Author Topic: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?  (Read 26040 times)

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Offline Cheap_Shot

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #240 on: July 12, 2011, 07:23:55 pm »
0
I didn't get to try throwing before the hot fix.
 :?

On the up side Mounted Thrower is playable again now.
 :D

That is nice to hear, I noticed that as well. Seems kinda pointless though if you don't get the speed bonus for riding the horse and throwing, but I guess it's kinda like an expensive form of higher athletics. Also probably fun.
I'll throw even when the weapons are gone. I can always throw punches and throw up.

Offline Beans

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #241 on: July 12, 2011, 07:58:57 pm »
-1
With the increase in repair costs I feel like the change to 1 slot is only a marginal improvement and that throwing weapons should probably have another 1 per stack except throwing lances maybe. And maybe some damage increase too.

I'm not even a thrower but they are a joke now after the hotfixes.

Offline Seawied

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #242 on: July 12, 2011, 08:03:49 pm »
+1
I disagree. They feel viable again.

The change was a good fix.
So with PT >10 stones become simple too effective
:lol:

Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #243 on: July 12, 2011, 08:05:35 pm »
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With the increase in repair costs I feel like the change to 1 slot is only a marginal improvement and that throwing weapons should probably have another 1 per stack except throwing lances maybe. And maybe some damage increase too.

I'm not even a thrower but they are a joke now after the hotfixes.
:rolleyes:
I disagree. They feel viable again.

The change was a good fix.
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Offline Cheap_Shot

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #244 on: July 12, 2011, 08:18:19 pm »
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I want to like the changes, but they are setting up throwing to be a sidearm for hybrids, except you cant hybrid with them. Any armor reduces the wpf, every level of power throw reduces the wpf. The damage for throwing HAS to be good otherwise there's no point in being a thrower. This and the archery nerf, I have no idea why everyone isn't a crossbower/pole hybrid.
I'll throw even when the weapons are gone. I can always throw punches and throw up.

Offline Cheap_Shot

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #245 on: July 12, 2011, 08:38:13 pm »
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Ah I see. It wasn't throwing damage that was nerfed, it was just a change in the way damage was handled. Now people who wear armor are invincible and range proof pretty much.
I'll throw even when the weapons are gone. I can always throw punches and throw up.

Offline Ujin

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #246 on: July 12, 2011, 08:43:17 pm »
+1
I like the new throwing so far. Even though i hate it  every time my head catches some random crap, of course.

Offline Cheap_Shot

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #247 on: July 12, 2011, 08:48:46 pm »
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Throwing is fine again. But now armor is overpowered so it doesn't matter. It's always something :(
I'll throw even when the weapons are gone. I can always throw punches and throw up.

Offline Paul

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #248 on: July 12, 2011, 09:33:03 pm »
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Well, thanks to the extra_penetration flags we can effectively create 2 soak/reduce parameter sets. That's what we done, we gave all bows and crossbows those flags, making them more or less behave like it was prepatch against armor while melee and throwing uses the new parameters(less soak/more reduce). One reason for that was to let tincans keep their soak protection against weak bows.(I know, archery dead. We have an eye on it. Crossbows got their nerf too. Ask Dave, mention precision.)

The decision to let throwing behave like melee instead of the other ranged was a last minute one, but I think it was right. One grief throwing caused in earlier patches was the occational (body) one shotting done even against heavy armor with throwing lances. This more rare now. It could be rather frustrating because of the rather high agility of throwing in close combat along with the accuracy buff.

A pseudo, made up on the spot justification could be that crossbows and bows shoot projectiles with rather high speed and thus high kinetic energy(1/2*m*v^2) concentrated on a small area(tip) while having a comperatively low weight and thus impulse(m*v). So if strong enough they should perform well at overcoming armor(lower reduce). However the low weight/impulse leads also to the fact that an arrow that is not strong enough to penetrate doesn't bother the target much(high soak). Thrown weapons on the other hand are rather slow in the air but have a high weight(high impulse). So even a throwing weapon that does not manage to penetrate the armor has a better chance of causing a bruise or putting the target at least off balance(less soak). In return penetrating the armor is not as easy(higher reduce).

