Author Topic: End the bunny hopping madness  (Read 10474 times)

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Offline Jambi

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Re: End the bunny hopping madness
« Reply #120 on: September 16, 2011, 04:31:18 pm »
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don't hurry imo... let's see how things will settle... maybe there will be a counterbalance about mid and heavy armor weight...

now for now, archers NEED protection from teammates. let's just play it a bit... feedback is a dish that must be server cold  :!:

Thats like saying that 2handers need protection from teammates with shields. to protect them from archers

Ooh ooh what nonsense did i jsut said...

getting pwnd and then being a lobbyist crybaby to nerf archers, is way more effective
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Offline Torben

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Re: End the bunny hopping madness
« Reply #121 on: September 16, 2011, 04:33:08 pm »
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stop all the nerfing. dude u have a horse,  just run them over...
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Offline Adalwulf

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Re: End the bunny hopping madness
« Reply #122 on: September 16, 2011, 04:57:39 pm »
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Only seeing whining  here so I'll add to it :S

so how many agreed to this that just want archers nerfed again because they just want to see archery disappear or become utterly useless...some have said taht archers should stand and fight....with what my 0 slot hammer or hatchet....please. Get me a good melee weapon and I may decide to engage in melee instead of running away. How many times have I seen players just B-line straight to archers for easy kills and teammate infantry just standing around not helping. I notice many are saying it's not realistic? really? then add a stamina bar and see how many times you can swing your huge 2 handed weapon wearing mail for...I bet most of you complaining about archery is because you just can't dodge arrows.

Offline Oberyn

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Re: End the bunny hopping madness
« Reply #123 on: September 16, 2011, 05:05:04 pm »
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"some have said taht archers should stand and fight"

I think the only person who said that was swalker, and swalker is a special breed. A hero. No one would expect all archers to be held to such high standards.
About a dozen other people have realized and posted that taking away jumpshotting doesn't take away archer's ability to kite, just makes it less deadly.
Same thing with realism, it's been said about a dozen times realism had nothing to do with it. It's even in the OP. Keep on punching those strawmen though.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 05:06:36 pm by Oberyn »
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Offline Corrado_Decimo

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Re: End the bunny hopping madness
« Reply #124 on: September 16, 2011, 05:27:54 pm »
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Thats like saying that 2handers need protection from teammates with shields.

uhm once i gone in a strat village battle with my 2h main with 0 shield skill. i couldn't let a finger out of a huscarl or a siege shield cover... really.

anyway i think was a WSE test afterall.. just to see how cmq can handle the enhanced scripting...

no reason to get upset now... there was no polls or anything to remove jumpshooting...
OR maybe oberyn wishes gets dealed so fast...  :P

Offline Adalwulf

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Re: End the bunny hopping madness
« Reply #125 on: September 16, 2011, 05:28:23 pm »
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Well I still see the jump slash....so I only see another archery nerf for the 10000th time.

Offline Tennenoth

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Re: End the bunny hopping madness
« Reply #126 on: September 16, 2011, 05:45:58 pm »
+1
In my opinion this is a little rediculous and on the grounds of realism, I see none what so ever other than the fact that "in real medieval battle, archers would just run, while infantry broke through their ranks and engaged their persuers". With regards to cRPG, there are no said "line battles" so this wouldn't happen, everyone is pretty much a skirmisher in their own way and that's how things have always worked, 1 men armies running around hacking and slashing, say what you will about teamwork but when it comes down to it, you've got your best interests at heart and you play how you want to, i'm 100% sure that at some point you've been running with a couple of teammates on the server and they've got into a sticky situation and you've thought "screw this, i'm running" and done so! ^^

Back on track though, it's not realistic, now, i'm pretty sure if someone gave me a bow and a quiver full of arrows, I could jump and take an arrow out of said quiver on my back, knocking it, sure that would be a bit of a problem, but I wouldn't have my arms pinned to my side and if I already had the string pulled back, I wouldn't suddenly drop the arrow and be unable to do anything with it. This comes from someone who wouldn't be able to actually draw the bow due to injuries to his left shoulder and leg but would still have the required movement and co-ordination to pull an arrow from a quiver while moving in a verticle motion! :P

