbying scrub

Have you ever played Archery on a skilled level ?

people cry for all sorts of stuff they want nerfed, while they havent got a single clue what there actually asking for.

But im happy for you, we got some biased devs. that will nerf everything for you, except for the class they play themselves.

This mod is starting to turn into something way beyond retarded. We sit thru so much BS nerfs and bugs, we waited months for strat... and it was still as abusable and broken as shit. And now were waiting for strat again.... wich prolly will be more bugged as ever.

Seriously chadz, you should consider finding a new team of devs.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 16, 2011, 07:24:33 pm
Anyway, so far the last 3 pages have been archers complaining about this minor "nerf".
I am all for it, I just also want those ludicrous jump spin stabs removed. Overheads are fine though.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Bobthehero on September 16, 2011, 07:34:46 pm
Considering the game has an awesome combat system I am all for a more melee focused mod :)
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: MrShovelFace on September 16, 2011, 07:36:44 pm
I say cav, in addition to inf and archers should not be able to block, attack, or knock people, over whilst jumping
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Siboire on September 16, 2011, 07:48:00 pm
I say cav, in addition to inf and archers should not be able to block, attack, or knock people, over whilst jumping

+1 but infantry needs to be able to do overheads while jumping to be able to destroy ladders on siege. Without jump-overheads, def on siege will be pretty much impossible with no way to destroy well placed ladders.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Vingnir the Wanderer on September 16, 2011, 08:28:53 pm
Off the top of my head idea:

Jump for melee= 50% dmg reduction  (fulcrum affect, from unstationary, unstable platform)

Jump for ranged= 50% accuracy reduction (-tracking/aiming affect from unstationary, unstable platform)

Could adjust this to a different percentage (for both) if this is to much/to little

Also and/or larger reduction to jump height/distance due to weight.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 16, 2011, 08:36:22 pm
Off the top of my head idea:

Jump for melee= 50% dmg reduction  (fulcrum affect, from unstationary, unstable platform)

Jump for ranged= 50% accuracy reduction (-tracking/aiming affect from unstationary, unstable platform)

Could adjust this to a different percentage (for both) if this is to much/to little

Also and/or larger reduction to jump height/distance due to weight.

seems nice but... archers DONT shoot while mid-air. they just nock and draw, shooting just a sec after they land... so will be useless.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Vingnir the Wanderer on September 16, 2011, 10:07:46 pm
Doh, yeah, your right... hmmm

Well the melee half makes sense lol

How bout no airborne knock and draw, and the melee adjustments...?
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on September 16, 2011, 10:52:48 pm
Same here... i was thinking about getting 7 PD instead of 6. But now im going Agi all the way. 18/27 way too go. As most 2 handers still outrun me now anyways, and kill me in 1 shot.

Nope not raging.


Good that I'm on my way to 33 with 21/24  7pd and 8 wm and only 2 athletics.......would like to run away but hey, doesn't work -.-  Now I can't even jump and reload...
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Apsod on September 17, 2011, 02:26:20 am
Archers just lost the last thing they had left.

This was a huge nerf and archers needs a little buff in something else to make up for the ability that they lost. Like a speed buff or damage buff.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Adalwulf on September 17, 2011, 04:15:00 am
I like how someone posted that last 3 pages have been archers bitching about a nerf and you know what.....we should. All we've been getting is nerfs and i'd love to see you not bitch if they changed your characters class...lemme guess you're a strength whore?

as above the jump shot is something archers had left....now might as well just stand still and die.

You guys want to nerf something nerf the retarded polearm stun. Awesome idea right?

Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Warcat on September 17, 2011, 06:16:39 am
Never say all, one of the patches recently was a buff...   or at least they lessened a previous nerf. That's kind of like getting a buff right? :rolleyes:

When I first saw the topic name though, I just assumed it would be about how people are always hopping around try to dodge ranged and cav, turning jumpshot is so rare and inconsequential there is no need to do anything about it. Just take the arrow for its 10 damage it does to you and chop the archer to pieces.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Oberyn on September 17, 2011, 10:56:49 am
Stop crying you lobbying scrub

Have you ever played Archery on a skilled level ?

people cry for all sorts of stuff they want nerfed, while they havent got a single clue what there actually asking for.

But im happy for you, we got some biased devs. that will nerf everything for you, except for the class they play themselves.

This mod is starting to turn into something way beyond retarded. We sit thru so much BS nerfs and bugs, we waited months for strat... and it was still as abusable and broken as shit. And now were waiting for strat again.... wich prolly will be more bugged as ever.

Seriously chadz, you should consider finding a new team of devs.

Ahah yes, I'm the whiner of course. The acceleration nerf is pretty bad, and I'm not whining about it, in fact I accepted it and addapted pretty well. I didn't throw a tantrum like a 5 year old and start insulting everyone cause bohoo my class got a nerf, even though it's a hundred times more of a nerf for cav than taking away jumpshot was for archers. But of course that's classic Jambi. You have 0 critical thinking skills, kind of like a woman on her period. What the fuck are you man, some rich, spoiled only kid in RL who always expects to get his way?  What the fuck gives you the right to talk this shit to the devs? You useless cunt, you've contributed absolutely nothing to the game, where do you get off talking as if you're a paying customer. So godamn idiotic. No one owes you anything you entitled piece of shit.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Belatu on September 17, 2011, 12:03:34 pm
just buy a shield already
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 17, 2011, 12:36:46 pm
in september 2010 i planned a 3 months morningstar crushthru build. i had funny times with that. the devs then removed morningstar blockcrush. then my level 39 gen 10 build was totally screwed. nobody gave me a respec. i dealt with it.





i simply left cRPG for 6 months  :wink:

so just a little fix as the jumpshoot is nothing compared to how i got screwed.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Apsod on September 17, 2011, 03:50:43 pm
Morning star got the bonus aginst shield as a small buff, but archers got nothing.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Xant on September 17, 2011, 03:58:50 pm
Morning star got the bonus aginst shield as a small buff, but archers got nothing.

