End the bunny hopping madness

[Dezilagel]

loading while jumping is just as realistic as swinging a melee weapons in the air and actually hurting someone other than yourself
Nerfing only archers because they found a way to adapt to the last nerf is not balancing, thats discrimination
All classes should be bound by the forces of gravity


bring the jump mechanic into what it was originally meant to be: a way to get over obstructions

Well, for me as a melee player, that's just what it is...?

Game Balance Discussion bro, kiting as an archer is hideously effective as it gives the other person NO chance of winning.

Jumping as a melee player does little except making you look silly - besides if we removed jumpslash, then we wouldn't be able to do the awesome roof-drops 

[Tears of Destiny]

Game Balance Discussion bro, kiting as an archer is hideously effective as it gives the other person NO chance of winning.

Bunny hop has nothing to do with kiting, it is a small thing that you can avoid if you give yourself another two meters to shoot.

Archers jump shot removal impacts their ability to kite as much as infantry jump slashing cavalry grants them the ability to dehorse people...

Remove both, don't pick and choose.

[Bobthehero]

Archer jump is usually used in melee I've archer litteraly out melee infantry by jumping around and shooting them its horrible, don't mind seeing that go.

[Tears of Destiny]

Archer jump is usually used in melee I've archer litteraly out melee infantry by jumping around and shooting them its horrible, don't mind seeing that go.

While I agree it is amazing in melee, I don't see why people keep mentioning it as part of kiting... :/

[Bobthehero]

Some people jump kite, that wouldnt change much in that case, really.

[MrShovelFace]

people just want archers nerfed
they dont care how it happens


I, as a melee player, will attest to the value of jumping in combat. Anyone who says jumping in combat is useless is either clueless, or saying so to preserve their jump tactics

I personally abuse the hell out of jumping on all my characters as it is the single best way to get out of range of a swing and kill the enemy with a longer weapon

Jumping should not be anything more than a way to clear obstacles

[Dezilagel]

Bunny hop has nothing to do with kiting, it is a small thing that you can avoid if you give yourself another two meters to shoot.

It sure is part of it, I'll explain.

When kiting, you obv. need to turn ~180 degrees and aim every shot. If you jump-shoot, you can do this while still moving "forward" (away from the enemies) - which when I tested it turned out to be quite a big bonus since if you don't jumpshoot you'll have to spend time aiming standing still, made even trickier by your characters' sideways movement from turning.

Sure you can kite without jumpshooting - but it's much less effective, and if the devs decide that forcing archers to draw while standing still or similar is to harsh, then removing jumpshot might be a good solution.

Remove both, don't pick and choose.

Why?

Is that just your idea of "fairness"?

[Tears of Destiny]

Why?
Well, since a lot of the arguments are based on "It is realistic" then melee jump slashing has to go as well for there is no way you would be able to land as significant of a blow when doing a spinny weird thing.
 On the other hand, since some of the reasons was "it looks stupid" well so does jump slashing.
 Last but not least, if Archers jump shooting infantry is to be removed because people are having a difficult time taking out archers who use it, then we should remove the jump slash because cavalry have more of a difficult time taking out infantry due to it...

So there you go.

[Overdriven]

I like tears thinking.

It only makes sense.

[Corrado_Decimo]

THEN YOU'LL SEE HUNDREDS UPON THOUSANDS OF CROSSBOWMEN!!!

you came late. we already have those crossbowmen numbers.

[Dezilagel]

Why?
Well, since a lot of the arguments are based on "It is realistic"

Mine aren't.

On the other hand, since some of the reasons was "it looks stupid" well so does jump slashing.

I never said that either.

Last but not least, if Archers jump shooting infantry is to be removed because people are having a difficult time taking out archers who use it, then we should remove the jump slash because cavalry have more of a difficult time taking out infantry due to it...

Ppl are not having a "difficult" time taking out archers who kite - people simply cannot catch them. Sounds like a faulty game mechanic to me. (Then you might bring HA into this - which imo are also borderline, but they deal pitiful damage in comparison, have more upkeep to pay and cannot camp roofs).

