When are you finally add some sort of punishment to TA and TK ?

[Malaclypse]

Automated kick after x amount of TK's. This is possible, have seen it in use on some native servers. Allows for accidents, punishes intent.

[Apsod]

I've played cRPG since the very beginning, and for those of you who came only recently, I can say there was a severe punishment for TKs before. 1 TK would cost you about 3-4 hours of grinding...AND I AM NOT KIDDING.

I remeber those days, but from what I remember you lost the amount of gold you would earn when your team won a good round. Ca 70-100 gold.

[Topsnus]

I remeber those days, but from what I remember you lost the amount of gold you would earn when your team won a good round. Ca 70-100 gold.

you also lost a percentage of XP. It was a very small percentages, but to people who had played for hundereds of hours, it came out to a very large amount.

[Kung Fu Jesus]

I would be in favor of some sort of incremental punishment, as long as it was either to my gold or xp. Not in favor of kicks or reflective damage. It would definitely keep some people from just wildly swinging or shooting into a melee and punish those that do it often.

[DaFrog]

First i can definitely not agree with people who think than the currently system with no personal punishment is fine. The current system is by far the worst i have ever seen in any rpg game with friendly fire. People who TK or TA are most of the time not punished but the worst thing about the current system : it is TK friendly. As it work now the current system do not discourage team killing at all. In fact the current system is supporting team killing/TA and team killer/TA.

Admin are currently useless to do anything most of the time as you have no proof than someone have TA or TK you intentionally. If you do not run FRAPS at all time you will just not have any proof. Pretty easy to TA or TK someone and just run away like nothing happens admin can do nothing about it and are doing nothing about it.

But that's not the worst part of the current system. The worst is than "not intentionally" TK or TA are not personally punished and this do not make sense at all. TA and TK are personal business and it do not matter that much if it was intentionally or not it should be punished. Why ? Because without punishment people will not care about it and this kind of system will be supporting TK and TA.

I have seen today an archer trying to kill an enemy who was fighting with 3 guys from the same team as him, did i have to tell you how it end ? One of the 3 guys was TKed and by the way that's considered as not intentionally team kill...

That's exactly what's the current system is  about why would someone not try to kill an enemy even if there is a high risk than one of is mate will be wounded or team killed ? Who care ? This archer was unlucky and killed a mate instead of just wound one of his mate which cost him...nothing. But that's not only related to archer obviously and this apply to every situation.

The point is even if there is a high risk to wound one of his mate people as it is now will take the risk to wound or TK there mate to kill an enemy as there is no punishment anyway for it.

Secondly as i say previously it dosen't matter if TK/TA was intentionally or not, it should be punished. The only differences should be than intentionally TK/TA should be a banable offense. There is currently a lot of players who are not even able to do a whole map without TK or TA one of there mate. Why the hell are we supposed to support player who are not able to do even a map without TK/TA someone ?!

The most important thing in a teamplay game with friendly fire is to learn to avoid TK and TA. But in this game as it is now the amount of TK and TA in each round is completely amazing. Today i have even seen some player from the higher part of the scoreboard doing like 3 TK in the same round...People should learn to play without TK and TA. It's not like it's that hard to avoid TK and TA, this game is not that much fast and as  long as you pay attention to you environment and anticipate just a little bit it's easy as hell to avoid TK/TA especially as you can stop your swing at any time.

So i don't know if EXP/GOLD penalty is the best punishment to deal with TK/TA but it would be obviously better than no punishment at all as it is now. By the way just pick up the  kind of punishment you want and add it into the cRPG. Looks like the old one was pretty fine by the way.

At the end i do not see any valid reason for people to do not agree to add some sort of punishment for team killing and team attack because as long as they play carefully it's easy as hell to avoid it. Only usual team killer/wounder can disagree to get some punishment for it.

[Blondin]

Here is a selection of threads talking about the subject, and it is not exhaustive, there are plenty of thread like this (this does not tell you that you should not have post) but you see more response and thoughts, well, I think if the admins had wanted to do something that would be done.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2794.0.html

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1362.0.html

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,7717.0.html

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1324.0.html

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2565.0.html

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1388.0.html

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2246.0.html

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,4144.0.html

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,969.0.html

Imo, Tk/Ta are not a big deal, and are already punished by removing tickets and chances to win for the team ( i don't speak of grieffers which are dealt in a different manner with ban thread and admin actions).
Also, "collateral damage" have always been part of the war, that's may be one of reason armies have uniforms, battles of the past show that sometimes there can be mistake like a cavalry charge in the wrong regiment, artillery fire on your own position, and archer volley in the back of your charging infantry (even now with technology, we saw American Helicopter shooting at British tank in Afghanistan, even on reporter, oh no, sorry there it was on purpose!).

We can always find a system to punish tker, but every system can be abused and it only brings new problems
I remember the old system, and tbh, it doesn't change anything, there were as many Tk as now, even if at that time losing 100 gold + xp was loosing almost the entire gain of the round (around 100 and 200 gold)

[MrShine]

First i can definitely not agree with people who think than the currently system with no personal punishment is fine. The current system is by far the worst i have ever seen in any rpg game with friendly fire. People who TK or TA are most of the time not punished but the worst thing about the current system : it is TK friendly. As it work now the current system do not discourage team killing at all. In fact the current system is supporting team killing/TA and team killer/TA.

