Author Topic: Am I racist? 2.0  (Read 176662 times)

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Offline Westwood

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Re: Am I racist? 2.0
« Reply #1305 on: May 11, 2018, 06:33:07 pm »
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secession is, in some sense, l i t e r a l l y an affront to G-d and a flippant disregard for his will.
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Offline Angantyr

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Re: Am I racist? 2.0
« Reply #1306 on: May 11, 2018, 06:41:44 pm »
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« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 08:12:39 pm by Angantyr »

Offline Golem

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Re: Am I racist? 2.0
« Reply #1307 on: May 11, 2018, 07:00:09 pm »
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Hah, nice !
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Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: Am I racist? 2.0
« Reply #1308 on: May 11, 2018, 07:15:53 pm »
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They should have picked their own cotton.
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Offline Xant

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Re: Am I racist? 2.0
« Reply #1309 on: May 11, 2018, 09:35:39 pm »
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Is there any actual data on just how big an impact slavery had on the US economy/progress?
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Offline IR_Kuoin

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Re: Am I racist? 2.0
« Reply #1310 on: May 11, 2018, 11:28:21 pm »
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Is there any actual data on just how big an impact slavery had on the US economy/progress?

I highly doubt it actually had any impact, you had to be wealthy to use slave labor and if they didn't have any slaves there would have been enough young folk etc. to actually do the work they did just for pay instead of food and shelter. Only result would probably just be cheaper export / in-nation trade due to lower cost of employment. Just niglets trying to make up for the fact that their ancestors didn't accomplish anything of worth back in Africa.
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Offline Grytviken

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Re: Am I racist? 2.0
« Reply #1311 on: May 11, 2018, 11:37:55 pm »
+1
Is there any actual data on just how big an impact slavery had on the US economy/progress?

http://mshistorynow.mdah.state.ms.us/articles/291/cotton-and-the-civil-war

The South fueled England's industrial revolution so they were very wealthy from cotton exports. They also relied heavily on manufactured goods which they could import cheap from Europe. This free trade system the South had with Europe angered capitalist bankers in the North by making the market more competitive and eventually led to war. Slavery drove this whole enterprise even after the slave trade was forbid in 1808, it just increased the demand for slaves that were already living in the US.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 12:30:45 am by Grytviken »

Offline Leshma

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Re: Am I racist? 2.0
« Reply #1312 on: May 12, 2018, 12:21:34 am »
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Is there any actual data on just how big an impact slavery had on the US economy/progress?

It had huge impact on south. I've found some sources that claim Egypt had a play in American Civil War because they started producing cotton and European countries started buying cotton from them. If you remove free labor that American south had at its disposal they were in bad position on the market. They needed slaves to survive on the global market.

As Sherman said, northern countries were much more technologically advanced which is the main reason why they won the Civil War. South had cotton plantations and not much else. Southerners, lazy as always.

Offline Xant

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Re: Am I racist? 2.0
« Reply #1313 on: May 12, 2018, 02:07:33 am »
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That doesn't really say anything about whether slavery had an impact in transforming US into a global superpower, or making it wealthy, since that only happened like 60 years after slavery was abolished.
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Offline Golem

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Re: Am I racist? 2.0
« Reply #1314 on: May 12, 2018, 02:30:53 am »
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Last Wednesday you mean.
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Offline Sandersson Jankins

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Re: Am I racist? 2.0
« Reply #1315 on: May 12, 2018, 06:36:51 am »
+1
Technically speaking, wouldn't that be the correct/legal way to treat them, until the war was over?

certainly, as prior to the conclusion of the conflict and the 13th amendment et al., blacks didn't have any rights to speak of. not too many people keep in mind the fugitive slave laws which bound the North as well as the South in the antebellum period. if a slave escaped to a "free state" like Pennsylvania, and a local white individual is made aware of this, he is compelled to participate in any pursuit and capture of the slave under threat of legal penalty. abolitionist minorities aside, most folk really did think of blacks as property. i suppose i'm just trying to combat the myth of the morally-superior yankee fighting for freedom

also, everyone remember: the first wave of seccession (south carolina, alabama, georgia, florida, mississippi) was certainly and undoubtedly brought on primarily by the slavery issue. specifically, the perceived threat of abolition of chattel slavery- a tyrant Lincoln indeed was but he was nothing like the abolitionist he was painted as throughout the south.

the second wave of seccession was brought on by Lincoln's raising of an army to, presumably, invade the south. no standing armies back then, so mustering together an army is loosely like mobilizing one's forces all along the border in modern terms. texas, arkansas, north carolina, tennessee, virginia, lousiana seceded over threat of invasion. if no northern army were mustered together, i imagine that the Deep South may well have seceded and stood alone as south carolina did for a month or two.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 11:24:30 am by Sandersson Jankins »
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Offline Grytviken

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Re: Am I racist? 2.0
« Reply #1316 on: May 12, 2018, 07:53:52 am »
+1
That doesn't really say anything about whether slavery had an impact in transforming US into a global superpower, or making it wealthy, since that only happened like 60 years after slavery was abolished.

Without cotton from the South there wouldn't have been an industrial revolution in the US or Britain, so you could say it had a direct impact. The textile industry drove the revolution and alot of inventions revolved around improving the manufacturing.

I would say that the US was on par with England during the 1860's in terms of military power and naval power. The mostly wooden Royal Navy wouldn't have been able to contend with the 57 Ironclads the US Navy had at the time and the British army was much much smaller.


Offline Sandersson Jankins

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Re: Am I racist? 2.0
« Reply #1317 on: May 12, 2018, 08:58:02 am »
+1
Without cotton from the South there wouldn't have been an industrial revolution in the US or Britain, so you could say it had a direct impact. The textile industry drove the revolution and alot of inventions revolved around improving the manufacturing.

I would say that the US was on par with England during the 1860's in terms of military power and naval power. The mostly wooden Royal Navy wouldn't have been able to contend with the 57 Ironclads the US Navy had at the time and the British army was much much smaller.

its kinda fucking crazy that prior to the boys slapping a bunch of metal to the old Merrimack and dubbing it the Virginia, nobody put that seemingly pretty simple concept to use. lmao, enjoy all your navies being made obscelescent overnight by a bunch of hick americans killing eachother
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Offline Tibes

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Re: Am I racist? 2.0
« Reply #1318 on: May 12, 2018, 11:29:06 am »
+2
its kinda fucking crazy that prior to the boys slapping a bunch of metal to the old Merrimack and dubbing it the Virginia, nobody put that seemingly pretty simple concept to use. lmao, enjoy all your navies being made obscelescent overnight by a bunch of hick americans killing eachother

To be fair the ironclads were mad coal hoggers that needed constant supply of it. When you are the kings navy, you just cant reach the Americas with those.

Offline Angantyr

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Re: Am I racist? 2.0
« Reply #1319 on: May 12, 2018, 02:48:19 pm »
+3
There's a tendency in many historical accounts to confuse the cotton industry with the slave economy. Of course the cotton plantations would've run with cheap white workers had the slave trade not become a lucrative trade in its own right, using poor laborers from Europe through indentured servitude as had been done on the sugar and tobacco plantations throughout most of the 1600s. Just because the cotton industry relied on slavery doesn't mean it had to.