Next we have the falling, not sure what it is like now but last night when it was originally introduced around about 00:00 GMT +1 if you walked down an incline or fell off something, the same thing would happen, the G-Forces were too great for puny archers (or xbowmen to come to that) to lift their arms or they lose all hand-eye co-ordination. This is a little silly because I found multiple times that I would be running, (I had remapped my jump button away from space so I didn't have the risk of trying to jump to somewhere while drawing an arrow) and I would go down a slight dip in the floor and he would drop the arrow and start the animation again, it seems a little extreme to me! :S

I played like this for three hours, had a bit of a laugh with VRN/SeaRaiders/Templars on teamspeak where we (archers and xbowmen) ran at the enemy jumping like penguins but it was enough to test it against footmen. Against cavalry, with the new changes they're getting as a result of this silly change that will not have any effect on me running away from melee, turning and shooting, it just means that I will have to run a little further before I turn and shoot, think about it, i'm still faster than you, I can still knock an arrow while i'm running and I can still turn and shoot, you're still going to get the same arrows flung into your body and 9 times out of 10 I never jumped anyway, so it doesn't stop that! :)

The only other problem I can forsee with this is that cavalry will be able to pick on archers a lit harder than they used to. They'll be able to deftly bump the archers while they can't fight back because the slightest contact will stop you from reloading, melee isn't good for more archers so that's a problem there. I've already found with the one or two cav that were playing at half 2 this morning that even with 7 athletics, I wasn't quite quick enough to move myself out of the way of cav without jumping when they come charging at me, to actually have some form of defence against them and have a chance to shoot down their horse/the rider.

On a side note, Bunny hopping isn't a good term for this since it's not a series of quick sharp jumps, it's 1 jump.

I'm not sure what the full capabilities of WSE are but if possible I think it should still be applicable for archers to draw an arrow, not necessarily knock it nor draw the bow back while jumping and falling and if they already have the bow fully drawn back, they should be able to release the arrow because. So basically an interim point where the animation stops that it will go no further, the point where the archer has the arrow out, and the bow and arrow are down, I might post a screenshot later on.

TL;DR:

Archers and Crossbowmen jump like Penguins, had fun with that one just for the stupidity of it.
I have enough hand eye co-ordination to draw an arrow from a quiver at the very least, maybe not knock it, in real life despite injuries to my left arm and leg.
Archers will still outrun fat infantry, they will still draw arrows, they will still turn on the spot and they will still shoot you as accurately as before and you will still whine that we are kiting you, you just can't use "jump spin shoot" as the reason behind "why that archer was faster than me"
Cavalry will be a massive pain in the arse for archers since they won't be able to fight back.
Walking down a steep hill or even a few flights of stairs, you won't be able to knock an arrow. (Even walking across a field sometimes causes this because you're falling :S)
Comprimise between realism/whine with an animation stop after the archer has drawn the arrow and before the knock it to the bow and allow a fully drawn back bow to fire while in midair.
At the very least remove this from falling (I know this is possible from what was being said last night) because I would like to walk down a slightly bumpy road without tripping! :)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 05:47:10 pm by Tennenoth »
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Offline Memento_Mori

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Re: End the bunny hopping madness
« Reply #127 on: September 16, 2011, 05:52:35 pm »
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Isn't the general tendency in archer builds to be more STR based than AGI? They don't run faster than infantry because they have higher athletics, but because most infantry wear like, at least, at LEAST 13 pounds of armor. I agree with taking out their draw animations while jumping- along with removing jumping while attacking at all, with any weapon. The ability to jump/platform should still be in the game, but it has no place in offensive combat.


so no jump + slash at same time, what about a jump, land, then slash? Would that still be cool?

I mean we don't have a double tap to dodge or lunge button so the bunny hop anti gravity jump is kinda our last resort 'barrel roll' lol.