...

But that's not the worst part of the current system. The worst is than "not intentionally" TK or TA are not personally punished and this do not make sense at all. TA and TK are personal business and it do not matter that much if it was intentionally or not it should be punished. Why ? Because without punishment people will not care about it and this kind of system will be supporting TK and TA.

...

That's exactly what's the current system is  about why would someone not try to kill an enemy even if there is a high risk than one of is mate will be wounded or team killed ? Who care ? This archer was unlucky and killed a mate instead of just wound one of his mate which cost him...nothing. But that's not only related to archer obviously and this apply to every situation.

etc

I quoted sections of your post.  You seem to believe that the current system makes no sense and no punishment exists.  Here is why I disagree:

1) Currently punishment exists in the way of public embarrassment and loss of respect if someone is clearly negligent and tks/tas recklessly.  It tells other people "hey - this guy isn't that great of a player" or "this guy has no awareness" or "this guy wouldn't work well in a team/clan".  Being ostracized from a gaming community that depends on teamwork is a pretty harsh punishment if you ask me.  People remember.

Case in point: I've heard many times from players that "BlackRose is known for tking".  Yet if you go to nacrpg.net only 2 BlackRose are in the top 125 for tks, none of which are in the top 25.  The belief that BlackRose tks at a significantly higher rate is untrue, however the "taint" from players no longer in the clan sticks with the community.

2) As I said before, there is always an inherent punishment for TKing (unless it's the end of round) which is you are hurting your team's chances to win by making yourself outnumbered.  The more you tk the harder it will be to win, which means less gold and xp through multipliers.

3) Putting a money/xp value on TKs would actually probably cause players to care less than they do now.  Frankly, I have plenty of gold, and I'm sure many others have even more.  It then becomes "oops I tk'd.  Oh well I paid some gold and now I'm absolved".  It cheapens the crime, and people care much less about gold in game then they do their image, I can guarantee you that.

[Grimm3r]

That is unnecessary. If a player intentionally tks they will receive a kick or a ban. To be frank, 250 gold is nothing to a lot of people and so it would only work to further agitate new players into quitting CRPG because they cannot gain money with all their accidental team, hits.

[Vibe]

If there needs to be a TA/TK punishment system (I personally believe there is no real need for it) I would just redirect the damage back to attacker, like on some native servers.

[Overdriven]

Your talking about punishing unintentional tks as well?

That's just plain dumb. We already have a vote kick option that, if you post a reason, and it's obvious the person is tking, then they will get kicked. Or admins will do it. There's no need to put in a system that will punish purely accidental tks, because, lets face it, we get a lot of them. The majority of people apologise straight away. Anyone who does it to me always apologises, as do I. Even if I put 1 arrow in someone I apologise, even when it doesn't kill them.

You also can't compare this game to other MP rpgs. What other rpgs are in reality a first person medieval warfare game with even a similar system to Warband/cRPG. I can't think of any.

If someone is obviously trolling ect, then the current system means they will get kicked. If you can post proof of it, they will serve a ban. I think that's a fair system. Any in built system will quickly lead to protest by archers, HA, 2h, polearm users, hell, anyone who is liable to accidentally tk.

Be polite. Apologise. Accept an apology and be gentlemen. Even if it's a stupid mistake. Otherwise, intentional tkers will get kicked/banned.

As MrShine says, cRPG is a relatively small community. If you get banned on a server, you only have limited options as to where to go after that. Either you play in an empty server on your own, you join another server and play properly or you get banned from all of them. He also makes a good point that putting a gold value on it cheapens the crime. A small gaming community like cRPG can put enough pressure on trolls to make sure they don't hang around long.

[Grok]

I'd agree that it's just part of the game, but I think the "shame" or mild consequences could easily go a bit further with some additional stat tracking.  Specifically, the raw team damage caused should be tracked and pinned to each toon just as TKs are now.  I'd also REALLY like to know who is in fact damaging me on my team.

Clearly, 90% or more of the TKs in the game are accidental though I'm sure MANY are the direct result of players overreaching and trying to get a kill to the detriment of an engaged teammate.  Of course, I also know the vast majority of team damage comes from my two-handed brothers and sisters...I think 90% of my deaths are due to their inaccurate spam and I go into and come out of a good portion of my fights with significant team wounds.

[Varyag]

TBH I am affraid of fighting opponents if there are "friendly" 2handers around cos I always get teamwounded by them. I prefer to let the 2hander fight and die first, so I can come in and kill the enemy player safely.

[tankmen]

team wounds happen, you tend to realize which players are bad at fighting next to teammates, leave em be, go fight else where. Also if you add exp/gold loss to stop what? those guys that tk on purpose? they know what they are doing, and the funny thing is, their mind set is not giving a fuck atm, gold and exp loss? only affects the accidents.

[Armpit_Sweat]

How about - every time you hit a friendly, your weapon drops on the ground?

[The_Bloody_Nine]

I said it already a couple of times:

I absolutely don't understand why you guys have so much trouble with tkers. I play this game since nearly two years, and have no trouble at all. Except in 1 single case there was allways a way to talk about it. But if you categorical need a punishment, I don't care.