Of course this argumentation is full of holes(role of weight in armor penetration) and does not very well explain why throwing stars and daggers should bounce less now(180 wpf grief STF throwers getting rolled as you read this) but I like the outcome that the strongly accu-buffed high end throwing weapons are not that good at overcoming heavy armor as before. Personally I'd give a seperate soak/reduce/friction parameter set to every weapon but we are very limited with Warband. At least without WSE.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 09:36:27 pm by Paul »

Offline AlbaTiger

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #249 on: July 12, 2011, 10:40:04 pm »
0
That is nice to hear, I noticed that as well. Seems kinda pointless though if you don't get the speed bonus for riding the horse and throwing, but I guess it's kinda like an expensive form of higher athletics. Also probably fun.

Yeah Javalry was always always a horse hunting build, and though it would be nice if there was a speed bonus I don't think I'm often throwing in the direction my horse is going anyway.

Offline Cheap_Shot

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #250 on: July 13, 2011, 02:13:37 am »
+1
It's not the reasoning since you guys mean well and put thought into it I think, it's the results that's the problem.

(click to show/hide)

I currently am doing 158 throwing, 6 powerthrow. There are 8 axes in that person. A ninth one followed, before I was chopped down in two hits. I literally can't beat plate wearers, which isn't a problem with skill since every one of those axes hit, it's a problem with balance. That dude should have been dead, and he agreed and took that screen shot himself. I've been trying to cope and go for lower PT builds instead of 10 PT since that's what you guys want, and I love a more balanced throwing build, having equal athletics and PT is great and much more fun, but now it's just an exercise in frustration as I watch all my increased ammo go into one or two armored people. I can't kill anyone but peasants and even then it sometimes takes two. :(
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 02:15:31 am by Cheap_Shot »
I'll throw even when the weapons are gone. I can always throw punches and throw up.

Offline Cyclopsided

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #251 on: July 13, 2011, 02:30:21 am »
+1
That is just throwing axes. Jarids/throwing spears drop plate guys to dead really efficiently.

Throwing axe are cut, they are awesome at downing horses and medium and under armor...
Also, I have declared myself #1 NA hybrid thrower
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Offline Rumblood

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #252 on: July 13, 2011, 02:43:46 am »
+1
That is just throwing axes. Jarids/throwing spears drop plate guys to dead really efficiently.

Throwing axe are cut, they are awesome at downing horses and medium and under armor...

Pretty asanine statement to make looking at a guy with 9 axes sticking out of him....
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Offline Cyclopsided

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #253 on: July 13, 2011, 02:47:53 am »
+1
Pretty asanine statement to make looking at a guy with 9 axes sticking out of him....
What? I made a valid statement about damage type in reference to the armor being used. Guaranteed dead with 4 throwing spears/jarids.

What is pictured is Full heaviest armor in the game on a heavy strength build, with probably heirloomed armor. Hitting it with cut damage which specifically doesn't do much to that compared to pierce or blunt. I've always said strength builds and armor are OP, but I'm not getting into that. Armor got a nice reworking recently and I'm glad for it. less glances :D

Look, my point is that has nothing to do with throwing. That is a different issue.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 02:49:15 am by Marathon »
Also, I have declared myself #1 NA hybrid thrower
Formerly known as Marathon.
As an NA admin, I am the most laid back and concerned with the ~fun of the game~ above all other factors. I've also been super inactive since Summer 2012. University takes most of my time, but I still find some time to play when i can.

Offline Rumblood

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Re: Throwing... could you possibly make it any more useless?
« Reply #254 on: July 13, 2011, 03:00:53 am »
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I don't care how you "cut" it. 9 axes in any armor should be dead, period.
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