Also, jumping and attacking is kind of the only way to destroy 'decent' ladders on siege maps... So defending in siege would be even more of a hassle... Kind of something to think about, it's not just jumping around slashing at enemies, it has it's place for other things.

derp someone already said thisss

I am an archer and im somehow pleased by the jump shot removal. On the other side, jump-side-swings or jump-stabs should be removed for all melee weapons. Only keep jump-overhead to destroy ladders or kill with "roof drop". That would bring a lot more realism in the same way as the removal of jump-shots.

I agree with Siboire.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 06:09:48 pm by Memento_Mori »

Offline Oberyn

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Re: End the bunny hopping madness
« Reply #128 on: September 16, 2011, 05:54:49 pm »
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Are you serious? Have you tried to attack archers as cavalry right now? Do you have a cavalry char Tenne? If so, give it a try.
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Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: End the bunny hopping madness
« Reply #129 on: September 16, 2011, 06:32:32 pm »
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Are you serious? Have you tried to attack archers as cavalry right now? Do you have a cavalry char Tenne? If so, give it a try.

Well with the right mindset and horse, a bump slasher can do it rather well, equal terms maybe, but a lancer is at a big disadvantage unless he ninjas the archer.
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Offline Bjord

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Re: End the bunny hopping madness
« Reply #130 on: September 16, 2011, 06:49:22 pm »
+1
Nope. I am that fast†. 8-)




†only when nerfing ranged and cavalry

Don't forget 2H's, you like nerfing that too.

Which is why in today's crpg, polearm is the most versatile weapon.  :lol:

EDIT:

Anyway, so far the last 3 pages have been archers complaining about this minor "nerf". I don't see the problem, why do you have to jump around like a fucking rabbit frog and at the same time be able to reload in order to be happy? This is not Super Mario, this is Warband. Just bunch up and stick together with melee, like you're supposed to. If you are on your own being chased by melee, you're doing it wrong(assuming you're not the last one alive).

Just adapt, play the class like you're supposed to. It's a support class, which is implying you need another class to support. Melee and Cavalry are the back bone of warfare and that's just how it is. If you want to be able to juggle 3 melee simultaneously then I'm sorry but this just isn't the game for you.

@Sebastian: There is no melee heaven, cut the melodrama. I strongly doubt this petite nerf (I can't even call it nerf without reacting to its irony)will have any substantial impact, if any at all.

I still can't believe this was made such a big deal out of.  :lol:
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 07:00:56 pm by Bjord »
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Offline Jambi

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Re: End the bunny hopping madness
« Reply #131 on: September 16, 2011, 06:55:42 pm »
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Are you serious? Have you tried to attack archers as cavalry right now? Do you have a cavalry char Tenne? If so, give it a try.

Stop crying you lobbying scrub

Have you ever played Archery on a skilled level ?

people cry for all sorts of stuff they want nerfed, while they havent got a single clue what there actually asking for.

But im happy for you, we got some biased devs. that will nerf everything for you, except for the class they play themselves.

This mod is starting to turn into something way beyond retarded. We sit thru so much BS nerfs and bugs, we waited months for strat... and it was still as abusable and broken as shit. And now were waiting for strat again.... wich prolly will be more bugged as ever.

Seriously chadz, you should consider finding a new team of devs.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 07:15:05 pm by Jambi »
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Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: End the bunny hopping madness
« Reply #132 on: September 16, 2011, 07:24:33 pm »
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Anyway, so far the last 3 pages have been archers complaining about this minor "nerf".
I am all for it, I just also want those ludicrous jump spin stabs removed. Overheads are fine though.
I'm not normal and I don't pretend so, my approach is pretty much a bomb crescendo.
Death is a fun way to pass the time though, several little bullets moving in staccato.
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Offline Bobthehero

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Re: End the bunny hopping madness
« Reply #133 on: September 16, 2011, 07:34:46 pm »
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Considering the game has an awesome combat system I am all for a more melee focused mod :)
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Offline MrShovelFace

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Re: End the bunny hopping madness
« Reply #134 on: September 16, 2011, 07:36:44 pm »
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I say cav, in addition to inf and archers should not be able to block, attack, or knock people, over whilst jumping
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