Sure, cavalry might argue that jumpslash makes it too difficult for them to take out inf, and if that is the case then fine, remove jumpslashes (to the side...?). If not - then keep it. But there's a diffrence:


Jumpslash gives an advantage to inf when fighting* cav, an advantage one could argue is too much, but it doesn't make them "cav-immune" like kiting/roofcamping makes archers inf/cav and inf immune. The latter case is something that simply should not exist - hence me vouching for it's removal.

So there you go.

*assumes both players are actually aware of eachother

[Bjord]

Why?
Well, since a lot of the arguments are based on "It is realistic" then melee jump slashing has to go as well for there is no way you would be able to land as significant of a blow when doing a spinny weird thing.
 On the other hand, since some of the reasons was "it looks stupid" well so does jump slashing.
 Last but not least, if Archers jump shooting infantry is to be removed because people are having a difficult time taking out archers who use it, then we should remove the jump slash because cavalry have more of a difficult time taking out infantry due to it...

So there you go.

 
You should've used this argument rather than the other "remove them both just because"-argument.
 
Anyway, I more or less agree with your notion. However, as for melee jumpslashing an alternative could be to limit it strictly to overheads. Who's to say people didn't use gravity to aid their vertical striking power by jumping first?

[Tears of Destiny]

Mine aren't.

I never said that either.

Good for you for never saying that. I was addressing all of the arguments that I have ever heard for getting rid of jump shots and jump slashes, as this is hardly an original thread and both of those subjects come up surprisingly often.

Ppl are not having a "difficult" time taking out archers who kite - people simply cannot catch them. Sounds like a faulty game mechanic to me.

Simply unable to catch them? Getting rid of the bunny ho means that it will take another 4 or 8 seconds to get killed by the guy who you are stubbornly chasing. You will still be unable to catch them.

Sure, cavalry might argue that jumpslash makes it too difficult for them to take out inf, and if that is the case then fine, remove jumpslashes (to the side...?). If not - then keep it. But there's a diffrence:


Jumpslash gives an advantage to inf when fighting* cav, an advantage one could argue is too much, but it doesn't make them "cav-immune" like kiting/roofcamping makes archers inf/cav and inf immune. The latter case is something that simply should not exist - hence me vouching for it's removal.

Well, removing bunny hops does nothing to change that archers are still immune to slower infantry.

And yeah, I am arguing that the advantage is too much for infantry to jump slash cavalry. Against a competent player with something like a Danish, it is more dangerous then fighting someone with a long spear (which is stupid).

 
You should've used this argument rather than the other "remove them both just because"-argument.

I never said just because. I was assuming that people would remember the 9000 other threads that have already discussed why jump slashes have to go. I was pointing out that while we are already going to get rid of the retarded jump shooting (that I want removed) we should also get rid of the equally retarded jump slashing.

I do agree though that overheads could stay.

[Overdriven]

Perhaps if inf want archers to stop kiting, slots should be readjusted so that archers can actually take a semi decent melee weapon rather than just a hammer (though the hammer can be effective in the right hands). Otherwise it's suicide for archers to just wait for inf to attack them. It's understandable why they kite. Hell, even if they couldn't shoot they would just run away anyway until you got bored.

Inf have some serious elitist issues where they think they should be able to tackle everyone and every class and beat them.

But anyway...wasn't this thread about jump shooting? Not kiting? There is a difference as tears pointed out. Stopping jump shooting would not stop kiting in any way.

[Xant]

 
You should've used this argument rather than the other "remove them both just because"-argument.
 
Anyway, I more or less agree with your notion. However, as for melee jumpslashing an alternative could be to limit it strictly to overheads. Who's to say people didn't use gravity to aid their vertical striking power by jumping first?

Haven't you guys seen "Troy"?!?!? Jesus christ guys! We need to have Achilles jump-stabbing as well.