Losing crushthrough on an unbalanced weapon and not being able to draw your bow in air are not quite comparable....
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Apsod on September 17, 2011, 04:17:15 pm
It is, weapon nerfs happen all the time, but this is a nerf that applies to all ranged. The accuracy of archery is terrible and the missile speed is terrible, so we have to come close to the melee people to hit anything at all. And from there on we have to jump and shoot when they get close.

So now what we do is either stay far away and hit 1/15 arrows or we move in and fire 5 arrows and get killed. Give us higher missile speed or higher accuracy so we can hit things from a disctance now that we can`t fight in close range.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Adalwulf on September 17, 2011, 05:23:54 pm
It is, weapon nerfs happen all the time, but this is a nerf that applies to all ranged. The accuracy of archery is terrible and the missile speed is terrible, so we have to come close to the melee people to hit anything at all. And from there on we have to jump and shoot when they get close.

So now what we do is either stay far away and hit 1/15 arrows or we move in and fire 5 arrows and get killed. Give us higher missile speed or higher accuracy so we can hit things from a disctance now that we can`t fight in close range.

Exactly...Now if I even fall from a small height itself it cancels my draw instantly...I fight up close to compensate for the lack of accuracy from a ranged weapon...not to mention I have 164 in wpf...
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 17, 2011, 05:33:41 pm
It is, weapon nerfs happen all the time, but this is a nerf that applies to all ranged. The accuracy of archery is terrible and the missile speed is terrible, so we have to come close to the melee people to hit anything at all. And from there on we have to jump and shoot when they get close.

So now what we do is either stay far away and hit 1/15 arrows or we move in and fire 5 arrows and get killed. Give us higher missile speed or higher accuracy so we can hit things from a disctance now that we can`t fight in close range.

accuracy wasn't reduced. pre-january dedicated archers usually had 190-220 wpf. (with 6-7 pd). in the oasis map, headshot from spawn to spawn at round start was a really common thing.

what a lot of nabs don't get, is that archery got big nerfs because strategus was DOMINATED by archers... to a point that every clan had half players with archer alts ONLY to compete in strat battles.

back there, fought along with nebun, sprut, archer_KMC, and a lot of other good archers. at the strat battle end, nebun never done less than 80-90 kills with 5-6 deaths, followd by archerKMC, me and others.

nerfs does not happens because devs want to piss off people.

that's why archery is SLIGHTLY less accurate than before... but if you still need that amount of accuracy:

(click to show/hide)

and before some crymoar start bitching about accuracy again, don't use the longbow (is not meant for that. is meant to shoot far and in the mass. is not meant to perfectly shave the balls of someone by shooting him under the groin at 500 meters.)
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Adalwulf on September 17, 2011, 05:38:33 pm
accuracy wasn't reduced. pre-january dedicated archers usually had 190-220 wpf. (with 6-7 pd). in the oasis map, headshot from spawn to spawn at round start was a really common thing.

what a lot of nabs don't get, is that archery got big nerfs because strategus was DOMINATED by archers... to a point that every clan had half players with archer alts ONLY to compete in strat battles.

back there, fought along with nebun, sprut, archer_KMC, and a lot of other good archers. at the strat battle end, nebun never done less than 80-90 kills with 5-6 deaths, followd by archerKMC, me and others.

nerfs does not happens because devs want to piss off people.

that's why archery is SLIGHTLY less accurate than before... but if you still need that amount of accuracy:

(click to show/hide)
Yes and have PD 5 and have to fire many arrows to kill 1 player while they can easilly 1 shot you. Makes sense to me and yes I use Rus Bow.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on September 17, 2011, 05:49:52 pm
Yes and have PD 5 and have to fire many arrows to kill 1 player while they can easilly 1 shot you. Makes sense to me and yes I use Rus Bow.

oh how i understand you... me too wants to 2hit kill people, use heavy armor while running like a ninja AND (ofc) swing my sword at lightspeed...

but happens we can't. builds are made to be a compromise between a strongpoint and another one. (damage versus accuracy for ranged, damage and health points versus mobility and profiency for melee).

if you want to 1shot stuff with sniper-rifle precision, i suggest you to try 1257AD in single player, native multiplayer or counterstrike.  :|
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Adalwulf on September 17, 2011, 05:55:46 pm
oh how i understand you... me too wants to 2hit kill people, use heavy armor while running like a ninja AND (ofc) swing my sword at lightspeed...

but happens we can't. builds are made to be a compromise between a strongpoint and another one. (damage versus accuracy for ranged, damage and health points versus mobility and profiency for melee).

if you want to 1shot stuff with sniper-rifle precision, i suggest you to try 1257AD in single player, native multiplayer or counterstrike.  :|

um crpg...it's called an arbalest.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Riddaren on July 12, 2012, 10:44:11 pm
Well done (idea got implemented). Thanks for that.
Title: Re: End the bunny hopping madness
Post by: Belatu on July 13, 2012, 01:46:02 am
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